| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) 21:52 - Dec 14 with 12561 views | onehunglow |
Come on it’s Christmas …
1. Louis
2.Ali
3.Marciano
4.Lennox Lewis
5.Jack Johnson
6 Dempsey
7.Larry Holmes
8.Mike Tyson
9.Joe Frazier
10. Evander Holyfield [Post edited 14 Dec 2023 21:54]
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:07 - Dec 16 with 1057 views | Togg |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 19:27 - Dec 16 by shingle |
Beat Holyfield twice and apart from one split decision defeat defeat never came close to losing and he was fighting 18 stone guys not 13st guys like past so called greats were, and yes i also believe he avoided Lewis for what ever reasons but i have Lewis in my top 4 instead of Bowe so them not fighting is not relevant to me in that regard. |
Fair play good answer. He struggled with Galota in the low blow contest but as they say styles make fights . I think dodging Lewis in my mind doesn't get him top 10. | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 21:32 - Dec 16 with 1022 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 22:10 - Dec 15 by trampie |
The story is Marciano had knocked out his previous 6 opponents, if so how many bouts had Marciano had before that ? also I'm sure I seen it that it was only Dr Jack's 4th ever bout and that he didn't tell his parents and didn't continue as he was only helping out his branch of the military.
The story here is how Marciano who became an unbeaten boxing legend was unable to beat a Welsh sporting hero in a boxing match when the Welshman's sport was rugby. |
Well the story I was told was, Marciano was a punchy S.O.B who often got into brawls and maybe he did knock out 6 guys but they were brawls not proper boxing matches, 2 guys put up against each other.
It's also not correct to say he was unbeaten, his amateur record was won 8, lost 4. He only started boxing training seriously in 1948.
Therefore, if marciano only took up boxing properly after the war, he couldn't have had 6 boxing matches before the brawl in the Adelphi. In that brawl he knocked out an Aussie soldier,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/3100929.stm | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 21:35 - Dec 16 with 1014 views | howenjack |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 19:31 - Dec 16 by onehunglow |
Dempsey beat Willard when four stone lighter |
One of the biggest heavyweights of all time Primo "satchell feet " Carnera couldnt knock the skin off a rice pudding .
As Dempsey once said "big guys come down to my size when I hit them." | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 21:55 - Dec 16 with 998 views | trampie |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 21:32 - Dec 16 by SullutaCreturned |
Well the story I was told was, Marciano was a punchy S.O.B who often got into brawls and maybe he did knock out 6 guys but they were brawls not proper boxing matches, 2 guys put up against each other.
It's also not correct to say he was unbeaten, his amateur record was won 8, lost 4. He only started boxing training seriously in 1948.
Therefore, if marciano only took up boxing properly after the war, he couldn't have had 6 boxing matches before the brawl in the Adelphi. In that brawl he knocked out an Aussie soldier,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_west/3100929.stm |
Rocky started boxing in the forces he won the 1946 Amateur Armed Forces boxing tournament, he had his first pro fight in 1947.
Inter services matches etc during the war were proper bouts in a ring with gloves but unofficial, almost certainly no judges just a ref.
Rocky took up boxing to avoid having to work in the military kitchens, so how did that work if he was not training and having fights, he would not have got away with ducking his duties if he was not boxing training. |  |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 22:55 - Dec 16 with 960 views | howenjack |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 21:55 - Dec 16 by trampie |
Rocky started boxing in the forces he won the 1946 Amateur Armed Forces boxing tournament, he had his first pro fight in 1947.
Inter services matches etc during the war were proper bouts in a ring with gloves but unofficial, almost certainly no judges just a ref.
Rocky took up boxing to avoid having to work in the military kitchens, so how did that work if he was not training and having fights, he would not have got away with ducking his duties if he was not boxing training. |
The war ended in 1945 Rocky went back to The States and demobbed in 1946 He took up boxing training but was also keen on baseball and joined a baseball club . However he was finally cut from the squad and then returned to boxing turning professional in 1947.
While he had been stationed in Swansea he had been sentenced to training in the Gym at high street next to the station so he would burn off his aggression in the gym not in the bars . The magistrate had done this because it wasn't the first time he had been arrested for brawling and his superior in the army pleaded with the magistrate not to jail him
because they needed all the drivers they had to ferry equipment in lorries ;it was nothing to do with avoiding working in kitchens . He was a rough house street brawler who had his first taste of the sweet science in a Swansea gym. He then returned to the states and
the rest is history. What official records do you have of his fights ( Boxing fights ) in Wales because I would be interested to know about them . | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 07:53 - Dec 17 with 901 views | trampie |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 22:55 - Dec 16 by howenjack |
The war ended in 1945 Rocky went back to The States and demobbed in 1946 He took up boxing training but was also keen on baseball and joined a baseball club . However he was finally cut from the squad and then returned to boxing turning professional in 1947.
While he had been stationed in Swansea he had been sentenced to training in the Gym at high street next to the station so he would burn off his aggression in the gym not in the bars . The magistrate had done this because it wasn't the first time he had been arrested for brawling and his superior in the army pleaded with the magistrate not to jail him
because they needed all the drivers they had to ferry equipment in lorries ;it was nothing to do with avoiding working in kitchens . He was a rough house street brawler who had his first taste of the sweet science in a Swansea gym. He then returned to the states and
the rest is history. What official records do you have of his fights ( Boxing fights ) in Wales because I would be interested to know about them . |
I don't think there are official records of fights for Rocky or others in the services wartime, for some reason I'm unable to copy and paste 'drive' not working on my phone, I seen the kitchen story last night and I'm sure that was somebody that knew him or him being interviewed, I've seen it again this morning a different article saying about the kitchen and a bit more detail about Rocky's early fights, trying out for the Olympics and the name of a guy that beat him in the amateurs. [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 8:20]
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 09:31 - Dec 17 with 880 views | onehunglow |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 07:53 - Dec 17 by trampie |
I don't think there are official records of fights for Rocky or others in the services wartime, for some reason I'm unable to copy and paste 'drive' not working on my phone, I seen the kitchen story last night and I'm sure that was somebody that knew him or him being interviewed, I've seen it again this morning a different article saying about the kitchen and a bit more detail about Rocky's early fights, trying out for the Olympics and the name of a guy that beat him in the amateurs. [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 8:20]
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No matter what,Marciano is still a legendary name and always will be . | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 10:02 - Dec 17 with 856 views | trampie |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 09:31 - Dec 17 by onehunglow |
No matter what,Marciano is still a legendary name and always will be . |
You would have liked the story I seen last night (I think it was the one that mentioned the kitchen but not sure as I seen a few stories about Marciano), i think it was somebody interviewing him on one of his visits to Swansea (many visits I think), pictures of old Swansea, Mumbles, Gower, he asked if the Mumbles railway was still going and there was pics of beaches down there that the GI went, Shops, pubs, cafes in Swansea, i think it said the he used to get cockles from Swansea market, i was more interested in any mention of his boxing back then but knew you would like the human story and old pics of Swansea and surrounds, he seem to love the area, he would walk around dressed normally and nobody would bother him, locals probably thought he was nothing special and that loads of rugby boys could give him a beating, lol, like Dr Jack. | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 14:21 - Dec 17 with 817 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 21:55 - Dec 16 by trampie |
Rocky started boxing in the forces he won the 1946 Amateur Armed Forces boxing tournament, he had his first pro fight in 1947.
Inter services matches etc during the war were proper bouts in a ring with gloves but unofficial, almost certainly no judges just a ref.
Rocky took up boxing to avoid having to work in the military kitchens, so how did that work if he was not training and having fights, he would not have got away with ducking his duties if he was not boxing training. |
Marciano took up trainng at Wilde's gym to avoid any other punishment, I can find nthing that says he started taking boxing seriously until 3 years after the Wind street altercation. He eneterd the forces boxing cometitin whilst awaiting discharge, that is on record. There are no records of any proper boxing matches before 1945, not that I can find.
Marciano was drafted into the US army in March 1943 so where did he have time to get 6 proper boxing matches in before this 1943 brawl in Wind street? Inter services fights would still be properly organised and six fights in close succession seems highly unlikely in the build up to D-Day. He would be spending every day training then fighting for 9 months and I think WW2 and his army duties would easily have been more important, don't you?
You presented a versin of the story you want to be true but it's hardly likely. After all, where did his 6 opponenets come from? Would they be shipping people back from the front lines for this? | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 14:27 - Dec 17 with 815 views | onehunglow |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 10:02 - Dec 17 by trampie |
You would have liked the story I seen last night (I think it was the one that mentioned the kitchen but not sure as I seen a few stories about Marciano), i think it was somebody interviewing him on one of his visits to Swansea (many visits I think), pictures of old Swansea, Mumbles, Gower, he asked if the Mumbles railway was still going and there was pics of beaches down there that the GI went, Shops, pubs, cafes in Swansea, i think it said the he used to get cockles from Swansea market, i was more interested in any mention of his boxing back then but knew you would like the human story and old pics of Swansea and surrounds, he seem to love the area, he would walk around dressed normally and nobody would bother him, locals probably thought he was nothing special and that loads of rugby boys could give him a beating, lol, like Dr Jack. |
Yea,I aware of his time in Swansea | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 14:29 - Dec 17 with 812 views | onehunglow |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 14:21 - Dec 17 by SullutaCreturned |
Marciano took up trainng at Wilde's gym to avoid any other punishment, I can find nthing that says he started taking boxing seriously until 3 years after the Wind street altercation. He eneterd the forces boxing cometitin whilst awaiting discharge, that is on record. There are no records of any proper boxing matches before 1945, not that I can find.
Marciano was drafted into the US army in March 1943 so where did he have time to get 6 proper boxing matches in before this 1943 brawl in Wind street? Inter services fights would still be properly organised and six fights in close succession seems highly unlikely in the build up to D-Day. He would be spending every day training then fighting for 9 months and I think WW2 and his army duties would easily have been more important, don't you?
You presented a versin of the story you want to be true but it's hardly likely. After all, where did his 6 opponenets come from? Would they be shipping people back from the front lines for this? |
Rocky’ s time in south Wales has nothing to do with his boxing career as we and the boxing world know it.
Truly a legend and his name is enough | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 16:25 - Dec 17 with 799 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 10:02 - Dec 17 by trampie |
You would have liked the story I seen last night (I think it was the one that mentioned the kitchen but not sure as I seen a few stories about Marciano), i think it was somebody interviewing him on one of his visits to Swansea (many visits I think), pictures of old Swansea, Mumbles, Gower, he asked if the Mumbles railway was still going and there was pics of beaches down there that the GI went, Shops, pubs, cafes in Swansea, i think it said the he used to get cockles from Swansea market, i was more interested in any mention of his boxing back then but knew you would like the human story and old pics of Swansea and surrounds, he seem to love the area, he would walk around dressed normally and nobody would bother him, locals probably thought he was nothing special and that loads of rugby boys could give him a beating, lol, like Dr Jack. |
Here it is, and as per the interview, it was his brawl in Wind street that "propelled him into boxing" as stated by the man himself.
https://sites.google.com/site/usmilitaryinsouthwales/rocky-marciano-an-american- | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 17:01 - Dec 17 with 791 views | Togg |
That's a great piece. As Swansea Jacks we should be proud of Ricky Marciano's Swansea past. One of the best! | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 17:09 - Dec 17 with 787 views | onehunglow |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 17:01 - Dec 17 by Togg |
That's a great piece. As Swansea Jacks we should be proud of Ricky Marciano's Swansea past. One of the best! |
It is and it’s why he still has legendary status.
His record is often derided ,not unlike that of Calzhaghe but his record won’t be broken,ever..
Imagine him boxing now and how big a box office he would be .
It’s why GOATS in heavyweight history normally include
Dempsey…first real superstar who transcended the sport
Louis …because of the longevity of his reign
Ali…because of his stardust personality .
And Tyson Fury is touted by some ! | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 18:11 - Dec 17 with 774 views | shingle |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 19:31 - Dec 16 by onehunglow |
Dempsey beat Willard when four stone lighter |
LOL Tony bellow or even the top light heavys around today would have easily beat Willard the guy has no names on his record and was pretty poor to say the least. | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 18:37 - Dec 17 with 752 views | trampie |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 17:09 - Dec 17 by onehunglow |
It is and it’s why he still has legendary status.
His record is often derided ,not unlike that of Calzhaghe but his record won’t be broken,ever..
Imagine him boxing now and how big a box office he would be .
It’s why GOATS in heavyweight history normally include
Dempsey…first real superstar who transcended the sport
Louis …because of the longevity of his reign
Ali…because of his stardust personality .
And Tyson Fury is touted by some ! |
Calzaghe unlike Marciano had a top amateur record, Calzaghe was virtually unbeatable his whole boxing career, Calzaghe was incredible. | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 18:39 - Dec 17 with 755 views | howenjack |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 17:01 - Dec 17 by Togg |
That's a great piece. As Swansea Jacks we should be proud of Ricky Marciano's Swansea past. One of the best! |
This year would have been the 100th anniversary of his birth . It's a shame there isn't a statue of him to commemorate his time here and also the fact the GI's played such a big part in Swansea's wartime history. A statue on the seafront near Verdi's would be an ideal spot and would certainly draw in some interest from outsiders. Maybe a grant from the WAG ?  | | | |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 19:44 - Dec 17 with 735 views | onehunglow |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 18:37 - Dec 17 by trampie |
Calzaghe unlike Marciano had a top amateur record, Calzaghe was virtually unbeatable his whole boxing career, Calzaghe was incredible. |
Born in London to Italian father too
You bring parochialism to every topic
Now Marciano basically ridiculed by you and Shinglr
You are clueless | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:04 - Dec 17 with 731 views | AnotherJohn |
I'm surprised that people don't seem to have read the three links I posted way back in the thread that include this one. The other two links I posted are based on John Summers' (Welsh journalist and novelist) interviews with Marciano, and the latter's account seems to vary a bit. in one interview it was a second brawl (not in Wind St) that led to Rocky being directed to the gym. There are also inconsistencies regarding what set off the Adelphi brawl, how many opponents were knocked out (3 in one version), and whether they are Australian or South African service men. So the story may have been embroidered over time.
Another link I posted above about Dr Jack Matthews states that he boxed for the Cardiff Uni Medical School boxing team - another thing that varies slightly from Trampie's account.
https://www.606v2.com/t56672-dr-jack-matthews-rocky-marciano-s-little-known-wels [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 20:05]
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:17 - Dec 17 with 715 views | trampie |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:04 - Dec 17 by AnotherJohn |
I'm surprised that people don't seem to have read the three links I posted way back in the thread that include this one. The other two links I posted are based on John Summers' (Welsh journalist and novelist) interviews with Marciano, and the latter's account seems to vary a bit. in one interview it was a second brawl (not in Wind St) that led to Rocky being directed to the gym. There are also inconsistencies regarding what set off the Adelphi brawl, how many opponents were knocked out (3 in one version), and whether they are Australian or South African service men. So the story may have been embroidered over time.
Another link I posted above about Dr Jack Matthews states that he boxed for the Cardiff Uni Medical School boxing team - another thing that varies slightly from Trampie's account.
https://www.606v2.com/t56672-dr-jack-matthews-rocky-marciano-s-little-known-wels [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 20:05]
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How does that vary from what I said ? | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:32 - Dec 17 with 706 views | AnotherJohn |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:17 - Dec 17 by trampie |
How does that vary from what I said ? |
Perhaps I should have said it was a missing detail rather than a variation. You wrote, "Dr Jack just helping out his side not a serious amateur boxer like Marciano", and I interpreted that to mean Dr Jack just stepped in with no experience. In a later post you do say it was his fourth bout, with (I suppose) the earlier ones perhaps linked to the club. Of course, Marciano hadn't had much gym training at that stage so couldn't be said to be a serious amateur. Anyway, I am not being too critical - the Dr Jack story was a good find. [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 20:34]
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:50 - Dec 17 with 691 views | trampie |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:32 - Dec 17 by AnotherJohn |
Perhaps I should have said it was a missing detail rather than a variation. You wrote, "Dr Jack just helping out his side not a serious amateur boxer like Marciano", and I interpreted that to mean Dr Jack just stepped in with no experience. In a later post you do say it was his fourth bout, with (I suppose) the earlier ones perhaps linked to the club. Of course, Marciano hadn't had much gym training at that stage so couldn't be said to be a serious amateur. Anyway, I am not being too critical - the Dr Jack story was a good find. [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 20:34]
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Based on Dr Jack been told just before the Marciano fight that Marciano had knocked out his last six opponents then it's a reasonable assumption to assume that Marciano had at least 6 fights as a minimum probably a lot more than that and if its right about Dr Jack based on what I read over the years about Dr Jack lack of boxing then Marciano was more experienced boxer when they fought.
The story of a Welsh rugby great fighting somebody that went on to be a boxing great is another feather in the cap of Dr Jack, they were representing their 'services' in a wartime bout, Dr Jack was from down the road, an athletics champion and a rugby player, Yanks only in the main played 'rugby' with helmets and pads, so fair play to Marciano for giving it a go, if Dr Jack didn't know what he was facing then no doubt Marciano didn't either. [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 21:00]
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 09:01 - Dec 18 with 654 views | onehunglow |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 20:32 - Dec 17 by AnotherJohn |
Perhaps I should have said it was a missing detail rather than a variation. You wrote, "Dr Jack just helping out his side not a serious amateur boxer like Marciano", and I interpreted that to mean Dr Jack just stepped in with no experience. In a later post you do say it was his fourth bout, with (I suppose) the earlier ones perhaps linked to the club. Of course, Marciano hadn't had much gym training at that stage so couldn't be said to be a serious amateur. Anyway, I am not being too critical - the Dr Jack story was a good find. [Post edited 17 Dec 2023 20:34]
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It’s reasonably well know John.
Dr Jackwas ,if I remember ,only about 5 foot 5 but very stocky.
I didn’t want this thread to end up overtaken by trample and his Welsh obsession . | |
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| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 18:04 - Dec 18 with 609 views | shingle |
| Boxing GOATs (Heavyweights ) on 19:44 - Dec 17 by onehunglow |
Born in London to Italian father too
You bring parochialism to every topic
Now Marciano basically ridiculed by you and Shinglr
You are clueless |
To believe a man weighing 13 st could beat proven greats who weigh 18st coupled with a superior skill set is what i would call clueless, and also devoid of all logic, and i am certainly not ridiculing Rocky he was indeed the best at that time but lucky his opponents were not of the best quality and like him to small to compete in different era`s. | | | |
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