| The 20MPH punishments 08:34 - Aug 3 with 141734 views | SullutaCreturned |
Well the punishment for breaking the limit,
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/police-confirm-how-punish-drivers-
Given how many idiots are on the roads, the delivery drivers under pressure and the actual difficutly in staying below 20 (it is difficult, I do it every week when I go to Cardiff and it's harder than you'd think, specially going downhill) there will be a lot of speeding going on.
The Senedd expect the fire brigade to become a road safety unit, how stupid is that? The fire brigade have their job and it's hard enough for them to do that the way the Senedd behaves.
Then there's the pollution problem, all those cars tootling around in second gear will fill the streets with pollution, it'll rise and rise and the few accidents stopped by this madness will be replaced tenfold and more in the years to come by serious health issues, those with asthma can look out, better buy your respirators now.
I wonder if cancers will also increase?
By the time we have all gone electric, assuming we all do, thousands of lives will be blighted by illness. |  | | |  |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:10 - May 5 with 1739 views | Dr_Winston |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:49 - May 5 by lifelong |
Well, some on here reckon UK roads are extremely safe because only 400 pedestrians are killed on them each year, with thousands being seriously injured. Also in the region of a 100 cyclists are killed each year..nothing blinkered about those stats. |
You've got nothing. No evidence, nothing to back up your arguments. Just tedious repetition.
Here. I'll chuck you some more evidence to back me up.
"UK roads second safest in Europe".
https://www.wdm.co.uk/news/uk-second-safest-roads-in-europe
ROSPA - "Great Britain has one of the best road safety records in the World"
https://www.rospa.com/policy/road-safety
Either come up with some evidence to to demonstrate your claims about UK roads being anything but incredibly safe, or give it up. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 15:14 - May 5 with 1751 views | Boundy |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:47 - May 5 by onehunglow |
After 71 pages,we are now on to the vilification of all those on two wheels.
I’m off on mine ,I think now. It’s motivated me .
I shall be avoiding roads whenever possible as too m@y dyckwads around. |
I'm a cyclist but I'm not adverse to commenting on the recklessness of cyclists , scooter riders ,,one of whom just now I witnessed trying to steer at a rate of knots whilst holding on one handed to the handle bar whilst deep in a telephone conversation nor the antics of some kid trying to pull a wheelie , failing badly and nearly coming a cropper under the wheels of the no 31 bus, all this in a matter of a few hundred yards . Good and bad with all road users as I'm sure you'll attest to. | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 15:37 - May 5 with 1716 views | lifelong |
The facts that hundreds of people are killed or seriously injured on UK roads every month make them extremely unsafe. No matter how many silly percentage arguments you put out,
Your attitude to the safety of children and cyclists on our roads is nothing short of pathetic, coming out with statements like the silly sods shouldn’t run out into the road in the first place, when cutting speeds to 20mph in built up areas has been proved to substantially reduce accidents and prevent serious injury especially to children.
That rospa report states that with 5 people a day killed on UK roads there is much more to be done, you obviously don’t think so.
Attached is a section of a rospa report that backs up the claims that 20mph in built up areas significantly reduces accidents and casualties.
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| The 20MPH punishments on 16:40 - May 5 with 1694 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:14 - May 5 by Boundy |
I'm a cyclist but I'm not adverse to commenting on the recklessness of cyclists , scooter riders ,,one of whom just now I witnessed trying to steer at a rate of knots whilst holding on one handed to the handle bar whilst deep in a telephone conversation nor the antics of some kid trying to pull a wheelie , failing badly and nearly coming a cropper under the wheels of the no 31 bus, all this in a matter of a few hundred yards . Good and bad with all road users as I'm sure you'll attest to. |
Those that do wheelies are knobheads
Speedway track the place for them
It’s easier with an engine anyway | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:08 - May 5 with 1658 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:49 - May 5 by lifelong |
Well, some on here reckon UK roads are extremely safe because only 400 pedestrians are killed on them each year, with thousands being seriously injured. Also in the region of a 100 cyclists are killed each year..nothing blinkered about those stats. |
The roads are safe, its the people that use them that are the problem. That's not a throw away statement, think about it. [Post edited 5 May 18:29]
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| The 20MPH punishments on 08:49 - May 6 with 1526 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:08 - May 5 by Whiterockin |
The roads are safe, its the people that use them that are the problem. That's not a throw away statement, think about it. [Post edited 5 May 18:29]
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Again ,it’s about attitudes
For example,try walking a dog at heel down a narrow road and watch the glares of drivers having to slow down and stop should another car came along in the opposite direction.
Most will not be aware of new Highway Code guidelines vis a vis other road users .
It means sone have to put their phone or coffee down before they throw the empty carton out of the window .
Drivers | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 14:37 - May 6 with 1478 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 15:37 - May 5 by lifelong |
The facts that hundreds of people are killed or seriously injured on UK roads every month make them extremely unsafe. No matter how many silly percentage arguments you put out,
Your attitude to the safety of children and cyclists on our roads is nothing short of pathetic, coming out with statements like the silly sods shouldn’t run out into the road in the first place, when cutting speeds to 20mph in built up areas has been proved to substantially reduce accidents and prevent serious injury especially to children.
That rospa report states that with 5 people a day killed on UK roads there is much more to be done, you obviously don’t think so.
Attached is a section of a rospa report that backs up the claims that 20mph in built up areas significantly reduces accidents and casualties.
|
Nbody has argued about 20mph in the right areas but up until now you have defended the "default limit" and you won't accept that the Uk has relatively very safe roads.
Lets face facts, people shouldn't run out into the road without looking, we were taught that as kids (those iver 40 anyway) and cyclists play fast and loose with the hghway code too. Cyclists also cause accidents on roads and pavements but NOOOOO, everything is the car drivers fault.
Then look at the stats again and tell us which roads are the least safe, is it in built up areas or is it motorways, by-passes and country lanes with higher speed limits?
The fact is that hundreds of people are injured and a few are killed every month. Not all of thise accidents are the car drivers fault but we are the ones getting punished for EVERY accident.
If you really want safer roads, safer than the second safest (as DrW pointed out) then the only way is to have more cameras and more police to ensure drivers slow down and drive more carefully. As long as people ignore speed limits then a big sign with 20 in it won't make much difference.
Look at thestats from 2022,
https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Transport/Roads/Road-Accidents/accidents/
and notice where most of the accidents are, Powys and then tell me, are the roads in Powys mostly suburban, urban or country lanes?
Then notice where the safest roads are, Anglesey, Swansea, Neath/Port talbot and Merthyr. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:25 - May 6 with 1432 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:37 - May 6 by SullutaCreturned |
Nbody has argued about 20mph in the right areas but up until now you have defended the "default limit" and you won't accept that the Uk has relatively very safe roads.
Lets face facts, people shouldn't run out into the road without looking, we were taught that as kids (those iver 40 anyway) and cyclists play fast and loose with the hghway code too. Cyclists also cause accidents on roads and pavements but NOOOOO, everything is the car drivers fault.
Then look at the stats again and tell us which roads are the least safe, is it in built up areas or is it motorways, by-passes and country lanes with higher speed limits?
The fact is that hundreds of people are injured and a few are killed every month. Not all of thise accidents are the car drivers fault but we are the ones getting punished for EVERY accident.
If you really want safer roads, safer than the second safest (as DrW pointed out) then the only way is to have more cameras and more police to ensure drivers slow down and drive more carefully. As long as people ignore speed limits then a big sign with 20 in it won't make much difference.
Look at thestats from 2022,
https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Transport/Roads/Road-Accidents/accidents/
and notice where most of the accidents are, Powys and then tell me, are the roads in Powys mostly suburban, urban or country lanes?
Then notice where the safest roads are, Anglesey, Swansea, Neath/Port talbot and Merthyr. |
Legally it IS almost always the fault of the driver.
Trust me,in Netherlands ,if a cyclist is in collision with a car ,then Police will see the driver as blameworthy .
The fact many pedestrians are careless often glued to their phones doesn’t help but drivers in general do not perceive hazards as they should .
Cyclists ,pedestrians,horse riders ,do NOT cause accidents per se but they are often the victims .
I’m struggling to get folk to see the whole picture and Winston’s polemic against cyclists is all the evidence needed to see why we have “ collisions”. They are NOT accidents .
There again, many are wrapped up on their own ego and ignorance and look to stats from somewhere to justify them.
Roads safe ? Well it’s concrete,tarmac or dirt . ALL roads are dangerous faced with feckless drivers believing they are beyond reproach .
Try going up to sonebody and tell them their driving is shite . I have. It’s often fists or tiny tears time. No motorist out there will take to be told . The speed awareness courses are seen as. An inconvenience not as a wake up call.
I tell ya,this thread is exhausting and exhaustive | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 17:47 - May 6 with 1426 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 14:37 - May 6 by SullutaCreturned |
Nbody has argued about 20mph in the right areas but up until now you have defended the "default limit" and you won't accept that the Uk has relatively very safe roads.
Lets face facts, people shouldn't run out into the road without looking, we were taught that as kids (those iver 40 anyway) and cyclists play fast and loose with the hghway code too. Cyclists also cause accidents on roads and pavements but NOOOOO, everything is the car drivers fault.
Then look at the stats again and tell us which roads are the least safe, is it in built up areas or is it motorways, by-passes and country lanes with higher speed limits?
The fact is that hundreds of people are injured and a few are killed every month. Not all of thise accidents are the car drivers fault but we are the ones getting punished for EVERY accident.
If you really want safer roads, safer than the second safest (as DrW pointed out) then the only way is to have more cameras and more police to ensure drivers slow down and drive more carefully. As long as people ignore speed limits then a big sign with 20 in it won't make much difference.
Look at thestats from 2022,
https://statswales.gov.wales/Catalogue/Transport/Roads/Road-Accidents/accidents/
and notice where most of the accidents are, Powys and then tell me, are the roads in Powys mostly suburban, urban or country lanes?
Then notice where the safest roads are, Anglesey, Swansea, Neath/Port talbot and Merthyr. |
It's irrelevant who's to blame, it's about saving lives | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:05 - May 6 with 1412 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:47 - May 6 by controversial_jack |
It's irrelevant who's to blame, it's about saving lives |
It's not irrelevant. Educate and clamp down hard on those flouting the law. Don't just bring in blanket measures and inconvenience the law abiding majority. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:31 - May 6 with 1378 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:05 - May 6 by Whiterockin |
It's not irrelevant. Educate and clamp down hard on those flouting the law. Don't just bring in blanket measures and inconvenience the law abiding majority. |
To do that means replacing the 20 000 effectively dumped by Theresa May .
No chance of them being replaced
When was the last time you saw a traffic car patrolling ? | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 18:51 - May 6 with 1359 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:31 - May 6 by onehunglow |
To do that means replacing the 20 000 effectively dumped by Theresa May .
No chance of them being replaced
When was the last time you saw a traffic car patrolling ? |
You could start by educating children how to ride a bike and repair all broken speed cameras. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 19:43 - May 6 with 1316 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:51 - May 6 by Whiterockin |
You could start by educating children how to ride a bike and repair all broken speed cameras. |
And then make car drivers get off their mobiles or drive whilst having a fag | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:43 - May 6 with 1289 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:25 - May 6 by onehunglow |
Legally it IS almost always the fault of the driver.
Trust me,in Netherlands ,if a cyclist is in collision with a car ,then Police will see the driver as blameworthy .
The fact many pedestrians are careless often glued to their phones doesn’t help but drivers in general do not perceive hazards as they should .
Cyclists ,pedestrians,horse riders ,do NOT cause accidents per se but they are often the victims .
I’m struggling to get folk to see the whole picture and Winston’s polemic against cyclists is all the evidence needed to see why we have “ collisions”. They are NOT accidents .
There again, many are wrapped up on their own ego and ignorance and look to stats from somewhere to justify them.
Roads safe ? Well it’s concrete,tarmac or dirt . ALL roads are dangerous faced with feckless drivers believing they are beyond reproach .
Try going up to sonebody and tell them their driving is shite . I have. It’s often fists or tiny tears time. No motorist out there will take to be told . The speed awareness courses are seen as. An inconvenience not as a wake up call.
I tell ya,this thread is exhausting and exhaustive |
OHL, try driving down the Kingsway in Swansea, pedestrians walk out without looking. Cyclists hurtle down the now shared pavements and collisions are regular, near misses very frequent.
We ALL cause accidents but if you are driving along within the speed limit and someone runs out right in front of you, straight into your car, why is it your fault?
I dont think the Netherlands are a fair comparison because they are much more set up for cyclists, it's their culture. The UK is very different, we have a different atiitude to these things and if that is to change then eucation AND better monitoring by the police is needed.
What are the Dutch police like? Are they well staffed? Do people get away with the crimes over there that get ignored over here? | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:49 - May 6 with 1279 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:43 - May 6 by SullutaCreturned |
OHL, try driving down the Kingsway in Swansea, pedestrians walk out without looking. Cyclists hurtle down the now shared pavements and collisions are regular, near misses very frequent.
We ALL cause accidents but if you are driving along within the speed limit and someone runs out right in front of you, straight into your car, why is it your fault?
I dont think the Netherlands are a fair comparison because they are much more set up for cyclists, it's their culture. The UK is very different, we have a different atiitude to these things and if that is to change then eucation AND better monitoring by the police is needed.
What are the Dutch police like? Are they well staffed? Do people get away with the crimes over there that get ignored over here? |
Cat.
I stand by every word.
I view things different yo you.
Dutch police take no crap from anyone really,outside Amsterdam
I repeat,if yiu hit a cyclist or a pedestrian ,good luck.
Have you really noticed the mind minding arrogance of many drivers and do you not see them as supine .
I’ve mentioned walking down a narrow road . It’s fraught with danger and that comes from car drivers ,those who see cyclists and pedestrians as being in their way ,holding up their progress
Most car drivers don’t think at all.
They cagey into the car of a morning ,thinking of work ,kids,wife then assume they will be getting out at the destination . | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 21:23 - May 6 with 1266 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:05 - May 6 by Whiterockin |
It's not irrelevant. Educate and clamp down hard on those flouting the law. Don't just bring in blanket measures and inconvenience the law abiding majority. |
Better still, ensure drivers understand the basic rules of the road, like speed limits | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:08 - May 6 with 1255 views | Whiterockin |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:23 - May 6 by controversial_jack |
Better still, ensure drivers understand the basic rules of the road, like speed limits |
I think you will find that the vast majority do, so why penalise them by bringing in blanket regulations on people who do understand the rules and keep to them. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:24 - May 6 with 1248 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 21:23 - May 6 by controversial_jack |
Better still, ensure drivers understand the basic rules of the road, like speed limits |
No.
It means more than the basics
Basic is what a Driving test dods
Basic knowledge
Experience ,perception,concentration , forebear acne and judgement cannot be easily taught .
People pass a basic rest then go on motorways ,A Roads and country roads at night and then find out how lacking they are .
Not long ago,four young died in a ditch in north Wales having been in a car . Driver hardly out of the driving centre .
No pedestrians or cyclists involved
I know the road twisty and some tricky” bends .
Add in unpredictable wild animals and there you have it . | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 20:51 - May 7 with 1144 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 22:24 - May 6 by onehunglow |
No.
It means more than the basics
Basic is what a Driving test dods
Basic knowledge
Experience ,perception,concentration , forebear acne and judgement cannot be easily taught .
People pass a basic rest then go on motorways ,A Roads and country roads at night and then find out how lacking they are .
Not long ago,four young died in a ditch in north Wales having been in a car . Driver hardly out of the driving centre .
No pedestrians or cyclists involved
I know the road twisty and some tricky” bends .
Add in unpredictable wild animals and there you have it . |
And that incident is the perfect example of why simply lowering speed limits won't work.
Young people in cars, I've been there and felt the pressure to go faster and faster. This is why we need more safegiards, more police and cameras, rules about engine sizes for new drivers.
it needs a holistic approach not a sticking plaster. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 10:13 - May 8 with 1082 views | onehunglow |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:51 - May 7 by SullutaCreturned |
And that incident is the perfect example of why simply lowering speed limits won't work.
Young people in cars, I've been there and felt the pressure to go faster and faster. This is why we need more safegiards, more police and cameras, rules about engine sizes for new drivers.
it needs a holistic approach not a sticking plaster. |
That’s fair comment.
Personally,I’m not in favour of a blanket limit.
It is ludicrous and lazy governance .
I’m off to deepest Wales tomorrow for a few days so I ll assess it then and report back
I’m not a big fan of Gog Plod | |
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| The 20MPH punishments on 13:54 - May 8 with 1048 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 20:51 - May 7 by SullutaCreturned |
And that incident is the perfect example of why simply lowering speed limits won't work.
Young people in cars, I've been there and felt the pressure to go faster and faster. This is why we need more safegiards, more police and cameras, rules about engine sizes for new drivers.
it needs a holistic approach not a sticking plaster. |
It's worked where it's been tried. Spain, Netherlands both have 18mph limits, and a trial in Hull was very successful.
Slower speed limits do work. Yes, we will get some selfish entitles arseholes who think the rules don't apply to them,unfortunately. It's not a cure all, but it's a great help in reducing deaths and injuries | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:47 - May 8 with 1011 views | controversial_jack |
They are some of the safest, but do we stop there and say well that's ok then when there are still many lives lost? Ideally, we want zero lives lost, but that's not attainable | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:30 - May 8 with 990 views | SullutaCreturned |
| The 20MPH punishments on 17:47 - May 8 by controversial_jack |
They are some of the safest, but do we stop there and say well that's ok then when there are still many lives lost? Ideally, we want zero lives lost, but that's not attainable |
Road casualties were in decline before the 20mph and yes, it doesn't mean we should stop but we should stop punishing EVERYBODY for what a few people do.
Go after those who drive stupidly and do the damage. | | | |
| The 20MPH punishments on 09:51 - May 9 with 917 views | controversial_jack |
| The 20MPH punishments on 18:30 - May 8 by SullutaCreturned |
Road casualties were in decline before the 20mph and yes, it doesn't mean we should stop but we should stop punishing EVERYBODY for what a few people do.
Go after those who drive stupidly and do the damage. |
We don't have the resources for that | | | |
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