| New Rules 20:20 - Oct 23 with 3817 views | HullDale |
Inspired by the Wimbledon thread and a couple of conversations yesterday - what rule changes would you be tempted to introduce to football?
I've got a couple that I think I'd be in favour of -
- Sin Bin... 5 or 10 minutes out of the game if you get a yellow card. Currently there is no obvious benefit to the 'fouled' team if the opposition get a yellow, and in fact it could go against the fouled team if a player accumulates enough to get a ban against a direct rival in future weeks.
- Clock Stopping... get rid of injury time and instead stop the clock every time there is a foul or free kick. Not necessarily throw ins / goal kicks / corners as they are easier for the ref to manage. |  | | |  |
| New Rules on 20:34 - Oct 23 with 3777 views | EllDale |
Give substituted players one minute maximum to leave the pitch. Anything over that added to stoppage time.
No tactical subs allowed once 90 minutes are on the clock, just those for genuine injuries.
As I mentioned on another thread, injured players, once ushered from the pitch, aren’t allowed to return for two minutes rather than straightaway. Should cut down on playacting. |  | | |
| New Rules on 21:34 - Oct 23 with 3695 views | dingdangblue |
'Football's law-making body the International Football Association Board (Ifab) has previously looked into the possibility of introducing a stop-clock. In this season's Premier League, the average 'ball in play' time is 55 minutes and three seconds - the lowest it has been in over a decade'.
I presume its a similar amount in the other divisions. If so it would make sense making the game 60 minutes long (30 mins each half) and stopping the clock every time the ball isn't in play - obviously you'd need a time keeper in the stands looking after the clock. |  |
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| New Rules on 23:47 - Oct 23 with 3535 views | D_Alien |
The problem is, having a stopped clock would just encourage teams to take 'time outs'
We're used to seeing players heading for the dugouts having drinks thrown at them, and if there was no incentive to do otherwise the game would become a farce, unrecognisable from the football match we go to watch and leave the ground before 5pm
Yesterday, the ref started to ignore Wimbledon players lying on the ground and allowed play to go on when it became clear what was going on. But it's a very fine line - if a player was denied treatment for a serious injury, he'd be crucified
I thought he had a decent game, everything considered
The simple remedy would be to delay the player returning to the pitch for about the same amount of time they've taken out of the game. It'd immediately stop histrionics. And if a player is genuinely injured, it'd just give them time to recover if they weren't going to be substituted
I'm pretty sure the fourth official could earn their money by overseeing this, leaving the ref to get on with play |  |
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| New Rules on 00:34 - Oct 24 with 3502 views | sxdale |
Instead of having a stopped clock, have it start when the ball goes out of play or a frre kick is awarded. If the throw in / free kick / goal kick is not taken within the set time say 1 minute, then the opposition get the throw in / free kick or a corner is awarded. Would need to use a multi ball system which shouldn't be a problem. | | | |
| New Rules on 06:52 - Oct 24 with 3375 views | seasidedale |
Not to sure about a stopped clock as some teams would use it as an advantage, an ex pro footballer told me that play is about momentumand stopping play for free kicks ect distrusts this so click stopping isn’t an answer, one thing I would like is | | | |
| New Rules on 06:54 - Oct 24 with 3373 views | seasidedale |
Sorry pressed button in error…
Throw ins nearest player has to take it would help a bit to speed up | | | |
| New Rules on 07:30 - Oct 24 with 3349 views | dingdangblue |
| New Rules on 06:52 - Oct 24 by seasidedale |
Not to sure about a stopped clock as some teams would use it as an advantage, an ex pro footballer told me that play is about momentumand stopping play for free kicks ect distrusts this so click stopping isn’t an answer, one thing I would like is |
Play is stopped now for free kicks and throw ins? Only the refs watch isn't. The actual game wouldn't change too much - only the timekeeping - it would be pointless players feigning injury or wasting time because there wouldn't be any time wasted. Even a trial of this would be worthwhile just to see if it worked. | |
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| New Rules on 07:35 - Oct 24 with 3347 views | dingdangblue |
| New Rules on 23:47 - Oct 23 by D_Alien |
The problem is, having a stopped clock would just encourage teams to take 'time outs'
We're used to seeing players heading for the dugouts having drinks thrown at them, and if there was no incentive to do otherwise the game would become a farce, unrecognisable from the football match we go to watch and leave the ground before 5pm
Yesterday, the ref started to ignore Wimbledon players lying on the ground and allowed play to go on when it became clear what was going on. But it's a very fine line - if a player was denied treatment for a serious injury, he'd be crucified
I thought he had a decent game, everything considered
The simple remedy would be to delay the player returning to the pitch for about the same amount of time they've taken out of the game. It'd immediately stop histrionics. And if a player is genuinely injured, it'd just give them time to recover if they weren't going to be substituted
I'm pretty sure the fourth official could earn their money by overseeing this, leaving the ref to get on with play |
He ignored Pell once and allowed play to go on. Even then Pell collapsed a minute later and the ref allowed the physio on. Other than that I can't remember him ignoring anyone else? Every Wimbledon player who sat down on the turf other than that got the game stopped and had 'treatment'. It became embarrassing. | |
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| New Rules on 09:02 - Oct 24 with 3264 views | steofthedale |
1. Head injuries and broken limbs apart, all treatment of “injured” players to be undertaken off the pitch, allowing the game to proceed in their absence.
2. Rather than booking players for time wasting, simply add the time on making such gaming pointless. I suspect added time would then regularly exceed 10 minutes. [Post edited 24 Oct 2022 9:02]
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| New Rules on 09:40 - Oct 24 with 3182 views | BillyRudd |
| New Rules on 06:52 - Oct 24 by seasidedale |
Not to sure about a stopped clock as some teams would use it as an advantage, an ex pro footballer told me that play is about momentumand stopping play for free kicks ect distrusts this so click stopping isn’t an answer, one thing I would like is |
Exactly this seaside. Game management is done not to reduce the time in play, as assuming the officials are doing their job correctly and adding time on, there is no game time lost. They do it to break up momentum. Allowing trainers on for the so called injured and letting the play continue would cut out feigning injury at a stroke. It is done for other sports and I am at a loss as to why its not adopted in football.
No subs in injury time would be an improvement as well. | | | |
| New Rules on 11:00 - Oct 24 with 3128 views | AtThePeake |
| New Rules on 07:30 - Oct 24 by dingdangblue |
Play is stopped now for free kicks and throw ins? Only the refs watch isn't. The actual game wouldn't change too much - only the timekeeping - it would be pointless players feigning injury or wasting time because there wouldn't be any time wasted. Even a trial of this would be worthwhile just to see if it worked. |
I think what seaside dale is saying is that there would still be a point to feigning injury and wasting time because it can kill a team's momentum.
There was a spell at the start of the second-half on Saturday where we looked like we had finally clicked and had a 2 or 3 minute period of sustained pressure. When Wimbledon cleared their lines, their forward was fouled and went down, spent a good minute on the floor, completely killed our momentum and a couple of minutes later they scored the second. Taking the sting out of our game and relieving the pressure on the defence at that point would have been more valuable than the minute of time-wasting. |  |
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| New Rules on 10:57 - Oct 25 with 2758 views | A_Newby |
This was from PGMOL at the start of this season.
1. Referees in the Football League have been instructed to reduce time-wasting
2. They will also increase the threshold for penalising physical contacts in tackles
3. The Professional Game Match Officials Limited are committed to a better EFL
4. The 2021-22 season saw a record low for actual game time due to time-wasting
I have seen evidence of referees implementing point 2 both in live and TV matches, there seems to be more physical contact allowed.
On point 1, time wasting my impression is this has got worse.
As they are now collecting these in play data for each match it would be interesting to see at the end of the season if the in play time has increased / decreased and by how much. [Post edited 25 Oct 2022 11:03]
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| New Rules on 11:13 - Oct 25 with 2718 views | A_Newby |
2021-22 Premier League fixtures with lowest ball in play time
03/10/21 West Ham Brentford 41 33
21/08/21 Aston Villa Newcastle 41 51
13/02/22 Newcastle Aston Villa 43 06
28/11/21 Leicester Watford 43 31
4/12/21 Southampton Brighton 43 33
22/01/22 Everton Aston Villa 43 51
06/04/22 Burnley Everton 44 13
18/09/21 Aston Villa Everton 44 43
25/09/21 Watford Newcastle 44 48
08/02/22 Newcastle Everton 45 16
With these matches it would be interesting to know
1. Does the in play quoted include added stoppage time? If it does what was the actual in play time during the normal 90 minutes?
2. If they do not include stoppage time then how much was added to each match? | | | |
| New Rules on 13:38 - Oct 28 with 2340 views | A_Newby |
A football match lasts 90 minutes, of this time the in-play time varies between about 40 minutes to around 70 minutes with an average in-play time of around 55 minutes.
Research from the MLS in the USA found (unsurprisingly) that spectators found matches with higher in-play time more enjoyable and exciting to watch than those with lower in-play time.
Generally, matches involving “better” teams have more in-play time than those involving weaker teams.
There are many reasons for this, one example is that more time is lost in league 2 matches from throw ins than in premier league matches. Why is this?
The answer is not that league 2 teams take longer to take a throw in than premier league players, it is because on average there are nearly twice as many throw ins per match in league 2 than in the premier league.
Again, the reason for more throw ins is obvious, the weaker league 2 players have more misplaced passes, poor ball control etc resulting in the ball going out of play more frequently. | | | |
| New Rules on 13:40 - Oct 28 with 2339 views | A_Newby |
Now onto “Game management”
This generally has two purposes.
- To run down the playing clock to reduce the playing time that opposition has to develop opportunities to score.
- To disrupt the “flow” of the game and any “momentum” the opposition team may have.
There is nothing "illegal" in principle with a team trying to achieve either of these, it just depends on how it is accomplished.
Generally, there are two types of game management, in play (perfectly legal) and out of play (dodgy).
In-play game management is where a team holds onto or retains the ball for as long as possible, often in an area of the pitch from where the opposition if they regain possession are unlikely to score e.g. near the opposition corner flag. This is a legitimate game management tactic.
Out of play game management (the dark arts as Bentley called them) is delaying the restart after the ball has been taken out of play for say a free kick, throw in, corner etc.
It is sometimes done in matches to disrupt play e.g., preventing the opposition from taking quick free kick or throw in when your own team are out of position but often it is used to simply “run the clock down”.
Delaying the restart of play is an offence punishable by a caution (yellow card) however this is rarely, if ever, applied to the letter of the law. | | | |
| New Rules on 13:41 - Oct 28 with 2338 views | A_Newby |
From Law 12 — Fouls and Misconduct.
“DELAYING THE RESTART OF PLAY
Referees MUST caution players who delay the restart of play by:
- appearing to take a throw-in but suddenly leaving it to a team-mate to take
- delaying leaving the field of play when being substituted
- excessively delaying a restart
- kicking or carrying the ball away, or provoking a confrontation by deliberately touching the ball after the referee has stopped play
- taking a free kick from the wrong position to force a retake”
Note that it says the referee MUST caution the player and that in most of the offences there is no use of the word deliberate.
If this was followed to the letter of the law in some matches most of the players on the pitch would be booked, some even sent off. | | | |
| New Rules on 13:43 - Oct 28 with 2333 views | A_Newby |
From PGMOL (The EFL referees professional body)
“After the 2021-22 (EFL) campaign saw less playing time than ever before, referees will also be more proactive in curbing time-wasting and will be prepared to sanction players early on in the game.”
There is little evidence that this is being implemented. The vast majority of cautions for delaying the restart of play (time wasting) still occur in the last 10 minutes of normal time and stoppage time.
For example, in our recent match against Tranmere, O’Donnell was taking excessive time to take goal kicks for a large part of the second half. He was finally given a yellow card in the 94th minute for delaying the restart of play.
Not really much of a sanction for the Dale and of no benefit to Tranmere. | | | |
| New Rules on 13:45 - Oct 28 with 2329 views | A_Newby |
Some people have suggested that for delaying the restart of play that the ball should be turned over to the opposition, for example if the goalkeeper delays taking a goal kick, then a corner should be awarded.
From Law 8 — Start and restart of play
“If an offence occurs when the ball is not in play this does not change how play is restarted.”
This basic mantra drummed into all referees.
If play has been stopped for say a goal kick it must be restarted with the goal kick. If there is an offence before the ball is back in play the referee can caution players but not change the way the game is restarted. So, if time is “wasted” before goal kicks, throw ins, or free kicks the referee should caution the players involved but not in any way change how the game is restarted.
Looking at another example, if a side is awarded a corner and before the kick taker touches the ball to make it “active” a defender violently pushes an attacker over in the penalty area.
The referee can delay the taking of the corner kick, caution the offending player but he cannot award a penalty kick as the offence occurred when the ball was out of play, and he must restart the match with the corner kick.
It is interesting to note that most melees and violent offences happen when the ball is out of play.
In these situations, it would be impossible for officials in real time to decide who is the instigator and who, if they had the power to, should be awarded a free kick, so after cautions have been given out the game restarts as if the incidents did not occur.
For these reasons football’s governing bodies are loathe to change in any way law 8 as officials say it could make some matches impossible to referee. | | | |
| New Rules on 13:48 - Oct 28 with 2315 views | A_Newby |
So how do we increase game in-play time (stop time wasting)?
Other people have suggested
- Stopping the clock resulting 90 minutes of in-play time. This would fundamentally change the game of football. 90 minutes of in-play time would probably equate to matches of 2.5 to 3 hours long. This is too long for many reasons. Players would be tired, more injuries, teams with bigger budgets / larger squads would be advantaged. etc.
- Stopping the clock as above but reducing a match to 60 minutes length. This is better but as has been pointed out by others would bring a new set of problems such as teams taking excessive “time outs” delays to restarting a match.
Now my suggestion, as most “time wasting” occurs in the last ten minutes of a match and stoppage time.
- The game remains the same for the first 80 minutes of a match with the referee determining stoppage time and cautioning players for delaying the restart of play as usual, although starting to issue these cautions earlier in the match.
- At the end of 80 minutes the referee informs the 4th official how much stoppage time to add on to the match time and the fourth official displays this plus 10 minutes on his board. This is to indicate the amount of “in-play” time that is left.
- From this time on the fourth official is in charge of the match time keeping and “stops the clock” whenever the ball is out of play and restarts it when the ball is back in-play. He signals the referee when this time is up, and the referee stops the match.
- So, for example if the referee indicates after 80 minutes that there are 5 minutes of stoppage time to be added the fourth official would display that there 15 minutes left of the match to play. He would ensure as far as possible that all the 15 minutes are in-play time, stopping the “time wasting” benefit of delaying restarts of play.
- During this time the referee will however still issue cautions for delaying the restart of play.
- The fourth official would probably not stop the clock for a few seconds on occasions during this time, for example if a throw in is awarded and is taken within 5-10 seconds.
- This should mean that in the final stages of a match much of the time the ball is in play and result in an exciting finish.
[Post edited 28 Oct 2022 13:49]
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| New Rules on 14:03 - Oct 28 with 2281 views | kel |
Can’t really be bothered wading through the replies on this thread, but here’s a scenario.
We’re on 85 minutes in the final game of the season winning 1-0 and needing 3 points to stay up. The oppostion need a point to secure a play off spot. What would people want to happen in that situation? Get the ball back in play as soon as possible or run down the clock?
Can we stop pretending we have some kind of morals when trying to win a game? |  | | |
| New Rules on 14:20 - Oct 28 with 2239 views | 442Dale |
| New Rules on 14:03 - Oct 28 by kel |
Can’t really be bothered wading through the replies on this thread, but here’s a scenario.
We’re on 85 minutes in the final game of the season winning 1-0 and needing 3 points to stay up. The oppostion need a point to secure a play off spot. What would people want to happen in that situation? Get the ball back in play as soon as possible or run down the clock?
Can we stop pretending we have some kind of morals when trying to win a game? |
We all know the answer.
And anyway, Richard O’Donnell will still be at Prenton Park explaining to their fans why it took so long for him to get booked. |  |
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| New Rules on 17:19 - Oct 28 with 2096 views | AtThePeake |
| New Rules on 14:20 - Oct 28 by 442Dale |
We all know the answer.
And anyway, Richard O’Donnell will still be at Prenton Park explaining to their fans why it took so long for him to get booked. |
My favourite bit was when he still went through and kicked the ball even though he surely heard the whistle and knew a yellow card was on coming before going through the action, just wasting that extra two or three seconds as the ball made its way back to him. Lovely. | |
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| New Rules on 17:35 - Oct 28 with 2084 views | 442Dale |
| New Rules on 17:19 - Oct 28 by AtThePeake |
My favourite bit was when he still went through and kicked the ball even though he surely heard the whistle and knew a yellow card was on coming before going through the action, just wasting that extra two or three seconds as the ball made its way back to him. Lovely. |
Horrible man. | |
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