| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 20:25 - Jul 2 with 4697 views | daveB |
There was one a time when signings were judged on what they bring to the team, are they good players, do they improve the team etc but now they also have to be scouted in the right way by the right people.
All seems a bit mad. I want to see the DOF model work but you can't have every signing made above the managers head, needs to be a balance.
Surely part of the appointment process to appoint Warburton would have been to say what kind of players the club want which is what they did with Holloway. From what Ferdinand has said over the years he seems to want the following from signings
players who see QPR as a step up rather than a pension pot
be a decent age with potential who can be developed
Sell on Value
Improve the first team
Fit into the clubs wage structure and budget
Not every signing will tick all those boxes but you'd want them at least one of them for each signing which is what we were doing under Holloway, less so under McClaren
Whether it is Penrice other scouts or Warburton recommending players as long as they fit int the above profile of player I'm not really sure what the problem is. |  | |  |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:10 - Jul 2 with 4367 views | Match82 |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 20:25 - Jul 2 by daveB |
There was one a time when signings were judged on what they bring to the team, are they good players, do they improve the team etc but now they also have to be scouted in the right way by the right people.
All seems a bit mad. I want to see the DOF model work but you can't have every signing made above the managers head, needs to be a balance.
Surely part of the appointment process to appoint Warburton would have been to say what kind of players the club want which is what they did with Holloway. From what Ferdinand has said over the years he seems to want the following from signings
players who see QPR as a step up rather than a pension pot
be a decent age with potential who can be developed
Sell on Value
Improve the first team
Fit into the clubs wage structure and budget
Not every signing will tick all those boxes but you'd want them at least one of them for each signing which is what we were doing under Holloway, less so under McClaren
Whether it is Penrice other scouts or Warburton recommending players as long as they fit int the above profile of player I'm not really sure what the problem is. |
I think if the first 3 signings had been people Warburton wasn't familiar with then this would be looked at in a different light. As you say it should be a mix, but it's beginning to look more like a trend. |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:18 - Jul 2 with 4337 views | stevec |
Turning this around, how many of our defenders last season would have got 31 games in an Aberdeen side?
70 goals against a season says give this man a chance. |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:33 - Jul 2 with 4286 views | daveB |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:10 - Jul 2 by Match82 |
I think if the first 3 signings had been people Warburton wasn't familiar with then this would be looked at in a different light. As you say it should be a mix, but it's beginning to look more like a trend. |
does it really matter though if he knew them or didn't? Ultimately any signings have to be players the manager wants otherwise you are back to the Flavio days when players are signed that the manager doesn't want to pick so they get sacked anyway.
Is Luke Freeman judged as a good signing because of how he played for us or who scouted him? Just as Lynch is judged as a poor signing due to how he played rather than who spotted him.
I get the concern that If the signings don't work and Warburton is sacked we are left with players who the next manager doesn't want but that would be the case whether they were picked by Penrice or Warburton.
If we are assuming Penrice had major say when Holloway was manager we had that with Scowen and Smith who were excellent under Holloway but were rarely picked last season so not really sure what the difference is | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 23:34 - Jul 2 with 4105 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
Really struggling to find fault with this signing. Welcome Dominic. |  |
| |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 23:47 - Jul 2 with 4081 views | Benny_the_Ball |
My, this is a left-field signing. I can only assume that he was cheap. Time will tell if he's also cheerful.
Interestingly by all accounts Ball is a defender, however during the interview he sees himself as a defensive midfielder. [Post edited 3 Jul 2019 2:43]
|  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 01:13 - Jul 3 with 4007 views | isawqpratwcity |
I've never been one to say "what does Les do?", but the signings this season are entirely Warburton retreads. Therefore, despite the spectacular success of signings like Derry and Hill, I have to sympathise with Clive's last question about Ferdinand and Penrice and the overall theme about manager-specific signings. We'll have to wait and see. |  |
| |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 02:04 - Jul 3 with 3984 views | Match82 |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:33 - Jul 2 by daveB |
does it really matter though if he knew them or didn't? Ultimately any signings have to be players the manager wants otherwise you are back to the Flavio days when players are signed that the manager doesn't want to pick so they get sacked anyway.
Is Luke Freeman judged as a good signing because of how he played for us or who scouted him? Just as Lynch is judged as a poor signing due to how he played rather than who spotted him.
I get the concern that If the signings don't work and Warburton is sacked we are left with players who the next manager doesn't want but that would be the case whether they were picked by Penrice or Warburton.
If we are assuming Penrice had major say when Holloway was manager we had that with Scowen and Smith who were excellent under Holloway but were rarely picked last season so not really sure what the difference is |
On a single signing, or even two? No. But if it becomes the trend then I think it's fair game to question whether these signings are right for the club or right for the manager. If the latter, well we don't exactly have a great track record of keeping a manager in place for a long time. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 07:28 - Jul 3 with 3775 views | Northernr |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:18 - Jul 2 by stevec |
Turning this around, how many of our defenders last season would have got 31 games in an Aberdeen side?
70 goals against a season says give this man a chance. |
Honestly? All of them. |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:22 - Jul 3 with 3573 views | daveB |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 02:04 - Jul 3 by Match82 |
On a single signing, or even two? No. But if it becomes the trend then I think it's fair game to question whether these signings are right for the club or right for the manager. If the latter, well we don't exactly have a great track record of keeping a manager in place for a long time. |
Problem will be the same whether they are signed by penrice, Ferdinand, Warburton or Aunt Bessie, if things don't work out or if a manager moves to a bigger club (stop laughing) the new man might not like some of the players. Happened last year with Smyth, Bright, Goss and Manning who were all recommended by scouting team and might happen with these new ones. Key thing is do they improve the team, thats what ultimately they will be judged on | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:26 - Jul 3 with 3554 views | stevec |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 07:28 - Jul 3 by Northernr |
Honestly? All of them. |
Come off it Clive.
They are a top four side in their top Division. Sure, Celtic/Rangers are a league apart but have a think about our record in friendlies against Scottish opposition.
Admittedly they're rare affairs but I can't recall us putting up a decent fight (no pun intended) against any of them since Glasgow Rangers about 50 years ago.
Given a football lesson by Celtic, Falkirk giving us a going over, Kilmarnock too was it?
You'll probably tell me Cladcladcladclachin Mechanical Engineers or such like took a fearful beating off us at some point, but don't build us up as too good for Aberdeen. | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:31 - Jul 3 with 3536 views | WestminsteRs |
Context is key here. If this is about strengthening the squad with a useful utility player to have around and put on the bench to cover a couple of positions this makes sense.
My personal view is that actually there's not a huge amount of difference in quality between the average lower half Championship player (our standard) and decent players in L1 or even in Scottish league! A lot comes down to intelligence and attitude. There has to be an attitude and character dimension to this. Warburton knows the character of this guy and if he thinks he can get something out of him and use him in the right way we probably do have to go with it.
The positive thing is that he won't be expensive. This round of recruitment cannot be compared to the Hughes or Redknapp days. The difference is they were spending £££ on wages and transfers and these are *relatively* low risk. Some transfers work and some don't. At least if this one works out poorly we won't be paying someone to sit on the bench at £2m a year in four years time. |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:35 - Jul 3 with 3528 views | Northernr |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:26 - Jul 3 by stevec |
Come off it Clive.
They are a top four side in their top Division. Sure, Celtic/Rangers are a league apart but have a think about our record in friendlies against Scottish opposition.
Admittedly they're rare affairs but I can't recall us putting up a decent fight (no pun intended) against any of them since Glasgow Rangers about 50 years ago.
Given a football lesson by Celtic, Falkirk giving us a going over, Kilmarnock too was it?
You'll probably tell me Cladcladcladclachin Mechanical Engineers or such like took a fearful beating off us at some point, but don't build us up as too good for Aberdeen. |
Bidwell, Leistner, Furlong and even Lynch would all be regulars in that Aberdeen team like it or not. | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:38 - Jul 3 with 3517 views | stevec |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:35 - Jul 3 by Northernr |
Bidwell, Leistner, Furlong and even Lynch would all be regulars in that Aberdeen team like it or not. |
I've enquired at Specsavers about those blue and white hooped contact lenses and I know for a fact they don't come cheap. | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:56 - Jul 3 with 3470 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:31 - Jul 3 by WestminsteRs |
Context is key here. If this is about strengthening the squad with a useful utility player to have around and put on the bench to cover a couple of positions this makes sense.
My personal view is that actually there's not a huge amount of difference in quality between the average lower half Championship player (our standard) and decent players in L1 or even in Scottish league! A lot comes down to intelligence and attitude. There has to be an attitude and character dimension to this. Warburton knows the character of this guy and if he thinks he can get something out of him and use him in the right way we probably do have to go with it.
The positive thing is that he won't be expensive. This round of recruitment cannot be compared to the Hughes or Redknapp days. The difference is they were spending £££ on wages and transfers and these are *relatively* low risk. Some transfers work and some don't. At least if this one works out poorly we won't be paying someone to sit on the bench at £2m a year in four years time. |
Excellent post.
"Context" is a good word, and you are right that this is a fourth choice centre-back.
I'm also not convinced that this has to be an either/or situation when it comes to who got him in. It's entirely feasible that when Penrice and Warburton talk about targets for their fourth choice centre-back / utility player Warburton could recommend Ball, and Penrice could agree with his assessment from his previous research, and both could go to Ferdinand saying they are happy that ball could fit the profile and the budget.
I was uneasy about this at first until I read posts like yours.
Context. |  |
| |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 09:56 - Jul 3 with 3467 views | CroydonCaptJack |
I don't think we should assess the quality of that league on the basis of friendlies against us should we? |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:13 - Jul 3 with 3416 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 22:10 - Jul 2 by Match82 |
I think if the first 3 signings had been people Warburton wasn't familiar with then this would be looked at in a different light. As you say it should be a mix, but it's beginning to look more like a trend. |
Can we knock this idea on the head that Warburton knew Barbet now? He never managed him. He came after Warburton left.
3 of the six he's worked with before. Barbet looks more of a Penrice signing to me. The two Prem youngsters will certainly have been well known by Johnson and Penrice.
Let's calm down a bit. |  |
| |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:35 - Jul 3 with 3352 views | Wokingham_r |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:13 - Jul 3 by Antti_Heinola |
Can we knock this idea on the head that Warburton knew Barbet now? He never managed him. He came after Warburton left.
3 of the six he's worked with before. Barbet looks more of a Penrice signing to me. The two Prem youngsters will certainly have been well known by Johnson and Penrice.
Let's calm down a bit. |
Who's Johnson? |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:39 - Jul 3 with 3344 views | flitwickhoop |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:35 - Jul 3 by Wokingham_r |
Who's Johnson? |
Mel Johnson | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:41 - Jul 3 with 3337 views | Northernr |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:35 - Jul 3 by Wokingham_r |
Who's Johnson? |
 | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:52 - Jul 3 with 3304 views | rsonist |
Barbet as Penrice coup is a bit of a reach... he was one of the most high profile and relatively accomplished defenders out of contract at this level regardless of whether Warburton had any prior involvement.
There ought to be no real reason Penrice and Warburton wouldn't be on the same page though. I feel like with Penrice it's a possibility that, with so little wiggle room to spend, to have done things his way we needed to be lining up out of contract players long before the summer, as with Freeman. It may be that now we know who's gone and how much money we have for them in hand we can actually move on Penrice's suggestions. Barbet and the Prem kids are very feasibly a better option than anyone we could afford , who's available, who can do an immediate job right this minute so I guess maybe we'll see with the strikers. It would be nice to think we had other ideas than spending a bit too much a bit too late on loaning Hogan and getting Kaziah Sterling on loan.
Anyway daveB's post is more than reasonable. I'm trying not to say the word hindsight every time on here but Norwich came 1st doing it one way and Sheff United 2nd doing the exact opposite, both equally impressive. The only watchword is cohesion - unless results don't happen and then actually the men upstairs should have kept a safe responsible distance all along.
Obviously we're particularly sensitive to being mugged off after what's happened to us. Joorabchian, Taffia, Evil Spurs mafia, Warbs backhander racket, they're all hiding under the bed.
Norf's piece is very well pitched between potential red flag and paranoid insignificance. The only thing about Ball that bugs me is the two year contract. |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:55 - Jul 3 with 3297 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:52 - Jul 3 by rsonist |
Barbet as Penrice coup is a bit of a reach... he was one of the most high profile and relatively accomplished defenders out of contract at this level regardless of whether Warburton had any prior involvement.
There ought to be no real reason Penrice and Warburton wouldn't be on the same page though. I feel like with Penrice it's a possibility that, with so little wiggle room to spend, to have done things his way we needed to be lining up out of contract players long before the summer, as with Freeman. It may be that now we know who's gone and how much money we have for them in hand we can actually move on Penrice's suggestions. Barbet and the Prem kids are very feasibly a better option than anyone we could afford , who's available, who can do an immediate job right this minute so I guess maybe we'll see with the strikers. It would be nice to think we had other ideas than spending a bit too much a bit too late on loaning Hogan and getting Kaziah Sterling on loan.
Anyway daveB's post is more than reasonable. I'm trying not to say the word hindsight every time on here but Norwich came 1st doing it one way and Sheff United 2nd doing the exact opposite, both equally impressive. The only watchword is cohesion - unless results don't happen and then actually the men upstairs should have kept a safe responsible distance all along.
Obviously we're particularly sensitive to being mugged off after what's happened to us. Joorabchian, Taffia, Evil Spurs mafia, Warbs backhander racket, they're all hiding under the bed.
Norf's piece is very well pitched between potential red flag and paranoid insignificance. The only thing about Ball that bugs me is the two year contract. |
Good post. But the Penrice thing is not 'a reach'. It's literally his job to look for players like him. OK, he's not an undiscovered gem, but it is his job to find players like him who we can nick for free. | |
| |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 11:16 - Jul 3 with 3265 views | rsonist |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 10:55 - Jul 3 by Antti_Heinola |
Good post. But the Penrice thing is not 'a reach'. It's literally his job to look for players like him. OK, he's not an undiscovered gem, but it is his job to find players like him who we can nick for free. |
Yeah I mean, fine, all signings will likely in some way coincide with the scouting dept that Penrice is nominally/ostensibly a part of. But we're talking about the differences between recruitment strategies that each piece in the jigsaw represents - and Barbet is little different to Les picking up Bidwell, Lynch, Cousins. It seems iffy rhetoric to emphasise Penrice in particular there. | | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 11:27 - Jul 3 with 3240 views | robith |
I think it's right to be cautious given past failings, but also the system shouldn't be just the head coach being dictated to.
If in my team at work I had a role that needed filling and someone else said "I know this person who'd be great", it'd be pretty petty to not even interview them, but foolish to just give them the job.
We need a fair few players after the releases, and have mostly been replacing them with younger, cheaper models. So the risk of them needing discarding is smaller than we've had previously. Overall, I'm feeling like it could be a fun season? Cue Warbs sacked by October and us finishing bottom |  | | |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 11:38 - Jul 3 with 3221 views | TheChef |
| Ball arrival raises old recruitment questions — Signing on 11:27 - Jul 3 by robith |
I think it's right to be cautious given past failings, but also the system shouldn't be just the head coach being dictated to.
If in my team at work I had a role that needed filling and someone else said "I know this person who'd be great", it'd be pretty petty to not even interview them, but foolish to just give them the job.
We need a fair few players after the releases, and have mostly been replacing them with younger, cheaper models. So the risk of them needing discarding is smaller than we've had previously. Overall, I'm feeling like it could be a fun season? Cue Warbs sacked by October and us finishing bottom |
Exactly, it's a two-way street. Unlike under McClaren who disregarded the suggestions from Penrice et al, and insisted on only signing players he knew (and inevitably were more pricey).
Or is this the same thing now with Warbo??
 |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
