| Theresa May 15:28 - May 25 with 7906 views | Shun |
Just because this place hasn’t seen a lively debate in a while, what does everyone make of her resignation?
While I feel that ultimately her legacy will be one of failure, I do have a tremendous amount of sympathy for her. So did she let down the country, or was she let down by her party? |  | | |  |
| Theresa May on 15:48 - May 25 with 5177 views | electricblue |
The way i see it.
Theresa May failed for many reasons and the past 12mths as proved she isnt a leader at time a of utter importance as the referendum and how to deal with leaving the EU..
But Theresa May isnt alone in all of this the whole house of commons should hang their heads in shame.
Being the figure head of the government and party leader is something you cannot win with..
Do I sympathise with her!!!!!
Hell no she made her bad choice in her proposal of a deal to the house and it was not once or twice she tried but reluctently she as fallen on her sword....
Theresa May may be a fine MP but as leader who made life harder for herself with her uturns on policies that proved to people in her own party she was weak....
[Post edited 26 May 2019 9:44]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Theresa May on 18:28 - May 25 with 5079 views | D_Alien |
Good OP and reply
A while ago i posted that history will be kinder to TM than current reportage would seem to indicate. I partially changed my mind, because i agree she isn't what the country needed, but i also suspect we've learnt a lot about ourselves and the changes that need to be made during this period which mightn't have happened otherwise. She's honest, sincere and determined, but limited. Can't fault her for that
Overall, i stand by my original judgement. She was dealt a deck of cards unlike anything before, and most men would've crumbled well before she did |  |
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| Theresa May on 18:41 - May 25 with 5049 views | judd |
| Theresa May on 18:28 - May 25 by D_Alien |
Good OP and reply
A while ago i posted that history will be kinder to TM than current reportage would seem to indicate. I partially changed my mind, because i agree she isn't what the country needed, but i also suspect we've learnt a lot about ourselves and the changes that need to be made during this period which mightn't have happened otherwise. She's honest, sincere and determined, but limited. Can't fault her for that
Overall, i stand by my original judgement. She was dealt a deck of cards unlike anything before, and most men would've crumbled well before she did |
She took on the challenge of delivering a democratic vote to leave the EU. She failed spectacularly. She called an election in haste and total bad judgement. Irrespective of her personal attributes, she appears to me to have had no desire whatsoever to deliver the will of the majority, despite how some might think how right or wrong the Brexiters are.
Reminds me of Sunderland at home. |  |
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| Theresa May on 18:45 - May 25 with 5041 views | D_Alien |
| Theresa May on 18:41 - May 25 by judd |
She took on the challenge of delivering a democratic vote to leave the EU. She failed spectacularly. She called an election in haste and total bad judgement. Irrespective of her personal attributes, she appears to me to have had no desire whatsoever to deliver the will of the majority, despite how some might think how right or wrong the Brexiters are.
Reminds me of Sunderland at home. |
Ha! Good analogy
(Don't mean that in an anal way)
You've summed up pretty well what I meant by 'limited' | |
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| Theresa May on 18:47 - May 25 with 5036 views | judd |
| Theresa May on 18:45 - May 25 by D_Alien |
Ha! Good analogy
(Don't mean that in an anal way)
You've summed up pretty well what I meant by 'limited' |
I simply meant to build on your reasoned opinion whilst adding my own twist of tvvattishness. | |
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| Theresa May on 18:51 - May 25 with 5022 views | SuddenLad |
We'll only know how bad she was, (or otherwise) when we see how, or if, the next PM fares any better. It's by no means guaranteed. There is no easy solution and changing the PM isn't necessarily going to make any difference. The old arguments and obstacles are still there.
The whole Brexit farrago has stifled domestic politics, to the detriment of us all, and the intransigence of many of those involved in the complex Brexit negotiations has ultimately brought an end to her reign. Many MP's have worked for this moment, intentionally being obstructive, simply to bring about her demise. Step forward Mr. Speaker.......along with your cabal of back-stabbers.
Mrs. May is/was a dedicated, conscientious and determined PM who had the worst crisis since Suez thrust upon her. Considering her major health issues, she has stood up to the punishing schedule remarkably well.
Did she make mistakes, - probably - but politically, the country is entirely uncharted territory. I am by no means certain that we will be any better off by changing the PM, but she gave it her best shot. Like her, or loathe her, you can't ask for more. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Theresa May on 18:51 - May 25 with 5022 views | D_Alien |
| Theresa May on 18:47 - May 25 by judd |
I simply meant to build on your reasoned opinion whilst adding my own twist of tvvattishness. |
Much appreciated
How the fook i managed summat resembling a reasoned opinion after a liquid lunch I'll never know | |
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| Theresa May on 19:11 - May 25 with 4974 views | judd |
| Theresa May on 18:51 - May 25 by SuddenLad |
We'll only know how bad she was, (or otherwise) when we see how, or if, the next PM fares any better. It's by no means guaranteed. There is no easy solution and changing the PM isn't necessarily going to make any difference. The old arguments and obstacles are still there.
The whole Brexit farrago has stifled domestic politics, to the detriment of us all, and the intransigence of many of those involved in the complex Brexit negotiations has ultimately brought an end to her reign. Many MP's have worked for this moment, intentionally being obstructive, simply to bring about her demise. Step forward Mr. Speaker.......along with your cabal of back-stabbers.
Mrs. May is/was a dedicated, conscientious and determined PM who had the worst crisis since Suez thrust upon her. Considering her major health issues, she has stood up to the punishing schedule remarkably well.
Did she make mistakes, - probably - but politically, the country is entirely uncharted territory. I am by no means certain that we will be any better off by changing the PM, but she gave it her best shot. Like her, or loathe her, you can't ask for more. |
A faint heart never fooked a pig.
The complexity of negotiations was because of the appointment of weak negotiators. The EU saw May as a weak leader with no mandate from the voting populous as PM, and herself an avowed remainer.
It has been farcical and she led it. | |
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| Theresa May on 19:24 - May 25 with 4943 views | SuddenLad |
Yes, she led it, agreed.
Until we see what anyone else does, we can't judge her. The EU negotiators will shift position with the specific intent of making life difficult for the UK, simply for having the temerity to vote 'Leave'.
The EU wants to give us a good kicking as a deterrent to others, notably the Netherlands who are keen to follow suit.
Weak negotiators maybe, but as this EU farce rolls on, it won't get any easier, or any better and the likely outcome is out without a deal.
Whether that is good or bad, remains to be seen, but it doesn't require negotiations, other than a 'two-fingered salute'. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Theresa May on 19:30 - May 25 with 4931 views | judd |
| Theresa May on 19:24 - May 25 by SuddenLad |
Yes, she led it, agreed.
Until we see what anyone else does, we can't judge her. The EU negotiators will shift position with the specific intent of making life difficult for the UK, simply for having the temerity to vote 'Leave'.
The EU wants to give us a good kicking as a deterrent to others, notably the Netherlands who are keen to follow suit.
Weak negotiators maybe, but as this EU farce rolls on, it won't get any easier, or any better and the likely outcome is out without a deal.
Whether that is good or bad, remains to be seen, but it doesn't require negotiations, other than a 'two-fingered salute'. |
Wonderfully reasoned and respected from me.
I am a two fingers up guy, though. Ahem!
When the electorate voted out and the government put in place a remainer the EU cabal detected weakness.
May was always the wrong choice of PM to deliver the will of the majority in the referendum.
Cameron was an even bigger failure in not having an exit strategy , such was his pompous belief that the proletariat couldn't beat the established order. | |
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| Theresa May on 19:34 - May 25 with 4919 views | 49thseason |
| Theresa May on 18:51 - May 25 by SuddenLad |
We'll only know how bad she was, (or otherwise) when we see how, or if, the next PM fares any better. It's by no means guaranteed. There is no easy solution and changing the PM isn't necessarily going to make any difference. The old arguments and obstacles are still there.
The whole Brexit farrago has stifled domestic politics, to the detriment of us all, and the intransigence of many of those involved in the complex Brexit negotiations has ultimately brought an end to her reign. Many MP's have worked for this moment, intentionally being obstructive, simply to bring about her demise. Step forward Mr. Speaker.......along with your cabal of back-stabbers.
Mrs. May is/was a dedicated, conscientious and determined PM who had the worst crisis since Suez thrust upon her. Considering her major health issues, she has stood up to the punishing schedule remarkably well.
Did she make mistakes, - probably - but politically, the country is entirely uncharted territory. I am by no means certain that we will be any better off by changing the PM, but she gave it her best shot. Like her, or loathe her, you can't ask for more. |
Au Contraire mon ami. Three years with a Government tied in knots with Brexit has been 3 years without them trying to bugger up the rest of the UK. As a consequence, the economy is doing quite well, the stock market has been fairly resilient, employment is up, unemployment is down. There has been no decision to spend a fortune on HS2, no war to speak of, virtually no strikes and the inherent incompetence of elected officials has been effectively muzzled. whats not to like? |  | | |
| Theresa May on 19:35 - May 25 with 4922 views | soulboy |
She called a general election on the assumption that she would romp home with a huge majority. When this didnt happen, she had to grovel to the DUP to prop her government up at a cost of God knows what. Her tenure was littered with gaffs and her inabality to keep the right wing rabble in check. Add to this her stubborness over Brexit has let to the shambolic situation we are now in. Her final speech yesterday where she talked about compromise beggared belief. Who knows which clown the Tories inflict on us now, old Etonian bumbling Boris or McVey the witch who mislead pariament over Universal Credit. Into the abyss we go. |  | | |
| Theresa May on 19:40 - May 25 with 4904 views | SuddenLad |
| Theresa May on 19:30 - May 25 by judd |
Wonderfully reasoned and respected from me.
I am a two fingers up guy, though. Ahem!
When the electorate voted out and the government put in place a remainer the EU cabal detected weakness.
May was always the wrong choice of PM to deliver the will of the majority in the referendum.
Cameron was an even bigger failure in not having an exit strategy , such was his pompous belief that the proletariat couldn't beat the established order. |
It was Cameron who dropped us all in the swamp. Promised a referendum to ensure a return to power and then beggared off, leaving others to deal with the mayhem it caused.
Took the easy option, along with some of his cohorts and sought a life outside politics, laughing all the way to the bank..... | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Theresa May on 19:44 - May 25 with 4899 views | frenzied |
Cameron started this debacle..no plan as never considered that leave would win.
May foolishly called a general election that misfired.
I’ve no confidence in the present runners for Mays old job.
Another election?...still can’t see Corbyn winning that either.
All in all ...a no deal brexit awaits I think |  | | |
| Theresa May on 20:00 - May 25 with 4879 views | jonahwhereru |
David Cameron’s inability to contain his EU sceptic backbenchers got us into this divisive maelstrom in the first place. So TM is not the first Tory leader who could not direct and lead her own troops.
She got the worst hand to play since the Second World War, exacerbated by losing her majority. To her credit she had the constitution of an Ox and gave the job all she had. It was never going to be enough.
Moving on the new incumbent they have an interesting dilemma. To go to the country or not. Certainly leaving with no deal when absolutely no one knows the extent and length of the economic consequences will be a gamble. They will only have 3 years to repair the damage and sweeten the electorate with tax cuts before the next election.
I would take a bit of 13/8 we are still in the EU by the end of the year, provided Macron’s party don’t get trashed this weekend. In which case it will be October with no deal. In which case Ireland will be completely fcfked. | | | |
| Theresa May on 23:23 - May 25 with 4747 views | Shun |
| Theresa May on 18:51 - May 25 by SuddenLad |
We'll only know how bad she was, (or otherwise) when we see how, or if, the next PM fares any better. It's by no means guaranteed. There is no easy solution and changing the PM isn't necessarily going to make any difference. The old arguments and obstacles are still there.
The whole Brexit farrago has stifled domestic politics, to the detriment of us all, and the intransigence of many of those involved in the complex Brexit negotiations has ultimately brought an end to her reign. Many MP's have worked for this moment, intentionally being obstructive, simply to bring about her demise. Step forward Mr. Speaker.......along with your cabal of back-stabbers.
Mrs. May is/was a dedicated, conscientious and determined PM who had the worst crisis since Suez thrust upon her. Considering her major health issues, she has stood up to the punishing schedule remarkably well.
Did she make mistakes, - probably - but politically, the country is entirely uncharted territory. I am by no means certain that we will be any better off by changing the PM, but she gave it her best shot. Like her, or loathe her, you can't ask for more. |
Your second paragraph is the most upsetting for me. We’ve had three years now of near-constant focus on Brexit, and it makes you wonder without the vast amounts of time and money spent on dragging it out what else could have been achieved domestically? | | | |
| Theresa May on 00:05 - May 26 with 4711 views | rochdale_ranger |
As Home Secretary she was quite happy for jihadists from the U.K. to go back to Libya and overthrow the government there ( one came back and blew a load of women and kids up at the Manchester Arena)
She oversaw the wind rush scandal and all the racist nonsense that went with that then made amber Rudd take the rap for it only to invite her back into cabinet a few months later because of her own lack of support within her own cabinet.
She called an election which didn’t need to be called and did not even bother to campaign as she thought her pals in the right wing media would do a good enough job of flinging enough muck at Jeremy Corbyn to put her over. She failed miserably.
She was never a brexiteer and was put in place to hold the Tory party together after the referendum (labour also had squabbles and recriminations after the referendum and held a leadership contest remember? ) everything the Conservative party have done since the referendum has been for the good of the Conservative party not the nation.
May will go down as a terrible Home Secretary and an empty suit of a PM. Worse is yet to come with Boris the clown Johnson. For further proof look at his record as mayor of London. |  | | |
| Theresa May on 10:20 - May 26 with 4562 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Theresa May on 19:30 - May 25 by judd |
Wonderfully reasoned and respected from me.
I am a two fingers up guy, though. Ahem!
When the electorate voted out and the government put in place a remainer the EU cabal detected weakness.
May was always the wrong choice of PM to deliver the will of the majority in the referendum.
Cameron was an even bigger failure in not having an exit strategy , such was his pompous belief that the proletariat couldn't beat the established order. |
Intellectually robust post (you’ll go far my boy) and to all others who don’t disagree with me - you have my blessing.
I would, however, add that not one leave campaigner, not even the ERG, countenanced leaving without a deal. If they had they wouldn’t have stood a chance. May was enacting on the majority’s will. She tried to leave with a deal. The no deal idea has emerged much later and it has its roots in the failure of the leave campaign’s promise that we would have it all our own way and get a great deal and some Parliamentary arithmetic. The tragedy of all this is that instead of saying you lying pieces of sh1t, some leavers are re-writing history and saying the referendum represents a mandate to leave without a deal. Leave means leave is the stupidly simplistic rallying call.
Most people voted to leave on the promise that there would be a deal.
It will end in either a general election (which if pitched against a no deal Tory Party and a people vote or remain Labour Party, the latter will win). Or another referendum between no deal and remain, which remain will win.
I stand by my original judgment that I am always right. | |
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| Theresa May on 10:35 - May 26 with 4535 views | JimmyRustler |
She knew what she was getting herself into, took the job simply to get her name in lights and paid the price. However, I can't really blame her for that and I thought that until a few days ago, she had carried out her role with a great deal of dignity and respect.
HOWEVER, her pathetic, desperate attempt to force through her deal with the inclusion of the second referendum guff changed all that and she lost me. |  | | |
| Theresa May on 11:01 - May 26 with 4508 views | off2div1 |
Now the candidates are now throwing their caps in the ring. As NO deal is being mentioned.How will this happen,will parliment not stop that happening. |  | | |
| Theresa May on 11:30 - May 26 with 4476 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Theresa May on 11:01 - May 26 by off2div1 |
Now the candidates are now throwing their caps in the ring. As NO deal is being mentioned.How will this happen,will parliment not stop that happening. |
It depends. They could but they will need another option to replace it and an ardent Brexiter PM /cabinet could simply not pursue a deal or ask the EU for another extension. It also may not be binding on the government. In which case we would leave on 31 October with no deal. Although Parliament could vote to revoke Article 50 instead but again that may not be legally binding on the government. So, even if Parliament votes against no deal, it would not necessarily stop it. However, what could happen is that anti no-deal Tories and every other party (save the DUP) could support a vote of no confidence in the government. If the government loses then this will automatically trigger a general election, and it is likely that the EU would grant us an extension pending the result of that.
It’s all very well the likes of Johnson and Raab saying they will crash the UK out on WTO terms but the real proof in the pudding will be how they propose to do that. If they answer that question they’ll become more and more vulnerable. Expect fudge. | |
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| Theresa May on 14:03 - May 26 with 4397 views | SuddenLad |
| Theresa May on 10:35 - May 26 by JimmyRustler |
She knew what she was getting herself into, took the job simply to get her name in lights and paid the price. However, I can't really blame her for that and I thought that until a few days ago, she had carried out her role with a great deal of dignity and respect.
HOWEVER, her pathetic, desperate attempt to force through her deal with the inclusion of the second referendum guff changed all that and she lost me. |
How could she possibly have known how things were going to evolve once negotiations started??
Certain interested and involved parties have altered their standpoint as things have continued, specifically to stymie any progress. She has been mired amongst a nest of vipers and I'm not convinced anyone will succeed (with any degree of improvement) where she failed.
The easiest thing for anyone to do is tell the EU to 'eff off', simply leave with no meaningful deal of any kind and then say, 'there you are, success at last'.
Time will tell, but it's hardly 'negotiating' is it ?
And let's remember, this is only phase one. This is simply agreeing the mechanism of HOW we leave the EU. The real nitty-gritty discussions about what happens afterwards and our future relationship with the EU, haven't even begun yet !!
There will be people negotiating in years to come, who are still at school ! | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Theresa May on 15:17 - May 26 with 4361 views | JimmyRustler |
| Theresa May on 14:03 - May 26 by SuddenLad |
How could she possibly have known how things were going to evolve once negotiations started??
Certain interested and involved parties have altered their standpoint as things have continued, specifically to stymie any progress. She has been mired amongst a nest of vipers and I'm not convinced anyone will succeed (with any degree of improvement) where she failed.
The easiest thing for anyone to do is tell the EU to 'eff off', simply leave with no meaningful deal of any kind and then say, 'there you are, success at last'.
Time will tell, but it's hardly 'negotiating' is it ?
And let's remember, this is only phase one. This is simply agreeing the mechanism of HOW we leave the EU. The real nitty-gritty discussions about what happens afterwards and our future relationship with the EU, haven't even begun yet !!
There will be people negotiating in years to come, who are still at school ! |
It was clear from the off that the establishment and the EU themselves were going to be as obtuse as possible when it came to the delivery of Brexit. Add into the mix that she is a remainer and was therefore always going to get it in the neck if things went wrong (which they were almost certain to) and it was just a big shit sandwich. This was never going to be a smooth or easy ride and anyone who thought so was simply kidding themselves. Despite this being Cameron's "mess", whoever was first past the post and in charge for the first round of negotiations was a sitting duck. It's likely that she then mulled it over and come to the conclusion that it was worth the crucifixion in order to get her name forever etched in the history books. And boy did she manage that.
I'm not really knocking her per se. As I say, the only snide thing IMO was include the 2nd referendum option in her final attempt to get her deal through. So much for standing by your principles and delivering what the people want.. [Post edited 26 May 2019 15:18]
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| Theresa May on 15:59 - May 26 with 4319 views | James1980 |
I would like to say the country is all the better for her strong and stable leadership.
But I would be lying.
At least we didn't have a coalition of chaos. Oh actually hang on | |
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