| Seems a lost cause but..... 14:20 - Feb 24 with 3690 views | BillyRudd |
I am still in favour of sticking with KH. Thats not with any great enthusiasm and perhaps over the years I have been conditioned to expect him to pull something out of the hat. However leaving aside the financial aspects of a sacking primarily because non of us know the true cost of that in terms of £sd, I feel any advantageous opportunity has now been missed. Surely any firing and hiring should have been prior to the January transfer window. It was our one remaining chance of rescuing the current situation and sadly it looks as if it has gone. So the die is now cast until the end of the season and the only rational reaction is to get behind the current squad and give them our best support and see if we can get some positivity back, because woe is me, feeling sorry for ourselves and infighting among the supporters is only going to fulfill our fears.I fully understand how difficult that would be for many who write on this forum given our managers personality, but the reality is asset or liability we are stuck with him for the here and now. Anyone who thinks he will somehow walk away at no cost really do need a reality check.
Having said the above, I do however have some real concerns about our managers tenure medium to long term. It has struck me several times this season that events that have been commented upon during games with my compatriots have been subsequently echoed on this forum from numerous different contributors. Ok we are all armchair managers but I am talking fundamentals that seem glaringly obvious to many. Examples that spring to mind are Dooleys corner kicks and playing Andrew wide. Both became points of derision immediately after games.However what rings greater alarm bells for me in the medium to long term is the increasing number of times that players arrive at the club and initially impress, only for us to revert back to being disappointed with them and the team performances. Its a recurring theme now. Is it Hills constant chopping and changing such that there is no time to build up understanding between players, playing players out of position? Is he constraining players with do,s and don,ts such that any natural instincts are lost? Is he asking for a style of play that given there are two teams on the pitch often fails because they can,t change from "the plan"? Is it that players arrive full of enthusiasm but given Hills perceived personae some then wished they had,nt? I have no idea but something strikes me as not being right and certainly feels different from the glory years. I don,t buy the budget for players argument. Obviously we cannot compete with the Sunderlands of this world but if it is true that Hill had an increased budget this year then it has only been reflected in an even greater churn of players rather than a mid table stable squad for which I am sure that right now we would all gladly settle for.
My biggest fear is that if Hill does take us down to Lge 2 and given the contractual situation is still with us, then a continuation of the last two seasons will see us looking at the non-league trap door. For now he,s my man and in Hilly we trust but medium term sadly I have lost faith.
Up the Dale
ps Does you good to get it off your chest. |  | | |  |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 15:48 - Feb 24 with 3556 views | 49thseason |
What is it about budgets you don't buy?
We sold season tickets for as little £150. We are playing in a league with an AVERAGE gate of 8529 and getting an average of 3414 for our home games which means that even clubs getting 5000 supporters at home will attract 37000 more fans than us over the season - My guess would be that we are £2m a season adrift of what is required to be competitive in L1 given that there are only 2 clubs in the top 12 with lower crowds than us (Burton and Fleetwood) and none in the top 7 attracting less than 7000.
The gamble that cheaper tickets would mean bigger crowds has hardly been an unmitigated success. but has probably brought in more money than a poor season in L1 without the offer. So the decision to get as much cash in at the start of the season was a good one. Not many would still be paying £17 or £12 to attend games without a season ticket.
Make no mistake, the club expected to be relegated this season, we had a good transfer window in January in as much as we pulled in more money than anticipated for 3 players and only spent money on 1. most of the players on big (for us) wages will be out of contract at the end of this season. We can go into L2 with some cash and a clear out, ready to rebuild. Some of the kids will be OK for L2 and will become easier to sell as a result of the experience. Clearly, they cannot cope with L1 straight from the academy.
There were some clues dropped over the last year by the board and indeed by KH eg. the new Chairman " I have spoken to KH and he is onside with our plans". KH at the start the season " I now have to rebuild the squad" Couple these with the departure of Dunphy, and the reappointment of Kelly who has been responsible for the academy in the past and who previously left for no apparent reason and there has clearly been a difference of opinion in the boardroom. The main plank of the clubs strategy has been to develop young talent, if we can't do that in L1 we will be better doing it in L2 and allowing the kids to grow into proper footballers in a more forgiving environment. Relegation may be a necessary part of the process of growing the whole club rather than just spending increasing amounts patching up what already exists. I look forward to the day when we field 11 homegrown players. |  | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 16:06 - Feb 24 with 3508 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 15:48 - Feb 24 by 49thseason |
What is it about budgets you don't buy?
We sold season tickets for as little £150. We are playing in a league with an AVERAGE gate of 8529 and getting an average of 3414 for our home games which means that even clubs getting 5000 supporters at home will attract 37000 more fans than us over the season - My guess would be that we are £2m a season adrift of what is required to be competitive in L1 given that there are only 2 clubs in the top 12 with lower crowds than us (Burton and Fleetwood) and none in the top 7 attracting less than 7000.
The gamble that cheaper tickets would mean bigger crowds has hardly been an unmitigated success. but has probably brought in more money than a poor season in L1 without the offer. So the decision to get as much cash in at the start of the season was a good one. Not many would still be paying £17 or £12 to attend games without a season ticket.
Make no mistake, the club expected to be relegated this season, we had a good transfer window in January in as much as we pulled in more money than anticipated for 3 players and only spent money on 1. most of the players on big (for us) wages will be out of contract at the end of this season. We can go into L2 with some cash and a clear out, ready to rebuild. Some of the kids will be OK for L2 and will become easier to sell as a result of the experience. Clearly, they cannot cope with L1 straight from the academy.
There were some clues dropped over the last year by the board and indeed by KH eg. the new Chairman " I have spoken to KH and he is onside with our plans". KH at the start the season " I now have to rebuild the squad" Couple these with the departure of Dunphy, and the reappointment of Kelly who has been responsible for the academy in the past and who previously left for no apparent reason and there has clearly been a difference of opinion in the boardroom. The main plank of the clubs strategy has been to develop young talent, if we can't do that in L1 we will be better doing it in L2 and allowing the kids to grow into proper footballers in a more forgiving environment. Relegation may be a necessary part of the process of growing the whole club rather than just spending increasing amounts patching up what already exists. I look forward to the day when we field 11 homegrown players. |
Well he has certainly rebuilt the squad, from one that just survived to one that is doomed. If we wanted to be relegated from day one, we wouldn’t have given contracts to the likes of wilbraham and Perkins , they were a gamble that didn’t pay off, and an expensive one |  |
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| Seems a lost cause but..... on 21:59 - Feb 24 with 3318 views | BillyRudd |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 15:48 - Feb 24 by 49thseason |
What is it about budgets you don't buy?
We sold season tickets for as little £150. We are playing in a league with an AVERAGE gate of 8529 and getting an average of 3414 for our home games which means that even clubs getting 5000 supporters at home will attract 37000 more fans than us over the season - My guess would be that we are £2m a season adrift of what is required to be competitive in L1 given that there are only 2 clubs in the top 12 with lower crowds than us (Burton and Fleetwood) and none in the top 7 attracting less than 7000.
The gamble that cheaper tickets would mean bigger crowds has hardly been an unmitigated success. but has probably brought in more money than a poor season in L1 without the offer. So the decision to get as much cash in at the start of the season was a good one. Not many would still be paying £17 or £12 to attend games without a season ticket.
Make no mistake, the club expected to be relegated this season, we had a good transfer window in January in as much as we pulled in more money than anticipated for 3 players and only spent money on 1. most of the players on big (for us) wages will be out of contract at the end of this season. We can go into L2 with some cash and a clear out, ready to rebuild. Some of the kids will be OK for L2 and will become easier to sell as a result of the experience. Clearly, they cannot cope with L1 straight from the academy.
There were some clues dropped over the last year by the board and indeed by KH eg. the new Chairman " I have spoken to KH and he is onside with our plans". KH at the start the season " I now have to rebuild the squad" Couple these with the departure of Dunphy, and the reappointment of Kelly who has been responsible for the academy in the past and who previously left for no apparent reason and there has clearly been a difference of opinion in the boardroom. The main plank of the clubs strategy has been to develop young talent, if we can't do that in L1 we will be better doing it in L2 and allowing the kids to grow into proper footballers in a more forgiving environment. Relegation may be a necessary part of the process of growing the whole club rather than just spending increasing amounts patching up what already exists. I look forward to the day when we field 11 homegrown players. |
49th If your figures are ballpark correct then I accept your point about being Lg1 competitive overall. However I was trying to make a different one. I was pointing out that our situation in a relegation battle is the same as last season inspite of an alleged increase in Hills budget. If that is the case, and I say if because I don,t know if that is true , then Hill has underperformed this season compared to last season. Unless of course everyone elses budget has increased. Perhaps thats part of the problem. An increased budget has given Hill more scope to constantly chop and change.I have to be honest though and admit that I have been watching Dale from the years when the idea of a squad of players the size of which we have now would have seemed ludicrous. Long gone are the days when a single team change would have precipitated lengthy pre match debate. Nowadays it would more likely to be a debate as to whatever happened to so and so as they seem to disappear into thin air Ie as per whats happened to the two Williams ? | | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 22:05 - Feb 24 with 3297 views | TVOS1907 |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 21:59 - Feb 24 by BillyRudd |
49th If your figures are ballpark correct then I accept your point about being Lg1 competitive overall. However I was trying to make a different one. I was pointing out that our situation in a relegation battle is the same as last season inspite of an alleged increase in Hills budget. If that is the case, and I say if because I don,t know if that is true , then Hill has underperformed this season compared to last season. Unless of course everyone elses budget has increased. Perhaps thats part of the problem. An increased budget has given Hill more scope to constantly chop and change.I have to be honest though and admit that I have been watching Dale from the years when the idea of a squad of players the size of which we have now would have seemed ludicrous. Long gone are the days when a single team change would have precipitated lengthy pre match debate. Nowadays it would more likely to be a debate as to whatever happened to so and so as they seem to disappear into thin air Ie as per whats happened to the two Williams ? |
MJ was sat in the away end yesterday |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Seems a lost cause but..... on 22:13 - Feb 24 with 3278 views | BillyRudd |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 22:05 - Feb 24 by TVOS1907 |
MJ was sat in the away end yesterday |
Thanks TVOS. No wonder it was 5-1 if he was playing that deep. | | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 23:33 - Feb 24 with 3177 views | 49thseason |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 16:06 - Feb 24 by rochdaleriddler |
Well he has certainly rebuilt the squad, from one that just survived to one that is doomed. If we wanted to be relegated from day one, we wouldn’t have given contracts to the likes of wilbraham and Perkins , they were a gamble that didn’t pay off, and an expensive one |
Yes, but as always, we dont know if thei Perkins and Wilbraham signings were what might have split the board? We presume Dunphy was OK with Hill signing them, maybe others on the Board disagreed and said they wanted them out in January? Certainly there was little in their performances that warranted signing them. Hence the difficulty of Dunphy's position
I think the major problem is that none of our kids have thrived in L1 and if they aren't in the shop window its hard to sell them. | | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 10:11 - Feb 25 with 2861 views | ParkinsGimp |
The board and the GME are planning for League 2 , which is a dangerous game to play , seeing as most of the players he has assembled are National League standard, look at McNulty , Andrew , Delaney to name but a few.
We will have less income coming in and could even go down again. | | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 10:23 - Feb 25 with 2840 views | EllDale |
We've never really been a sacking club and there's no-one at senior level who has experience of dismissing a football manager and recruiting another.
It was Chris Dunphy who fired FRMSE and Steve Parkin (the last two to be sacked) and he's gone.
Don't forget that this is the club that allegedly told John Hollins that his services were no required by fax! | | | |
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| Seems a lost cause but..... on 11:08 - Feb 25 with 2771 views | D_Alien |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 10:23 - Feb 25 by EllDale |
We've never really been a sacking club and there's no-one at senior level who has experience of dismissing a football manager and recruiting another.
It was Chris Dunphy who fired FRMSE and Steve Parkin (the last two to be sacked) and he's gone.
Don't forget that this is the club that allegedly told John Hollins that his services were no required by fax! |
AK? |  |
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| Seems a lost cause but..... on 12:13 - Feb 25 with 2719 views | electricblue |
So who sacked Coleman then!!!!!!! |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Seems a lost cause but..... on 12:29 - Feb 25 with 2689 views | EllDale |
Good point. It was Chris Dunphy who is no longer around.
In fact, does he even go to games anymore? | | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 16:20 - Feb 25 with 2523 views | electricblue |
Keeping his distance is CD and that may say something about the present board members..... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Seems a lost cause but..... on 19:05 - Feb 25 with 2326 views | nordenblue |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 16:20 - Feb 25 by electricblue |
Keeping his distance is CD and that may say something about the present board members..... |
Jackpot... nail and head | | | |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 19:05 - Feb 25 with 2320 views | nordenblue |
| Seems a lost cause but..... on 22:05 - Feb 24 by TVOS1907 |
MJ was sat in the away end yesterday |
Most of the team may aswell of sat with him TVOS | | | |
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