| Advice needed. 23:25 - Sep 17 with 6718 views | rochdale_ranger |
Wondering if any of you guys could help me. I’m having six points taken off my license for failing to name a driver in a motoring offence. The problem is I’ve worked for various different companies and used different rental vehicles since the original offence which I don’t yet know what that was as I didn’t receive notification of the original motoring offence.
Basically I’m supposed to have done something minor like run a red light or been papped speeding or somebody at one of the companies I’ve worked at has been driving the vehicle and stuck my name down to get out of the offence. Either way I haven’t received notification and have now been told I will receive six points on the back of failing to notify them who was driving at the time of an offence which I didn’t know was commited.
Does anybody have experience of the DVLA or appealing motoring offences in general? |  | | |  |
| Advice needed. on 23:46 - Sep 17 with 4190 views | steofthedale |
The best advice can be found at forums.pepipoo.com |  |
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| Advice needed. on 23:49 - Sep 17 with 4189 views | DaleiLama |
Not the same obviously, but I got done for going through a red light coming back up the A6 towards Stocky, where it meets the A523. Summat wrong with the sequencing of the lights + an accident meant 1-2 cars were getting through legally on Friday night at rush hour, so I nipped through just after the lights turned red when I got my chance. Got a ticket from GMP, appealed it and was sent camera footage of the incident and asked if I wanted to pay the fine or appeal it in court.
I guess you've been informed by DVLA? On that basis, I would go back to DVLA and ask which police force was involved then write to that force and ask for evidence of the offence. It's a starting point at least. Good luck in sorting it out. You and I don't have much luck with motoring it seems! |  |
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| Advice needed. on 23:59 - Sep 17 with 4171 views | rochdale_ranger |
Cheers Ste. And no luck whatsoever. If they were doing me for straight up running a light or a speeding camera I would say fair enough and take the three points it’s the fact that they are doing me for the offence of not naming the driver. I would of named the driver of the vehicle if I would have been notified in the first place. I never received a letter. Getting home at half seven and finding out I’m getting six points today for a mere formality and obvious mistake on their part and knowing all the hoops that I’m going to have to probably go through appealing etc is the pure annoyance of it all. | | | |
| Advice needed. on 00:01 - Sep 18 with 4163 views | D_Alien |
| Advice needed. on 23:49 - Sep 17 by DaleiLama |
Not the same obviously, but I got done for going through a red light coming back up the A6 towards Stocky, where it meets the A523. Summat wrong with the sequencing of the lights + an accident meant 1-2 cars were getting through legally on Friday night at rush hour, so I nipped through just after the lights turned red when I got my chance. Got a ticket from GMP, appealed it and was sent camera footage of the incident and asked if I wanted to pay the fine or appeal it in court.
I guess you've been informed by DVLA? On that basis, I would go back to DVLA and ask which police force was involved then write to that force and ask for evidence of the offence. It's a starting point at least. Good luck in sorting it out. You and I don't have much luck with motoring it seems! |
That's a bugger of a junction, especially turning right into the A523 off the A6 where two waiting lanes are filtered into one and it's like "who's going to risk having their car trashed" at rush hour
On the general point, i'd have thought it's a principle of the justice system that you can't be found guilty of an offence you haven't been properly notified about, and therefore can't defend? |  |
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| Advice needed. on 00:13 - Sep 18 with 4143 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Advice needed. on 00:01 - Sep 18 by D_Alien |
That's a bugger of a junction, especially turning right into the A523 off the A6 where two waiting lanes are filtered into one and it's like "who's going to risk having their car trashed" at rush hour
On the general point, i'd have thought it's a principle of the justice system that you can't be found guilty of an offence you haven't been properly notified about, and therefore can't defend? |
I’ve been reading some horror stories with regards to the DVLA where people have not been driving company vans but still had points taken off their licence.
It does make one laugh when a guy was assaulted up near the kingsway pub a few month ago by a bloke driving a firms vehicle and the police said it wasn’t worth investigating as he would of been hard to find and track down in a firms vehicle.
I’ll ring the DVLA tomorrow and see what they say and where I go with it next aswell as my old employer. | | | |
| Advice needed. on 09:34 - Sep 18 with 3868 views | dingdangblue |
Not the same thing but a few years ago when they were doing loads of roadworks around Victoria Station I followed a diversion at night in the pissing rain so visibility was horrendous and I was diverted down the bus lane near the front of the station. Not points but around £90 fine - I appealed but got nowhere - I also looked into the incident on Google and it seemed thousands of cars were caught around that time and hundreds of thousands of pounds of money was made. Good luck if you appeal. |  |
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| Advice needed. on 09:50 - Sep 18 with 3833 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 00:01 - Sep 18 by D_Alien |
That's a bugger of a junction, especially turning right into the A523 off the A6 where two waiting lanes are filtered into one and it's like "who's going to risk having their car trashed" at rush hour
On the general point, i'd have thought it's a principle of the justice system that you can't be found guilty of an offence you haven't been properly notified about, and therefore can't defend? |
If it had a TripAdvisor page, I'd rate it poor with 1*! I drive through it like a codger now.
As for the legality of this, the penalty has to be served to someone, which I'm guessing was your previous company Ranger. If they (or someone at the company) has named you but not sent the penalty to you, it seems like they may be guilty of an offence themselves? I know how Hendo would describe that!
This also begs the question who paid the fine as you clearly didn't. If the company (or someone) paid the fine on your behalf and named you when you weren't in the vehicle, it would appear they have really laid themselves open to prosecution or legal action. | |
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| Advice needed. on 12:19 - Sep 18 with 3702 views | windowsbug |
| Advice needed. on 09:50 - Sep 18 by DaleiLama |
If it had a TripAdvisor page, I'd rate it poor with 1*! I drive through it like a codger now.
As for the legality of this, the penalty has to be served to someone, which I'm guessing was your previous company Ranger. If they (or someone at the company) has named you but not sent the penalty to you, it seems like they may be guilty of an offence themselves? I know how Hendo would describe that!
This also begs the question who paid the fine as you clearly didn't. If the company (or someone) paid the fine on your behalf and named you when you weren't in the vehicle, it would appear they have really laid themselves open to prosecution or legal action. |
No offence to any one that has given advice is intended, but.....seek proper legal advice from a specialist solicitor. |  | | |
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| Advice needed. on 12:29 - Sep 18 with 3676 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 12:19 - Sep 18 by windowsbug |
No offence to any one that has given advice is intended, but.....seek proper legal advice from a specialist solicitor. |
I agree with this once the facts have been established and if it is appropriate. They haven't yet. I would always opt for an amicable solution if possible, as legal solutions are time-consuming and grief-inducing. | |
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| Advice needed. on 18:43 - Sep 18 with 3521 views | rochdale_ranger |
Rung the DVLA, the courts and got legal advice and representation. I have to go and make a statutory declaration at the magistrates this week so I can have my day in court to give my side of events.
Will cost me next to a grand possibly but I would spend that on a theory test, a test and lessons aswell as paying the eight hundred pound fine that has been issued. I’m a new driver you see so Sux points or more and your licence gets revoked within the first two years. | | | |
| Advice needed. on 18:57 - Sep 18 with 3501 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 18:43 - Sep 18 by rochdale_ranger |
Rung the DVLA, the courts and got legal advice and representation. I have to go and make a statutory declaration at the magistrates this week so I can have my day in court to give my side of events.
Will cost me next to a grand possibly but I would spend that on a theory test, a test and lessons aswell as paying the eight hundred pound fine that has been issued. I’m a new driver you see so Sux points or more and your licence gets revoked within the first two years. |
Presumably, when a third party is found to be liable, costs will be awarded in your favour? Still, 2 days out of work and nothing to gain from this. Pretty dirty deed to lay at your door. Good luck. | |
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| Advice needed. on 19:11 - Sep 18 with 3473 views | D_Alien |
| Advice needed. on 18:43 - Sep 18 by rochdale_ranger |
Rung the DVLA, the courts and got legal advice and representation. I have to go and make a statutory declaration at the magistrates this week so I can have my day in court to give my side of events.
Will cost me next to a grand possibly but I would spend that on a theory test, a test and lessons aswell as paying the eight hundred pound fine that has been issued. I’m a new driver you see so Sux points or more and your licence gets revoked within the first two years. |
You could add to that an horrendous hike in your insurance premiums for several years, if your appeal fails
Presumably the legal advice you've sought has been positive, since it's in no-one's interests to be resorting to a court hearing without a realistic chance of success
Still no guarantees of course, but good luck | |
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| Advice needed. on 19:15 - Sep 18 with 3464 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Advice needed. on 18:57 - Sep 18 by DaleiLama |
Presumably, when a third party is found to be liable, costs will be awarded in your favour? Still, 2 days out of work and nothing to gain from this. Pretty dirty deed to lay at your door. Good luck. |
I rung my former gaffer up today and basically it was sent to my old address as the ladies who work in the office hadn’t updated my details before I left. Just one of them things. To be honest the solicitor said it can cost between 250 plus vat to just over a grand plus vat so I may of been laying it on a little bit saying it will cost me a grand. How did you get on with your fine by the way did you end up appealing it? | | | |
| Advice needed. on 20:28 - Sep 18 with 3394 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 19:15 - Sep 18 by rochdale_ranger |
I rung my former gaffer up today and basically it was sent to my old address as the ladies who work in the office hadn’t updated my details before I left. Just one of them things. To be honest the solicitor said it can cost between 250 plus vat to just over a grand plus vat so I may of been laying it on a little bit saying it will cost me a grand. How did you get on with your fine by the way did you end up appealing it? |
Appealed it and 4 1/2 months later was sent a photograph. Story of my life. Very impressed with that level of efficiency too. I e-mailed the Chief Exec of Rochdale Council telling him exactly what I thought of his shItty revenue generation scheme by arbitrarily dropping cones on Sandy Lane whenever he pleased and with no warning signs and how it would discourage people from visiting the borough. Didn't get a reply. Cash strapped council mugs public. Shocker. | |
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| Advice needed. on 21:44 - Sep 18 with 3312 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Advice needed. on 20:28 - Sep 18 by DaleiLama |
Appealed it and 4 1/2 months later was sent a photograph. Story of my life. Very impressed with that level of efficiency too. I e-mailed the Chief Exec of Rochdale Council telling him exactly what I thought of his shItty revenue generation scheme by arbitrarily dropping cones on Sandy Lane whenever he pleased and with no warning signs and how it would discourage people from visiting the borough. Didn't get a reply. Cash strapped council mugs public. Shocker. |
They are a bunch of shitehawks. I do make it a habit now though to tell people parking along Sandy Lane that they will get a ticket. I usually get a blank look and get told “Ive parked here for years” | | | |
| Advice needed. on 13:25 - Sep 19 with 3169 views | Dickydaler |
| Advice needed. on 20:28 - Sep 18 by DaleiLama |
Appealed it and 4 1/2 months later was sent a photograph. Story of my life. Very impressed with that level of efficiency too. I e-mailed the Chief Exec of Rochdale Council telling him exactly what I thought of his shItty revenue generation scheme by arbitrarily dropping cones on Sandy Lane whenever he pleased and with no warning signs and how it would discourage people from visiting the borough. Didn't get a reply. Cash strapped council mugs public. Shocker. |
Glad you've raised the point about cones on Sandy Lane because it is one of my bugbears on match day. Not so much Sandy Lane from the club towards Roch Valley Way where the road is quite narrow, but between Willbutts Lane and the traffic lights at Edenfield Road.
I have parked along that stretch for many years and then all of a sudden a couple of years ago cones started appearing. Like I say, I can understand why the lower part of Sandy Lane is coned but not the top part where the road is at its widest. By doing this it puts more pressure on adjoining streets and is more likely to inconvenience residents. (The Sandy Lane houses have drive ways)
And even more ridiculous, at the Gillingham match there were no cones on the lower stretch but cones on the upper part. (Although I did arrive fairly early for that game and they might have put the cones down after I had past that part of Sandy Lane)
Does anyone know at whose direction the cones are positioned? Is it the clubs, the police or the council? | | | |
| Advice needed. on 15:15 - Sep 19 with 3068 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 13:25 - Sep 19 by Dickydaler |
Glad you've raised the point about cones on Sandy Lane because it is one of my bugbears on match day. Not so much Sandy Lane from the club towards Roch Valley Way where the road is quite narrow, but between Willbutts Lane and the traffic lights at Edenfield Road.
I have parked along that stretch for many years and then all of a sudden a couple of years ago cones started appearing. Like I say, I can understand why the lower part of Sandy Lane is coned but not the top part where the road is at its widest. By doing this it puts more pressure on adjoining streets and is more likely to inconvenience residents. (The Sandy Lane houses have drive ways)
And even more ridiculous, at the Gillingham match there were no cones on the lower stretch but cones on the upper part. (Although I did arrive fairly early for that game and they might have put the cones down after I had past that part of Sandy Lane)
Does anyone know at whose direction the cones are positioned? Is it the clubs, the police or the council? |
When folk park on the SL from ground to double yellows in direction of Cemmy, they always have two wheels on the kerb. Plenty of room for two double deckers to pass in opposite directions at the same time on the road and a wheelchair on the pavement if so required.
I am sure on the day I parked there, I arrived early for a drink/read the paper and there were no cones. I didn't have a picture and I can't prove it. I don't know who puts the cones down, but there seems to be no correlation between who we play (away attendance) and cones being dropped. On that basis I would say the council decides when. I strongly suspect it depends on if they have the people/time to do it on any given Saturday.
No part of this policy makes sense. If it was dangerous they would extend the double yellows back up to the ground and put no parking signage up. It's a money-making scheme to top the coffers up after Whitehall cut funding. Ranger summed them up perfectly up the page. | |
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| Advice needed. on 16:08 - Sep 19 with 3009 views | SuddenLad |
| Advice needed. on 15:15 - Sep 19 by DaleiLama |
When folk park on the SL from ground to double yellows in direction of Cemmy, they always have two wheels on the kerb. Plenty of room for two double deckers to pass in opposite directions at the same time on the road and a wheelchair on the pavement if so required.
I am sure on the day I parked there, I arrived early for a drink/read the paper and there were no cones. I didn't have a picture and I can't prove it. I don't know who puts the cones down, but there seems to be no correlation between who we play (away attendance) and cones being dropped. On that basis I would say the council decides when. I strongly suspect it depends on if they have the people/time to do it on any given Saturday.
No part of this policy makes sense. If it was dangerous they would extend the double yellows back up to the ground and put no parking signage up. It's a money-making scheme to top the coffers up after Whitehall cut funding. Ranger summed them up perfectly up the page. |
POLICE ‘NO WAITING‘ SIGNS
The Traffic Management Act 2004 makes provision for any person under the instructions of the police or highway authority to place ‘no waiting’ cones on highway indicating prohibitions or restrictions relating to vehicular traffic in order to prevent congestion or obstruction — power to maintain such a sign for a maximum period of 7 days or less from the time it was placed out.
Section 67 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1974 grants this power but only in extraordinary circumstances.
Only police officers can deal with drivers/riders who fail to comply with these cones — the offence is failing to conform to a traffic sign and is non-endorsable. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Advice needed. on 16:30 - Sep 19 with 2984 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 16:08 - Sep 19 by SuddenLad |
POLICE ‘NO WAITING‘ SIGNS
The Traffic Management Act 2004 makes provision for any person under the instructions of the police or highway authority to place ‘no waiting’ cones on highway indicating prohibitions or restrictions relating to vehicular traffic in order to prevent congestion or obstruction — power to maintain such a sign for a maximum period of 7 days or less from the time it was placed out.
Section 67 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1974 grants this power but only in extraordinary circumstances.
Only police officers can deal with drivers/riders who fail to comply with these cones — the offence is failing to conform to a traffic sign and is non-endorsable. |
Well, the Council dish out the tickets and payment confirmation came from "Revenues". The e-mail came from a bloke called D. Turpin.
Maybe just the cynic in me, but I suspect there is a blanket authority to put cones down for the whole season. I never park there anymore but pass by when I do park and I have been flabbergasted at the games they are dropped at and not dropped (by the council). Like I said, there has been no correlation between away following and cones. | |
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| Advice needed. on 10:18 - Sep 20 with 2782 views | DorsetDale |
Question. What happens if one doesn't pay? | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| Advice needed. on 10:44 - Sep 20 with 2763 views | DaleiLama |
| Advice needed. on 10:18 - Sep 20 by DorsetDale |
Question. What happens if one doesn't pay? |
In respect of the parking fine
"You can still take advantage of the reduced charge of £35.00 by paying within 14 days. Please note that this discounted rate is no longer available after 14 days and the charge will return to the original charge of £70 if payment is not received in time. "
"You may wait for a Notice to Owner to be served to the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. The Notice to Owner gives the keeper of the vehicle the opportunity to begin a formal appeal process — including a hearing before an independent adjudicator. However, once the Notice to Owner is issued the full Penalty Charge of £70 will be due and you will no longer be able to pay the £35.00. "
In my case, taking time off work to possibly save £35 or to double down my losses wasn't an option. I know Ranger was done either the same day or at a similar time for the same offence, as we exchanged PMs on the subject
As for Ranger's current predicament, his legal advice was to challenge this in court. Going against that would presumably end up in 6 points + a debt recovery action if he did nothing and didn't pay. Again not an option. [Post edited 20 Sep 2018 10:45]
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| Advice needed. on 11:04 - Sep 20 with 2728 views | DorsetDale |
| Advice needed. on 10:44 - Sep 20 by DaleiLama |
In respect of the parking fine
"You can still take advantage of the reduced charge of £35.00 by paying within 14 days. Please note that this discounted rate is no longer available after 14 days and the charge will return to the original charge of £70 if payment is not received in time. "
"You may wait for a Notice to Owner to be served to the Registered Keeper of the vehicle. The Notice to Owner gives the keeper of the vehicle the opportunity to begin a formal appeal process — including a hearing before an independent adjudicator. However, once the Notice to Owner is issued the full Penalty Charge of £70 will be due and you will no longer be able to pay the £35.00. "
In my case, taking time off work to possibly save £35 or to double down my losses wasn't an option. I know Ranger was done either the same day or at a similar time for the same offence, as we exchanged PMs on the subject
As for Ranger's current predicament, his legal advice was to challenge this in court. Going against that would presumably end up in 6 points + a debt recovery action if he did nothing and didn't pay. Again not an option. [Post edited 20 Sep 2018 10:45]
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Sorry, should have been clearer. In respect of penalty point offences ie speeding I agree as police are involved. Was speaking more about these pesky cones and similar revenue collection/theft including parking fines. Councils do not have powers to be handing out points on licences. They may issue summons for non payment but can't make you turn up at court, cops aren't (supposed) to get involved in civil offences.
For any of this to happen, they must have our consent, which they get when one signs any such document, if they don't have it they can do no more than send intimidatory mail that should be ignored. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| Advice needed. on 11:36 - Sep 20 with 2709 views | SuddenLad |
| Advice needed. on 11:04 - Sep 20 by DorsetDale |
Sorry, should have been clearer. In respect of penalty point offences ie speeding I agree as police are involved. Was speaking more about these pesky cones and similar revenue collection/theft including parking fines. Councils do not have powers to be handing out points on licences. They may issue summons for non payment but can't make you turn up at court, cops aren't (supposed) to get involved in civil offences.
For any of this to happen, they must have our consent, which they get when one signs any such document, if they don't have it they can do no more than send intimidatory mail that should be ignored. |
Be very careful with the 'should be ignored' phrase.
There are many parking companies who daily take people to court for failing to pay legally enforceable fines and to their cost, motorists can then be several HUNDREDS of pounds out of pocket afterwards.
Private parking is a matter of contract. Parking is permitted only under the circumstances and conditions set out in the notice(s) displayed at that location. If the signs have been placed legally (many have failed to seek planning permission, thereby rendering them illegal) then you are bound by the conditions if you choose to enter and park.
If ever a letter arrives with the heading 'Letter Before Action' you would be well advised to either pay up or seek urgent legal advice because you will quickly find tourself the subject of a CCJ. Whatever else you do, do not ignore it. If, after judgement, you then pay up within 28 days, the record will be expunged, if not, the debt remains on your credit file for seven years. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Advice needed. on 11:54 - Sep 20 with 2698 views | rochdale_ranger |
| Advice needed. on 11:04 - Sep 20 by DorsetDale |
Sorry, should have been clearer. In respect of penalty point offences ie speeding I agree as police are involved. Was speaking more about these pesky cones and similar revenue collection/theft including parking fines. Councils do not have powers to be handing out points on licences. They may issue summons for non payment but can't make you turn up at court, cops aren't (supposed) to get involved in civil offences.
For any of this to happen, they must have our consent, which they get when one signs any such document, if they don't have it they can do no more than send intimidatory mail that should be ignored. |
They would pass your debt on to a firm of bailiffs and the likelihood of you appearing on some naff Chanel five program about debt collectors that demonises people that get get into debt and the poor would increase. | | | |
| Advice needed. on 11:57 - Sep 20 with 2690 views | DorsetDale |
| Advice needed. on 11:36 - Sep 20 by SuddenLad |
Be very careful with the 'should be ignored' phrase.
There are many parking companies who daily take people to court for failing to pay legally enforceable fines and to their cost, motorists can then be several HUNDREDS of pounds out of pocket afterwards.
Private parking is a matter of contract. Parking is permitted only under the circumstances and conditions set out in the notice(s) displayed at that location. If the signs have been placed legally (many have failed to seek planning permission, thereby rendering them illegal) then you are bound by the conditions if you choose to enter and park.
If ever a letter arrives with the heading 'Letter Before Action' you would be well advised to either pay up or seek urgent legal advice because you will quickly find tourself the subject of a CCJ. Whatever else you do, do not ignore it. If, after judgement, you then pay up within 28 days, the record will be expunged, if not, the debt remains on your credit file for seven years. |
I'm talking about council issued notices. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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