| BA cabin crew/unite Union 13:19 - Dec 17 with 10658 views | loftboy |
Selfish bastards, not seeing my kids for the first time ever at Christmas, as a way of compensation I'm booked to fly to Berlin on Boxing Day, do they not realise that without customers they wouldn't have a job to strike over,zero sympathy from me, glorified bloody waitresses. |  |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 20:10 - Dec 19 with 1585 views | PunteR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 16:31 - Dec 19 by PlanetHonneywood |
Do you understand why people marched against say, poll tax or Iraq? Would it make it easier to understand if say, having struck a deal and agreed terms and conditions, the other side sought to renege or, if you'd done the work and the other party refused to pay, would you expect us to understand why you might seek redress in a court of law?
Perhaps enlightenment might also come from finding out what the strikers are aggrieved about before querying their motives. If we lose the right to strike then you might as well pack up and go home, because it's such actions that have brought us holidays with pay, better conditions that in many cases saw rates of death and injury decline, sick pay so on and so forth.
In my experience, folks strike for a valid reason and not for something trivial. |
I think we're talking about two different things.
Marching against war or demo's about human rights is one thing, strikes because train guards are being made redundant is another. Surely?
Whats this holiday and sick pay you speak of?
Like i said earlier maybe i look at things differently because i work for myself. But I'm always happy to be enlightened on here though PlanetHonneywood. :)
Maybe you can give me an example of a strike because of work conditions,that has improved society as a whole?
Like i said , i see using the public as leverage for their own personal cause principally wrong. If i dont get payed for a job, i dont park my ford transit van on the next door neighbours lawn and refuse to leave until i get payed. It might motivate my customer to pay me though.
As Loftboy illustrated , its not fair.
And just to add. We're not talking about all low payed workers. We're talking about workers who provide a service to the public yet use the public as leverage for their own gain. I would say 95% of minimum or low payed workers dont really have a say and just get on with the job. [Post edited 19 Dec 2016 23:34]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 23:34 - Dec 19 with 1510 views | isawqpratwcity |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:38 - Dec 19 by Hoop_Du_Jour |
I doubt you work with anybody. Too busy plotting your Christmas fortnight off because the egg yolks were too pale in the heavily subsidised canteen that you habituate half of your working day. |
Inhabit. |  |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 14:59 - Dec 20 with 1429 views | robith |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 20:10 - Dec 19 by PunteR |
I think we're talking about two different things.
Marching against war or demo's about human rights is one thing, strikes because train guards are being made redundant is another. Surely?
Whats this holiday and sick pay you speak of?
Like i said earlier maybe i look at things differently because i work for myself. But I'm always happy to be enlightened on here though PlanetHonneywood. :)
Maybe you can give me an example of a strike because of work conditions,that has improved society as a whole?
Like i said , i see using the public as leverage for their own personal cause principally wrong. If i dont get payed for a job, i dont park my ford transit van on the next door neighbours lawn and refuse to leave until i get payed. It might motivate my customer to pay me though.
As Loftboy illustrated , its not fair.
And just to add. We're not talking about all low payed workers. We're talking about workers who provide a service to the public yet use the public as leverage for their own gain. I would say 95% of minimum or low payed workers dont really have a say and just get on with the job. [Post edited 19 Dec 2016 23:34]
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The French general strike in 1936 lead to the law first giving paid holiday to workers which lead to the UK government following suit in 1938 under pressure from the TUC
In 1929 a cloth making union in the US went on strike for a 5 day working week and got it, setting the precedent for everyone else
In the UK the strikes held by the Chartist movement laid the groundwork for most of the working rights we have today and the basis of proper representative democracy
In Poland, the strikes by Solidarity essentially brought down Communism
There's 4 for starters |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:01 - Dec 20 with 1427 views | FDC |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 20:10 - Dec 19 by PunteR |
I think we're talking about two different things.
Marching against war or demo's about human rights is one thing, strikes because train guards are being made redundant is another. Surely?
Whats this holiday and sick pay you speak of?
Like i said earlier maybe i look at things differently because i work for myself. But I'm always happy to be enlightened on here though PlanetHonneywood. :)
Maybe you can give me an example of a strike because of work conditions,that has improved society as a whole?
Like i said , i see using the public as leverage for their own personal cause principally wrong. If i dont get payed for a job, i dont park my ford transit van on the next door neighbours lawn and refuse to leave until i get payed. It might motivate my customer to pay me though.
As Loftboy illustrated , its not fair.
And just to add. We're not talking about all low payed workers. We're talking about workers who provide a service to the public yet use the public as leverage for their own gain. I would say 95% of minimum or low payed workers dont really have a say and just get on with the job. [Post edited 19 Dec 2016 23:34]
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Maybe you can give me an example of a strike because of work conditions,that has improved society as a whole?
The labour movement has won an enormous amount of things that we take for granted, and the strike is one of its main weapons.
One thing that directly lead from strike action was the creation of The Weekend |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:03 - Dec 20 with 1423 views | FDC |
For people saying "my work conditions are shit but you don't see me striking".... maybe those two things are related?.... | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 16:48 - Dec 20 with 1379 views | Monahoop |
Is there a strikers strike at LR these days? If so, I don't support it. |  |
| There aint half been some clever bastards. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union (n/t) on 17:09 - Dec 20 with 1354 views | easthertsr |
The Tories always say that to get the best people to work for you at the executive level then you have to pay the top wages, but then if workers further down the chain try to get better pay they are selfish, money-grabbing oiks who have contempt for the electorate! [Post edited 20 Dec 2016 17:31]
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:30 - Dec 20 with 1337 views | wood_hoop |
Swissport workers suspend strike on 23rd & 24th
Seems Unite can sit round a table at UCAS and talk with some bosses. [Post edited 20 Dec 2016 17:31]
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 18:17 - Dec 20 with 1304 views | PunteR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 14:59 - Dec 20 by robith |
The French general strike in 1936 lead to the law first giving paid holiday to workers which lead to the UK government following suit in 1938 under pressure from the TUC
In 1929 a cloth making union in the US went on strike for a 5 day working week and got it, setting the precedent for everyone else
In the UK the strikes held by the Chartist movement laid the groundwork for most of the working rights we have today and the basis of proper representative democracy
In Poland, the strikes by Solidarity essentially brought down Communism
There's 4 for starters |
Typical French.. 
Ok, so strike action in the past has helped set the work conditions now. Consider me enlightened.:). strikes in principle benefits everyone.
Doesn't help Loftboy catch his flight though.
Maybe I need to be more open minded and better educated but it still irks me when I hear of no trains or plane services or post around busy times of year.
Cheers for the reply's. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 23:24 - Dec 20 with 1245 views | FDC |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 18:17 - Dec 20 by PunteR |
Typical French..
Ok, so strike action in the past has helped set the work conditions now. Consider me enlightened.:). strikes in principle benefits everyone.
Doesn't help Loftboy catch his flight though.
Maybe I need to be more open minded and better educated but it still irks me when I hear of no trains or plane services or post around busy times of year.
Cheers for the reply's. |
If strikes weren't disruptive they wouldn't work | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:00 - Dec 21 with 1227 views | PunteR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 23:24 - Dec 20 by FDC |
If strikes weren't disruptive they wouldn't work |
Yeh I get that bit. I don't have to like it though.
I guess the thing I do accept and agree with is everyone should have the right to stand up for their rights. I just think certain cases and strikes should be called into question. [Post edited 21 Dec 2016 0:01]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:06 - Dec 21 with 1219 views | Boston |
The Unions and their supporters have a habit of claiming success, firsts or rights that were going to happen naturally. A bit like indoor plumbing. | |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:09 - Dec 21 with 1216 views | FDC |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:06 - Dec 21 by Boston |
The Unions and their supporters have a habit of claiming success, firsts or rights that were going to happen naturally. A bit like indoor plumbing. |
Amazing. Care to expand? | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:11 - Dec 21 with 1211 views | FredManRave |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:01 - Dec 20 by FDC |
Maybe you can give me an example of a strike because of work conditions,that has improved society as a whole?
The labour movement has won an enormous amount of things that we take for granted, and the strike is one of its main weapons.
One thing that directly lead from strike action was the creation of The Weekend |
The bástards. I'd be a lot richer, healthier and have a damn site more brain cells if this so called labour movement hadn't created The Weekend. |  |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 02:09 - Dec 21 with 1183 views | isawqpratwcity |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 14:59 - Dec 20 by robith |
The French general strike in 1936 lead to the law first giving paid holiday to workers which lead to the UK government following suit in 1938 under pressure from the TUC
In 1929 a cloth making union in the US went on strike for a 5 day working week and got it, setting the precedent for everyone else
In the UK the strikes held by the Chartist movement laid the groundwork for most of the working rights we have today and the basis of proper representative democracy
In Poland, the strikes by Solidarity essentially brought down Communism
There's 4 for starters |
The first three are brilliant.
The last one is a bit of a stretch what with declining Eastern Bloc economies, SDI and a stroppy Polish Pope. | |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:35 - Dec 21 with 1110 views | robith |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 02:09 - Dec 21 by isawqpratwcity |
The first three are brilliant.
The last one is a bit of a stretch what with declining Eastern Bloc economies, SDI and a stroppy Polish Pope. |
Sorry, I should've said "in Poland" - there were contributing factors but Solidarity did for the Polish regime. The negotiations with them were where the Communist government agreed to free elections for example | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:53 - Dec 21 with 1093 views | DaiHo0p |
Naturally? Capitalism by its nature offers nothing to Labour other than the minimum it needs to get people out of bed. |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 13:50 - Dec 21 with 1046 views | MoonshineSteve |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 18:17 - Dec 20 by PunteR |
Typical French..
Ok, so strike action in the past has helped set the work conditions now. Consider me enlightened.:). strikes in principle benefits everyone.
Doesn't help Loftboy catch his flight though.
Maybe I need to be more open minded and better educated but it still irks me when I hear of no trains or plane services or post around busy times of year.
Cheers for the reply's. |
I hope you don't find this patronising, but maybe this thread has helped you be better educated and I think the way you have engaged here suggests you are already well equipped in the open-minded sphere.
So nice to have a proper discussion without threats and insults. |  |
| I am still Steve but no longer in Dagenham. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:12 - Dec 21 with 983 views | FDC |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:00 - Dec 21 by PunteR |
Yeh I get that bit. I don't have to like it though.
I guess the thing I do accept and agree with is everyone should have the right to stand up for their rights. I just think certain cases and strikes should be called into question. [Post edited 21 Dec 2016 0:01]
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I guess whether you view disruptive strike action as valid rests upon whether or not you regard as valid workers exercising power to advance their interests (which can be different and go beyond standing up for their legal rights per se).
That workers in the emergency services or airline industry for e.g. are able to cause such disruption demonstrates their importance to our society. What the tabloids and politicians call 'holding the public to ransom' could also be described as demonstrating the power they potentially have, in order to agitate over the disparity between how they are remunerated compared to say the parasitic capitalist class. Like I say, the validity of flexing that power I guess comes down to a political question of where you stand on class politics. I'll always support striking workers in principle, but that isn't to say I won't ever feel the inconvenience that it causes if i were in loft boy's position for eg (who has my sympathies). | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:41 - Dec 21 with 962 views | sevenhoop |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:49 - Dec 19 by LunarJetman |
Then no-one will do those type of jobs except low paid foreign workers who then get accused of "stealing our jobs".... |
then that becomes British Airways' problem: If they can't staff their planes because they can't attract staff then they need to improve terms. But for people to willingly enter into a contract and then complain they are not paid enough is just ridiculous |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:52 - Dec 21 with 951 views | PunteR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:12 - Dec 21 by FDC |
I guess whether you view disruptive strike action as valid rests upon whether or not you regard as valid workers exercising power to advance their interests (which can be different and go beyond standing up for their legal rights per se).
That workers in the emergency services or airline industry for e.g. are able to cause such disruption demonstrates their importance to our society. What the tabloids and politicians call 'holding the public to ransom' could also be described as demonstrating the power they potentially have, in order to agitate over the disparity between how they are remunerated compared to say the parasitic capitalist class. Like I say, the validity of flexing that power I guess comes down to a political question of where you stand on class politics. I'll always support striking workers in principle, but that isn't to say I won't ever feel the inconvenience that it causes if i were in loft boy's position for eg (who has my sympathies). |
I'm non political. or try to be anyway.
Interesting discussion though..
I'll jump back on my fence now. | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:58 - Dec 21 with 949 views | bob566 |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:41 - Dec 21 by sevenhoop |
then that becomes British Airways' problem: If they can't staff their planes because they can't attract staff then they need to improve terms. But for people to willingly enter into a contract and then complain they are not paid enough is just ridiculous |
and what if its a vocation?
What if you want to really be a nurse or a teacher and people are f***ing you over. Tough, you should have been a brickie instead.
The teachers over here in Ireland were on strike because the govt introduced an agreement where younger teachers joining wouldn't get paid the same rates as older people who are already in the profession. How is that fair. So we might have some old kodger (I'm no spring chicken myself) clogging up the system on decent money while some young eager whippersnapper who is raring to go can't sign up because they can't afford to pay the rents around the country.
That's just an example from Ireland.
Striking I'd wager is never taken lightly as the people aren't getting paid for doing it. Don't forget that they are out of pocket too standing in the pi***ings of rain. It can't be much fun. | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 21:56 - Dec 21 with 871 views | sevenhoop |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:58 - Dec 21 by bob566 |
and what if its a vocation?
What if you want to really be a nurse or a teacher and people are f***ing you over. Tough, you should have been a brickie instead.
The teachers over here in Ireland were on strike because the govt introduced an agreement where younger teachers joining wouldn't get paid the same rates as older people who are already in the profession. How is that fair. So we might have some old kodger (I'm no spring chicken myself) clogging up the system on decent money while some young eager whippersnapper who is raring to go can't sign up because they can't afford to pay the rents around the country.
That's just an example from Ireland.
Striking I'd wager is never taken lightly as the people aren't getting paid for doing it. Don't forget that they are out of pocket too standing in the pi***ings of rain. It can't be much fun. |
You're missing my point. No one forced them to sign up with BA on those terms. They did it freely, knowing the facts. So why then think it's acceptable to then strike because you don't like the terms you signed for? Because the Union barons have got to them and want to use them to wage their political war. | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 22:01 - Dec 21 with 865 views | sevenhoop |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 21:56 - Dec 21 by sevenhoop |
You're missing my point. No one forced them to sign up with BA on those terms. They did it freely, knowing the facts. So why then think it's acceptable to then strike because you don't like the terms you signed for? Because the Union barons have got to them and want to use them to wage their political war. |
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rmt-aslef-u | | | |
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