| BA cabin crew/unite Union 13:19 - Dec 17 with 10656 views | loftboy |
Selfish bastards, not seeing my kids for the first time ever at Christmas, as a way of compensation I'm booked to fly to Berlin on Boxing Day, do they not realise that without customers they wouldn't have a job to strike over,zero sympathy from me, glorified bloody waitresses. |  |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:03 - Dec 18 with 2449 views | essextaxiboy |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:17 - Dec 18 by zicoshoops |
Well said.
I've got a Sister who's flown for BA for more than 30 years.
She does Short Haul now, on 33%
She's available for 10 days a month, usually works 7days.
She takes home more than the Kid's that have joined since 2010, on a mixed fleet full time contract.
They earn just above the poverty line.
Great, some may say....cheaper Tickets.
Welcome to the 'Gig' economy.
BA
Airbnb
Uber
Be careful what you wish for......it's a race to the bottom.
And guess what folks......................your Job/Trade/Profession may be next. [Post edited 18 Dec 2016 0:27]
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As PunteR says below , you dont have a right to the same job for life .
If it changes change with it or do something else .. |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:11 - Dec 18 with 2428 views | Stanisgod |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 08:29 - Dec 18 by MoonshineSteve |
Thing is, if you're self employed I assume you have a skill. Unskilled people who for various reasons - childcare, lack of qualifications, inability to travel, caring responsibilities - have to take low-paid jobs are vulnerable to sudden changes in hours, drops in wages, bullying managers. They can't all change jobs as there aren't always suitable or available jobs to change to. The stories out of Sports Direct were frightening. |
Ditto |  |
| It's being so happy that keeps me going. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:15 - Dec 18 with 2415 views | zicoshoops |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:03 - Dec 18 by essextaxiboy |
As PunteR says below , you dont have a right to the same job for life .
If it changes change with it or do something else .. |
I;m aware I don't have a right to the same job for life.
I'm talking about fair competition.
It make little difference to me either way at my age.
25 years ago I did the 'Knowledge' (Green Badge)
I have 'Competition' now......anyone that can download an App and stare at a Sat Nav while driving.
London is like the Wild West at night.
Have at look at some of the frightening Stat's.
I notice that you drive for a living.
Hackney? PHV? Uber? Or a mixture?
Just curious. |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:31 - Dec 18 with 2386 views | QPR_Jim |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 09:33 - Dec 18 by PunteR |
Just to add. Just because I'm self employed doesn't mean I'm not affected by change in work conditions and wages.
I've had periods where I've hardly had work. Where I haven't been paid for work that I've done and chasing payment is a regular thing. I'm really busy at the mo( believe it or not as I'm always on here) and have work booked up till February but after that ,nothing . Zilch.
I have had to down tools on occasions and pull off jobs where I havnt been paid, which I guess is like a strike, but I'm not affecting peoples day to day lives, and if I were than I honestly,hand on heart wouldn't do it. I guess id be called a scab. |
I take your point but strike action is usually a last resort and one that is never taken litely. By this point usually (I know each situation is different) all the avenues of discussion have been exhausted and agreements can't be made so it's the only way the workers can make their voices heard before something is forced upon then. This is also the point that everyone else becomes aware of the dispute and some, I guess, may think that the strike was the first option taken by the union because the media weren't reporting about it previously.
The Teachers, nurses, fire fighters who strike genuinely don't want to but they are susceptible to governments changing their pay or pensions which they were agreed between parties at the start of the contract/employment. These are careers that people generally take to try and help people so I doubt that they want to down tools, but if management won't listen to any of their concerns prior to striking what else can they do? Walk away from their chosen career, all of them move to the private sector? |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 11:09 - Dec 18 with 2351 views | francisbowles |
Understand both points of view and op's frustration but 'glorified waitresses'.?
These people are the Captain's eyes and ears behind the cockpit door. They are primarily concerned with the safety and security of the cabin. They are also comprehensively trained in aviation medicine so they may just deliver your baby or save your life.
Just look at some of the aircraft accidents and see how many people were so successfully evacuated from them. | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 11:18 - Dec 18 with 2344 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 09:56 - Dec 18 by PunteR |
I honestly don't see the point of joining a union if your self employed.
Surely government and law dictates how business practices should work? Having a union to fight your course is a guaranteed way for conflict in the work place as the union will have to justify its existence. |
I have to disclose that I am a Union rep at this point so am obviously biased.
So many services available to Union members for free or highly discounted rate.
Free education, interest free hardship loans (useful for the tough times you mentioned), free financial advice, free representation in legal disputes, free books and manuals on your trade or industry, and networking with other or fellow trades.
Problem is that you only really hear about Unions when they go on strike or asking for more money.
Also, I don't know what you do for a living PunteR but it would be better for you if your customers have a few extra quid in their pocket and time to spend it? Also your kids might want to work in an industry like nursing, teaching or some other key worker sector. They'll be able to afford a better nursing home for you, and if the carers there are Unionised you might not get slapped about when you ask them to put QPR on the TV : )
https://www.tuc.org.uk/join-union [Post edited 18 Dec 2016 11:28]
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 11:46 - Dec 18 with 2309 views | PunteR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:31 - Dec 18 by QPR_Jim |
I take your point but strike action is usually a last resort and one that is never taken litely. By this point usually (I know each situation is different) all the avenues of discussion have been exhausted and agreements can't be made so it's the only way the workers can make their voices heard before something is forced upon then. This is also the point that everyone else becomes aware of the dispute and some, I guess, may think that the strike was the first option taken by the union because the media weren't reporting about it previously.
The Teachers, nurses, fire fighters who strike genuinely don't want to but they are susceptible to governments changing their pay or pensions which they were agreed between parties at the start of the contract/employment. These are careers that people generally take to try and help people so I doubt that they want to down tools, but if management won't listen to any of their concerns prior to striking what else can they do? Walk away from their chosen career, all of them move to the private sector? |
But isn't that the job of the union, to come to some compromise? I'm sure a strike is the last thing workers want and I'm sure its the last thing employers want. I had to go through a mediator recently for a work dispute but to do that both party's had to expect a compromise . Regardless of my personal feelings on it I had to make a decision that benefitted the situation as a whole and not drag things on any longer that would effect family and work colleagues. I can now put it behind me and move on.
I just don't like the way holding the public to ransom, and that's really what it is Imo, regardless whether they want to or its the last resort. It is to my mind principally wrong.
I except I don't fully know or understand what its like if I were in the shoes of people directly involved. Its just my view on things. [Post edited 18 Dec 2016 11:58]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 11:50 - Dec 18 with 2298 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
The LSA is a sort of Union....... | | | |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 12:07 - Dec 18 with 2284 views | PunteR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 11:18 - Dec 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I have to disclose that I am a Union rep at this point so am obviously biased.
So many services available to Union members for free or highly discounted rate.
Free education, interest free hardship loans (useful for the tough times you mentioned), free financial advice, free representation in legal disputes, free books and manuals on your trade or industry, and networking with other or fellow trades.
Problem is that you only really hear about Unions when they go on strike or asking for more money.
Also, I don't know what you do for a living PunteR but it would be better for you if your customers have a few extra quid in their pocket and time to spend it? Also your kids might want to work in an industry like nursing, teaching or some other key worker sector. They'll be able to afford a better nursing home for you, and if the carers there are Unionised you might not get slapped about when you ask them to put QPR on the TV : )
https://www.tuc.org.uk/join-union [Post edited 18 Dec 2016 11:28]
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Point taken Baz. I am basing my opinions on unions on what I see in the media.
I'm a self employed carpenter. My oldest is leaving school next year and is going to do an apprenticeship with me. I'm expecting lots of strike action from him so I'll pass on your details to him ;) | |
| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 14:35 - Dec 18 with 2211 views | sevenhoop |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 00:17 - Dec 18 by zicoshoops |
Well said.
I've got a Sister who's flown for BA for more than 30 years.
She does Short Haul now, on 33%
She's available for 10 days a month, usually works 7days.
She takes home more than the Kid's that have joined since 2010, on a mixed fleet full time contract.
They earn just above the poverty line.
Great, some may say....cheaper Tickets.
Welcome to the 'Gig' economy.
BA
Airbnb
Uber
Be careful what you wish for......it's a race to the bottom.
And guess what folks......................your Job/Trade/Profession may be next. [Post edited 18 Dec 2016 0:27]
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they knew they were going to be paid less than the other BA employees when they signed up. so no bloody point complaining about it now is there? no one forced them to join the airline and sign the contract. Don't like it, f@ck off and work elsewhere and let others do the job |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 16:58 - Dec 18 with 2155 views | QPR_Jim |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 11:46 - Dec 18 by PunteR |
But isn't that the job of the union, to come to some compromise? I'm sure a strike is the last thing workers want and I'm sure its the last thing employers want. I had to go through a mediator recently for a work dispute but to do that both party's had to expect a compromise . Regardless of my personal feelings on it I had to make a decision that benefitted the situation as a whole and not drag things on any longer that would effect family and work colleagues. I can now put it behind me and move on.
I just don't like the way holding the public to ransom, and that's really what it is Imo, regardless whether they want to or its the last resort. It is to my mind principally wrong.
I except I don't fully know or understand what its like if I were in the shoes of people directly involved. Its just my view on things. [Post edited 18 Dec 2016 11:58]
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Fair enough, I appreciate your view on it. I agree that the union should come to a compromise but as you say in your example both parties need to be willing to compromise. The management tend to have more power in negotiations and some form of action or striking is the only method of regaining control.
Anyway, that's just my take on it. | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:00 - Dec 18 with 2149 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 14:35 - Dec 18 by sevenhoop |
they knew they were going to be paid less than the other BA employees when they signed up. so no bloody point complaining about it now is there? no one forced them to join the airline and sign the contract. Don't like it, f@ck off and work elsewhere and let others do the job |
Do you work for the DWP? | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:59 - Dec 18 with 2108 views | essextaxiboy |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:15 - Dec 18 by zicoshoops |
I;m aware I don't have a right to the same job for life.
I'm talking about fair competition.
It make little difference to me either way at my age.
25 years ago I did the 'Knowledge' (Green Badge)
I have 'Competition' now......anyone that can download an App and stare at a Sat Nav while driving.
London is like the Wild West at night.
Have at look at some of the frightening Stat's.
I notice that you drive for a living.
Hackney? PHV? Uber? Or a mixture?
Just curious. |
Respect for you for completing the knowledge.
I am PHV licensed by Basildon . I only do airport transfer work .
You have had a good run at the job , but you must have seen that the age of flagging an antiquated (though iconic) vehicle down at the roads side was under threat .
The black cab trade was slow to adapt to the new tech and the likes of Uber have the advantage now .
People will shop on price , they may whinge at surge pricing and a bloke who doesnt know where he is going but they will go back time and time again because of price and ease of booking , they can stand in a bar and walk out as he pulls up .
The legality of Uber in London is under question but the black cab trade needs to plan to compete as well as beat them in the courts.
Uber is coming to Basildon , if I owned a cab firm I would sell out now . The days of paying a taxI firm radio rent money for work is coming to an end .
If I were younger I would be expecting to join Uber at some point or planning a job change .
Its like any business , if it doesnt stack up , even it it did once its finished . | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 07:19 - Dec 19 with 2017 views | zicoshoops |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:59 - Dec 18 by essextaxiboy |
Respect for you for completing the knowledge.
I am PHV licensed by Basildon . I only do airport transfer work .
You have had a good run at the job , but you must have seen that the age of flagging an antiquated (though iconic) vehicle down at the roads side was under threat .
The black cab trade was slow to adapt to the new tech and the likes of Uber have the advantage now .
People will shop on price , they may whinge at surge pricing and a bloke who doesnt know where he is going but they will go back time and time again because of price and ease of booking , they can stand in a bar and walk out as he pulls up .
The legality of Uber in London is under question but the black cab trade needs to plan to compete as well as beat them in the courts.
Uber is coming to Basildon , if I owned a cab firm I would sell out now . The days of paying a taxI firm radio rent money for work is coming to an end .
If I were younger I would be expecting to join Uber at some point or planning a job change .
Its like any business , if it doesnt stack up , even it it did once its finished . |
I agree, the age of the street hail only, has gone.
But there was an App called Hailo that existed before Uber was around.
'Taxiapp' is the best one out there today, both for customer, and driver.
I could go on and on about the subject, but it's not only the Cab trade that's affected.
It's a race to the bottom in so many industries today.
Sorry to hear that you may be facing 'Competition' from Uber in Basildon, good luck with it, hopes it doesn't affect you too much.
Your 'Competition,' is a Company that is supposedly valued at over 60 Billion...operates on losses of more than 1 Billion.....register's itself in different Countries to the one's it operates in......and pays very little tax.
I'll be interested to hear your thoughts in 6 months time.
We're in the age of backdoor deregulation, regardless of Industry/Trade/Profession.
The majority of people work hard and raise their families.
Their kids work hard at school/Uni and emerge with a huge debt and discover that the odds are firmly stacked against them.
Unless they are one of the lucky few that will inherit, most look forward to a lifetime of hard work, without the means to even get onto the property ladder.
The only way to make yourself heard is the Ballot Box.
Are you surprised about Brexit, Trump?................I'm not.
The Politicians and the chattering classes cry 'Racist.'
They just don't get it.
I think it's as simple as millions of ordinary people voting against the unacceptable unfairness of the current systems in First World Countries.
They Reap what they Sow.
Never voted Tory in my life, probably never will, but a saying about the legacy Thatcher wanted to leave always makes me smile.
'She wanted to create a nation with the same values that her Father held.....
Instead she created a nation with the same values that her Son holds.'
Anyway, Rant over.
Be lucky. [Post edited 19 Dec 2016 7:41]
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 10:16 - Dec 19 with 1942 views | robith |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 09:00 - Dec 18 by DejR_vu |
It's not that I don't have some sympathy for the reasons that move people to strike, I generally do, it just doesn't extend to inconveniencing the paying consumer.
There are few skills that can't be learnt with time, determination, and probably some sacrifice. We live in a country / society where there are very few barriers to stop people doing what they want to do. So most people have choices. So, I would suggest, those going on strike could, in the vast majority of cases, do something else for a living but prefer to do what they are doing currently. In which case they should accept the working conditions that come with it. |
A strike that affects no one would be pretty ineffective, no?
The minimum wage in this country is lower that what it requires to live here. So going finding something else will just be another job paying wages you can't afford to live on, on zero hour contracts. Or they could...magically retrain as you suggest, somehow, without money.
Your suggestion to just lump anything that is bad would mean nothing would ever change. If it wasn't for strikes we wouldn't have weekends off. Should everyone back in the day have just accepted working 7 days a week? |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:31 - Dec 19 with 1209 views | kensalriser |
Simply put: if you don't treat your employees like scum, by and large they won't go on strike. |  |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:40 - Dec 19 with 1195 views | BostonR |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:31 - Dec 19 by kensalriser |
Simply put: if you don't treat your employees like scum, by and large they won't go on strike. |
Spot-on.
It works both ways in an industrial dispute - yes, unions can sometimes be hot to fire the strike gun but often poor and antagonistic management by companies leaves workers with very little option. |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:44 - Dec 19 with 1191 views | nadera78 |
There are some absolutely craven, forelock tugging, take the scraps they're offered, bastards on this thread. I'm glad I don't work with them. | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:49 - Dec 19 with 1178 views | LunarJetman |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 14:35 - Dec 18 by sevenhoop |
they knew they were going to be paid less than the other BA employees when they signed up. so no bloody point complaining about it now is there? no one forced them to join the airline and sign the contract. Don't like it, f@ck off and work elsewhere and let others do the job |
Then no-one will do those type of jobs except low paid foreign workers who then get accused of "stealing our jobs".... |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 16:31 - Dec 19 with 1154 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 08:12 - Dec 18 by PunteR |
I don't fully understand strikes,any of them. Maybe its because I'm self-employed and my work ethic is different. I dunno, but holding people to ransom because you don't agree or like your work conditions is wrong Imo. If you feel that strongly, change jobs. |
Do you understand why people marched against say, poll tax or Iraq? Would it make it easier to understand if say, having struck a deal and agreed terms and conditions, the other side sought to renege or, if you'd done the work and the other party refused to pay, would you expect us to understand why you might seek redress in a court of law?
Perhaps enlightenment might also come from finding out what the strikers are aggrieved about before querying their motives. If we lose the right to strike then you might as well pack up and go home, because it's such actions that have brought us holidays with pay, better conditions that in many cases saw rates of death and injury decline, sick pay so on and so forth.
In my experience, folks strike for a valid reason and not for something trivial. |  |
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 16:37 - Dec 19 with 1142 views | NW5Hoop |
Needs to be noted that going on strike is no one's idea of a first option. The trade union legislation of the 80s means unions now have to go through a long and stringent process before calling a strike, which takes time, costs money, and leaves them open to legal challenge. When a strike is called, it is because the people concerned have reached the end of their tether, not because they think it might be a laugh. It is much, much, much easier not to strike, but that depends on management being willing to discuss things rather than playing brinksmanship. | | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 16:57 - Dec 19 with 1115 views | essextaxiboy |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:44 - Dec 19 by nadera78 |
There are some absolutely craven, forelock tugging, take the scraps they're offered, bastards on this thread. I'm glad I don't work with them. |
Bastards ? ...really ?
Dont they just disagree with you ? [Post edited 19 Dec 2016 17:01]
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| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 17:38 - Dec 19 with 1073 views | Hoop_Du_Jour |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:44 - Dec 19 by nadera78 |
There are some absolutely craven, forelock tugging, take the scraps they're offered, bastards on this thread. I'm glad I don't work with them. |
I doubt you work with anybody. Too busy plotting your Christmas fortnight off because the egg yolks were too pale in the heavily subsidised canteen that you habituate half of your working day. |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 18:30 - Dec 19 with 1040 views | Match82 |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 15:31 - Dec 19 by kensalriser |
Simply put: if you don't treat your employees like scum, by and large they won't go on strike. |
Absolutely true. But the reason the public get upset is because they (the public) have done nothing wrong, and are the ones losing out. What is needed is a way to penalize the scumbags who create intolerable working conditions, while not victimizing the general public |  | | |
| BA cabin crew/unite Union on 20:07 - Dec 19 with 971 views | AgedR |
Between 2007 and 2015 UK wages dropped by 10.4% in real terms. During the same period the pay of FTSE100 CEOs has risen by a third (after already rising astromically during the previous 20 years).
On balance "go and get another job" (presumably on one's bike?) might not actually make a scrap of difference.
Still it is refreshing to see striking low paid workers being blamed for the ills of society rather than immigrants, while Trump and May fill their governments with millionaires and billionaires (sorry, "wealth creators").
That'll show the elites!! |  |
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