| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 13:40 - Dec 9 with 22241 views | Lohengrin |
1955:
"The lasting bequest we give to our children is roots."
Goethe
2015:
"The Turcoman hath left his herd."
Lord Byron
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:04 - Dec 10 with 1467 views | Kerouac |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 14:49 - Dec 10 by Lohengrin |
"Everyone who wants to push their beliefs, faiths, ideologies etc. should be kicked the fukk out."
Kerouac, would that include the relentless promotion of a multiculturalist agenda by the NUT? |
All political beliefs should be kept out in my world view.
Would Trampie like me to come to his kids school and teach them to be Liberal Democrats.
Would I like my kids to be taught nationalists.
Perch like his kids to be encouraged to be socialists etc.
(forgive me if I've got any of the above wrong)
Politics, religion and Ideology out.
You only speak of them when you speak of all of them.
e.g. A lesson on the political parties of this country
Year 1.
10 lessons on the History of the Labour Party and socialism
10 lessons on Conservatives and capitalism.
10 lessons on Nationalism (Scottish and Welsh and the rise of UKIP)
10 Lessons on Liberalism.
Year 2
10 lessons on the history of the European Union
10 lessons on the American Constitution (relating the lessons to modern issues where possible)
10 lessons on America in the 20th century
10 lessons on Communism and the Cold War
Year 3
10 lessions on the rise of Arab Nationalism in the early 20th Century
10 lessons on World Islam
10 lessons on Confuscianism (apologies for spelling)
10 lessons on Latin America (broad brush, pick 5 countries, 2 lessons per country)
etc.
Repeat for religion. |  |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:09 - Dec 10 with 1454 views | Gowerjack |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 14:25 - Dec 10 by Kerouac |
Why does it HAVE to be that way?
Why should we still be labelled a "Christian" country when less than 5% of the population attend a church on any given Sunday?
This is the 21st century. The vast majority of the UK population do not practice religion anymore. Isn't it about time the institutions of this country caught up?
Starting with schools.
There is simply no excuse for religious schools. If anyone wants to bring their child up in their faith they can do it on their own time. In the home. At the temple. At events/clubs organised by the temple.
I wouldn't even allow Sunday schools or Madrassas as this is clearly a method to brainwash young people
State schools should teach a little about the World religions, what the followers of different faiths believe and the history of religious conflicts.
This issue really gets my goat.
Recently, at my son's primary school (which is not religious) some bible bashers have started a "Bible club" on a lunchtime.
The parents' opinions were not canvassed.
We received a text on a Sunday night that the club was voluntary (we are talking about 5 year olds) and that we "needed to inform a teacher if we did not want our child to attend".
The following morning I made it clear that my son was not to attend under any circumstances, some parents will not have had that opportunity of course.
It emerged a week or so later that the Bible club had started a week earlier than the initial text and that some children (whose parents were against their attendance subsequenty) had attended.
I know of one little girl who couldn't understand why she wasn't now allowed to attend "I want to, we only do colouring and singing".
How do you explain to a 6 year old that although it was fun we as parents are not fussed on perfect strangers teaching you to believe in a load of old cobblers once a week.
I asked questions about why this was allowed to happen and just got back the usual shit about a requirement to teach "collective worship" as well as an emphasis put on that attendance was not compulsory "it is the choice of the pupil"....which was entirely satisfactory.
I have asked a school governor to find out for me at the next meeting if I can hold an "Atheist Club" still no reply.
This shit has got to stop in schools.
Teachers teach the subjects. Everyone who wants to push their beliefs, faiths, ideologies etc. should be kicked the fukk out. |
Spot on. |  |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:10 - Dec 10 with 1448 views | trampie |
You can't teach anybody other than a small percentage of people to be Liberal Democrats because people wont fall for it.
Look here kids you can go onto university but it will cost you nine grand a year. lol. [Post edited 10 Dec 2015 15:13]
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:15 - Dec 10 with 1434 views | Bloodyhills |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 14:44 - Dec 10 by Lohengrin |
They are too numerous to be written off as a few random nutters, though nutters they undoubtedly are. The problem is a desert religion interpreted as a death cult. What I find obscene is the notion that it can be viewed as a legitimate worldview to be negotiated with. |
I agree, unlike the Manson family, ISIS is not a random group of nutters and I think understanding what they are about is one step in helping to come up with solutions to deal with them i.e negotiating them is out for a start.
It's a complex situation out there but I think looking at starving them of funding would be a good start, it would be like chemo therapy shrinking a cancer cell. |  |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:17 - Dec 10 with 1427 views | Lohengrin |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:15 - Dec 10 by Bloodyhills |
I agree, unlike the Manson family, ISIS is not a random group of nutters and I think understanding what they are about is one step in helping to come up with solutions to deal with them i.e negotiating them is out for a start.
It's a complex situation out there but I think looking at starving them of funding would be a good start, it would be like chemo therapy shrinking a cancer cell. |
Well there we are then, we're not so very far apart after all. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:19 - Dec 10 with 1423 views | Bloodyhills |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:17 - Dec 10 by Lohengrin |
Well there we are then, we're not so very far apart after all. |
LoL, not on ISIS that's for sure. | |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:20 - Dec 10 with 1420 views | Lohengrin |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:19 - Dec 10 by Bloodyhills |
LoL, not on ISIS that's for sure. |
Or the Swans.  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:31 - Dec 10 with 1402 views | Bloodyhills |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:20 - Dec 10 by Lohengrin |
Or the Swans. |
Am crossing my fingers for some signs of improvement before the year ends. | |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 16:46 - Dec 10 with 1363 views | Kerouac |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 15:15 - Dec 10 by Lohengrin |
It's not though, is it? Imagine opening your door and walking down the street shouting to everybody "Christmas is cancelled from now on; kids forget about the Easter eggs from here on in we all live as Trostsky would have wanted us to."
That's not who we are. Everybody would just look at you as if you'd gone simple, mun!  [Post edited 10 Dec 2015 15:18]
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I suspect your tongue is in your cheek but will clarify anyway.
Christmas wouldn't be cancelled. Nor Easter. Nor Ramadan.
Everyone would be free to celebrate whatever festivals and customs they like, but the religious content wouldn't be endorsed by the school or the state in general.
e.g. Christmas
The schools can celebrate Christmas customs, seasonal stuff, traditions. They can talk about the history and what Christians believe in.....but not tell the nativity story as though it was factual.
So the school Head introduces the nativity play and states clearly (in a manner which the children can understand) that this is a story from the Bible. The Bible is a book that Christians hold sacred and believe in. We traditionally celebrate it on December 25th as before Christianity came to this country the Pagan people who lived here had a winter festival around this time.
Any school celebrating Christmas and Easter should then be obliged to celebrate at least 1 festival from the other World religions who reside in this country....again spelling out to the children that "this is what Hindus/Sikhs/Jews/Buddhists etc. believe".
The same amount of assemblies should be given to the beliefs/positions of Humanists, Atheists, Agnostics etc.
I would argue that the vast majority of assemblies should be devoted to; The Institutions of state, How we are governed, Why there is a police force, How we make law, What is the UN, World poverty etc.
You know, educate them. | |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 16:54 - Dec 10 with 1353 views | trampie |
Celebrating Christmas customs is endorsing Christmas and a Christian festival, you cant have it both ways.  | |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:03 - Dec 10 with 1346 views | skippyjack |
You have to be a Muslim to enter that school.
All Christian schools are multicultural.
Diversity! Integration! |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:08 - Dec 10 with 1336 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 16:54 - Dec 10 by trampie |
Celebrating Christmas customs is endorsing Christmas and a Christian festival, you cant have it both ways. |
Loads of Jewish people celebrate Christmas as a family festival, nothing to do with the story of Christ (as do most 'Christians' actually). Go to any Jewish butchers in London and they've all got their turkeys on order.
I've worked with Hindus and Moslems as well who celebrate Christmas - buy Christmas pressies for their kids, have a big family meal together etc etc. It's part of living in this country, and doesn't have much to do with religion any longer. Rightly or wrongly, customs such as Father Christmas etc have become much more of a big deal than the Christian message (same at Easter, where the whole hot cross buns and Easter eggs side of it is much bigger than the crucifixion, resurrection part of it).
There has always been a winter festival, as I'm sure you, who have been bleating on about Wales being 'pagan' for a few pages now, should know. | | | |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:17 - Dec 10 with 1326 views | LeonisGod |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:08 - Dec 10 by londonlisa2001 |
Loads of Jewish people celebrate Christmas as a family festival, nothing to do with the story of Christ (as do most 'Christians' actually). Go to any Jewish butchers in London and they've all got their turkeys on order.
I've worked with Hindus and Moslems as well who celebrate Christmas - buy Christmas pressies for their kids, have a big family meal together etc etc. It's part of living in this country, and doesn't have much to do with religion any longer. Rightly or wrongly, customs such as Father Christmas etc have become much more of a big deal than the Christian message (same at Easter, where the whole hot cross buns and Easter eggs side of it is much bigger than the crucifixion, resurrection part of it).
There has always been a winter festival, as I'm sure you, who have been bleating on about Wales being 'pagan' for a few pages now, should know. |
Besides, everyone knows Santa is real and God isn't. There's even a website where you can see what he's up to. http://www.noradsanta.org |  | | |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:20 - Dec 10 with 1322 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:17 - Dec 10 by LeonisGod |
Besides, everyone knows Santa is real and God isn't. There's even a website where you can see what he's up to. http://www.noradsanta.org |
On a lighter note, isn't that website brilliant - the kids all love watching where he is on Christmas Eve, and it's a great way of persuading all children in the house to get to bed nice and early - look, he's almost here! | | | |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:21 - Dec 10 with 1318 views | trampie |
Like i'm going to go into a Jewish butchers, strewth. | |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:25 - Dec 10 with 1318 views | Lohengrin |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 16:46 - Dec 10 by Kerouac |
I suspect your tongue is in your cheek but will clarify anyway.
Christmas wouldn't be cancelled. Nor Easter. Nor Ramadan.
Everyone would be free to celebrate whatever festivals and customs they like, but the religious content wouldn't be endorsed by the school or the state in general.
e.g. Christmas
The schools can celebrate Christmas customs, seasonal stuff, traditions. They can talk about the history and what Christians believe in.....but not tell the nativity story as though it was factual.
So the school Head introduces the nativity play and states clearly (in a manner which the children can understand) that this is a story from the Bible. The Bible is a book that Christians hold sacred and believe in. We traditionally celebrate it on December 25th as before Christianity came to this country the Pagan people who lived here had a winter festival around this time.
Any school celebrating Christmas and Easter should then be obliged to celebrate at least 1 festival from the other World religions who reside in this country....again spelling out to the children that "this is what Hindus/Sikhs/Jews/Buddhists etc. believe".
The same amount of assemblies should be given to the beliefs/positions of Humanists, Atheists, Agnostics etc.
I would argue that the vast majority of assemblies should be devoted to; The Institutions of state, How we are governed, Why there is a police force, How we make law, What is the UN, World poverty etc.
You know, educate them. |
"I would argue that the vast majority of assemblies should be devoted to The Institutions of state...."
Buddy boy that could have leapt straight from the pages of Pravda circa 1931. I'll say it again without tongue-in-cheek this time that's not who we are.
This is still a Christian country, Europe is still a Christian civilization; albeit with a smaller "c" and less observant than in decades past, but Christian nonetheless. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:29 - Dec 10 with 1308 views | Lohengrin |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:08 - Dec 10 by londonlisa2001 |
Loads of Jewish people celebrate Christmas as a family festival, nothing to do with the story of Christ (as do most 'Christians' actually). Go to any Jewish butchers in London and they've all got their turkeys on order.
I've worked with Hindus and Moslems as well who celebrate Christmas - buy Christmas pressies for their kids, have a big family meal together etc etc. It's part of living in this country, and doesn't have much to do with religion any longer. Rightly or wrongly, customs such as Father Christmas etc have become much more of a big deal than the Christian message (same at Easter, where the whole hot cross buns and Easter eggs side of it is much bigger than the crucifixion, resurrection part of it).
There has always been a winter festival, as I'm sure you, who have been bleating on about Wales being 'pagan' for a few pages now, should know. |
Your post reminded me of the Mel Brooks joke, Lisa....
"Irving Berlin, he's the first authentically Jewish genius we've had since Moses. He took Christmas and made it about the weather, he took the Crucifxion and made it all about hats!"  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:35 - Dec 10 with 1301 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:21 - Dec 10 by trampie |
Like i'm going to go into a Jewish butchers, strewth. |
That wasn't the point.
If you opened your ears and eyes sometimes to other people and cultures you may learn something and be less, you know, thick, than you are.
It's very sad to see someone that spends their entire online life bleating about the history of Wales take such delight in throwing away and sneering at the culture of learning, education, curiosity, that was such a part of being Welsh. Replacing it with a celebration of the mediocrity that is Leanne Wood and a delight in appearing as stupid as humanly possible. | | | |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:40 - Dec 10 with 1283 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:29 - Dec 10 by Lohengrin |
Your post reminded me of the Mel Brooks joke, Lisa....
"Irving Berlin, he's the first authentically Jewish genius we've had since Moses. He took Christmas and made it about the weather, he took the Crucifxion and made it all about hats!" |
Mel Brooks is bloody genius.
"We want to tell the story of the Hitler you loved, the Hitler you knew, the Hitler with a song in his heart" - always makes me cry laughing! | | | |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:45 - Dec 10 with 1274 views | trampie |
There are other people and cultures in Wales, white flighters came from England to retire, Irish came to work in the mines and steelworks, Italians opened up cafes across the South Wales valleys and Poles came here as mechanics and plumbers. | |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:49 - Dec 10 with 1265 views | Lohengrin |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:45 - Dec 10 by trampie |
There are other people and cultures in Wales, white flighters came from England to retire, Irish came to work in the mines and steelworks, Italians opened up cafes across the South Wales valleys and Poles came here as mechanics and plumbers. |
All products of European Christian civilization, Tramp. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 17:50 - Dec 10 with 1261 views | dgt73 |
| A tale of two Manchester school photos: 1955 - 2015 on 16:05 - Dec 9 by londonlisa2001 |
show a picture of a comprehensive school in a rural part of the UK and it would be completely white.
Tell you what though - look at the flags they are waving, and look how thrilled they are to se Michelle Obama.
Rather undermines your 'they don't fit in and support our culture' point don't you think? |
Let me know where they have completely white schools in rural Pakistan. |  |
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