| Bombs at France game and shooting 21:54 - Nov 13 with 37916 views | Gloucs_R |
Suicide bombers at France v Germany game and machine gun attacks in Paris |  |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 12:56 - Nov 14 with 2657 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Very reasoned thread, fair play to you all.
Hard to balance compassion today with the thirst for vengeance. As always in these dreadful situations, as an Irishman, I look back just a few short years and am reminded of how circumstances change and of how peace can trump violence. And I hope. |  |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 13:41 - Nov 14 with 2556 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 12:42 - Nov 14 by QPR442 |
It's just a shame that the authorities don't get more help from these communities.
I am a normal bloke who gets on with life, family, QPR, job, mates but would never walk down a street holding up banners say 'death to all non believers' and crap like that. Plenty of them from the muslim community.
This country we live in is a great country and if these religious scumbags cannot integrate with us and chose our ways then they should f*** off.
It's about time we stopped being so tolerant and crack down hard on them. I would like to see more deportations and banning of these hate groups. |
There's probably a lot more help from those groups than you know about.
No, I don't think we should put up with 'Death to the Unbelievers' signs, either.
Have a think about how you would get a decent, reasonable bloke like Exiled Dictator to know you support him. Even better, ask yourself, if you were a reasonable British Muslim, what it would take to let you know that the average bloke in the street doesn't have a problem with you being there. |  |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 13:46 - Nov 14 with 2544 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 12:56 - Nov 14 by BrianMcCarthy |
Very reasoned thread, fair play to you all.
Hard to balance compassion today with the thirst for vengeance. As always in these dreadful situations, as an Irishman, I look back just a few short years and am reminded of how circumstances change and of how peace can trump violence. And I hope. |
Fair comment.
Two situations I didn't think would ever work out the way they did were Northern Ireland and South Africa. Don't give up. | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:10 - Nov 14 with 2487 views | QPR442 |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 13:41 - Nov 14 by isawqpratwcity |
There's probably a lot more help from those groups than you know about.
No, I don't think we should put up with 'Death to the Unbelievers' signs, either.
Have a think about how you would get a decent, reasonable bloke like Exiled Dictator to know you support him. Even better, ask yourself, if you were a reasonable British Muslim, what it would take to let you know that the average bloke in the street doesn't have a problem with you being there. |
I would probably integrate more and stop sticking to my own groups.
If i moved to the to say Saudi i would obey their laws.
I would have a drink, I would let my wife swim in a bikini and i would go to my CofE church on Sunday morning.
Oh no you can't do that in a Muslim country can you?
That's the difference, it's muslim way or no way. That's some people in this country have a problem with decent muslims because a few ruin it for the rest. |  | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:11 - Nov 14 with 2483 views | Pommyhoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 13:46 - Nov 14 by isawqpratwcity |
Fair comment.
Two situations I didn't think would ever work out the way they did were Northern Ireland and South Africa. Don't give up. |
Completely different ball park. You are trivializing matters and it helps no f'cker.
Its time for proper talk and engagement. |  |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:26 - Nov 14 with 2426 views | kensalriser |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:10 - Nov 14 by QPR442 |
I would probably integrate more and stop sticking to my own groups.
If i moved to the to say Saudi i would obey their laws.
I would have a drink, I would let my wife swim in a bikini and i would go to my CofE church on Sunday morning.
Oh no you can't do that in a Muslim country can you?
That's the difference, it's muslim way or no way. That's some people in this country have a problem with decent muslims because a few ruin it for the rest. |
If you control if and when and in what manner your wife swims then perhaps you have more in common with them than you imagine. |  |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:27 - Nov 14 with 2421 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:11 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
Completely different ball park. You are trivializing matters and it helps no f'cker.
Its time for proper talk and engagement. |
What do you want to say? | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:33 - Nov 14 with 2397 views | Pommyhoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:27 - Nov 14 by isawqpratwcity |
What do you want to say? |
Ok you give me a starting point for peace talks against say 'ISIS'?
Where should we start? Middle ground? | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:36 - Nov 14 with 2390 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:33 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
Ok you give me a starting point for peace talks against say 'ISIS'?
Where should we start? Middle ground? |
One thing the West and ISIS have in common is that they both kill innocent muslims. |  | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:38 - Nov 14 with 2381 views | Pommyhoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:36 - Nov 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
One thing the West and ISIS have in common is that they both kill innocent muslims. |
Left wing
clap clap clap. | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:40 - Nov 14 with 2369 views | BromleyHoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 11:08 - Nov 14 by Mark1 |
If we are at war with these people and it appears we are, what would we have done in the past and perhaps we should follow the same route.
We are far to liberal and tolerant in the West and they are taking the Piss out of our weak leaders ,if we don't come down really hard it's just gonna continue.
Anyone born here who gets involved should be tried for treason and hung - there's a start and their families deported to their place of origin, even if it goes back a few generations - that might make em think twice if it's gonna affect their families.
Awaits backlash.
I |
I do believe that we will eventually have to reintroduce a modern version of internment as they did in WW2. It is not acceptable to allow enemies of the state to have free reign over movement, association and communication when all they are doing is trying to harm our society.
The HRA should not apply as internment should be re introduced under Emergency measures in a time of war.
I'm sure some, if not most, of you will think this is extreme. However we are faced with extremists espousing an extreme ideology. It requires extreme measures to ensure the safety of the public.
I believe this should be implemented for maybe the top 2 or 300 ISIS sympathisers. The security services must be stretched very thin having to conduct electronic and physical surveillance on these nutters and the cost of doing this must be a huge drain on their budget. |  |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:45 - Nov 14 with 2352 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:38 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
Left wing
clap clap clap. |
I'm just being facetious by the way, but there is cycle developing of bomb, retreat, await massacre, bomb, retreat, await massacre. | | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:45 - Nov 14 with 2350 views | WilloW4 |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 12:56 - Nov 14 by BrianMcCarthy |
Very reasoned thread, fair play to you all.
Hard to balance compassion today with the thirst for vengeance. As always in these dreadful situations, as an Irishman, I look back just a few short years and am reminded of how circumstances change and of how peace can trump violence. And I hope. |
Understand your point Brian .. I've got norm iron blood and visited Belfast recently .. But 3 times I was growled at for having a London accent and told to Feck off back 'to Tory Britain' .. There's always an element of folks who'll never give up 'the cause'. |  | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:47 - Nov 14 with 2342 views | Pommyhoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:40 - Nov 14 by BromleyHoop |
I do believe that we will eventually have to reintroduce a modern version of internment as they did in WW2. It is not acceptable to allow enemies of the state to have free reign over movement, association and communication when all they are doing is trying to harm our society.
The HRA should not apply as internment should be re introduced under Emergency measures in a time of war.
I'm sure some, if not most, of you will think this is extreme. However we are faced with extremists espousing an extreme ideology. It requires extreme measures to ensure the safety of the public.
I believe this should be implemented for maybe the top 2 or 300 ISIS sympathisers. The security services must be stretched very thin having to conduct electronic and physical surveillance on these nutters and the cost of doing this must be a huge drain on their budget. |
WW2 ??
They did it in the 70's and 80's in Norn Iron.It didn't work back then and I don't think it would work now. | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:51 - Nov 14 with 2323 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:33 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
Ok you give me a starting point for peace talks against say 'ISIS'?
Where should we start? Middle ground? |
No, I can't see much opportunity for 'middle ground' with ISIS. If a country asks our help to fight ISIS, that is a request well worth considering.
I would work on improving relations with the Muslim community so that there was less chance of people being convinced that it was worth dying to take out a citizen who'd never done them any harm. I would want the Muslim community to work with security forces to identify suspects, warn of threats and help apprehend lawbreakers. I would want their help in making sure that terrorist ideology finds no place to grow in our country.
What would you do? | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:55 - Nov 14 with 2311 views | WilloW4 |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:11 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
Completely different ball park. You are trivializing matters and it helps no f'cker.
Its time for proper talk and engagement. |
I don't know what proper talk and engagement is...just picture one of Cameron's aides saying.." Let's start with a nice cup of tea"?... It strikes me there was never a time to talk.. The west is too soft, the terriost know that.. The killing/murders will go on in our life times and beyond.. Talk is cheap and futile... There has to be direct action ..I know people in Luton/Midlands/Bradford, they've all been on social media with very mixed responses to the Paris massacre.. It's on our doorstep . | | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:01 - Nov 14 with 2287 views | derbyhoop |
An overwhelming sense of sympathy for those killed and injured.
Despair that some can have such a warped view of their professed religion and use it as justification for their inhuman actions.
Hope that the intelligence services all around the world can root out these fanatics and prevent any reoccurrence. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:02 - Nov 14 with 2283 views | Pommyhoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:51 - Nov 14 by isawqpratwcity |
No, I can't see much opportunity for 'middle ground' with ISIS. If a country asks our help to fight ISIS, that is a request well worth considering.
I would work on improving relations with the Muslim community so that there was less chance of people being convinced that it was worth dying to take out a citizen who'd never done them any harm. I would want the Muslim community to work with security forces to identify suspects, warn of threats and help apprehend lawbreakers. I would want their help in making sure that terrorist ideology finds no place to grow in our country.
What would you do? |
I'd do exactly what you said.But without bigging up our 'Lucky Country' too much,
I think they might have it worse back there in western Europe | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:12 - Nov 14 with 2244 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:02 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
I'd do exactly what you said.But without bigging up our 'Lucky Country' too much,
I think they might have it worse back there in western Europe |
I was thinking of Oz when I wrote that. Of that 15 yo who was convinced to go shoot that police aide in Sydney, of that bloke in Melbourne who was being egged on to stab some-one at the Anzac Day Parade by a 14 yo from Britain.
But I don't think it's 'war' yet in Oz, or, imo, Britain. Far more to be gained by keeping these communities welcomed in our society. | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:15 - Nov 14 with 2232 views | Dorse |
I can't subscribe to the idea that atrocities like this are the inevitable result of a belief in the metaphysical. That is overly simplistic and, frankly, ignores the issue in favour of saddling up a personal hobby horse. I have said on previous threads that this conflation of belief, faith, religion and politics in order to make a straw man to defeat is unhelpful and makes all further argument redundant as it becomes a competition to see who can shout the loudest.
Rational thought, reason and faith are in no way antithetical to one another. The issue is how leaders use them to control a narrative in order to achieve their end. It has ever been so. Faith is simply a hope for the future based on a belief. We all experience this; it is a fundamental human trait. But it can be, and is, exploited from our politicians telling us that their policies will result in the best of all possible worlds to an advertiser showing pretty women throwing themselves at people wearing Lynx. We choose to either adopt or reject the offer based on what we hope for the future.
Those responsible for this atrocity have freely chosen to adopt a narrative that is at odds with what the rest of their religious peers believe and hope for their collective future. These imbeciles seem to have missed the simple fact that at the end of every single one of their rak'ah, in all of their salah, they pray for peace in the world! To call them Muslim is to akin to calling every Irishman a terrorist because of the Troubles. Or every QPR fan a kunt because of that cretin pictured saluting at Nurnburg during the 06 World Cup.
They are deluded, self-obsessed idiots who desperately want to feel that their pointless little lives have more value than everyone else's because only they can prevent the desecration of their planet by filthy ideologies that don't jibe with their insular, Walter Mitty-like zeitgeist.
The West is evil? Where are all the innocent Muslims from Syria et al, on whose behalf they claim to struggle, running to? For fcuk's fcuking sake. The implication is, therefore, that only the terrorists have got their religion right, otherwise all the others would be delighted to stay! Since that isn't the case, I'm forced to conclude that the opposite is true.
Fcuk it. I've had enough of this shite.
Peace. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:17 - Nov 14 with 2224 views | WilloW4 |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:12 - Nov 14 by isawqpratwcity |
I was thinking of Oz when I wrote that. Of that 15 yo who was convinced to go shoot that police aide in Sydney, of that bloke in Melbourne who was being egged on to stab some-one at the Anzac Day Parade by a 14 yo from Britain.
But I don't think it's 'war' yet in Oz, or, imo, Britain. Far more to be gained by keeping these communities welcomed in our society. |
I get your point Mate but there seems to be thousands of 'kids' being indoctutrinated into having a 'go' at us, mostly British born, according to world news. | | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:18 - Nov 14 with 2224 views | BromleyHoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 14:47 - Nov 14 by Pommyhoop |
WW2 ??
They did it in the 70's and 80's in Norn Iron.It didn't work back then and I don't think it would work now. |
I think if you interned those most likely to cause a terrorist atrocity preventing the loss of life of hundreds of innocent people then that would be regarded as a success. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 15:18]
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:22 - Nov 14 with 2208 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:15 - Nov 14 by Dorse |
I can't subscribe to the idea that atrocities like this are the inevitable result of a belief in the metaphysical. That is overly simplistic and, frankly, ignores the issue in favour of saddling up a personal hobby horse. I have said on previous threads that this conflation of belief, faith, religion and politics in order to make a straw man to defeat is unhelpful and makes all further argument redundant as it becomes a competition to see who can shout the loudest.
Rational thought, reason and faith are in no way antithetical to one another. The issue is how leaders use them to control a narrative in order to achieve their end. It has ever been so. Faith is simply a hope for the future based on a belief. We all experience this; it is a fundamental human trait. But it can be, and is, exploited from our politicians telling us that their policies will result in the best of all possible worlds to an advertiser showing pretty women throwing themselves at people wearing Lynx. We choose to either adopt or reject the offer based on what we hope for the future.
Those responsible for this atrocity have freely chosen to adopt a narrative that is at odds with what the rest of their religious peers believe and hope for their collective future. These imbeciles seem to have missed the simple fact that at the end of every single one of their rak'ah, in all of their salah, they pray for peace in the world! To call them Muslim is to akin to calling every Irishman a terrorist because of the Troubles. Or every QPR fan a kunt because of that cretin pictured saluting at Nurnburg during the 06 World Cup.
They are deluded, self-obsessed idiots who desperately want to feel that their pointless little lives have more value than everyone else's because only they can prevent the desecration of their planet by filthy ideologies that don't jibe with their insular, Walter Mitty-like zeitgeist.
The West is evil? Where are all the innocent Muslims from Syria et al, on whose behalf they claim to struggle, running to? For fcuk's fcuking sake. The implication is, therefore, that only the terrorists have got their religion right, otherwise all the others would be delighted to stay! Since that isn't the case, I'm forced to conclude that the opposite is true.
Fcuk it. I've had enough of this shite.
Peace. |
That was cogent, informed and well reasoned.
Who are you and how did you get Dorse's log in password? | |
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| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:25 - Nov 14 with 2192 views | richranger |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 13:46 - Nov 14 by isawqpratwcity |
Fair comment.
Two situations I didn't think would ever work out the way they did were Northern Ireland and South Africa. Don't give up. |
Isn't it weird that the guy that helped bring peace to Northern Ireland was one of the biggest proponents of the Iraq war, which led to the vacuum of power in which IS flourished?
You've got a lot to answer for Tony Blair! | | | |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:30 - Nov 14 with 2183 views | Pommyhoop |
| Bombs at France game and shooting on 15:18 - Nov 14 by BromleyHoop |
I think if you interned those most likely to cause a terrorist atrocity preventing the loss of life of hundreds of innocent people then that would be regarded as a success. [Post edited 14 Nov 2015 15:18]
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And if because of said internments and then the deaths of the hunger strikers you increased recruitment of the IRA and then knock on effect the UDA etc, twenty fold you would not think it was a success.
Interment killed far more than it saved, believe me. | |
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