| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 10:47 - Jan 24 with 1679 views | DaleiLama |
As the league stands now, two teams are on 1 ppg, Dale and the Cobblers, with Dale having a better GD. There are 4 teams with less than 1ppg, Wombles on 0.956 Pie-eaters on .954, Swindon on 0.913 and Brewers on 0.666 (seems a better number for Posh that one?) The gas, despite being below us in the current table, are ahead of us on ppg (1.047). So if the season finished now we'd be safe, but the margin for error is tissue thin. Shrews are 1.14 in 17th with 2 games in hand of us. So it's all very tight at the bottom in more ways than one, with seven teams very much in the mix currently, subject to good and bad runs from any of those seven or bad from any others above. As Shun points out, we are not nailed on for relegation yet and for Dale, at the half way point, we have to learn the lessons of the first half of the season. We have still conceded third most goals this season and we aren't scoring enough to offset all those, but the bigger question is why should we have to?
With regards to recruitment, the question for me is can the current squad under BBM stop conceding goals? If the answer is no (and the evidence certainly supports that theory currently), we need to recruit. Having said that, one thing that seems to be missing from a BBM team versus a KH team is cover. Keith liked to turn out attacking sides and they often marauded up the wing in a pair with a full back and winger in tandem, but a thing that always seemed to feature was that the team would reorganise with someone slotting back to cover the vacant spot caused by whoever supported the attack. That seems to be missing too often now and we are too often over-exposed as a result. It shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Unless we don't have the right players to fix it? [Post edited 24 Jan 2021 10:51]
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:11 - Jan 24 with 1607 views | Nigeriamark |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 10:47 - Jan 24 by DaleiLama |
As the league stands now, two teams are on 1 ppg, Dale and the Cobblers, with Dale having a better GD. There are 4 teams with less than 1ppg, Wombles on 0.956 Pie-eaters on .954, Swindon on 0.913 and Brewers on 0.666 (seems a better number for Posh that one?) The gas, despite being below us in the current table, are ahead of us on ppg (1.047). So if the season finished now we'd be safe, but the margin for error is tissue thin. Shrews are 1.14 in 17th with 2 games in hand of us. So it's all very tight at the bottom in more ways than one, with seven teams very much in the mix currently, subject to good and bad runs from any of those seven or bad from any others above. As Shun points out, we are not nailed on for relegation yet and for Dale, at the half way point, we have to learn the lessons of the first half of the season. We have still conceded third most goals this season and we aren't scoring enough to offset all those, but the bigger question is why should we have to?
With regards to recruitment, the question for me is can the current squad under BBM stop conceding goals? If the answer is no (and the evidence certainly supports that theory currently), we need to recruit. Having said that, one thing that seems to be missing from a BBM team versus a KH team is cover. Keith liked to turn out attacking sides and they often marauded up the wing in a pair with a full back and winger in tandem, but a thing that always seemed to feature was that the team would reorganise with someone slotting back to cover the vacant spot caused by whoever supported the attack. That seems to be missing too often now and we are too often over-exposed as a result. It shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Unless we don't have the right players to fix it? [Post edited 24 Jan 2021 10:51]
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With EOC and or McShane back I think that would strengthen us at the back. However that assumes McLaughlin doesn't get injured too often which is a big ask. If one of the 2 mentioned CBs comes back, can the new lad play left FB. If not then as mentioned by many we need to bring someone in here. If Ryan cannot get fir then a solid midfielder would also be required. I would doubt at this stage that we could go beyond bringing 2 in if we can't offload anyone. I think we have to stick with what we have going forward ( still one of the top scoring teams in the league) and pray we don't get a bad run of long term injuries
[Post edited 24 Jan 2021 13:25]
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:34 - Jan 24 with 1544 views | fitzochris |
Relying on PPG is a dangerous lottery, to the point I’ve stopped looking at it. The EFL is telling clubs its primary intention is to keep games going. Now, that might be taken out of its hands at some point, but it shows me that it won’t be happening lightly.
So, as DaleiLama points out, there is a scrap to be had between a good number of teams still to come down at the bottom and the margin for error is infinitesimal. That is why I can’t subscribe to the idea that because we’ve been where we are currently for most of the season that it’ll be alright on the night. I’m not ridiculing those who hold that point of view, I just don’t share it.
I think that unless BBM takes certain steps with regards to the defence and instruction, as pointed out by 442 on this thread, and me on Twitter after most games, I believe we will succumb to that margin for error. I also believe that we need defensive cover for injuries and a left back. I’m fortunate enough to know that work is under way on the latter, which is reassuring, but extra bodies need to be aligned with effective, collective instruction. [Post edited 24 Jan 2021 11:52]
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:54 - Jan 24 with 1501 views | IOMDale |
Fitz, without being able to offload anybody, is that all the wiggle room BBM has, to bring a LB in?
Worrying if so, as we clearly need a couple more on top of that. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:58 - Jan 24 with 1472 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:11 - Jan 24 by Nigeriamark |
With EOC and or McShane back I think that would strengthen us at the back. However that assumes McLaughlin doesn't get injured too often which is a big ask. If one of the 2 mentioned CBs comes back, can the new lad play left FB. If not then as mentioned by many we need to bring someone in here. If Ryan cannot get fir then a solid midfielder would also be required. I would doubt at this stage that we could go beyond bringing 2 in if we can't offload anyone. I think we have to stick with what we have going forward ( still one of the top scoring teams in the league) and pray we don't get a bad run of long term injuries
[Post edited 24 Jan 2021 13:25]
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I think the new lad is a right-back/right-sided central defender, certainly going off what we saw yesterday. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:01 - Jan 24 with 1470 views | fitzochris |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:54 - Jan 24 by IOMDale |
Fitz, without being able to offload anybody, is that all the wiggle room BBM has, to bring a LB in?
Worrying if so, as we clearly need a couple more on top of that. |
I don’t know what the internal machinations are, as I get my info externally - but I know that who BBM can bring in is dictated to by who we move out rather than how many we move out, if that makes sense?
The problem BBM has on that score is that pretty much every other club in Leagues One and Two are operating under the same constraints.
So, I believe he will get at least another centre back/DM type and a left back, but they may not be the first choices for those roles.
We just have to watch this space. | |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:02 - Jan 24 with 1457 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:34 - Jan 24 by fitzochris |
Relying on PPG is a dangerous lottery, to the point I’ve stopped looking at it. The EFL is telling clubs its primary intention is to keep games going. Now, that might be taken out of its hands at some point, but it shows me that it won’t be happening lightly.
So, as DaleiLama points out, there is a scrap to be had between a good number of teams still to come down at the bottom and the margin for error is infinitesimal. That is why I can’t subscribe to the idea that because we’ve been where we are currently for most of the season that it’ll be alright on the night. I’m not ridiculing those who hold that point of view, I just don’t share it.
I think that unless BBM takes certain steps with regards to the defence and instruction, as pointed out by 442 on this thread, and me on Twitter after most games, I believe we will succumb to that margin for error. I also believe that we need defensive cover for injuries and a left back. I’m fortunate enough to know that work is under way on the latter, which is reassuring, but extra bodies need to be aligned with effective, collective instruction. [Post edited 24 Jan 2021 11:52]
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In 1986/87, Lincoln were bottom of the league for one day all season; that being the final day of the campaign when they were relegated to the Vauxhall Conference.
I know that's a solitary example, but it shows that lots can change between now and May regardless of what's gone on between now and last September. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:05 - Jan 24 with 1445 views | fitzochris |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:02 - Jan 24 by TVOS1907 |
In 1986/87, Lincoln were bottom of the league for one day all season; that being the final day of the campaign when they were relegated to the Vauxhall Conference.
I know that's a solitary example, but it shows that lots can change between now and May regardless of what's gone on between now and last September. |
Precisely. | |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:29 - Jan 24 with 1397 views | electricblue |
Nice to see Baah celebrating the 2nd goal like he did....... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:29 - Jan 24 with 1396 views | IOMDale |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:01 - Jan 24 by fitzochris |
I don’t know what the internal machinations are, as I get my info externally - but I know that who BBM can bring in is dictated to by who we move out rather than how many we move out, if that makes sense?
The problem BBM has on that score is that pretty much every other club in Leagues One and Two are operating under the same constraints.
So, I believe he will get at least another centre back/DM type and a left back, but they may not be the first choices for those roles.
We just have to watch this space. |
The biggest ‘who’ being Done, no doubt (in terms of salary).
Got to be somebody in League Two who’s struggling for goals and wants to take his contract over to the end of the season...  | | | |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:34 - Jan 24 with 1383 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:34 - Jan 24 by fitzochris |
Relying on PPG is a dangerous lottery, to the point I’ve stopped looking at it. The EFL is telling clubs its primary intention is to keep games going. Now, that might be taken out of its hands at some point, but it shows me that it won’t be happening lightly.
So, as DaleiLama points out, there is a scrap to be had between a good number of teams still to come down at the bottom and the margin for error is infinitesimal. That is why I can’t subscribe to the idea that because we’ve been where we are currently for most of the season that it’ll be alright on the night. I’m not ridiculing those who hold that point of view, I just don’t share it.
I think that unless BBM takes certain steps with regards to the defence and instruction, as pointed out by 442 on this thread, and me on Twitter after most games, I believe we will succumb to that margin for error. I also believe that we need defensive cover for injuries and a left back. I’m fortunate enough to know that work is under way on the latter, which is reassuring, but extra bodies need to be aligned with effective, collective instruction. [Post edited 24 Jan 2021 11:52]
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Without making it an issue whatsoever, i'd point out there's plenty more than just yourself and 442 making valid points about our defensive frailties, some of them may have even made those points before either! |  |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:38 - Jan 24 with 1361 views | fitzochris |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:34 - Jan 24 by D_Alien |
Without making it an issue whatsoever, i'd point out there's plenty more than just yourself and 442 making valid points about our defensive frailties, some of them may have even made those points before either! |
Sorry, you’re absolutely correct - I’m certainly not a lone voice on this, although it can feel like that away from this forum. | |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:45 - Jan 24 with 1334 views | Shun |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:02 - Jan 24 by TVOS1907 |
In 1986/87, Lincoln were bottom of the league for one day all season; that being the final day of the campaign when they were relegated to the Vauxhall Conference.
I know that's a solitary example, but it shows that lots can change between now and May regardless of what's gone on between now and last September. |
And that’s absolutely plausible, we may well still go down. What I and others object to is being told that without defensive recruits it’s a done deal that we’ll be relegated, as probability doesn’t support that.
I haven’t seen my opinion mocked specifically, but others’ have been treated with a dismissive ‘ok’ or told that any opinion that doesn’t match the one above doesn’t see sense.
As for the blogger, I assume one of the ones you’re referring to is Gabriel Sutton? I find it hard to imagine him throwing his toys out of the pram, based on his temperament across social media. And the only opinion I remember him having on Henderson was that a lot of our attacks went through him, and his departure might free us up to attack more fluidly. That seems to be quite prescient as we’re a more effective attacking side now than at any point in the past few years. |  | | |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:51 - Jan 24 with 1330 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:38 - Jan 24 by fitzochris |
Sorry, you’re absolutely correct - I’m certainly not a lone voice on this, although it can feel like that away from this forum. |
Best of luck with that on other media, i steer well clear!
While BBM says he doesn't look at the table (just blather, of course) i agree there no point in taking much notice of PPG unless something even more awful appears on the virus front which forces the hands of the government/EFL ahead of the vaccination programme starting to take effect, hopefully within the next month | |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:56 - Jan 24 with 1312 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:45 - Jan 24 by Shun |
And that’s absolutely plausible, we may well still go down. What I and others object to is being told that without defensive recruits it’s a done deal that we’ll be relegated, as probability doesn’t support that.
I haven’t seen my opinion mocked specifically, but others’ have been treated with a dismissive ‘ok’ or told that any opinion that doesn’t match the one above doesn’t see sense.
As for the blogger, I assume one of the ones you’re referring to is Gabriel Sutton? I find it hard to imagine him throwing his toys out of the pram, based on his temperament across social media. And the only opinion I remember him having on Henderson was that a lot of our attacks went through him, and his departure might free us up to attack more fluidly. That seems to be quite prescient as we’re a more effective attacking side now than at any point in the past few years. |
Your last paragraph is a joy to read, even though i appreciate your crediting it elsewhere. It puts a finger on precisely why i was pleased to see him leave | |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:09 - Jan 24 with 1266 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:45 - Jan 24 by Shun |
And that’s absolutely plausible, we may well still go down. What I and others object to is being told that without defensive recruits it’s a done deal that we’ll be relegated, as probability doesn’t support that.
I haven’t seen my opinion mocked specifically, but others’ have been treated with a dismissive ‘ok’ or told that any opinion that doesn’t match the one above doesn’t see sense.
As for the blogger, I assume one of the ones you’re referring to is Gabriel Sutton? I find it hard to imagine him throwing his toys out of the pram, based on his temperament across social media. And the only opinion I remember him having on Henderson was that a lot of our attacks went through him, and his departure might free us up to attack more fluidly. That seems to be quite prescient as we’re a more effective attacking side now than at any point in the past few years. |
It was his comments about Henderson's release rather than his playing influence. I can't be bothered finding the tweet now, as it was last June, but when challenged, he responded with "There are plenty of other views you can read if you don't like mine" (or words to that effect).
In other words, he couldn't/wouldn't engage in any form of debate over it as he didn't really know enough about the subject matter and was basing his views on what he reads on Twitter or from the handful of fans of each club he engages with.
As has been mentioned, he also challenged Fitzo on something, while at the same time admitting he actually hadn't seen any of our games this season!
I haven't seen any responses of a dismissive "ok" type or the like. Not saying they aren't there, but I've missed them. Can you provide some examples, particularly in response to Fitzo's well-reasoned views? [Post edited 24 Jan 2021 13:13]
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| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:10 - Jan 24 with 1263 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:29 - Jan 24 by electricblue |
Nice to see Baah celebrating the 2nd goal like he did....... |
How did he celebrate it? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:12 - Jan 24 with 1257 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:34 - Jan 24 by D_Alien |
Without making it an issue whatsoever, i'd point out there's plenty more than just yourself and 442 making valid points about our defensive frailties, some of them may have even made those points before either! |
I think Fitzo's referring more to the way his views have been criticised on Twitter more than anywhere else, especially by people who don't even watch our games! | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:25 - Jan 24 with 1225 views | D_Alien |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:12 - Jan 24 by TVOS1907 |
I think Fitzo's referring more to the way his views have been criticised on Twitter more than anywhere else, especially by people who don't even watch our games! |
Yes, i followed that in agreement; just thought it unnecessary to cite himself & 442 when others have made very similar points. Sorted, anyway
It's not the same as attributing views to Fitz made by someone else on another thread, though  | |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:31 - Jan 24 with 1202 views | Nigeriamark |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:25 - Jan 24 by D_Alien |
Yes, i followed that in agreement; just thought it unnecessary to cite himself & 442 when others have made very similar points. Sorted, anyway
It's not the same as attributing views to Fitz made by someone else on another thread, though |
Yes, some people just don't take care or check when posting. Wouldn't catch me doing that  | | | |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:33 - Jan 24 with 1195 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:31 - Jan 24 by Nigeriamark |
Yes, some people just don't take care or check when posting. Wouldn't catch me doing that |
Good job Humphrys wasn't playing yesterday.... | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 13:57 - Jan 24 with 1132 views | firgrovedale51 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 11:11 - Jan 24 by Nigeriamark |
With EOC and or McShane back I think that would strengthen us at the back. However that assumes McLaughlin doesn't get injured too often which is a big ask. If one of the 2 mentioned CBs comes back, can the new lad play left FB. If not then as mentioned by many we need to bring someone in here. If Ryan cannot get fir then a solid midfielder would also be required. I would doubt at this stage that we could go beyond bringing 2 in if we can't offload anyone. I think we have to stick with what we have going forward ( still one of the top scoring teams in the league) and pray we don't get a bad run of long term injuries
[Post edited 24 Jan 2021 13:25]
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If we get a full back in Keohane can play in his proper position in midfield |  | | |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 14:08 - Jan 24 with 1105 views | judd |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 12:45 - Jan 24 by Shun |
And that’s absolutely plausible, we may well still go down. What I and others object to is being told that without defensive recruits it’s a done deal that we’ll be relegated, as probability doesn’t support that.
I haven’t seen my opinion mocked specifically, but others’ have been treated with a dismissive ‘ok’ or told that any opinion that doesn’t match the one above doesn’t see sense.
As for the blogger, I assume one of the ones you’re referring to is Gabriel Sutton? I find it hard to imagine him throwing his toys out of the pram, based on his temperament across social media. And the only opinion I remember him having on Henderson was that a lot of our attacks went through him, and his departure might free us up to attack more fluidly. That seems to be quite prescient as we’re a more effective attacking side now than at any point in the past few years. |
You're absolutely right about probability not supporting relegation.
However, I do think that by not addressing our achilles heel then risk becomes far more prominent.
I cannot accept the "no money" argument when new positions have been created and filled off the field, and the lack of investment in the first team playing squad may prove more costly next and subsequent seasons.
You make a very fair point about the attack focus this season without Henderson, but please do not think that Hendo was let go for football reasons AT ALL. |  |
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| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 14:45 - Jan 24 with 1025 views | Shun |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 14:08 - Jan 24 by judd |
You're absolutely right about probability not supporting relegation.
However, I do think that by not addressing our achilles heel then risk becomes far more prominent.
I cannot accept the "no money" argument when new positions have been created and filled off the field, and the lack of investment in the first team playing squad may prove more costly next and subsequent seasons.
You make a very fair point about the attack focus this season without Henderson, but please do not think that Hendo was let go for football reasons AT ALL. |
Absolutely, I remember the discussions about Henderson’s departure at the time and I have no reason at all to doubt them.
To TVOS - fair enough, I must have missed that discussion about Henderson’s leaving. Apologies if that’s what took place, it just seems out of character for him based on what I’ve seen on social media. | | | |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 14:54 - Jan 24 with 989 views | TVOS1907 |
| Match Thread: Gillingham v Rochdale on 14:45 - Jan 24 by Shun |
Absolutely, I remember the discussions about Henderson’s departure at the time and I have no reason at all to doubt them.
To TVOS - fair enough, I must have missed that discussion about Henderson’s leaving. Apologies if that’s what took place, it just seems out of character for him based on what I’ve seen on social media. |
Fair enough from me as well.
It was along the lines of what they said on Quest; i.e. a bit one-sided. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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