| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! 18:44 - Aug 8 with 8672 views | BedfordR |
Ok, the second half and the result today are poor, very poor, but ask yourself why any player/manager/coach would want to be involved with our club?!
The players get slated and booed after one poor performance. One. Possibly even only one half, if we are honest. Polter got 10 minutes today and yet someone behind me proudly announced that he is 'f***ing useless' and should 'f**k off back to Germany'. Konchesky was another to come in for it. First half, when the players were trying to pass the ball around and create things with possession football, people around me were moaning that we needed to go more direct. More direct!! Second half the same fans were moaning that we were just hoofing it!
Football is all about opinions, and we will all have differing opinions about who is good, who isn't etc. However I am really struggling to see why we have so many fans that are so keen to get on the players backs if they aren't 3-0 up by half time.
If Austin had any thoughts about staying (I'm not suggesting he does, I imagine he has known he is going to leave for months) then being booed off the pitch today will only have killed those thoughts off completely.
Just fed up with the negativity at Rangers, why can't we turn up and back the team for 90 minutes each week?! |  | | |  |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 22:05 - Aug 8 with 2345 views | WilloW4 |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 21:42 - Aug 8 by Blue_Castello |
Just to confirm Kpekewa had a broken hand and was not available for selection, Yunns injured for approx 1 month, Robinsons out till April approx and Traore is just completely pony and he's also injured.
Konchesky was the only available option and he will not be first choice all season..... [Post edited 8 Aug 2015 21:44]
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..and traore is completely pony".....well said blue castello..! |  | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 16:54 - Aug 9 with 2112 views | Ingham |
It would be negative if supporters booed great performances and jeered them following win after win after win.
True, it is only the first game, but shouldn't that criticism be directed at the people representing the Club? Why should anyone get behind these mercenaries after only one performance, and that not a good one, long before they've done enough to show us that they have the Club's best interests at heart? Let them win some games and SHOW us that they're worth getting behind. Plenty more where they come from (as we know with the annual cull of losers practically every season, and the annual debate about whether we should give them time when other Clubs seem able to win matches before Christmas).
The supporters' loyalty is without question, and their backing, whatever their opinions, is 100%. It is to the Club, but that's what we support. Supporting GOOD players, players whose performances are positive - and measurably, quantifiably so - that makes sense. Getting behind the others, is that in the Club's interest? They aren't in the least sentimental about QPR if a bigger payday somewhere else looms, so sauce for the goose ...
But why should supporters show confidence in the players when they have none in themselves? If the players believe in their own talent, why don't THEY put their money where their mouth is and take their pay only when they win? The Club registers losses - big, enormous or stupendous losses - year in and year out subsidising the lifestyles of these people, while the supporters pay through the nose to support their Club.
If they were paid when they won, the pressure would be on them. When they had one of their regular losing runs, it would be THEIR problem to sort it out. Not ours, for noticing that they were rubbish. They might have an incentive to DO something. When do we ever hear that THEY've take the bull by the horns and improved their OWN game, individually and collectively?
We still play the Boardroom game of dropping the manager, to cover up the players and the directors lack of talent.
Of course, the players won't agree to any such thing, because they aren't committed first and foremost to the Club's results, any more than their astronomical wages (even in this division) contribute to its (non-existent) profitability.
And why? Because the players' representatives are the real talent in the game. If their negotiations were carried out by the Club's chairmen, they'd be millions in debt, and the Clubs would be rolling in money. That isn't the players' fault, it is the ONE THING we should admire them for, and EMULATE. Not the pretence that doing nothing much will make all the difference, as long as the Club PAYS for quality.
When did we last get it?
The supporters are behind the Club, we know that. ALL of them. All of them are positive about QPR. Being critical of bad performances or results IS positive. They want better, and if these can't deliver it, then we need someone else. If we must have losers, and can't expect quality, let them at least be honest and tell us they are crap.
Otherwise, in default of any candour on their part, it is hardly surprising that the supporters point it out themselves.
I see supporter loyalty and all the positives that sticking to the Club through thick and thin represent, but I don't believe that the players are like that. They're hiding behind their contracts, paid handsomely whether they win or not, whether they deliver tripe like those appalling end of season results last year. Turn up, get slaughtered, who cares? Didn't hear anyone saying 'here's the money back, we were a disgrace'. Maybe I missed it. No, their remedy is to stand back and let the manager take the rap for their shortcomings. Heroic.
This season's team isn't responsible for last year's shambles, but as they haven't done anything worth praising yet, I see no reason why they should get us behind them in advance. If we booed excellence, that would be absurd. But I haven't heard of anything of the kind ever happening. We didn't exactly play well at Wembley, but I didn't hear much booing then.
It would be different if they were on minimum wage, people you could like, who just tried their best. Not people whose wage demands keep them in Easy Street and QPR in Queer Street. Who can blame them for cashing in at QPR's expense, if the mugs who run the Club just hand out money like confetti without making damn sure they get something worth having in return?
Not me. I don't blame them at all for THAT. But I sure as hell don't blame my fellow supporters for letting those who are responsible for the performances know how unsatisfactory they are. If we just swallow it all without demur who WILL stick up for QPR and tell it like it is!
Indeed, isn't it about time the players came out and stuck up for the supporters for a change!
Not with the usual empty platitudes, but demanding to know why they didn't get it right, identifying with the disappointment at all the empty big talk from the boardroom, at the constant coming and going of managers and players, enriching everyone except QPR, asking why the Board make THE CLUB pay for the Board's catastrophic errors, why they dump their losses in the QPR accounts, instead of absorbing them in their own.
Just a different perspective, of course. I can see how better performances from the players, even brilliant performances, could turn things round. Signing better players, come to that. Better managers. Better directors. Better finances. More intelligent decision-making throughout the Club.
But I don't see that endorsing failure over and over again is actually encouraging ANYONE to make things better. Supporters have been backing the Club through dismal seasons for decades and seeing very little respect, let alone quality and commitment from anyone else apart from their fellow supporters.
And isn't the question - an excellent one in itself - about who would come to QPR precisely the RIGHT question to ask? What quality player would come to such an administrative, footballing, managerial and motivational shambles? Surely the flight of anyone with talent from QPR is not that the team were playing brilliantly but the supporters were just nasty, but that no-one with real talent and real prospects would give us a thought.
Making the team play better and getting better results is what is required to make the supporters more positive towards THEM. But that is their fault, not ours. Great results, brilliant performances, and successes get the credit they're due. The negativity is on the pitch. Negative towards the Club in negotiating such expensive and useless contracts. In putting together such useless squads. And giving such ineffectual performances.
This is only one game, and one swallow doesn't make a banquet. But if changing all the negative comments to positive ones will make the slightest difference to performances on the pitch, why do we need all these overpaid underperformers? Why not cut the wage bill, get keen lower league triers, save a fortune, start reducing the debt, and ask the supporters to improve our results and performances by saying more positive things?
The responsibility for delivering is theirs, not ours. When they've done it, certainly, everyone will say thanks. As things stand, it is still 'thanks for nothing'.
If they want praise, let them conduct themselves in a praiseworthy fashion. Only take the pay they earn. Deliver performances that merit praise. | | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 18:12 - Aug 9 with 2033 views | Gruntfuttock |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 16:54 - Aug 9 by Ingham |
It would be negative if supporters booed great performances and jeered them following win after win after win.
True, it is only the first game, but shouldn't that criticism be directed at the people representing the Club? Why should anyone get behind these mercenaries after only one performance, and that not a good one, long before they've done enough to show us that they have the Club's best interests at heart? Let them win some games and SHOW us that they're worth getting behind. Plenty more where they come from (as we know with the annual cull of losers practically every season, and the annual debate about whether we should give them time when other Clubs seem able to win matches before Christmas).
The supporters' loyalty is without question, and their backing, whatever their opinions, is 100%. It is to the Club, but that's what we support. Supporting GOOD players, players whose performances are positive - and measurably, quantifiably so - that makes sense. Getting behind the others, is that in the Club's interest? They aren't in the least sentimental about QPR if a bigger payday somewhere else looms, so sauce for the goose ...
But why should supporters show confidence in the players when they have none in themselves? If the players believe in their own talent, why don't THEY put their money where their mouth is and take their pay only when they win? The Club registers losses - big, enormous or stupendous losses - year in and year out subsidising the lifestyles of these people, while the supporters pay through the nose to support their Club.
If they were paid when they won, the pressure would be on them. When they had one of their regular losing runs, it would be THEIR problem to sort it out. Not ours, for noticing that they were rubbish. They might have an incentive to DO something. When do we ever hear that THEY've take the bull by the horns and improved their OWN game, individually and collectively?
We still play the Boardroom game of dropping the manager, to cover up the players and the directors lack of talent.
Of course, the players won't agree to any such thing, because they aren't committed first and foremost to the Club's results, any more than their astronomical wages (even in this division) contribute to its (non-existent) profitability.
And why? Because the players' representatives are the real talent in the game. If their negotiations were carried out by the Club's chairmen, they'd be millions in debt, and the Clubs would be rolling in money. That isn't the players' fault, it is the ONE THING we should admire them for, and EMULATE. Not the pretence that doing nothing much will make all the difference, as long as the Club PAYS for quality.
When did we last get it?
The supporters are behind the Club, we know that. ALL of them. All of them are positive about QPR. Being critical of bad performances or results IS positive. They want better, and if these can't deliver it, then we need someone else. If we must have losers, and can't expect quality, let them at least be honest and tell us they are crap.
Otherwise, in default of any candour on their part, it is hardly surprising that the supporters point it out themselves.
I see supporter loyalty and all the positives that sticking to the Club through thick and thin represent, but I don't believe that the players are like that. They're hiding behind their contracts, paid handsomely whether they win or not, whether they deliver tripe like those appalling end of season results last year. Turn up, get slaughtered, who cares? Didn't hear anyone saying 'here's the money back, we were a disgrace'. Maybe I missed it. No, their remedy is to stand back and let the manager take the rap for their shortcomings. Heroic.
This season's team isn't responsible for last year's shambles, but as they haven't done anything worth praising yet, I see no reason why they should get us behind them in advance. If we booed excellence, that would be absurd. But I haven't heard of anything of the kind ever happening. We didn't exactly play well at Wembley, but I didn't hear much booing then.
It would be different if they were on minimum wage, people you could like, who just tried their best. Not people whose wage demands keep them in Easy Street and QPR in Queer Street. Who can blame them for cashing in at QPR's expense, if the mugs who run the Club just hand out money like confetti without making damn sure they get something worth having in return?
Not me. I don't blame them at all for THAT. But I sure as hell don't blame my fellow supporters for letting those who are responsible for the performances know how unsatisfactory they are. If we just swallow it all without demur who WILL stick up for QPR and tell it like it is!
Indeed, isn't it about time the players came out and stuck up for the supporters for a change!
Not with the usual empty platitudes, but demanding to know why they didn't get it right, identifying with the disappointment at all the empty big talk from the boardroom, at the constant coming and going of managers and players, enriching everyone except QPR, asking why the Board make THE CLUB pay for the Board's catastrophic errors, why they dump their losses in the QPR accounts, instead of absorbing them in their own.
Just a different perspective, of course. I can see how better performances from the players, even brilliant performances, could turn things round. Signing better players, come to that. Better managers. Better directors. Better finances. More intelligent decision-making throughout the Club.
But I don't see that endorsing failure over and over again is actually encouraging ANYONE to make things better. Supporters have been backing the Club through dismal seasons for decades and seeing very little respect, let alone quality and commitment from anyone else apart from their fellow supporters.
And isn't the question - an excellent one in itself - about who would come to QPR precisely the RIGHT question to ask? What quality player would come to such an administrative, footballing, managerial and motivational shambles? Surely the flight of anyone with talent from QPR is not that the team were playing brilliantly but the supporters were just nasty, but that no-one with real talent and real prospects would give us a thought.
Making the team play better and getting better results is what is required to make the supporters more positive towards THEM. But that is their fault, not ours. Great results, brilliant performances, and successes get the credit they're due. The negativity is on the pitch. Negative towards the Club in negotiating such expensive and useless contracts. In putting together such useless squads. And giving such ineffectual performances.
This is only one game, and one swallow doesn't make a banquet. But if changing all the negative comments to positive ones will make the slightest difference to performances on the pitch, why do we need all these overpaid underperformers? Why not cut the wage bill, get keen lower league triers, save a fortune, start reducing the debt, and ask the supporters to improve our results and performances by saying more positive things?
The responsibility for delivering is theirs, not ours. When they've done it, certainly, everyone will say thanks. As things stand, it is still 'thanks for nothing'.
If they want praise, let them conduct themselves in a praiseworthy fashion. Only take the pay they earn. Deliver performances that merit praise. |
I was just thinking the same thing... |  | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 10:45 - Aug 10 with 1915 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 21:58 - Aug 8 by CHUBBS |
Even still there must have been a cheaper younger option.
I hope we haven't signed him up to a season long loan. |
Christ almighty Chubbs. We have a massive issue at left back with all the uinjuries, he signs a player on loan, an experienced one, which is only sensible under the circumstances.
Can you let it go? I was as critical of Redknapp as anyone else - and earlier - but even I can see Konchesky is a sensible loan move.
Pretty sure Kpekawa is also a CB pressed into service as an LB as well. |  |
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 10:56 - Aug 10 with 1897 views | adhoc_qpr |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 10:45 - Aug 10 by Antti_Heinola |
Christ almighty Chubbs. We have a massive issue at left back with all the uinjuries, he signs a player on loan, an experienced one, which is only sensible under the circumstances.
Can you let it go? I was as critical of Redknapp as anyone else - and earlier - but even I can see Konchesky is a sensible loan move.
Pretty sure Kpekawa is also a CB pressed into service as an LB as well. |
Hopefully Yun will be back in 4-6 weeks and then maybe we can play with attacking fullbacks (which a 4-3-3 really needs).
I'm sure Konchesky will improve to his normal level of bog standard given more than a week at the club. | | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 10:58 - Aug 10 with 1890 views | londonscottish |
+1 |  |
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 12:12 - Aug 11 with 1833 views | R_from_afar |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 19:03 - Aug 8 by CHUBBS |
The owner has spent top 6 Premier league money yet we sit at the bottom of the championship.
I know its only one game but when you spend that sort of money expectations go through the roof and that kills the atmosphere when they are not reached.
Its all down to TF. |
Expectations may well have gone through the roof but they need to remain grounded in reality. We won't win every game. Players will have bad games. We will not find a whole squad of players like Jamie Mackie, i.e. willing to bust a gut for Rangers.
Also, the expectations were raised before TF ever turned up. It all started when GP sold up. I remember fans lambasting Jay Simpson, the man whose goals kept us up, when he missed a chance in a meaningless game at the end of the season. They were yelling at him to f off back to Arsenal. I felt truly ashamed to be a Rangers fan and that sort of behaviour still has the same effect on me.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 12:20 - Aug 11 with 1827 views | R_from_afar |
Absolutely spot on. Some fans need to think very carefully about the sort of club their unrealistic expectations and hostile criticism are creating.
There is a very real danger of creating such a toxic atmosphere that the only players - and coaching staff - who will want to come here are pure mercenaries who'll work for us if we pay silly money, people who lack the necessary talent and the occasional die-hard Rangers fan who also happens to be a footballer or coach.
We are right to expect 100% effort and commitment but if we keep hammering players for every mistake, they will become too scared to ask for the ball. They'll just hide and let someone else risk the avalanche of criticism which a mistake generates.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:28 - Aug 11 with 1792 views | SpiritofGregory |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 10:45 - Aug 10 by Antti_Heinola |
Christ almighty Chubbs. We have a massive issue at left back with all the uinjuries, he signs a player on loan, an experienced one, which is only sensible under the circumstances.
Can you let it go? I was as critical of Redknapp as anyone else - and earlier - but even I can see Konchesky is a sensible loan move.
Pretty sure Kpekawa is also a CB pressed into service as an LB as well. |
Konchesky was a lazy signing. We all know his is not up to the task. |  | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:46 - Aug 11 with 1771 views | derbyhoop |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:28 - Aug 11 by SpiritofGregory |
Konchesky was a lazy signing. We all know his is not up to the task. |
Is that why he played 29 times for Leicester in the Premier League? He must have gone downhill more rapidly than SKi Sunday.
And the alternatives were Robinson (injured), Yun (injured), Traore (injured), Kpekawa (injured), Hill (incapable of playing LB to an acceptable level). [Post edited 11 Aug 2015 13:47]
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| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:46 - Aug 11 with 1768 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:28 - Aug 11 by SpiritofGregory |
Konchesky was a lazy signing. We all know his is not up to the task. |
Not having a go for a change, but am genuinely curious:
In your opinion what was the last positive thing QPR did? Signing or otherwise? |  | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:47 - Aug 11 with 1765 views | R_from_afar |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 16:54 - Aug 9 by Ingham |
It would be negative if supporters booed great performances and jeered them following win after win after win.
True, it is only the first game, but shouldn't that criticism be directed at the people representing the Club? Why should anyone get behind these mercenaries after only one performance, and that not a good one, long before they've done enough to show us that they have the Club's best interests at heart? Let them win some games and SHOW us that they're worth getting behind. Plenty more where they come from (as we know with the annual cull of losers practically every season, and the annual debate about whether we should give them time when other Clubs seem able to win matches before Christmas).
The supporters' loyalty is without question, and their backing, whatever their opinions, is 100%. It is to the Club, but that's what we support. Supporting GOOD players, players whose performances are positive - and measurably, quantifiably so - that makes sense. Getting behind the others, is that in the Club's interest? They aren't in the least sentimental about QPR if a bigger payday somewhere else looms, so sauce for the goose ...
But why should supporters show confidence in the players when they have none in themselves? If the players believe in their own talent, why don't THEY put their money where their mouth is and take their pay only when they win? The Club registers losses - big, enormous or stupendous losses - year in and year out subsidising the lifestyles of these people, while the supporters pay through the nose to support their Club.
If they were paid when they won, the pressure would be on them. When they had one of their regular losing runs, it would be THEIR problem to sort it out. Not ours, for noticing that they were rubbish. They might have an incentive to DO something. When do we ever hear that THEY've take the bull by the horns and improved their OWN game, individually and collectively?
We still play the Boardroom game of dropping the manager, to cover up the players and the directors lack of talent.
Of course, the players won't agree to any such thing, because they aren't committed first and foremost to the Club's results, any more than their astronomical wages (even in this division) contribute to its (non-existent) profitability.
And why? Because the players' representatives are the real talent in the game. If their negotiations were carried out by the Club's chairmen, they'd be millions in debt, and the Clubs would be rolling in money. That isn't the players' fault, it is the ONE THING we should admire them for, and EMULATE. Not the pretence that doing nothing much will make all the difference, as long as the Club PAYS for quality.
When did we last get it?
The supporters are behind the Club, we know that. ALL of them. All of them are positive about QPR. Being critical of bad performances or results IS positive. They want better, and if these can't deliver it, then we need someone else. If we must have losers, and can't expect quality, let them at least be honest and tell us they are crap.
Otherwise, in default of any candour on their part, it is hardly surprising that the supporters point it out themselves.
I see supporter loyalty and all the positives that sticking to the Club through thick and thin represent, but I don't believe that the players are like that. They're hiding behind their contracts, paid handsomely whether they win or not, whether they deliver tripe like those appalling end of season results last year. Turn up, get slaughtered, who cares? Didn't hear anyone saying 'here's the money back, we were a disgrace'. Maybe I missed it. No, their remedy is to stand back and let the manager take the rap for their shortcomings. Heroic.
This season's team isn't responsible for last year's shambles, but as they haven't done anything worth praising yet, I see no reason why they should get us behind them in advance. If we booed excellence, that would be absurd. But I haven't heard of anything of the kind ever happening. We didn't exactly play well at Wembley, but I didn't hear much booing then.
It would be different if they were on minimum wage, people you could like, who just tried their best. Not people whose wage demands keep them in Easy Street and QPR in Queer Street. Who can blame them for cashing in at QPR's expense, if the mugs who run the Club just hand out money like confetti without making damn sure they get something worth having in return?
Not me. I don't blame them at all for THAT. But I sure as hell don't blame my fellow supporters for letting those who are responsible for the performances know how unsatisfactory they are. If we just swallow it all without demur who WILL stick up for QPR and tell it like it is!
Indeed, isn't it about time the players came out and stuck up for the supporters for a change!
Not with the usual empty platitudes, but demanding to know why they didn't get it right, identifying with the disappointment at all the empty big talk from the boardroom, at the constant coming and going of managers and players, enriching everyone except QPR, asking why the Board make THE CLUB pay for the Board's catastrophic errors, why they dump their losses in the QPR accounts, instead of absorbing them in their own.
Just a different perspective, of course. I can see how better performances from the players, even brilliant performances, could turn things round. Signing better players, come to that. Better managers. Better directors. Better finances. More intelligent decision-making throughout the Club.
But I don't see that endorsing failure over and over again is actually encouraging ANYONE to make things better. Supporters have been backing the Club through dismal seasons for decades and seeing very little respect, let alone quality and commitment from anyone else apart from their fellow supporters.
And isn't the question - an excellent one in itself - about who would come to QPR precisely the RIGHT question to ask? What quality player would come to such an administrative, footballing, managerial and motivational shambles? Surely the flight of anyone with talent from QPR is not that the team were playing brilliantly but the supporters were just nasty, but that no-one with real talent and real prospects would give us a thought.
Making the team play better and getting better results is what is required to make the supporters more positive towards THEM. But that is their fault, not ours. Great results, brilliant performances, and successes get the credit they're due. The negativity is on the pitch. Negative towards the Club in negotiating such expensive and useless contracts. In putting together such useless squads. And giving such ineffectual performances.
This is only one game, and one swallow doesn't make a banquet. But if changing all the negative comments to positive ones will make the slightest difference to performances on the pitch, why do we need all these overpaid underperformers? Why not cut the wage bill, get keen lower league triers, save a fortune, start reducing the debt, and ask the supporters to improve our results and performances by saying more positive things?
The responsibility for delivering is theirs, not ours. When they've done it, certainly, everyone will say thanks. As things stand, it is still 'thanks for nothing'.
If they want praise, let them conduct themselves in a praiseworthy fashion. Only take the pay they earn. Deliver performances that merit praise. |
"Why should anyone get behind these mercenaries after only one performance, and that not a good one, long before they've done enough to show us that they have the Club's best interests at heart?"
This is a massive generalisation. Are Mackie, Hill and Faurlin mercenaries? I suppose you could argue — as you indeed do - that footballers are overpaid and do not get remunerated based on results, but that is a general issue, not just one at QPR. I think it’s very harsh to tar all the squad with the same brush. That said, I, like you, would like to see a bigger emphasis on payment by results. We have to be realistic though; that requires an industry wide revolution and whilst QPR may be able to take some steps in that direction, it’s unlikely we can switch to a 100% results based model without jeopardising our ability to acquire players of the required standard. More's the pity.
I think you’re also generalising about QPR handing out big wages. The wage bill *is* being reduced. The players coming in to replace the likes of Barton and SWP are on nowhere near the money
Also, I thought we had already bought in some “keen lower league triers” in JET, Gladwin and Luongo.
I agree with you that we should not feel the need to applaud poor performances but let’s give the team a chance and cheer them on as they work to gel.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:53 - Aug 11 with 1753 views | LowerloftLad |
5 remained of the squad that one promtion last time around and we got beat 2-0 by the relegation favourites with wolves and cardiff on the way it will be a long season i really think are first win will be rotherham at home.
Saying that surely tonight Sandro or fer will start tonight and we can progress in the cup [Post edited 11 Aug 2015 13:54]
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| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 02:11 - Aug 14 with 1680 views | Ingham |
Yes, they're interesting points you make, R from afar.
Of course I am generalising. I've never come across a detailed official breakdown of what each player earns, so I'm inclined to make the point in general terms on the basis that the Club has been running up enormous losses - and dramatically increasingly losses - for many, many years. On that basis - and the absence of very much evidence that the money has been well spent in terms of improvements in performance, quality of football, significantly better results - it seems reasonable to me to conclude that they're being as massively overpaid as the Club is making massive losses.
If the players were paid less than their outgoings, so despite what they were earning, they were getting deeper and deeper in debt with every passing year, I would expect to hear about it. Loud and long. The players and their representatives - agents and union especially - are the masters. Their representatives really DO represent their interests. I see little evidence that any of QPR's 'representatives' fight for the Club in the same way, exhibit the same relentless determination - and success - to increase the Club's assets, wealth and resources.
I do admire the players a lot. But if Hill, Faurlin and Mackie ARE the exceptions, that is a tiny minority in the flood of scores to hundreds of signings in the past five to ten years or however far we might go back. Which we must do, if, as you say, rightly, I'm sure, it is a problem right across the game. But given that that is the case, it is also a problem which has haunted the Clubs long-term now, and the fact that other Clubs are getting screwed isn't evidence that QPR are not, especially bearing in mind that the players operate collectively - through the Players Union especially - and their approach WORKS. For them.
Again, if the Club only came up with the money as intermittently as they came up with the performances, I would feel more compassion, at least for the Mackies and Hills, but their ability to secure their own interests irrespective of whether that benefits the Club or not indicates - to me - that I should save my concern for QPR, which needs it, rather than the players, who don't.
It is perfectly right that they should look after their own interests. And that those who are personally loyal to them - their families, friends, advisers and so on - should see things from their point of view.
Unfortunately, though, apart from the supporters, who sees things relentlessly from the Club's point of view? The investors are here because they own shares, because they have debts they wish to collect on, and because they have their own projects they wish to promote (property deals concerning the ground, usually).
So I think it is fine to let them defend themselves and their interests. In the only way that will ever convince anyone, and that is through their results and performances. I don't think it is asking too much - from OUR point of view, however it may seem to them - to require them either to be honest about their shortcomings, or to provide proof that they are (a) quality to whatever extent and (b) worth the money.
The supporters are unique and indispensable to the Club. When we ask ourselves what is best for QPR, unlike the players, agents, managers, chairmen and directors, we do not put ourselves forward. They simply can't put QPR first. They have shares to sell, or contracts to negotiate, or their livelihoods to protect, or their deals to promote. We can afford to ignore all that. Unlike the 'owners', we don't treat QPR as if it belongs to us, but on the basis that we belong to it, which is what our kind of a Club is.
It is that very, very unmercenary loyalty which has kept the Club afloat, despite the losses on and off the pitch, and, in former times, the various attempts on the part of QPR's Boards to wipe the Club - and other Clubs - off the face of the earth.
We shouldn't hurry to discard our independence. Let them argue their own corner, while we remain focused on who and what is best FOR QPR. They're getting paid enough to do their job properly. If they don't, why should we just go on and on 'getting behind them'. They seem competitive enough - and cold-blooded enough - when it comes to their money. Why shouldn't we treat them in the same way when it comes to QPR's.
Successful QPR teams, players who perform well for the Club, they never have any problem winning admirers. And, as we know, the honest, hard-working, often underrated players that successful teams depend on alongside their stars, they get their fair share of credit, as we know.
Virtually everyone in and around the game who is in it for the money (or, at any rate, who line their pockets from their involvement with it) - players, managers, investors, commentators, the press, the authorities - have been quick to commodify it, commodify themselves, and commodify the Clubs - when it suits them to do so. Fair enough. If they must treat QPR as a 'business', even if that is only because they do business on their own behalf at the Club's expense - or because it is their only way of making a living - it is reasonable for us to treat them as a commodity too, and the Club's means of making QPR's living.
So I don't apologise for calling them mercenaries. If they don't like it, and prefer the QPR identity, loyalty to QPR, and our admiration, as a priority, then their own priorities will have to change. I don't subscribe to arguments that making QPR our only priority damages morale. What is damaging to morale is long-term failure. And - if it is unreasonable to expect anything other than failure (given our limitations) or, shall we say, just honest endeavour - let them be paid accordingly. And let them say which it is to be. If we are to stick by them, let THEM stick by each other, and by the Club.
But there's the rub. Does anyone want any of them (with rare exceptions) around after a year or two? Even if one or two are okay, the failure of the team affects them too. It is easier, I think, for ordinary players in very good teams to look good, than for decent players in very bad teams to impress. And not just in he eyes of the individuals who feel we're doomed shortly after kick-off in the opening match. NOBODY gets behind our managers, for instance, long term, unless they are successful. It is their own fault. Self-interest prevents them telling us not to expect anything.
That is one of their perennial weaknesses, and it isn't our doing. Chairmen especially seem to think they can tell us - however vaguely - that the Club will do well under them, will even soar into the Champions League (as the Mittal-era people have told us more than once) WITHOUT thereby incurring a price they will have to pay.
Those who think we should give them a chance, those who think they are to be trusted, those who hope for the best, who believe in the Chairman or the signings or the new manager - they aren't just SAYING that. It is, effectively, a contract. Like telling your local top man in organised crime that he can depend on you. One day, he'll come calling, and god help you. It is the same with supporters.
We don't get on their backs only because we don't believe them. The fiercest criticism in the long run, I think so anyway, will come from those who DO believe. Who give them the benefit of the doubt. And are disappointed once too often. Too many blithe assertions, too many assurances.
Our Chairmen are hardly given to indulging the managers, who they sack, any more than our managers are given to indulging the players that they berate, or drop, or transfer, supposedly so we can put together a more competitive team. Why don't we ask them to soft-pedal the improvements? Keep the losing manager. Persist with losing runs way past the usual cut-off point. Hang on to he players who laugh and joke when they've just lost 6-0 and 5-1, and been paid money supporters can only dream of to be as useless as that. Just so we can get behind them?
We can get behind players and managers and chairmen who are worth getting behind. If we just go on humouring them while the money pours into their accounts and the cost of their failures is charged to the Club, is that really benefiting QPR? And getting behind our Club.
With the rapid turnover in squads, in managers, and, fairly frequently, in board members and entire boardrooms, they can create an air of activity and of dealing with problems, of starting again with a clean sheet, and all we get is the same old same old. When it changes, we'll notice, but we're not, I think, obliged to pretend it has happened before we have any evidence that that is so.
This is a good thread, as I say. It is enjoyable to find a variety of opinions put across fairly and with the usual concern for the Club that characterises Rs supporters. | | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 08:52 - Aug 14 with 1643 views | Mvpeter |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:47 - Aug 11 by R_from_afar |
"Why should anyone get behind these mercenaries after only one performance, and that not a good one, long before they've done enough to show us that they have the Club's best interests at heart?"
This is a massive generalisation. Are Mackie, Hill and Faurlin mercenaries? I suppose you could argue — as you indeed do - that footballers are overpaid and do not get remunerated based on results, but that is a general issue, not just one at QPR. I think it’s very harsh to tar all the squad with the same brush. That said, I, like you, would like to see a bigger emphasis on payment by results. We have to be realistic though; that requires an industry wide revolution and whilst QPR may be able to take some steps in that direction, it’s unlikely we can switch to a 100% results based model without jeopardising our ability to acquire players of the required standard. More's the pity.
I think you’re also generalising about QPR handing out big wages. The wage bill *is* being reduced. The players coming in to replace the likes of Barton and SWP are on nowhere near the money
Also, I thought we had already bought in some “keen lower league triers” in JET, Gladwin and Luongo.
I agree with you that we should not feel the need to applaud poor performances but let’s give the team a chance and cheer them on as they work to gel.
RFA |
I'll believe the wage bill is being reduced when I see it's being reduced. People have been saying that for years now and it just gets worse.
It does seem like its getting better. | |
| |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 09:11 - Aug 14 with 1610 views | Blue_Castello |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 08:52 - Aug 14 by Mvpeter |
I'll believe the wage bill is being reduced when I see it's being reduced. People have been saying that for years now and it just gets worse.
It does seem like its getting better. |
Well if that isn't a Qblockpete comment id be really surprised, let' me see the agenda being run the board down as much as possible......  | | | |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 13:58 - Aug 14 with 1577 views | R_from_afar |
| Why would anyone want to play for QPR?! on 02:11 - Aug 14 by Ingham |
Yes, they're interesting points you make, R from afar.
Of course I am generalising. I've never come across a detailed official breakdown of what each player earns, so I'm inclined to make the point in general terms on the basis that the Club has been running up enormous losses - and dramatically increasingly losses - for many, many years. On that basis - and the absence of very much evidence that the money has been well spent in terms of improvements in performance, quality of football, significantly better results - it seems reasonable to me to conclude that they're being as massively overpaid as the Club is making massive losses.
If the players were paid less than their outgoings, so despite what they were earning, they were getting deeper and deeper in debt with every passing year, I would expect to hear about it. Loud and long. The players and their representatives - agents and union especially - are the masters. Their representatives really DO represent their interests. I see little evidence that any of QPR's 'representatives' fight for the Club in the same way, exhibit the same relentless determination - and success - to increase the Club's assets, wealth and resources.
I do admire the players a lot. But if Hill, Faurlin and Mackie ARE the exceptions, that is a tiny minority in the flood of scores to hundreds of signings in the past five to ten years or however far we might go back. Which we must do, if, as you say, rightly, I'm sure, it is a problem right across the game. But given that that is the case, it is also a problem which has haunted the Clubs long-term now, and the fact that other Clubs are getting screwed isn't evidence that QPR are not, especially bearing in mind that the players operate collectively - through the Players Union especially - and their approach WORKS. For them.
Again, if the Club only came up with the money as intermittently as they came up with the performances, I would feel more compassion, at least for the Mackies and Hills, but their ability to secure their own interests irrespective of whether that benefits the Club or not indicates - to me - that I should save my concern for QPR, which needs it, rather than the players, who don't.
It is perfectly right that they should look after their own interests. And that those who are personally loyal to them - their families, friends, advisers and so on - should see things from their point of view.
Unfortunately, though, apart from the supporters, who sees things relentlessly from the Club's point of view? The investors are here because they own shares, because they have debts they wish to collect on, and because they have their own projects they wish to promote (property deals concerning the ground, usually).
So I think it is fine to let them defend themselves and their interests. In the only way that will ever convince anyone, and that is through their results and performances. I don't think it is asking too much - from OUR point of view, however it may seem to them - to require them either to be honest about their shortcomings, or to provide proof that they are (a) quality to whatever extent and (b) worth the money.
The supporters are unique and indispensable to the Club. When we ask ourselves what is best for QPR, unlike the players, agents, managers, chairmen and directors, we do not put ourselves forward. They simply can't put QPR first. They have shares to sell, or contracts to negotiate, or their livelihoods to protect, or their deals to promote. We can afford to ignore all that. Unlike the 'owners', we don't treat QPR as if it belongs to us, but on the basis that we belong to it, which is what our kind of a Club is.
It is that very, very unmercenary loyalty which has kept the Club afloat, despite the losses on and off the pitch, and, in former times, the various attempts on the part of QPR's Boards to wipe the Club - and other Clubs - off the face of the earth.
We shouldn't hurry to discard our independence. Let them argue their own corner, while we remain focused on who and what is best FOR QPR. They're getting paid enough to do their job properly. If they don't, why should we just go on and on 'getting behind them'. They seem competitive enough - and cold-blooded enough - when it comes to their money. Why shouldn't we treat them in the same way when it comes to QPR's.
Successful QPR teams, players who perform well for the Club, they never have any problem winning admirers. And, as we know, the honest, hard-working, often underrated players that successful teams depend on alongside their stars, they get their fair share of credit, as we know.
Virtually everyone in and around the game who is in it for the money (or, at any rate, who line their pockets from their involvement with it) - players, managers, investors, commentators, the press, the authorities - have been quick to commodify it, commodify themselves, and commodify the Clubs - when it suits them to do so. Fair enough. If they must treat QPR as a 'business', even if that is only because they do business on their own behalf at the Club's expense - or because it is their only way of making a living - it is reasonable for us to treat them as a commodity too, and the Club's means of making QPR's living.
So I don't apologise for calling them mercenaries. If they don't like it, and prefer the QPR identity, loyalty to QPR, and our admiration, as a priority, then their own priorities will have to change. I don't subscribe to arguments that making QPR our only priority damages morale. What is damaging to morale is long-term failure. And - if it is unreasonable to expect anything other than failure (given our limitations) or, shall we say, just honest endeavour - let them be paid accordingly. And let them say which it is to be. If we are to stick by them, let THEM stick by each other, and by the Club.
But there's the rub. Does anyone want any of them (with rare exceptions) around after a year or two? Even if one or two are okay, the failure of the team affects them too. It is easier, I think, for ordinary players in very good teams to look good, than for decent players in very bad teams to impress. And not just in he eyes of the individuals who feel we're doomed shortly after kick-off in the opening match. NOBODY gets behind our managers, for instance, long term, unless they are successful. It is their own fault. Self-interest prevents them telling us not to expect anything.
That is one of their perennial weaknesses, and it isn't our doing. Chairmen especially seem to think they can tell us - however vaguely - that the Club will do well under them, will even soar into the Champions League (as the Mittal-era people have told us more than once) WITHOUT thereby incurring a price they will have to pay.
Those who think we should give them a chance, those who think they are to be trusted, those who hope for the best, who believe in the Chairman or the signings or the new manager - they aren't just SAYING that. It is, effectively, a contract. Like telling your local top man in organised crime that he can depend on you. One day, he'll come calling, and god help you. It is the same with supporters.
We don't get on their backs only because we don't believe them. The fiercest criticism in the long run, I think so anyway, will come from those who DO believe. Who give them the benefit of the doubt. And are disappointed once too often. Too many blithe assertions, too many assurances.
Our Chairmen are hardly given to indulging the managers, who they sack, any more than our managers are given to indulging the players that they berate, or drop, or transfer, supposedly so we can put together a more competitive team. Why don't we ask them to soft-pedal the improvements? Keep the losing manager. Persist with losing runs way past the usual cut-off point. Hang on to he players who laugh and joke when they've just lost 6-0 and 5-1, and been paid money supporters can only dream of to be as useless as that. Just so we can get behind them?
We can get behind players and managers and chairmen who are worth getting behind. If we just go on humouring them while the money pours into their accounts and the cost of their failures is charged to the Club, is that really benefiting QPR? And getting behind our Club.
With the rapid turnover in squads, in managers, and, fairly frequently, in board members and entire boardrooms, they can create an air of activity and of dealing with problems, of starting again with a clean sheet, and all we get is the same old same old. When it changes, we'll notice, but we're not, I think, obliged to pretend it has happened before we have any evidence that that is so.
This is a good thread, as I say. It is enjoyable to find a variety of opinions put across fairly and with the usual concern for the Club that characterises Rs supporters. |
Thanks for replying. Yes, we should save our concern for QPR. The system is, as you say, most definitely biased towards the players but I do feel that Rangers are now moving in the right direction; the main focus of our recruitment does seem to be younger, hungrier, cheaper players now.
You are spot on when you say we, the fans, are the constant. Our owners, whoever they may be, are invariably just passing through.
When it comes to cheering, or jeering, the players, I do feel that we need to give the new players/new squad a bit of a chance. I certainly don't advocate cheering on players who aren't trying or who are misbehaving or clearly letting us down, but imagine if you started a job at a new company and you received no support from your new employers and manager until you had made a positive contribution. It would be hugely unsettling. It's rare that anyone delivers instantly. Let's have a bit of patience.
The changes you want in terms of players' wages do need to be made by all clubs eventually or the game will eat itself. The need to change is more pressing for clubs with lower revenues, e.g. QPR, but I just think we need to be realistic about how fast we can change. We do need to change but I think we are changing...
I'm not totally comfortable with TF and his merry men and I do wonder if, longer term, we fans need to take a stake in the club so we can get some degree of real control. I would be willing to invest as part of that sort of fan based ownership scheme. In the interim, however, we need to accept that running a league football club is an expensive business, so we do need people with a lot of cash who are willing to invest in our club. No club has a divine right to attract investors with the sort of money needed to keep it going and I think this is especially true of relatively small, relatively unsuccessful clubs like ours. I think we forget that we genuinely are fortunate that people with no real connection to QPR are willing to invest to keep the ship afloat; OK, these non-fans are rarely in it just for the love of it and ultimately want to make money from QPR but all the time they are onboard, they are at least providing the cash we need to find from somewhere if we wish to continue to survive at a high level within the league pyramid. We should not forget this.
RFA | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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