Russell Martin rung the changes, but of course there was one he didn't make and that ultimately cost us dearly, as a team that started brightly, faded badly without leadership or organisation.

Saints started brightly and for 30 minutes looked the better side, but then came the turning point of the match, Tyler Dibling who was playing without fear on his full Premier League debut, took on his man and was brought down for a penalty.

But who would take it ? no one in the crowd knew and it looked like the players didn't either, with usual penalty take Adam Armstrong on the bench, there wasn't one obvious candidate that anyone had seen take a penalty before.

Initially in looked like Ben Brereton Dias would step up to the plate, in the aftermath it looks like he should have been the man, apparently he has taken 7 penalties before and scored all of them.

But he seemed to be talked out of it by Cameron Archer, who it turned out had never taken one in his previous 126 game career before this moment.

He took an age to actually take it and when he did, it was a tame shot that was too close to the keeper and it was easily saved, the ball came back to him but his header was tame and straight into the keepers arms.

This was the turning point of the afternoon, you could feel the confidence drain out of the players and the fans in the stadium.

At this point we needed leadership, we needed a Captain who rallied his troops and organised them as United suddenly found their confidence soaring.

But we didn't get that, within 5 minutes United had taken the lead and it was yet another disastrous moment for our defence, no one can deny that it wasn't a great ball into the box, but our defence had moved up and it should have gone out for a goal kick.

But one man hadn't followed his team mates, Jack Stephens was caught day dreaming and two yards behind the rest of the team, it meant that it played on a United player who headed it across the goal and into the far corner.

It was soft, Jack Stephens is meant to be the Captain and playing as a central defender in place of the axed Taylor Harwood-Bellis he should have been holding the line, yet he was completely detached from his team mates, it was unclear just who should have been calling the line.

Now United were full of running and confidence, again it needed leadership for the remaining 10 minutes of the first half, but we were all at sea, in the 41st minute we cleared a corner, but we were far too deep and Markus Rashford had too much time and space to curl a shot into the far corner.

You felt that the game was now gone.

The second half saw Saints under pressure and it needed a few smart saves from Aaron Ramsdale to keep the deficit at only two goals and with a slight chance of a comeback.

Just after the hour mark we made 4 changes in 2 minutes and it smacked of desperation, when you have to make 4 changes at once, it shows you are getting things badly wrong.

The withdrawal of Tyler Dibling drew boos from the crowd, but in truth he was understandably starting to tire, it almost seemed that Russell Martin had accepted that the game was over when one of the changes was Ross Stewart, a man who has barely played in 20 months, not Adam Armstrong whose hard work would have been welcome, this was now a training game, the manager had accepted that it was lost.

With 10 minutes to go came the sending off of Jack Stephens, TV replays showed it was totally justified, it was a studs up challenge and it was rash, but the real question is why Stephens was making the tackle in the position that he was on touchline way inside the United half.

Taylor Harwood-Bellis came on to shore up the defence and we almost got away with it, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids with 20 year old Garnacho sweeping home an unstoppable shot from a pull back.

So it was in the end a rout, but where we surprised ? The issue has to be squarely down to the manager, who has stubbornly followed a tactic that only he can see value in, In truth it came down to what I banged on about last season, a lack of leadership, the Captain has to be one of your best players, not just in terms of his performances, but in the fact that he is nailed on regular in the starting line up in his position and he is steady and a leader of men.

Our Captain on Saturday is none of those things and that resulted in the chaos that ensued, a leader of men would have sorted out who was taking the penalty, he would have held the back line as a unit, staying back or pushing forward together in unison.

Russell Martin is in many ways a lucky manager, last season the change in how we played was forced on him due to Alex McCarthy being unable to play with his feet when he came in after Gavin Bazunu's injury.

Now Martin has another change forced on him with the one man whom he always picks being suspended for three games, the big question is will Martin still be at St Mary's when Captain Jack returns after suspension.

I will stick up for Jack though, he is in a position he should not be in, he is a good squad player, he has never been a leader and for that matter a regular starter in that many seasons, he is now getting the stick, he is not showing a lack of effort in his game, he should not have this pressure put on him.

But there were some plus points, Tyler Dibling was exceptional in the first half hour and should be one of the first names on the team sheet. Aaron Ramsdale made save after save and without him it could have been a lot more.

Aside from that it is hard to think of anyone who had a decent game, but after conceding those two goals we did show some team spirit to not completely collapse and that hs to be good news.

However it was just pure graft from certain players amidst chaos going on around them, there was absolutely no leadership from the bench or on the pitch.

The next game is now crucial and should we lose to Ipswich it is hard to see how Russell Martin will stay in the job.

Photo: Action Images

davidargyll added 09:30 - Sep 16 There are two common-heard expressions in the media which I loathe: The first, is after some poor individual has got stuffed in his or her particular sport, is virtually in tears and a moronic reporter immediately shoves a mike in their face and asks “How do you feel?”!!! And the other is after your team has got well beaten, everybody is really down, and the manager waxes lyrical about being able to take “loads of positives from the game”. Aside from the fact that you will never hear a winning manager say “ Well, we will be able to take loads of negatives from our performance”, this is always a pathetic attempt at arse-covering. Because, a defeat is a defeat, no matter how much you try to tart it up, and, Russell Martin, nil-three at home is not far short of a thrashing. And for you to think otherwise just shows how deluded you are. My read on Saturday’s successful plucking of defeat from the jaws of victory: 1. The reason we lost pure and simple was RM’s idiotic decision to get Cameron Archer to take the penalty, when Diaz, who has scored seven out of seven, clearly was the better choice. That one decision deflated the team and the crowd and it was all over. 2. It is small decisions (like that one) that win or lose you games, not whether for example you play three, four or five at the back. And that decision alone shows that RM just hasn’t got the X factor. 3. RM now seems to have got into the appalling habit of apologising, as if that will make it any better! And what does this tell us? That HE IS LACKING IN THAT INNER CONFIDENCE THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE A PREMIER LEAGUE MANAGER. And If you doubt this, when did you last hear Pep or Jurgen or even the likes of Nuno or Ten Hag or Dyche apologising. They don’t, because they have 100% self-belief coupled with PL experience. 4. And if you want further proof, a really good manager would have been able to lift the players’ heads up at half time, said that Man U are quite beatable, and got them to play the second half with spirit and pride. Instead our drab H2 performance speaks volumes about RM’s non-Churchillian half-time talk. 5. JS’s thoroughly deserved red card spoke volumes about the frustration which RM’s style has created in the team. 6. Finally he says “The lads are trying so hard, they are giving everything they’ve got”. But isn’t that the point? It’s under him they are doing the best they can, ie he has reached the end of his limited footballing knowledge and if that wasn’t proof positive that he has to go, I don’t know what is. I’ve said it time and time again, top managers make average players into A1 teams; can anyone honestly put their hand on their heart and say with confidence that RM can do this? We need at least nine wins to stay up; right now I struggle to see where we are going to get our first point from, let alone our first win under him. I believe he must be shown the door and PDQ. He has taken us as far as he can, he’s not going to get any better, and anybody who seriously thinks we should give him more time is as deluded as he is, because the longer we keep him the more he will squander the talents of this half decent team.

3

JoeEgg added 09:56 - Sep 16 Dont have time right now to add a long comment - maybe later - except to say that I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say above Nick! We had a good line up to face Man Utd - bar the choice of Martin's favourite Stephens - still no effective centre forward - and as you say no Captain on the pitch. It cant be all Martin's fault - much of the blame lies at-the feet of Sports republic - but the manager badly needs a result against Ipswich or his days here are surely numbered.

3

Jesus_02 added 10:09 - Sep 16 Outrageous sack the board! I totally expected us to beat Man U convincingly like we haven't in the last 20 years. Seriously, the only thing I will continue to criticise Martin for is playing Stephens. I totally get that he is trying to build a team and loyalty is part of that, Bella Kotchap doesn't play , because even though he is a better player he hasn't should the requisite commitment , I understand that and even agree with it . I thought signing THB for 20m was great business, is anyone coming in for Jack Stephens? For any price? No one wants him, he is our CAPTAIN. We have conceded 8 goals and if you look he is involved in most of them. He looks good at times but makes a couple of serious mistakes a game. I keep watching the second goal, while other players are rushing out or other players, he is on his heals and calmly watching the shot go past. He leads the team with a stunned passive response. I don't see him talking to players, organising anything , I see him wandering around like he is trying to remember if he left the gas on at home. Positives, because there are some and we didn't really expect to win .. did we?: 1: Dibbling (obviously) 2: Midfield looked so much better without Stephens in it. Fernandez in particular looks like he will be quality. We actually turned with the ball and no one passed it back to defenders under pressure from 2 opposition players. I thought we tried more even if it didn't come off we continued to try. 3: Ramsdale continues to make great saves and his distribution is pretty decent too 4: RM at least noticed the tactical changes that Ten Hag made with changing the press . He made significant changes and gave the players he brought on time to make a difference. Just a Shame we went down to 10 shortly after. 5: RM wont need to decide if he is loyal to his Captain for 3 matches.

7

IanRC added 10:23 - Sep 16 Best thing about the game apart from Tyler is that Martin will be forced to drop Stephens for the next three games. We can only hope that he learns his lesson and appoints a new captain for the remainder of the season. I think you're a bit harsh on some of the other players particularly sigawara who for the big first 30 minutes or so we're excellent other than that I agree entirely Nick. By the way type Sports Republic get your act together and sign up Tyler Dibling for the longest period possible.

9

saintmark1976 added 10:24 - Sep 16 Oddly enough given that I don’t like his style of tippy tappy football I have considerable sympathy for Russell Martin. Put simply, he’s currently taking stick for the ongoing failures of our Owners and Player Recruitment Team. After spending a net £70 million since the close season what have they given him to work with in The Premiership ? Two quality players In Ramsdale and K W P together with a hotch potch of young inexperienced players and interchangeable older experienced underachievers. Frankly, even the fella that manages Man City wouldn’t be able to get a Premiership tune out of our current squad so I can see little point in sacking Russell Martin. We may as well stick with him and use this season to prepare the squad for next season in The Championship, minus Ramsdale and K W P of course.

0

mgprobert added 10:26 - Sep 16 Agree with a lot of those comments - the Stephens red card could just be the lucky break the team needed COYS
6

UgandaSaint added 10:56 - Sep 16 You are all being too soft on Stephens. The tackle was typical of a Sunday Pub League, studs to knee, no where near the ball, so late the ball was over a metre away when contact was made. Martin had a clear view, only a few meters away from him, but gets himself booked protesting about a red card that was as clear as any you will ever see. Stephens must be stripped of the captaincy, sent to train with the under 18's, and only reinstated if we lose 9-0. The team at Everton should be an opportunity to see what ABK can do, and please don't risk our best players in a meaningless cup game.

6

SanMarco added 11:30 - Sep 16 I agree with saintmark's first sentence. I feel a wee bit sorry for RM. He did virtually all we were demanding of him but his addiction to Jack is doing for him and for us. If we lose the next two he will be sacked and the question as to whether this is a good thing is not as clear cut as it might seem. I get davidargyll's point that he needs to go but would just make two points: 1. History - our last two relegations from this league were in seasons involving an early manager change, and indeed two happened in both. Alright Poch worked okay but there is a strong case to say Adkins would have kept us up anyway. 2. The replacement. Sports Republic don't have a great record here. It would need to be someone who could be up and running on day one. Is Potter still available? Nathan Jones mark two would have us all nostalgic for RM very quickly. Personally I would give him until the end of October and say we MUST have at least 4 points by then. If we beat Ipswich and Leicester then all bets are back on. Big 'IF' I know but I am not going to give up yet. As for the game - the penalty taker decision was mad and Jack was Jack. Dibling looked good and Ramsdale a long overdue signing. Several other players looked decent but where are the goals coming from??

8

DellBoyWally added 11:37 - Sep 16 So RM's only disappointment was the ref and 4th official looked at each other before sending Stephen's off? My disappointment was that, after the fluffed penalty, we didn't have another attempt on goal! We were brilliant for 30 minutes, had a few good chances then the penalty debacle. Apparently it was RM's decision on the taker. Score that and who knows? The team, apart from Stephens obviously, was my what I posted before the game. As far as I know we still have Tall Paul. Against Everton on Tuesday I'd get him in with Stewart alongside and 2 true wingers and 2 DMs and play ABK and TBH at the back with Lumley in goal. Play as a fluid 442/424 with FBs adding extra wide attackers when going forward. Next Saturday revert back to Saturday's team but with Tall Pall or Stewart as striker and 2 out of JB/THB/ABK at the back

5

StRipper added 12:36 - Sep 16 In addition to what has already been said, the one thing that was noticeable to me was the way we seem to have lost our ability to press as a team. This used to be one of our great strengths. And I appreciate that the team is still forming. However, we were totally unable to pressure Man Utd when they were on the ball. One of our players might have moved to challenge the player on the ball but this was never coordinated with other players in the area and it was easy for United to pass it around and work our way up field. Generally, it felt like our team was in two minds once we lost the ball - some opting to peg it back to our own half and others looking to take it to the opposition and try to quickly win it back. Unless we quickly get ourselves organised in winning the ball back and how we do that, we are going to be dependent on opposition errors and struggle to control games, whatever the scoreline

6

WestSussexSaint added 12:42 - Sep 16 I’m not going to defend Stephens as he was at fault for the first goal and the sending off was reckless. However as it wasn’t mentioned in the article it should be noted that THB did exactly the same as Jack for the third goal and was playing the wide player onside when the rest of the defence had stepped up. I mention this for completeness of reporting the details of the match and to show that it’s not just Stephens that is making mistakes. On the whole I was encouraged by the first 30 mins. We just need to make that good play count.

8

wibbersda added 13:06 - Sep 16 I suspect having young and inexperienced players at this level, they could handled their emotions and went in to Downer mode. Better wise up quick, as you should be able to muster a come back. I have not seen any.teams so far that are weaker than us. 30 minutes a game is not going to cut it. Here comes the down arrows, I think Martin deserves a full season and can't believe people's lake of support...other than Stephens!

3

SaintPaulVW added 13:06 - Sep 16 I expected this season to be tough and am prepared for the team to be learning on the job in the early season. The initial team set up was exactly what we had all been requesting, barring Stephens getting an automatic pick, however in Martin's defence on this THB has been off form and ABK looked rusty against Cardiff. We played really well first 30 mins in particular Midfield had the right balance between defence and attack, we were stopping Utd and turning them round. Then came the penalty and again Stephens is missing, he should be organising and even as other captains do, disrupting the delay so that the pressure is eased for the penalty taker. Go and push Onana back FFS! But Jack is nowhere. As you say the game deflated rapidly after that. Good to see Stewart getting a run out. If Archer can't take his chance, then Stewart needs to start ASAP. Next game I hope we stick with current formation, just THB or ABK replacing Stephens. In the first 30 minutes, there was real improvement over the performances in the first 3 PL games. I'm not getting too despondent as we knew we had to step up a level and, as they say, progress is not a straight line. COYR

5

AmericanSaint added 13:10 - Sep 16 Many valid points here. When I learned that CA never took a penalty, if I was Brenton, I would have told him to "STFU, I am taking it!". RM saying that CA was practicing for 2 weeks during the break for a PK, it ridiculous. If that was the best CA can do after 2 weeks of practice, he needs to never take one again. Next - I do not understand why RM is playing B-D out on the wing when he is not a winger. This makes no sense as he is never near the box when any ball is played in because half the time he is the one playing it in. I think if we dont get a win at Ips or Bourn, then RM will be sacked. As previously stated, he may have taken us as far as his managerial skills can. The real issue is that SR do not have an idea of who to bring in. SP is mesmerized by the "statistics game/angle" versus getting a proven Prem Manager. Obviously only time will tell, but I fear we will be relegated again and will lose all the good young talent we have accumulated. We have not done a good job in bringing in experience to help the youth. Hope I am wrong.

2

stmichael added 13:13 - Sep 16 Jack Stephen’s played because THB has been the poorest of our three centre backs this season without question. Changing to a 4 one had to miss out and Jack has been better than THB. Personally I’d have dropped them both and played Bella Kotchap but that’s another argument.. In his short time on the pitch THB was responsible for the 3rd goal playing UTD onside. Given that you have written a whole article on how Stephen’s did the same for the 1st goal I’m surprised you didn’t mention it ? Maybe it’s becUse you are not balanced and have an agenda against the team captain?

-2

Colburn added 13:14 - Sep 16 WestSussexSaint finally brings some balance to the usual biased reporting. THB did the same as Stephens for the 3rd goal and Bednarek had a shocker at Brentford but they both escape any form of criticism.. As soon as captain Jack is culpable, the knives are out. This article has just proved personal issues and the attempt to ‘defend’ Stephens is a farcical insult to the intelligence of the reader, which in some cases is fair, judging by some comments. At least you can be happy that he’s out for 3 games but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, you reap what you sow and the constant negativity toward our captain has an effect, just a shame you’re too stupid to understand how these things manifest. You finally got what you wanted through your negativity.

-4

ItchenNorth added 13:42 - Sep 16 This one was on the players. Credit Martin, we'd all been asking for a different formation (many asking for 443) and we got it. He was ruthless and dropped many of the player most wanted out (Aribo, Smallbone etc). He started Dibling, Fernandes and we played with a number 9! Lesley was a surprise but looked very capable at this level. With THB out of form, Stephens was always going to start. He picked the right players and the tempo was far quicker. We hardly (if at all) played around at the back and Ramsdale went long numerious times, something everyone has been calling for. In the 1st 30mins we were very good but you have to take chances. The missed penalty changed the game, no question. Utd were there for the taking. However there was no energy once we go in 0-2 by half time and that's a mindset thing. I thought the substitutions were all correct as it was only 0-2, with Dibling clearly tiring, Archer and Dias out of the game, the subs were one last throw of the dice to get some energy in our attack. I saw a team in the first 30, with the right players and passages of play and options from the bench later on. We just needed a goal or now to get the first goal next week and I think we'll see the difference

5

Bowlercow added 13:50 - Sep 16 Stephens out for 3 matches THB not playing well Alternatives are ABK and the seemingly forgotten Charley Taylor who has played CB and LB I do wonder about KWP at LB but if he returns to RB Sugawara dips out That would be unfair The m/f looks pretty good with Tyler Ugchuckwu Fernandez and Downes We need a front line that includes an out and out number 9 Armstrong,Diaz,Archer, Tall Paul and Ross Stewart are all candidates As for RM I firmly believe that what he achieved last season entitles him to have this season to try and prove he is a PL coach

3

saintmark1976 added 13:57 - Sep 16 Don’t worry about down arrows wibbersda, I’ve got five already and it’s only lunch time ! Sometimes you need broad shoulders to post an alternative view and in the main responses are good natured which is to the credit of those who make Nick’s site so interesting. Having said that Colburn appears to be getting excited about Nick’s views of Stephens. If I’ve read it correctly he appears to have called him stupid. A bit strong, but then again watching Saints play always has tested one’s patience.

3

Farlow added 14:05 - Sep 16 Whilst i agree we had a good 30 minutes we were a bit lightweight in midfield too often pushed off the ball,i felt we missed Jo who gives us balance.We must use ABK as he,s the better tham Bednarek or THB,hopefully Edwards or Wood will step up on Tuesday. I totally agree we need a centre forward with a bit of muscle and bustle.The best Saints sides have always had a proper No9.

0

StAnt added 14:29 - Sep 16 RM needs to set the side up with a double pivot like the majority of top sides do. Play 4-2-3-1 and we will be more solid at the back and more flexible going forward. His version of 4-3-3 leaves us predictable and wide open at the back.
0

highfield49 added 17:51 - Sep 16 Late in the day to add very much to the previous posts but in the absence of clear candidate for the captaincy amongst the out field players I'd hand the armband to Ramsdale. Not only is he a respected, senior professional but he is also capable of organising the defence, something that Stephens is unable to do every single game.
1

allsaint54 added 18:33 - Sep 16 Whilst I agree with all the comments above, the key questions are: 1. How many goals are we going to concede, on current form it's going to be about 80. Let's face it we conceded over 60 in the Championship. 2. With 80 goals conceded we need to score a helluva lot of goals. But I can only see 25-30 at best. By signing Sheff. Utd strikers who managed just 8 goals, AA will get 2-3 as per previous years in PL. Wingers will chip in with 4-5. Our midfield are not goalscorers - admit Fernandez is unknown in that respect. Defenders will get 5-6. So by playing the same way we'll be relegated by Xmas if not before, so make the change now & replace RM with someone who understands the PL & allows the players to play to their strengths.

1

bryanK added 20:17 - Sep 16 Results matter and we cannot allow any sentiment in the decision making process if after the Arsenal game we are winless. I totally agree with most of the comments made. Would Russell Martin chance playing are best defender(if fit) ABK and taking a chance on tall Paul? I really worried about the standard of some of the squad. JB & JS are at best average and would not be starting for any other Premier side.Stewart may come good but why did we pay 15m for a lightweight like CA is worrying. Even bottom of the Championship Cardiff with one goal to their credit in the league in 5 games put 3 past us! Ipswich and the Bournemouth game will indicate what this season brings under RM and it will be interesting how Sports Republic react if results remain negative.

1

Blogs 31 bloggers

Norwich City Polls