| Genuine concerns! 08:07 - Feb 1 with 5157 views | NathanNI |
Seems a few here are a bit miffed we didn't spend more. It's obvious we are gambling massively to stay in this league this season but if we don't, are you not concerned of the future of the club?
Is it a case of heads in sand (I'm half like this myself)?
Samba is a great signing but 12.5m! For us it's a huge amount. What happens if we go down, do these players leave? Relegation clauses?
I'm not saying we shouldn't be looking to strengthen and I do think its the case that we would have went down without investment but if this gamble doesn't work out I think our previous experiences with hard times might seem a walk in the park.
Any thoughts? Can anyone convince me we'll be fine.
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| Genuine concerns! on 08:13 - Feb 1 with 5114 views | Gloucs_R |
I think we have bought wisely. If we do go down Remy and Samba can be sold and we will get roughly what we paid.
No major risk with either signing. When you think Hooper was up for sale at £10m, Crouch between £7m - £10m, I think we got a good deal.
If Samba is a success and we stay up, great. If we go down someone like Arsenal will come in for him IMO.
Glad we havent spent £4m on a load of 30+ year old players like we did last year or in the summer. |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 08:25 - Feb 1 with 5085 views | Vish |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:13 - Feb 1 by Gloucs_R |
I think we have bought wisely. If we do go down Remy and Samba can be sold and we will get roughly what we paid.
No major risk with either signing. When you think Hooper was up for sale at £10m, Crouch between £7m - £10m, I think we got a good deal.
If Samba is a success and we stay up, great. If we go down someone like Arsenal will come in for him IMO.
Glad we havent spent £4m on a load of 30+ year old players like we did last year or in the summer. |
I think its a big risk to be honest. If we go down I can't see us being able to get back what we paid for Samba and Remy. Especially if we're off the chasing pack by say December, players will get tapped up no doubt and our hand will be forced to let them move on.
Clearly if we stay up, it all changes. However, imo we are still going down. |  | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:32 - Feb 1 with 5064 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:25 - Feb 1 by Vish |
I think its a big risk to be honest. If we go down I can't see us being able to get back what we paid for Samba and Remy. Especially if we're off the chasing pack by say December, players will get tapped up no doubt and our hand will be forced to let them move on.
Clearly if we stay up, it all changes. However, imo we are still going down. |
The gap is closing and we now have the momentum. We're not conceding goals, but clearly we need to start scoring. For that reason alone, I'm just a bit disappointed that we couldn't get another striker in, rather than more midfielders.
So, I think we'll stay up and be alright. If Harry can get a settled squad then the big spending will slow up. IF we go down, then we do have some assets to sell. My biggest concern is the amount of players out on loan / injured who could all be sat on the payroll in May.
In Tony (and Harry) we have to trust! |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 08:35 - Feb 1 with 5050 views | Gloucs_R |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:25 - Feb 1 by Vish |
I think its a big risk to be honest. If we go down I can't see us being able to get back what we paid for Samba and Remy. Especially if we're off the chasing pack by say December, players will get tapped up no doubt and our hand will be forced to let them move on.
Clearly if we stay up, it all changes. However, imo we are still going down. |
Then they stay for a year and we come back up.
We'd get the money back for Remy if he scores a few.
Samba is here to stay unless a big money offer comes in.
Both will have release fees in their contracts | |
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| Genuine concerns! on 08:37 - Feb 1 with 5037 views | PhilmyRs |
I'm concerned. I felt signing someone like Samba showed the board were going to any lengths to stay in the league. However I don't think they followed it through. Had they got the French centre mid and Crouch or the West Brom guy it would have been a bigger outlay financially but I think it would have kept us in this league. Now I think we've spent ridiculous amounts on players but potentially not big enough to keep us up. In short it wasn't all or nothing. Depending on injuries I think we just have enough to stay up. Let's all pray we do | | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:54 - Feb 1 with 4975 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:46 - Feb 1 by 18StoneOfHoop |
Read the Financial Irregularities thread from yesterday,Nathan.A lot of informed well-argued posts by people who know a lot more about matters financial than me.It did a lot to put my anxious worrying head at rest.
http://www.fansnetwork.co.uk/football/queensparkrangers/fb_mb.php?m=v&t=73985#63
David Conn,the top Guardian investigative footie journo - as admired by Clive - makes some reasonable,temperate comments about our enforced all-on-red shit or bust short-term strategy as opposed to most other Prem teams who are beginning to act more long term and prudently.[More by necessity than design is this policy methinks.. they bloody well have to don't they?..none of them have got the world's 7th richest man on their board,have they?]
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/jan/31/qpr-panic-spree-transfer-dea
It's the comments after the article that are worth having a butcher's at ; basically a free-for-all anti QPR put the boot in feeding frenzy with a lot of 'punters' - (where's Gazza1? ) - assuming that if we go down that's us fooked royally Pompey style in financial armageddon meltdown but the comments in the LFW Financial Irregularities (Collymore spit stir) thread make me think that ain't necessarily so. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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One thing I find strange is that all of these pundits can't seem to grasp the notion that we can make a loss and still survive in the long term. Chelsea and Man City have notched up huge losses over the years and they have owners with deep pockets. Sure, I doubt that TF wants to see us racking up massive debts in the Championship (and of course there will be a fire sale), but he is entitled to plough the money in and make a loss if he, and the board, so wish.
Pompey went bust because their owners wandered off, and Leeds gambled on Champions League football and didn't have the money when that went wrong - each club has a different situation, and every owner has their own motivations. | |
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| Genuine concerns! on 09:05 - Feb 1 with 4942 views | MedwayR |
Remy, Samba & Townsend are all good signings while Jenas & Ben-Haim are ok, the Korean lad is an unknown quantity. The fees we've paid for Samba & Remy are substantial but necessary in order to sign what we need, the fees don't look so bad when compared to Southampton paying £12m for Ramirez & £7m for Rodriguez in the summer. It's the first time we've paid substantial transfer fees. The trouble we've got is our ridiculous wage bill which will remain a problem whether we stay up or go down. Paying £80k a week to Remy & Samba is not such a problem, but c£60k to SWP, Barton, Bosingwa etc is shocking and a problem that we need to seek to rectify.
Big if, but if we can move out SWP, Barton, Bosingwa & Cisse we'd save over £200k a week (£10.4m pa) on wages with minimal impact on the quality of the squad. |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 09:09 - Feb 1 with 4928 views | ozexile |
| Genuine concerns! on 08:54 - Feb 1 by Mytch_QPR |
One thing I find strange is that all of these pundits can't seem to grasp the notion that we can make a loss and still survive in the long term. Chelsea and Man City have notched up huge losses over the years and they have owners with deep pockets. Sure, I doubt that TF wants to see us racking up massive debts in the Championship (and of course there will be a fire sale), but he is entitled to plough the money in and make a loss if he, and the board, so wish.
Pompey went bust because their owners wandered off, and Leeds gambled on Champions League football and didn't have the money when that went wrong - each club has a different situation, and every owner has their own motivations. |
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I would have liked 12.5 million to be sent on our youth set up. I want us to bring through players who understand our club. I'm of the opinion that going down wouldn't be the end of the world like some people make out. We get parachute payments and can start again with commited players. | | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:14 - Feb 1 with 4905 views | A40Bosh |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:09 - Feb 1 by ozexile |
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I would have liked 12.5 million to be sent on our youth set up. I want us to bring through players who understand our club. I'm of the opinion that going down wouldn't be the end of the world like some people make out. We get parachute payments and can start again with commited players. |
I on the other hand believe that the share holders think it is the end of the world despite them trying to be pragmatic about it in public.
If you believe the figures then we have shelled out MASSIVE amounts this transfer window in actual fees even though the press might be overlooking how many we cleared out on loan or off the books to counter balance the high wages of Chris Samba and Loic Remy.
If being relegated was not the end of the world then I dont think the money would have been spent on Samba especially.
We HAVE to stay up this year because the finances that would be forthcoming from the League next year will be astronomical apparently. If we go down, watch the slow down in the development timelines for Warren Farm completion and all talk of a new stadium disappear! |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 09:14 - Feb 1 with 4903 views | NathanNI |
Cheers for the replies. I'll check out that thread (missed it ornI'd have jumped in there).
People mention Southampton a lot as a bench mark for us in terms of spending. But look at the money they've brought in over the last few years with Bale, Walcott, Chamberlain etc. we've sold Sterling for a pittance. Can't think of any decent fee we've received so I don't think we can be compared to hem realistically.
I guess it's down to the staying power of the board long term. | | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:18 - Feb 1 with 4883 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:09 - Feb 1 by ozexile |
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I would have liked 12.5 million to be sent on our youth set up. I want us to bring through players who understand our club. I'm of the opinion that going down wouldn't be the end of the world like some people make out. We get parachute payments and can start again with commited players. |
I'm with you on that - and the club are pressing ahead with the new training ground / academy. However, it takes a long time for this to bear fruit.
The thinking behind the current spending is clearly that we want to be in for the increased funds the PL will bring, we all know how long it took to finally get promoted - if we go down there is no guarantee of an instant return.
Call me old fashioned (or an idealist) but I'd just love to see some players who really care about the club like McDonald, Gallen, Francis etc (I except some current players like Derry, Hill, Mackie from this). | |
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| Genuine concerns! on 09:20 - Feb 1 with 4873 views | jonno |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:09 - Feb 1 by ozexile |
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I would have liked 12.5 million to be sent on our youth set up. I want us to bring through players who understand our club. I'm of the opinion that going down wouldn't be the end of the world like some people make out. We get parachute payments and can start again with commited players. |
Yes, we spend that money on the youth set up then watch as Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool etc. steal any decent youngsters we develop. |  | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:25 - Feb 1 with 4843 views | Vish |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:20 - Feb 1 by jonno |
Yes, we spend that money on the youth set up then watch as Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool etc. steal any decent youngsters we develop. |
Nothing wrong with that for a club of our size. For anyone to move on to the Top 5/6 means they have the quality to press on, play in Europe and maybe even represent their country. I'd be over the moon if we could produce players like that, even if they got sold on for millions to progress their career. | | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:54 - Feb 1 with 4800 views | Pommyhoop |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:25 - Feb 1 by Vish |
Nothing wrong with that for a club of our size. For anyone to move on to the Top 5/6 means they have the quality to press on, play in Europe and maybe even represent their country. I'd be over the moon if we could produce players like that, even if they got sold on for millions to progress their career. |
I think he meant steal them before they are worth millions.Like Sterling to the Scousers.. |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 09:56 - Feb 1 with 4789 views | TGRRRSSS |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:25 - Feb 1 by Vish |
Nothing wrong with that for a club of our size. For anyone to move on to the Top 5/6 means they have the quality to press on, play in Europe and maybe even represent their country. I'd be over the moon if we could produce players like that, even if they got sold on for millions to progress their career. |
No he means take them off us before they've even got past 17 or so and probably not played first team footie, like Dean Parrett and Raheem Sterling for instance - though we did get good deals for them up to a point but in Parrett's case it maybe doomed his career (anyone know where he is now)
I have some concern, but at the end of the day I have no say in it and no money to save us beyond put a few quid in a bucket.
At the same time I do think Fernandes needs to learn a lot more about running a football club and really needs to get back to the beggining. I still feel if the right ambition is applied we could become a very well run club under these guys, BUT everything needs lookking at. |  | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 10:01 - Feb 1 with 4773 views | ozexile |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:25 - Feb 1 by Vish |
Nothing wrong with that for a club of our size. For anyone to move on to the Top 5/6 means they have the quality to press on, play in Europe and maybe even represent their country. I'd be over the moon if we could produce players like that, even if they got sold on for millions to progress their career. |
Let's be realistic as well we wouldn't get half the money for Remy or Samba. Samba already basically went on strike at Blackburn when he didn't get his way. So if he refuses to play for us in the championship on 100,000 a week if someone offered us a million we'd have to take it.
I remember the pride we all felt when Gallen came through or Impey. That's the kind of club we are.
And if we bring talent through and they'd rather go and disappear into Chelsea's reserves then so be it. We can't compensate for that. | | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 10:02 - Feb 1 with 4760 views | TheBlob |
"Life is a gamble.I like to gamble".
Ernest G.Bilko.
In order to accumulate you have to speculate. |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 10:04 - Feb 1 with 4745 views | Phildo |
| Genuine concerns! on 09:18 - Feb 1 by Mytch_QPR |
I'm with you on that - and the club are pressing ahead with the new training ground / academy. However, it takes a long time for this to bear fruit.
The thinking behind the current spending is clearly that we want to be in for the increased funds the PL will bring, we all know how long it took to finally get promoted - if we go down there is no guarantee of an instant return.
Call me old fashioned (or an idealist) but I'd just love to see some players who really care about the club like McDonald, Gallen, Francis etc (I except some current players like Derry, Hill, Mackie from this). |
That day is gone for our club and hard to see it coming back. If another club had been involved in those shenanigans yesterday we all would have been holding our nose.
Our owners are wedded to a 45k stadium which will have a lot of tourists and a global team assembled.
They haven't looked too clever to outsiders though and have no concept of looking for value. In the summer we signed big names on frees and that didn't go so well.
They are building a club that is one they see in a few years - not the one we see today.
I live in south london but come 'home' to rangers and west london geezers calling the latest joey barton a cnt having come from the pub round the corner. Dont think that will be the rangers these boys see in 10 years time.
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| Genuine concerns! on 10:19 - Feb 1 with 4715 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Genuine concerns! on 10:04 - Feb 1 by Phildo |
That day is gone for our club and hard to see it coming back. If another club had been involved in those shenanigans yesterday we all would have been holding our nose.
Our owners are wedded to a 45k stadium which will have a lot of tourists and a global team assembled.
They haven't looked too clever to outsiders though and have no concept of looking for value. In the summer we signed big names on frees and that didn't go so well.
They are building a club that is one they see in a few years - not the one we see today.
I live in south london but come 'home' to rangers and west london geezers calling the latest joey barton a cnt having come from the pub round the corner. Dont think that will be the rangers these boys see in 10 years time.
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Yes - agreed, TF and the board have a long term vision and they are backing that with serious money now. However, don't forget that TF was preaching about financial prudence when he took over, so clearly wants us to ultimately reach a point where we can balance the books. In my view, a good academy system is part of this, hence Warren Farm.
The other interesting story that emerged yesterday was the one that Mark Hughes had met with Samba pre-season but the board held back. Clearly, TF hoped that the squad we started with was good enough for a lower mid-table finish and had probably not plannned this further expenditure.
I see your point about where the club is going - it speaks volumes about the way the whole game is changing, rather than just QPR. | |
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| Genuine concerns! on 12:27 - Feb 1 with 4619 views | QPunkR |
| Genuine concerns! on 10:01 - Feb 1 by ozexile |
Let's be realistic as well we wouldn't get half the money for Remy or Samba. Samba already basically went on strike at Blackburn when he didn't get his way. So if he refuses to play for us in the championship on 100,000 a week if someone offered us a million we'd have to take it.
I remember the pride we all felt when Gallen came through or Impey. That's the kind of club we are.
And if we bring talent through and they'd rather go and disappear into Chelsea's reserves then so be it. We can't compensate for that. |
Yeah I agree. If/when we go down, we'd be forced to sell our biggest players as they wouldn't fancy Championship football, I'm sure. By that point we'd be a confirmed Championship club once more and therefore less able to ask extortionate prices for players.
And the players (or more likely their agents) wouldn't have signed contracts with us with ridiculously high relegation clauses |  |
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| Genuine concerns! on 14:10 - Feb 1 with 4546 views | themodfather |
| Genuine concerns! on 12:27 - Feb 1 by QPunkR |
Yeah I agree. If/when we go down, we'd be forced to sell our biggest players as they wouldn't fancy Championship football, I'm sure. By that point we'd be a confirmed Championship club once more and therefore less able to ask extortionate prices for players.
And the players (or more likely their agents) wouldn't have signed contracts with us with ridiculously high relegation clauses |
well it's the final gamble, the final roll of the dice.
£20m+ laid out
against tv money next season of £75m per team..there's the carrot.
if this goes wrong, no ones paying what we did for players or their wages and we have them on long contracts ( ONE HOPES WE HAVE GET OUT CLAUSES THESE DAYS)
leeds and pompey are 2 words being bandied about.
the simple fact is if we beat teams around us, we stay up
i include wigan,fulham,sunderland,newky,reading, saints and villa in that list but it's a big ask cos they are scrapping too. | | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 15:13 - Feb 1 with 4508 views | Neil_SI |
I think it's a sorry state of affairs and all we've proven over a period of time is that we do not know how to get value for money. The money we've blown has been on a ridiculous scale that shows we've learned very little in that time.
It's the fans who usually end up paying for these mistakes with rises in prices as well, so let's hope that isn't going to be the case for us. |  | | |
| Genuine concerns! on 15:18 - Feb 1 with 4498 views | adhoc_qpr |
The thing is, even if we manage another miraculous survival this season will TF have actually learned any lessons from all of this?
Or will he just give Harry another £40m in the summer to add another layer of players to the already bloated, unbalanced and disrupted squad?
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