| Does Brexit die tonight? 11:59 - Sep 3 with 36059 views | westwalesed |
When this bill passes, which I expect it to, my understanding is that the EU theoretically can propose a different extension to the proposed January 31st, 2020 date currently in the bill.
The bill states that the PM has to accept that date, and that Parliament has two days to either accept or reject it (thereby putting any future extension date in the hands of Parliament as opposed to the PM). Given that we have a remain leaning parliament currently it's hard tp see how any proposed date would be rejected.
PM Johnson would then seek an election as he has stated, but now that it is looking as if the opposition parties may not get to the two-thirds of MPs required to trigger it, there will be no election at all. What then?
With a Govt that has to accept any date given and Parliament refusing to give him an opportunity to change the make up of the Commons, is this the day that Brexit dies?
Is it revoking A50 by the back door? |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:04 - Sep 3 with 8122 views | gadgetuk |
He could call a vote of no confidence in his own government. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:04 - Sep 3 with 8123 views | bluey_the_blue |
I'm sure that's the aim.
Corbyn will be damaged if he refuses to back a GE though. After all, you'd think those wanting no deal removed / remain would want a GE... | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:06 - Sep 3 with 8117 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:04 - Sep 3 by gadgetuk |
He could call a vote of no confidence in his own government. |
Is that possible?
If so, could be a masterstroke.
Vote succeeds, could lead to GE. Tory rebels deselected, back in government with aid of Brexit party and DUP.
Vote fails, has the argument has mandate of HoC to continue on current path. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:09 - Sep 3 with 8106 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:04 - Sep 3 by bluey_the_blue |
I'm sure that's the aim.
Corbyn will be damaged if he refuses to back a GE though. After all, you'd think those wanting no deal removed / remain would want a GE... |
It’ll be the first time that Corbyn will be regarded as statesmanlike. Far from being damaged he will earn more respect than at any point in his career.
No one can trust Johnson. He’s being shown up as a liar. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:11 - Sep 3 with 8098 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:06 - Sep 3 by bluey_the_blue |
Is that possible?
If so, could be a masterstroke.
Vote succeeds, could lead to GE. Tory rebels deselected, back in government with aid of Brexit party and DUP.
Vote fails, has the argument has mandate of HoC to continue on current path. |
He needs a two thirds majority. Looking unlikely if Labour have wised up which seems possible,
Johnson could attempt to amend the FTPA. But again he needs a majorly and also his attempt could be subject to an amendment that inserts a ‘not until an extension’ clause. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:13 - Sep 3 with 8087 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:09 - Sep 3 by londonlisa2001 |
It’ll be the first time that Corbyn will be regarded as statesmanlike. Far from being damaged he will earn more respect than at any point in his career.
No one can trust Johnson. He’s being shown up as a liar. |
Arf!
Wants GE, now wants GE with caveats, then becomes statemanlike for not wanting GE.
Corbyn has been show to be a paragon of virtue?
Everyone has lied to some degree or other. There's no goodie-two-shoes in any of this.
BoJo is at least trying to break the impasse, something nobody else is proposing.
EDIT:
Take no deal off the table? EU won't even bother renegotiating WA which has failed in HoC repeatedly. Why should they? [Post edited 3 Sep 2019 12:14]
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:15 - Sep 3 with 8071 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:11 - Sep 3 by londonlisa2001 |
He needs a two thirds majority. Looking unlikely if Labour have wised up which seems possible,
Johnson could attempt to amend the FTPA. But again he needs a majorly and also his attempt could be subject to an amendment that inserts a ‘not until an extension’ clause. |
Labour and "wised up" in same sentence?
Bit of a stretch that, relies on Seamus Milne having a clue. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:16 - Sep 3 with 8065 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:13 - Sep 3 by bluey_the_blue |
Arf!
Wants GE, now wants GE with caveats, then becomes statemanlike for not wanting GE.
Corbyn has been show to be a paragon of virtue?
Everyone has lied to some degree or other. There's no goodie-two-shoes in any of this.
BoJo is at least trying to break the impasse, something nobody else is proposing.
EDIT:
Take no deal off the table? EU won't even bother renegotiating WA which has failed in HoC repeatedly. Why should they? [Post edited 3 Sep 2019 12:14]
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I can’t stand Corbyn.
If he votes against a GE called by Johnson I will applaud him. It’s not a GE with caveats, it’s an attempt to force a no deal.
The backstop can be removed if there is an alternative. There isn’t. It really is simple. | | | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:19 - Sep 3 with 8048 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:04 - Sep 3 by gadgetuk |
He could call a vote of no confidence in his own government. |
That would be perverse but also slightly hilarious. I think only the official opposition (I.e Labour) can table a binding confidence motion though. I stand to be corrected on that mind. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:22 - Sep 3 with 8031 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:16 - Sep 3 by londonlisa2001 |
I can’t stand Corbyn.
If he votes against a GE called by Johnson I will applaud him. It’s not a GE with caveats, it’s an attempt to force a no deal.
The backstop can be removed if there is an alternative. There isn’t. It really is simple. |
EU can reject an alternative plan presented. Why would they? Would love us trapped in backstop forever.
Until there's the very real prospect of no deal, there's no incentive on their part to consider any plans.
I'd not talk to EU until attempts to block no deal are finally buried.
Corbyn doesn't want a GE full stop. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:23 - Sep 3 with 8024 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:19 - Sep 3 by exiledclaseboy |
That would be perverse but also slightly hilarious. I think only the official opposition (I.e Labour) can table a binding confidence motion though. I stand to be corrected on that mind. |
That was my thought too. I know Lib Dems etc couldn't call VONC whereas official "leader" of "opposition" could. Not sure in PM could. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:26 - Sep 3 with 8014 views | gadgetuk |
Not 100% sure but have heard it talked about a bit - I believe that anyone can call a vote of no confidence but it is only when the official leader of the opposition calls it that a vote must happen. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:27 - Sep 3 with 8009 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:26 - Sep 3 by gadgetuk |
Not 100% sure but have heard it talked about a bit - I believe that anyone can call a vote of no confidence but it is only when the official leader of the opposition calls it that a vote must happen. |
Without a vote, it's pointless though. Ceremonial waste of time. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:29 - Sep 3 with 8000 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:19 - Sep 3 by exiledclaseboy |
That would be perverse but also slightly hilarious. I think only the official opposition (I.e Labour) can table a binding confidence motion though. I stand to be corrected on that mind. |
Only Corbyn can call one.
Johnson can try to change FTPA if he can’t get 2/3rds but needs a majority and can be amended.
It seems like he may have p*ssed off too many Tories...
Plus the documents currently being disclosed in the Scottish courts prove he’s lying to everyone. Imagine my surprise.
Some senior Tories are saying they’ve overplayed their hand. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:30 - Sep 3 with 7994 views | Joe_bradshaw |
Reading this I'm now imagining the PM tabling a vote of no confidence in his own government and the opposition voting against the motion and keeping him in power.
Surreal doesn't even start to describe politics at the moment. |  |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:31 - Sep 3 with 7982 views | bluey_the_blue |
Interesting Major seems to be very much "do as I say not as I do" these days. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:33 - Sep 3 with 7972 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:30 - Sep 3 by Joe_bradshaw |
Reading this I'm now imagining the PM tabling a vote of no confidence in his own government and the opposition voting against the motion and keeping him in power.
Surreal doesn't even start to describe politics at the moment. |
That would be amazing.
BoJo :"Well, so you have confidence in the government, we continue our approach".
Opposition : "Oh, not we didn't actually mean that, we just gamed the system to prevent a general election we've been wanting for ages". | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:35 - Sep 3 with 7966 views | westwalesed |
Whatever happens, it has surely been shown beyond doubt now that the concept of “convention” in place of an actually written constitution is dead. | |
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| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:35 - Sep 3 with 7963 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:33 - Sep 3 by bluey_the_blue |
That would be amazing.
BoJo :"Well, so you have confidence in the government, we continue our approach".
Opposition : "Oh, not we didn't actually mean that, we just gamed the system to prevent a general election we've been wanting for ages". |
Talking about gaming the system, are you following the documents being released in Scotland Bluey? The ones you argued were absolutely not true.
Snigger.
Btw - guido has stated Soames is a lefty - how long before you repeat that? | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:38 - Sep 3 with 7954 views | Pegojack |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:35 - Sep 3 by westwalesed |
Whatever happens, it has surely been shown beyond doubt now that the concept of “convention” in place of an actually written constitution is dead. |
I agree. The UK needs dragging into the 21st century (a) by having a written constitution and (b) adopting a system of proportional representation for general elections. |  | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:40 - Sep 3 with 7943 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:35 - Sep 3 by londonlisa2001 |
Talking about gaming the system, are you following the documents being released in Scotland Bluey? The ones you argued were absolutely not true.
Snigger.
Btw - guido has stated Soames is a lefty - how long before you repeat that? |
When did I argue they weren't correct? Can't remember that. Ooooh, PM had a plan. Gosh, how legally thrilling.
Legal action led by Jo Maugham, who has lost every legal challenge so far. Still, crowdfunding means it's not his money.
I've no real view on Soames tbh. Knocking on a bit, can't see him in HoC too much longer/ | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:42 - Sep 3 with 7939 views | bluey_the_blue |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:38 - Sep 3 by Pegojack |
I agree. The UK needs dragging into the 21st century (a) by having a written constitution and (b) adopting a system of proportional representation for general elections. |
There's no written constitution, but an unwritten one - Acts of Parliament, court judgments and conventions.
I'd agree it needs to be codified ( ECB or others - right word? ).
Not that convinced by PR but not something I'd be vastly opposed to. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:43 - Sep 3 with 7938 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:35 - Sep 3 by westwalesed |
Whatever happens, it has surely been shown beyond doubt now that the concept of “convention” in place of an actually written constitution is dead. |
Unfortunately our system, which has largely relied on its participants being ‘gentlemen’ (or ladies for that matter) cannot withstand someone in charge who is the very antithesis of that.
Anyone who regards themselves as a Conservative should be recoiling in horror. Such is where we are that the more extreme are applauding it. | | | |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:50 - Sep 3 with 7912 views | westwalesed |
| Does Brexit die tonight? on 12:43 - Sep 3 by londonlisa2001 |
Unfortunately our system, which has largely relied on its participants being ‘gentlemen’ (or ladies for that matter) cannot withstand someone in charge who is the very antithesis of that.
Anyone who regards themselves as a Conservative should be recoiling in horror. Such is where we are that the more extreme are applauding it. |
I completely agree. I do recoil at the way that politicians on all sides have behaved appallingly by playing fast and loose with our “conventions/unwritten constitution”. In normal times I would be on the streets like many people have been, but these are not normal times.
The truth is the gloves came off the moment that Parliament delegated this decision in a referendum, and (in a broad sense) has sought to do everything to frustrate that result since. To use one example, John Bercows role in normal times would be completely untenable. Some remainers have turned a blind eye to that so why should I, as a Leaver, in these entirely abnormal times, not turn a blind eye to the obvious timing of the suspension of Parliament.
Our conventions have been trampled on. It’s anything goes now. | |
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