| Bolton to be liquidated this week 11:13 - Aug 26 with 18790 views | RANGERS4EVER |
Unless they find a buyer by 5pm tomorrow. Got to feel sorry for the fans. It's going to be an awful 30 hours for them. Let's hope Ken Anderson stops being an absolute w*nker. |  |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 11:23 - Aug 26 with 9574 views | colinallcars |
The general opinion is that the League should enforce the fit and proper rule but as my wife pointed out, there can't be a lot of well intentioned putative owners around under the present circumstances. The EFL need a proper shake up to make owning a football club a less precarious adventure. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 11:29 - Aug 26 with 9562 views | Snipper |
Maybe they should have a fit and proper person policy when picking people to run the EFL.
That Harvey prick wasn’t fit to clean bogs out, never mind our football. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 12:55 - Aug 26 with 9388 views | ozranger |
By 5pm tomorrow, both Bolton and Bury will be gone. Do the EFL really care? Both have had late buyers refused, Bolton owing to Anderson. Bury have a decent possibility to survive but I'm not counting and chooks yet. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 14:49 - Aug 26 with 9183 views | kropotkin41 |
People, including me, often say that the big clubs should bail the smaller poorer ones out in situations like this.... I presume, in fact, something stops Man City finding enough loose change down the sofa to rescue Bury and Bolton. Rules? |  |
| ‘morbid curiosity about where this is all going’ |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 15:20 - Aug 26 with 9129 views | CFW |
It is a great shame for the fans - they have done nothing wrong and all they want to do is to support their team. But the club is a business just like any other and if they are unable to trade in a solvent way they will, like any other business go pop. I am not sure why rich premier league teams should bail them out no more than cash rich businesses should bail out small businesses that are failing.
Football is all about the big teams and the premier league, is that right? In my view most definitely not but it is not going to change any time soon. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 16:13 - Aug 26 with 9032 views | loftboy |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 14:49 - Aug 26 by kropotkin41 |
People, including me, often say that the big clubs should bail the smaller poorer ones out in situations like this.... I presume, in fact, something stops Man City finding enough loose change down the sofa to rescue Bury and Bolton. Rules? |
Bolton has a great tradition but there’s still a part of me that thinks “they had years in the PL shouldn’t they have squirreled some of the hundreds of millions they got away for an emergency “ [Post edited 26 Aug 2019 16:14]
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 16:29 - Aug 26 with 8989 views | VancouverHoop |
Mutual support for member clubs is surely one of the reasons a league exists, otherwise what are they for? Most have some form of profit sharing to prevent a Bolton/Bury scenario, unfortunately any significant profits in English football vanished with the formation of Premier League. | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 16:34 - Aug 26 with 8980 views | kensalriser |
But football clubs aren't businesses like any other. In fact, they are completely unlike other businesses.
Just one example, all small and medium sized clubs in high land value areas (especially QPR) would already be long gone if the primary objective of the entities running them was to extract maximum financial value. This is why so many pubs have closed in recent years, because there are more lucrative alternative uses.
There should be a central fund to help historic clubs like Bolton and Bury. It would need to be carefully structured so that irresponsible owners aren't bailed out; one solution would be a condition that any club receiving funding would be set up and run as a community trust for a minimum period of time. |  |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 17:42 - Aug 26 with 8892 views | Snipper |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 15:20 - Aug 26 by CFW |
It is a great shame for the fans - they have done nothing wrong and all they want to do is to support their team. But the club is a business just like any other and if they are unable to trade in a solvent way they will, like any other business go pop. I am not sure why rich premier league teams should bail them out no more than cash rich businesses should bail out small businesses that are failing.
Football is all about the big teams and the premier league, is that right? In my view most definitely not but it is not going to change any time soon. |
But it’s not like any other business is it?
How many businesses are out there that are told that they can only spend so much money, and are fined if they overspend?
So it’s not like a normal business, is it? | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 18:09 - Aug 26 with 8824 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 17:42 - Aug 26 by Snipper |
But it’s not like any other business is it?
How many businesses are out there that are told that they can only spend so much money, and are fined if they overspend?
So it’s not like a normal business, is it? |
This. Football is 100% unlike any other kind of normal business. Perhaps the EFL should have put more effort into looking out for Bolton and Bury rather than hammering us over FFP - especially as numerous other clubs now take the complete p iss and simply bend the rules to avoid any FFP penalties. EFL simply isn’t fit for purpose. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 19:41 - Aug 26 with 8699 views | GroveR |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 17:42 - Aug 26 by Snipper |
But it’s not like any other business is it?
How many businesses are out there that are told that they can only spend so much money, and are fined if they overspend?
So it’s not like a normal business, is it? |
Without being facetious, Leave.EU is one that springs to mind. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 20:05 - Aug 26 with 8651 views | CiderwithRsie |
The Bolton and Bury stories tell you a lot about what's wrong with Britain.
I don't know much about either place but these are historic clubs with great footballing history and a source of pride for local people. This piece in The Guardian about Bury hits home- "there's the football club and the market and that's it."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/23/bury-fans-hold-breath-club-teet
Now old traditions die out all the time through going out of date or lack of money, but football's incredibly popular and awash with money yet clubs are dying. People in Bolton and Bury will be able to sit at home texting each other while watching multi-millionaires playing great football in Manchester every week of the year but if they step outside the door there's nothing there - no home town club, no mates on the terrace, no pub, no shared stories or singing, just a load of boarded up shops. | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 21:49 - Aug 26 with 8492 views | LongsufferingR |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 19:41 - Aug 26 by GroveR |
Without being facetious, Leave.EU is one that springs to mind. |
Sir, sir!! GroveR mentioned Brexit. Sir! |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:09 - Aug 26 with 8428 views | Lblock |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 20:05 - Aug 26 by CiderwithRsie |
The Bolton and Bury stories tell you a lot about what's wrong with Britain.
I don't know much about either place but these are historic clubs with great footballing history and a source of pride for local people. This piece in The Guardian about Bury hits home- "there's the football club and the market and that's it."
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/23/bury-fans-hold-breath-club-teet
Now old traditions die out all the time through going out of date or lack of money, but football's incredibly popular and awash with money yet clubs are dying. People in Bolton and Bury will be able to sit at home texting each other while watching multi-millionaires playing great football in Manchester every week of the year but if they step outside the door there's nothing there - no home town club, no mates on the terrace, no pub, no shared stories or singing, just a load of boarded up shops. |
Your last paragraph should resonate with every football fan who loves the game and actually attends fixtures
It’s not about winning the Champions League or the Super Soaraway Sunday quadruple header every week. It’s about everything other than the actual ninety minutes. What comes along with that is a whole wealth of local business being supported, networks of support both in the game and stretching out to every day life
Bury and Bolton will take many businesses with them and thousands of people will be destroyed by this. I despise the EFL and their shocking record of failing to safeguard establishments which are hundreds of years old
The games gone |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:17 - Aug 26 with 8430 views | GloryHunter |
Donald Trump should buy them. Now that he's been told Greenland is not for sale. One of you Twitter lot could suggest it to him? Worth a try . . . |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:21 - Aug 26 with 8422 views | Roller |
Perhaps if clubs made more effort to adhere to FFP rather than recklessly overspend and try to find ways around the regulations then traditional old clubs like Bolton and Bury wouldn't be going to the wall.
Bury took out a £1million loan secured against Gig Lane at an interest rate of 10% a month in their bid to win promotion. That means that at the end of 1 year their loan cost them £1.38million on top of the principle sum.
When they were relegated from the Premier League, Bolton did not cut their cloth accordingly and managed lose a further £50 million in their first season in the championship taking their debt up to over £160 million.
I feel desperately sorry for the clubs' supporters and all the owners and staff of small local businesses who have already gone under, or are struggling like hell not to, as a result of their mismanagement.
I doubt these two will be the last. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:28 - Aug 26 with 8410 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:09 - Aug 26 by Lblock |
Your last paragraph should resonate with every football fan who loves the game and actually attends fixtures
It’s not about winning the Champions League or the Super Soaraway Sunday quadruple header every week. It’s about everything other than the actual ninety minutes. What comes along with that is a whole wealth of local business being supported, networks of support both in the game and stretching out to every day life
Bury and Bolton will take many businesses with them and thousands of people will be destroyed by this. I despise the EFL and their shocking record of failing to safeguard establishments which are hundreds of years old
The games gone |
It's not just football; it's the same with so many other things. Pubs. High Street shops. Test cricket. Gigs you might be able to afford. Proper newspapers. We could all go on.
But football's the worst because the money's there and like you say there are actual authorities supposed to safeguard it. The EFL, the FA, the EPL, FIFA and UEFA have all sold out. | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 01:25 - Aug 27 with 8284 views | GroveR |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 21:49 - Aug 26 by LongsufferingR |
Sir, sir!! GroveR mentioned Brexit. Sir! |
I'll set 'em up, you can pot them  | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 02:10 - Aug 27 with 8265 views | Mistication92 |
Re: the community trust idea. I don't see any real appetite for fan ownership in this country. You see it a bit in non-league, but it's quite rare. The model is still a generous benefactor, who has to underwrite the losses and probably put up with a lot of abuse if things don't go well.
In the FL Exeter and Wimbledon are fan-owned, but a couple of years ago Portsmouth fans sold to that Disney bloke. Even after what they went through they were still tempted by riches and the potential for promotions etc. Seems like fans of 99% of clubs don't want financial reality i.e wages at 55% of turnover, even if that means no chance of promotion etc. and more chance of the sht hitting the fan if things go wrong.
Bury are probably sustainable if they cut their cloth and accept being a League Two/Conference club, but how can Bolton be a solvent business with debts of over 100m? It makes no financial sense why they should continue to trade. | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:06 - Aug 27 with 8074 views | distortR |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:21 - Aug 26 by Roller |
Perhaps if clubs made more effort to adhere to FFP rather than recklessly overspend and try to find ways around the regulations then traditional old clubs like Bolton and Bury wouldn't be going to the wall.
Bury took out a £1million loan secured against Gig Lane at an interest rate of 10% a month in their bid to win promotion. That means that at the end of 1 year their loan cost them £1.38million on top of the principle sum.
When they were relegated from the Premier League, Bolton did not cut their cloth accordingly and managed lose a further £50 million in their first season in the championship taking their debt up to over £160 million.
I feel desperately sorry for the clubs' supporters and all the owners and staff of small local businesses who have already gone under, or are struggling like hell not to, as a result of their mismanagement.
I doubt these two will be the last. |
'Bury took out a £1million loan'
Define Bury.
Are QPR Tony Fernandes? | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:11 - Aug 27 with 8060 views | stevec |
There is a way to sort this out, the Premier League should place a levy of somewhere between 5 and 10% on the players wages.
Keep that aside to assist EFL sides who fall into serious financial problems.
Quite simply these issues are the fault of overpaid players. |  | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:33 - Aug 27 with 8017 views | CFW |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 17:42 - Aug 26 by Snipper |
But it’s not like any other business is it?
How many businesses are out there that are told that they can only spend so much money, and are fined if they overspend?
So it’s not like a normal business, is it? |
Sorry but I do not agree - of course they are businesses. They report their annual accounts into Companies House in the same way as any other business. I accept they are bound by rules and regulations laid down by EFL but that is no different to financial institutions that have to follow the rules and regulations of their governing bodies - FCA for example.
As another poster quite rightly mentioned when these clubs go pop a lot of other businesses, loyal staff are seriously affected and that is not right. Ipswich left a huge trail of unsecured debt to local businesses when they went into administration a few years ago.
Just because they are clubs with a lot of history does not give them the right to be bailed out - many other old established high street stores are no longer around who have been on the high street for many years. | | | |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:35 - Aug 27 with 8016 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:11 - Aug 27 by stevec |
There is a way to sort this out, the Premier League should place a levy of somewhere between 5 and 10% on the players wages.
Keep that aside to assist EFL sides who fall into serious financial problems.
Quite simply these issues are the fault of overpaid players. |
can't agree steve.
All clubs need to manage themselves properly. You can't blame players for taking wages that are offered. And while the EFL has its share of blame, this is almost all down to poor club stewardship - something we all know about.
You also can't have a system where clubs are given a license to gamble knowing if they get in dire straits some hand-out fund will bail them out - that's a nonsense.
Feel awful for both these clubs. Not sure what the answer is, but for all the awful things about FFP, one good thing is that a lot of clubs are sticking to it and managing their money accordingly. |  |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:35 - Aug 27 with 8016 views | Miss_Terraces |
| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 22:21 - Aug 26 by Roller |
Perhaps if clubs made more effort to adhere to FFP rather than recklessly overspend and try to find ways around the regulations then traditional old clubs like Bolton and Bury wouldn't be going to the wall.
Bury took out a £1million loan secured against Gig Lane at an interest rate of 10% a month in their bid to win promotion. That means that at the end of 1 year their loan cost them £1.38million on top of the principle sum.
When they were relegated from the Premier League, Bolton did not cut their cloth accordingly and managed lose a further £50 million in their first season in the championship taking their debt up to over £160 million.
I feel desperately sorry for the clubs' supporters and all the owners and staff of small local businesses who have already gone under, or are struggling like hell not to, as a result of their mismanagement.
I doubt these two will be the last. |
Adhering to FFP?
Clubs can lose £130 million plus over 10 years and still adhere to FFP.
That's not including youth development, stadium costs, interest etc.
How is this sustainable? Clubs should be looking to break even. | |
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| Bolton to be liquidated this week on 08:45 - Aug 27 with 7984 views | loftboy |
“How is this sustainable? Clubs should be looking to break even.”.
As a bare minimum, being allowed to lose so much legally is suicidal as the case is now being proven. | |
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