| BBC Question Time 12:51 - Jun 18 with 6435 views | Lohengrin |
I’ve finally had chance to watch the episode that aired on the 14th and find myself getting more and more frustrated with the format of what used to be the Beeb’s flagship politics programme. It’s in need of a good shake-up.
How much better had it simply consisted of a debate between John Mann and Dominic Grieve with David Dimbleby in the chair? An informed pro-Brexit view from the left and its obverse from the right with all the screen-time eating frippery and distraction stripped away.
As it was I wasted over half the programme hitting the fast-forward button getting to the segments of any worth. The audience was the first to go. Isabel Oakeshott, ever decorous but in this context dispensable; Matthew Wright, this week’s token non-politico making the invariably pointless contribution; Leanne Wood, Penygraig’s platitude-mumbling numbskull illustrating perfectly why calling polytechnics universities doesn’t make it so.
The purpose of a programme like that ought to be to provoke and inform, not to parade a selection of cliches. The place where, as Runciman said, ”the truth goes to die.” |  |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:04 - Jun 18 with 3471 views | Professor |
Are you suggesting that post '92 Universities are not all uniformly brilliant in the way the National Student Survey and the new Teaching Evaluation Framework (TEF) suggests with their gold awards?
That it is all a charade of ticking boxes rather than any real quality or substance?
You will get strung up by the Higher Education Academy for such heresy. |  | | |
| BBC Question Time on 13:08 - Jun 18 with 3465 views | Kilkennyjack |
The Oakeshott description is quite brilliant ... 😂.
Dimblebot has announced his exit.
Who will replace him ?
Huw ?
Kirsty ?
Trev ?
Its gone to the bloody dogs. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| BBC Question Time on 13:13 - Jun 18 with 3453 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 13:04 - Jun 18 by Professor |
Are you suggesting that post '92 Universities are not all uniformly brilliant in the way the National Student Survey and the new Teaching Evaluation Framework (TEF) suggests with their gold awards?
That it is all a charade of ticking boxes rather than any real quality or substance?
You will get strung up by the Higher Education Academy for such heresy. |
Let me put it this way: I’ve had occasion in the past to have visited both Jesus College, Oxford and Treforest Poly. I can’t recall having mixed the two up in my mind.  | |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:16 - Jun 18 with 3446 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 13:08 - Jun 18 by Kilkennyjack |
The Oakeshott description is quite brilliant ... 😂.
Dimblebot has announced his exit.
Who will replace him ?
Huw ?
Kirsty ?
Trev ?
Its gone to the bloody dogs. |
Who would you like to see in the chair, Killy? | |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:24 - Jun 18 with 3422 views | LeonWasGod |
It was all down hill after Robin Day's dickie bows. |  | | |
| BBC Question Time on 13:28 - Jun 18 with 3411 views | Professor |
| BBC Question Time on 13:13 - Jun 18 by Lohengrin |
Let me put it this way: I’ve had occasion in the past to have visited both Jesus College, Oxford and Treforest Poly. I can’t recall having mixed the two up in my mind. |
Really. That does surprise me! Never mind. With the nature of HE policy over our last five Prime Ministers the race to the bottom is going well, so eventually it may actually be harder to discern (though Oxbridge may remain immune). Accelerated greatly by the current lot admitedly who really don't get it all. Not that Corbyn's abolish fees approach will work either. | | | |
| BBC Question Time on 13:34 - Jun 18 with 3401 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 13:24 - Jun 18 by LeonWasGod |
It was all down hill after Robin Day's dickie bows. |
In those days of course we also had a political class who had genuine life experience to draw on and you knew that whatever came out of their mouths was the result of what was in their mind, not the result of regurgitated spin doctor’s brief. | |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:36 - Jun 18 with 3395 views | moonie |
Agreed Loh.
I do have a lot of time for John Mann though.
He s his own man and I d vote for him ,if I had the choice . | | | |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:47 - Jun 18 with 3367 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 13:28 - Jun 18 by Professor |
Really. That does surprise me! Never mind. With the nature of HE policy over our last five Prime Ministers the race to the bottom is going well, so eventually it may actually be harder to discern (though Oxbridge may remain immune). Accelerated greatly by the current lot admitedly who really don't get it all. Not that Corbyn's abolish fees approach will work either. |
Another thing, just as an aside, are you able to pin-point how and why ‘elite’ has become a pejorative term?
I couldn’t begin to count the number of things I don’t understand in 2018, but that’s one I continually scratch my head over. | |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:48 - Jun 18 with 3366 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 13:36 - Jun 18 by moonie |
Agreed Loh.
I do have a lot of time for John Mann though.
He s his own man and I d vote for him ,if I had the choice . |
He’s certainly one of the more interesting panellists they have on there, Perch. | |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:53 - Jun 18 with 3353 views | moonie |
He s so because he has convictions which are genuine . He s fronted up to Corby many times and ,no question about it, if the likes of Mann were leading the Labour Party,Ms May would be cleaning her Orangery after a Coffee morning in the local village hall .
What this country needs is a labour leader ,any leader in fact, with drive ,conviction ,focus and able to articulate the arcane shenanigans of political machinations | | | |
| BBC Question Time on 13:57 - Jun 18 with 3349 views | monmouth |
| BBC Question Time on 13:04 - Jun 18 by Professor |
Are you suggesting that post '92 Universities are not all uniformly brilliant in the way the National Student Survey and the new Teaching Evaluation Framework (TEF) suggests with their gold awards?
That it is all a charade of ticking boxes rather than any real quality or substance?
You will get strung up by the Higher Education Academy for such heresy. |
UWE just got gold TEF, University of Bristol did not.
How can you possibly doubt their accuracy?
Most old universities can’t be called universities anymore. The old, venerable, and living on its reputation, institution where I pass some of my time has dumbed down at an alarming rate in the last 5 years. More government interference will accelerate the process, and destroy the golden goose of the UK university sector in general. Sure as eggs is chickens. |  |
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| BBC Question Time on 13:57 - Jun 18 with 3347 views | Professor |
| BBC Question Time on 13:47 - Jun 18 by Lohengrin |
Another thing, just as an aside, are you able to pin-point how and why ‘elite’ has become a pejorative term?
I couldn’t begin to count the number of things I don’t understand in 2018, but that’s one I continually scratch my head over. |
It should not be. It seems to be rather the case for the Russell Group where described the as 'elite universities' is usually followed by something disparaging. Seems to become associated with privilege rather than describing something that is excellent or good. | | | |
| BBC Question Time on 13:58 - Jun 18 with 3344 views | waynekerr55 |
| BBC Question Time on 13:04 - Jun 18 by Professor |
Are you suggesting that post '92 Universities are not all uniformly brilliant in the way the National Student Survey and the new Teaching Evaluation Framework (TEF) suggests with their gold awards?
That it is all a charade of ticking boxes rather than any real quality or substance?
You will get strung up by the Higher Education Academy for such heresy. |
PM incoming |  |
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| BBC Question Time on 14:02 - Jun 18 with 3335 views | Professor |
| BBC Question Time on 13:57 - Jun 18 by monmouth |
UWE just got gold TEF, University of Bristol did not.
How can you possibly doubt their accuracy?
Most old universities can’t be called universities anymore. The old, venerable, and living on its reputation, institution where I pass some of my time has dumbed down at an alarming rate in the last 5 years. More government interference will accelerate the process, and destroy the golden goose of the UK university sector in general. Sure as eggs is chickens. |
As you see Monmouth I think TEF is a joke. Much of these ranking systems is based on the opinion of current final years. Making life as easy as possible and having a Starbucks on campus seems to be key.
If you asked me what I though about my UG institution in 1990 I would have been negative. 28 years later I can see how excellent my education was then. So 1990 I would have said 4/10, in 2018 i would say 9/10. [Post edited 18 Jun 2018 14:05]
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| BBC Question Time on 14:07 - Jun 18 with 3318 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 13:57 - Jun 18 by monmouth |
UWE just got gold TEF, University of Bristol did not.
How can you possibly doubt their accuracy?
Most old universities can’t be called universities anymore. The old, venerable, and living on its reputation, institution where I pass some of my time has dumbed down at an alarming rate in the last 5 years. More government interference will accelerate the process, and destroy the golden goose of the UK university sector in general. Sure as eggs is chickens. |
Doesn’t UWE cater primarily for specialised medical-related courses like midwifery and radiotherapy etc..? That being the case UWE falls outside of the scope of what I’m griping about and is as essential as it gets.
Please correct me if I’ve got that wrong, Mon | |
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| BBC Question Time on 14:17 - Jun 18 with 3297 views | Professor |
| BBC Question Time on 14:07 - Jun 18 by Lohengrin |
Doesn’t UWE cater primarily for specialised medical-related courses like midwifery and radiotherapy etc..? That being the case UWE falls outside of the scope of what I’m griping about and is as essential as it gets.
Please correct me if I’ve got that wrong, Mon |
Not sure as never been there. I think it has a wide portfolio though Loh. You hit a good point. Places like Cardiff Metropolitan are primarily training for vocational degrees (from biomedical scientists to social workers), art and design, sport and hospitality. They are often very good at this. What Jo Public does not get is that this is not the same as a Russell Group Institution. The other problem is that comparing teaching for someone who will be a dental technician to someone who wants to undertake a research career is stupid. The result is the latter 'academic' degree has been dumbed down. Research Project students in year 3 have now never read primary research (say in my area Microbiology) and cannot cope or understand how to ask a research question let alone consider hypothesis-driven research or concepts. This goes back to your original point. | | | |
| BBC Question Time on 14:38 - Jun 18 with 3267 views | monmouth |
| BBC Question Time on 14:07 - Jun 18 by Lohengrin |
Doesn’t UWE cater primarily for specialised medical-related courses like midwifery and radiotherapy etc..? That being the case UWE falls outside of the scope of what I’m griping about and is as essential as it gets.
Please correct me if I’ve got that wrong, Mon |
It does nursing I believe, Loh, so may cover some of the others, but it is not just a specialist institution. In those areas it is more about training than a genuine university (wider contextual critical evaluation) education. if You are asking about comparing it with Glamorgan or whatever they are since chumming up with Newport, then I would say it’s a class above. To illustrate my point on the so called TEF though, Swansea Met finished above Southampton I believe.
Fact is you can’t measure what matters, and so the measurements are fairly useless proxies. Universities are being turned into extensions of schools, with spoon fed materials, passing exams and grade inflation the order of the day, plus ‘fat cat profit driven business discipline’. Genuine education is largely being forgotten. You have probably read more books in the last year....actually let’s just say opened more books than either student cohort I have dealt with over the same period. Maybe I’m being unkind to the many excellent committed students, but immediate google gratification without thinking is now a ubiquitous first port of call. [Post edited 18 Jun 2018 15:23]
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| BBC Question Time on 14:43 - Jun 18 with 3258 views | monmouth |
| BBC Question Time on 14:17 - Jun 18 by Professor |
Not sure as never been there. I think it has a wide portfolio though Loh. You hit a good point. Places like Cardiff Metropolitan are primarily training for vocational degrees (from biomedical scientists to social workers), art and design, sport and hospitality. They are often very good at this. What Jo Public does not get is that this is not the same as a Russell Group Institution. The other problem is that comparing teaching for someone who will be a dental technician to someone who wants to undertake a research career is stupid. The result is the latter 'academic' degree has been dumbed down. Research Project students in year 3 have now never read primary research (say in my area Microbiology) and cannot cope or understand how to ask a research question let alone consider hypothesis-driven research or concepts. This goes back to your original point. |
I wish I’d read this first, would have saved me some typing. | |
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| BBC Question Time on 15:38 - Jun 18 with 3184 views | Professor |
| BBC Question Time on 14:43 - Jun 18 by monmouth |
I wish I’d read this first, would have saved me some typing. |
Lecture streaming is the one that really gets me going. Somewhat annoyed as I was called into the main campus at short notice as 4 out of 180 exam scripts did not have ticks that matched the marks. All the marks were correct. Every paper unless question was answered 5/5 had written feedback. The problem was to fit the marking scheme one component had two half marks (1 mark), the others full marks for each part (2 marks). This did not follow 'school policy'. I am not a member of any teaching school, though contribute to three different degrees from three schools (medicine, vets and life sciences). So I get to drive to Liverpool, pay 3.60 tolls, pay to park and waste 2 hours adding a total of 4 ticks. Sums it up for me. | | | |
| BBC Question Time on 17:34 - Jun 18 with 3074 views | londonlisa2001 |
| BBC Question Time on 13:47 - Jun 18 by Lohengrin |
Another thing, just as an aside, are you able to pin-point how and why ‘elite’ has become a pejorative term?
I couldn’t begin to count the number of things I don’t understand in 2018, but that’s one I continually scratch my head over. |
Same sort of time as ‘clever’ became an insult.
As per, the utterly odious excuse for a journalist, Isabel Oakeshott turning to Dominic Grieve QC and accusing him, yes accusing him, of being ‘clever with your clever answers’.
Because perish the thought our constitutional future is being talked about by someone who is clever. Far better to have some vacuous twerp like Oakeshott who transparently couldn’t understand the lyrics of the latest One Direction song commenting.
Thank God Dimbleby is going. His performance on QT over the past couple of years in particular has been woeful. | | | |
| BBC Question Time on 17:39 - Jun 18 with 3082 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 17:34 - Jun 18 by londonlisa2001 |
Same sort of time as ‘clever’ became an insult.
As per, the utterly odious excuse for a journalist, Isabel Oakeshott turning to Dominic Grieve QC and accusing him, yes accusing him, of being ‘clever with your clever answers’.
Because perish the thought our constitutional future is being talked about by someone who is clever. Far better to have some vacuous twerp like Oakeshott who transparently couldn’t understand the lyrics of the latest One Direction song commenting.
Thank God Dimbleby is going. His performance on QT over the past couple of years in particular has been woeful. |
She’s not a hack, though. Didn’t she say so on the programme?  | |
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| BBC Question Time on 17:43 - Jun 18 with 3053 views | Darran |
Fuçk fuçking Question Time cut your old mans lawn it’s making the close look untidy. |  |
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| BBC Question Time on 17:49 - Jun 18 with 3057 views | Lohengrin |
| BBC Question Time on 17:43 - Jun 18 by Darran |
Fuçk fuçking Question Time cut your old mans lawn it’s making the close look untidy. |
He’s paid you to say that, hasn’t he?? 
I would have gone over and cut it today if the weather wasn’t so shit. I’ll give it a bash if I get a chance midweek. I’ll call in after that, get some tidy biscuits in! | |
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| BBC Question Time on 17:58 - Jun 18 with 3043 views | MrSwerve |
| BBC Question Time on 13:04 - Jun 18 by Professor |
Are you suggesting that post '92 Universities are not all uniformly brilliant in the way the National Student Survey and the new Teaching Evaluation Framework (TEF) suggests with their gold awards?
That it is all a charade of ticking boxes rather than any real quality or substance?
You will get strung up by the Higher Education Academy for such heresy. |
TEF is teaching 'excellence' framework, isn't it?
My institution is looking like we're heading for TEF gold this year, which is good in terms of PR...thankfully we're known for our student-centric learning so it's just rubber stamping what we already actually do.
Must say though that all of the talk about TEF and NSS drives me crazy. There's so much focus on PR that I feel that the actual service we give is put on the backburner by some. Personally I focus on the academic side but some people enjoy the whole NSS thing.
Just got out of a 4 hour meeting on the NSS, TEF and 'selling' the university funny enough. Riveting. |  |
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