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Despite every indicator being that it will be a disaster for our economy and that the Leave campaign sold their voters a pack of lies were still doing it anyway.
Funny that, every one I know in business seems to think things are going remarkably well.
For those not in business, have a look at your private pensions since June 23rd, that'll cheer you up.
The markets are up dramatically, mainly due to sterling weakness. Apart from the initial hit the economy will probably remian fairly stable for the next 2 years too while we negotiate, but uncertainty will stop people getting too bullish and then once we're clear and this decision becomes a reality, I doubt there will be much to be happy about.
Plenty of hassles ahead but, hypothetically, if we were never in the EC then I would be deeply concerned about us joining an economic area with such deep problems of it's own.
I voted remain, optimistically yet unconvinced. I approach brexit the same way.
Despite every indicator being that it will be a disaster for our economy and that the Leave campaign sold their voters a pack of lies were still doing it anyway.
Sounds like a pretty neutral take on the debate!! Plenty of lies in both camps I think but let's face it no-one really knows what will happen do they? I suspect our leaving will trigger several other countries to do the same.
If the EU is so confident and cool about it's future, why do we have hysterical outbursts from Juncker and a few others every week?
I personally believe the EU will be finished within 10 years as we understand it today.
Of course all this could have been avoided if we'd followed the French and the germans down the years - do as we like but turn up for whatever we can get from the EU.
If the EU is so confident and cool about it's future, why do we have hysterical outbursts from Juncker and a few others every week?
I personally believe the EU will be finished within 10 years as we understand it today.
Of course all this could have been avoided if we'd followed the French and the germans down the years - do as we like but turn up for whatever we can get from the EU.
But know, we HAD to obey everything they said.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2017 13:34]
Could not agree more. France and Germany use the EU for their own benefit whereas when the commission said jump we asked how high. If only they had given Cameron something the referendum result might have been different but they refused to budge not least becuase Cameron himself really did not want to upset the status quo
I won't get into a long one on this, but it seems to me that the EU are upset because this weakens both them and us.
I don't really understand the glee around the fact the EU is going to fall on hard times because we are leaving (which is true, IMO). They're our neighbours and main trading partners, and there's a big mutual need on both sides. They won't be able to sell into Brexit Britain if we're skint either.
I won't get into a long one on this, but it seems to me that the EU are upset because this weakens both them and us.
I don't really understand the glee around the fact the EU is going to fall on hard times because we are leaving (which is true, IMO). They're our neighbours and main trading partners, and there's a big mutual need on both sides. They won't be able to sell into Brexit Britain if we're skint either.
Hard to see many winners out of all this.
"United we stand, divided we fall".
A union by definition has to be just that but IMO it's a failing set up, bogged down with bureaucracy and haemorrhaging money.
The Leave campaigned lied, the Remain campaigned lied. The big issue for me is why in the 21st Century we have a situation where politicians/Party's can get away with effectively bull$hitting the public. On a smaller scale Major of London Boris Johnson did so many u-turns it makes his pre-election campaign a list of false promises.
Surely there has to be some constitutional situation where they can't tell lies, tell un-truths, make false-promises etc. without there being some kind of personal/party consequences/accountability etc. as currently I can't see any so they just get away with it time after time.
I won't get into a long one on this, but it seems to me that the EU are upset because this weakens both them and us.
I don't really understand the glee around the fact the EU is going to fall on hard times because we are leaving (which is true, IMO). They're our neighbours and main trading partners, and there's a big mutual need on both sides. They won't be able to sell into Brexit Britain if we're skint either.
Hard to see many winners out of all this.
I don't really see the glee you are talking about?
I voted out but certainly don't feel any glee about it and no-one I have spoken to has either.
Finally, 9 months after the vote, the UK is ready to trigger Article 50 which will start the 2 year process of leaving the EU. However, judging by the monumentally abject performance of David Davis in front of the Brexit Select Committee, the UK is no more ready for those negotiations than they were on June 24th. Does anybody outside of May and her 3 stooges seriously believe that the divorce settlement and a new Free Trade Agreement can be concluded in under 2 years? Over the next 2 years the UK will have to amend or update around 200,000 pieces of legislation. In many cases, that will involve creating a replacement UK organisation to replace the current EU ones. At a high level, the negotiations will need to cover, inter alia, the following areas: Decide the status of EU nationals living in the UK and the status of UK nationals living in other EU countries. This will have to cover residency rights, health care and pensions. The European Medicines Agency which licences all drugs for the European market EURATOM, which licenses nuclear material transport and storage, control and testing. There are 20,000 tons of uranium stored at Sellafield. All the current regulators and all the test equipment are their responsibility. They report to the EU Commission Passporting rights for financial services companies. Last year financial services paid £71bn in corporation taxes and employs over 1m people, not all in London. The land borders between the EU and UK territories. The Northern Ireland border is 500km with 260 crossing points. Then there’s the border between Spain and Gibraltar. European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation control air traffic management across Europe, including low cost and holiday flights from the UK. Trade agreements with the EU27 and over 20 associated countries. Trade with South Korea has grown 104% since the EU/Korea agreement was signed in 2011 If no deal is achieved, we will revert to WTO rules. That means 10% tariffs on cars and components, and up to 57% on meat products, e.g. beef and lamb. An added complexity is tariff quotas, where a certain amount of product attracts lower tariffs than the standard rate. If the current agreement between New Zealand and the EU stated 228,00 tons at Zero % (instead of 50+). How much will the UK’s share be post-Brexit? The UK currently takes around 80% of NS lamb exports but the agreement on quotas is between the EU and NZ NOT the UK and NZ.
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Finally, 9 months after the vote, the UK is ready to trigger Article 50 which will start the 2 year process of leaving the EU. However, judging by the monumentally abject performance of David Davis in front of the Brexit Select Committee, the UK is no more ready for those negotiations than they were on June 24th. Does anybody outside of May and her 3 stooges seriously believe that the divorce settlement and a new Free Trade Agreement can be concluded in under 2 years? Over the next 2 years the UK will have to amend or update around 200,000 pieces of legislation. In many cases, that will involve creating a replacement UK organisation to replace the current EU ones. At a high level, the negotiations will need to cover, inter alia, the following areas: Decide the status of EU nationals living in the UK and the status of UK nationals living in other EU countries. This will have to cover residency rights, health care and pensions. The European Medicines Agency which licences all drugs for the European market EURATOM, which licenses nuclear material transport and storage, control and testing. There are 20,000 tons of uranium stored at Sellafield. All the current regulators and all the test equipment are their responsibility. They report to the EU Commission Passporting rights for financial services companies. Last year financial services paid £71bn in corporation taxes and employs over 1m people, not all in London. The land borders between the EU and UK territories. The Northern Ireland border is 500km with 260 crossing points. Then there’s the border between Spain and Gibraltar. European Organisation for the Safety of Air Navigation control air traffic management across Europe, including low cost and holiday flights from the UK. Trade agreements with the EU27 and over 20 associated countries. Trade with South Korea has grown 104% since the EU/Korea agreement was signed in 2011 If no deal is achieved, we will revert to WTO rules. That means 10% tariffs on cars and components, and up to 57% on meat products, e.g. beef and lamb. An added complexity is tariff quotas, where a certain amount of product attracts lower tariffs than the standard rate. If the current agreement between New Zealand and the EU stated 228,00 tons at Zero % (instead of 50+). How much will the UK’s share be post-Brexit? The UK currently takes around 80% of NS lamb exports but the agreement on quotas is between the EU and NZ NOT the UK and NZ.
Firstly the timing of the trigger has been decided by us , would we start it if we were not ready? . We have had control of the timing since June 23rd . They will adopt all EU legislation into UK law and repeal whatever we dont like later , we have control so we get to cherry pick . We have twice offered to settle the right of EU citizens before the trigger , this offer has twice been rejected by France and Germany. Not sure what your source is for the EU/ Korea 104% is . In 2016 The EU commission announced 55% . That took them six years to negotiate .
All of your other points are subject to the negotiations , some we will be happy with some we may not . You do not know which any more than I .
You totally ignore the EU need to access our intelligence services, their own security as we know is a shambles because of Chengen .
Thanks for not trumpeting your economic experts, that would have taken me all evening to find and link all of the retractions where they admitted that they got it completely wrong. The EU is presiding over tragic levels of unemployment in young people all over the continent , they have no answer to it as they had no plan or answer to the refugee crisis.
I would expect you to be critical , you have skin in the game regarding the exchange rate and I respect that but it was overvalued before
Could not agree more. France and Germany use the EU for their own benefit whereas when the commission said jump we asked how high. If only they had given Cameron something the referendum result might have been different but they refused to budge not least becuase Cameron himself really did not want to upset the status quo
[Post edited 20 Mar 2017 15:19]
It wasnt a choice between leaving or the status quo, It was leaving or being seen to completely endorse the closer integration plan .
The have held back on the controversial stuff while we hadnt triggered , in case there was a chance we would stay .
Why don't we just fvck it all off, the EU, the Union, everything and just fend for ourselves without co operation or interaction with anything outside our front door.
I don't really see the glee you are talking about?
I voted out but certainly don't feel any glee about it and no-one I have spoken to has either.
Plenty of glee about it in social media land, mainly from the same people that like to post racist and anti muslim sentiment etc. Leave couldn't have won wihtout the votes of these people.
Plenty of glee about it in social media land, mainly from the same people that like to post racist and anti muslim sentiment etc. Leave couldn't have won wihtout the votes of these people.
We were promised a referendum on the EUropean Constitution (oh sorry they changed the name and we were denied a vote)
Brown and Miliband knew they would lose so they went and signed it and lots of vetos away with it. I think some people thought this was the start of a nice cosy Federal Europe.
I'm rather glad I've helped put an end to that nonsense.
If we'd had a vote on Lisbon, Brexit wouldn't have happened so all those who laughed at those who wanted a vote in 2007 the boot's on the other foot now.
Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent
Plenty of glee about it in social media land, mainly from the same people that like to post racist and anti muslim sentiment etc. Leave couldn't have won wihtout the votes of these people.
[Post edited 21 Mar 2017 5:27]
Well lots of anti leave voters conveniently liked to call the leave voters racist which I found a sweeping generalisation.
Well lots of anti leave voters conveniently liked to call the leave voters racist which I found a sweeping generalisation.
And because of that ordinary leave voters declined to say what they were voting and because of that the Remainers in Government were complacent and because of that ... we are leaving .
Oh great, another Brexit thread. Really looking forward to finding out which posters have changed their entrenched views since the last one three quarters of an hour ago.
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