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Got pelters on here a few weeks back for saying I felt Grant Hall had major weaknesses in his game - so here goes for 2nds.
For me he is just too weak and definitely far far too weak in the air. He gets dominated by strikers and when crosses and corners come in he doesn't command the box.
To prove my point you only have to look at the change since Hill & Angella have come in.
Here are the highlights of a Motm performance by Grant Hall earlier this season, it's basically 2 mins 30 seconds of him winning headers and dominating strikers...
So, no in a word!
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 17:19 - Mar 21 with 10216 views
I know stats don't always show the full picture but Hall's actually averages the most aerial duels won per game of our centrebacks according to WhoScored. He averages 3.5, beating out Hill (3.4), Onuoha (3.1), Angella (2.9).
I'd respectfully disagree with your view. What's changed since Hill and Angella have come in? If anything, surely the fact the defence capitulated at Mk Dons when Hall went off at half time suggests he's a very important defender for us? Hill has been great recently, but equally Hall played perfectly well before his injury, with clean sheets against Ipswich and Birmingham. That Ipswich performance was especially impressive, given the conditions and the fact he was up against Daryl Murphy for much of the second half. He won a hell of a lot in the air that day, and has an extra bit of composure on the ball compared to Hill or Onuoha.
I'm not saying he's faultless or anything, but he's one of the few real success stories of this season, and bar the Fulham home game, has been good, and improving, every time I've seen him this season.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 17:28 - Mar 21 with 10195 views
Stronger at the back without Hall on 17:19 - Mar 21 by WadR
I know stats don't always show the full picture but Hall's actually averages the most aerial duels won per game of our centrebacks according to WhoScored. He averages 3.5, beating out Hill (3.4), Onuoha (3.1), Angella (2.9).
I'd respectfully disagree with your view. What's changed since Hill and Angella have come in? If anything, surely the fact the defence capitulated at Mk Dons when Hall went off at half time suggests he's a very important defender for us? Hill has been great recently, but equally Hall played perfectly well before his injury, with clean sheets against Ipswich and Birmingham. That Ipswich performance was especially impressive, given the conditions and the fact he was up against Daryl Murphy for much of the second half. He won a hell of a lot in the air that day, and has an extra bit of composure on the ball compared to Hill or Onuoha.
I'm not saying he's faultless or anything, but he's one of the few real success stories of this season, and bar the Fulham home game, has been good, and improving, every time I've seen him this season.
'I'm not saying he's faultless or anything, but he's one of the few real success stories of this season, and bar the Fulham home game, has been good, and improving, every time I've seen him this season.'
Bang on. I think we have to play credit to how well Hill has played, rather than say Hall is any kind of weak link. It wan't his fault we conceded late against PNE, that was a bit of a tactical error. We are just lucky to have Clint around to step up to the plate when needed, and that's how we should be playing him. Hall is captain material and we need to keep Clint on to pass on everything he can over the next few seasons.
Hall is the "stand-out" player of the season for me. I have not seen him been completely dominated by any player so far this season (I stand to be corrected). It is great that the current pairing have done well, but the question you should ask is who will partner Hall next season, as he would be in my starting eleven every week.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 18:12 - Mar 21 with 10090 views
What I have seen of Hall, he has looked very promising. In fact, I think alongside Angella, they look very assured.
But as has been pointed out, players play differently depending on who they are playing with. Anyone alongside Hill is going to benefit and I think the issue for JFH, isn't whether Hall is good enough, but who will he play alongside him next season?
Ned is not the assured adonis to be best paired with Hall in my view as he needs someone like a Dunne or a Hill to sure him up. I think Hall is not in such need of a senior figure alongside but when Angella goes, we're going to need another CB.
Luckily, Hill still has a good four or five years left in those legs to come in and do a job well into the next decade, when one of the main pairing is absent due to injury or suspension.
'Always In Motion' by John Honney available on amazon.co.uk
Lets ave it right Westbourne... you pick the place, the time and bring yer dinna.... coz yer gunna need it
I'll fight any man who says Hall is pony. 100% P.o.T.Y which I know isn't saying much this year but still.
I would agree he's not the quickest, also that a bit more strength never going to go amiss, but if he carries on developing the way I've seen him over the course of this season, then we'll really struggle to hold onto him.
Nuff said
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
Hall is obviously not the finished article like Hill but has potential to be a top class CB. If we could keep Hill on as player /coach Hall could really benefit. I've said it before as have others but i would sign Angella next season as well.
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 18:38 - Mar 21 with 10006 views
Wow, people really think Clint has another few seasons or even four or five years left? The guy's 37! I know he's been defying expectations almost ever since he arrived but I really doubt he has more than another season even as a super sub.
Stronger at the back without Hall on 18:38 - Mar 21 by WestbourneR
I don't think I've ever found anyone who agrees with me on this. I think that might be telling me something.
I defy all stats though and believe my own careful stats analysis
My approach to arguing a point where everybody disagrees with me and the stats are stacked against me is to use the formula below:-
Facts/popular opinion X strength of everybody else's view Divide by number of pints of had Then minus the square root of the fcuk I give for anyone else's argument X my view
= I was right all along.
It works. I mean did I ever share with you my opinion of Chris Ramsey.....
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 19:51 - Mar 21 with 9813 views
Stronger at the back without Hall on 17:28 - Mar 21 by daveB
I've not seen him get dominated by a striker all season
Donaldson away at Brum. Not at home, but away, early in the season he was bullied, especially the first half.
He and Angella got bullied at home to Bolton, home to Blackburn, and away to Fulham. Go back and read Clive's reports if you want to refresh your memory.
Not that I agree with the OP, but Hall and Angella absolutely were bullied by opposing centre forwards when they were together. Our stats, I believe, in terms or goals conceded per game for the centre halves at the club are best for Hill, then Ned, then Hill, then Angella. Would need to run the numbers again but a couple of months ago (discounting Hill, who had barely played at that point), that was definitely the order.
Hall has been very good this season, surpassing expectations and improving over the season but I'm not sure he's quite as good as some think and some have certainly forgotten some of his weaker performances.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 22:22 - Mar 21 with 9612 views
Stronger at the back without Hall on 18:44 - Mar 21 by kensalriser
Wow, people really think Clint has another few seasons or even four or five years left? The guy's 37! I know he's been defying expectations almost ever since he arrived but I really doubt he has more than another season even as a super sub.
Maybe not 4 or 5 years but I can see him play one more season at least judging by his recent performances. The guy is like a Terminator
Occasional providers of half decent House music.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 22:35 - Mar 21 with 9584 views
Given the capitulation at MK after he was injured (only away game for me this season so I was neither pissed or coked up and was watching the game) I think it's safe to say that was a good example of the team with and without Hall.
I love Hill to bits but we need to plan ahead and when compared to the likes of the Ferdinands at the back or dare I say it Ned, Hall is competent in all aspects of the game and will improve. Remember this is his first season of regular first team game time and his confidence must have taken a knock when he was dropped after Angella turned up.
The kid's done well and stats that suggest otherwise are a load of old bollox!
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 22:49 - Mar 21 with 9555 views
Moving Onuoha to full back has been the biggest plus point. We have looked more solid and I have never felt comfortable with him in the middle. Great athlete but for me he gets caught out too often and relies heavily on his pace and last ditch tackles. This often makes up for a lack of positional awareness and decision making.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 22:56 - Mar 21 with 9540 views
Again, westberks, Chris, I'm pretty statistically fewer goals have been conceded per game Onouha has played centre half than per game Hall has played centre half. Stats aren't everything, I grant you, but it's interesting everyone's qualitative evaluation doesn't quite match the quantitative one, or at least it definitely didn't a couple of months back when I last worked it out.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 23:21 - Mar 21 with 9507 views
Sign young, English centre half for a pittance with no hype or publicity. Player massively outperforms expectations, ups resale value by several hundred percent. Displays ability to not only match the physicality of the Championship but also bring a little bit of quality on the ball. In other words, the best of all worlds.
QPR fan reaction - pick fault.
This post has been edited by an administrator
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 23:36 - Mar 21 with 9484 views
Chery, Polter, Washington and Luongo have also been positive additions within budget. Hopefully this summer will see the last of the overpaid and underachieving players leave the club.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 23:40 - Mar 21 with 9475 views
Stronger at the back without Hall on 23:21 - Mar 21 by Northernr
Sign young, English centre half for a pittance with no hype or publicity. Player massively outperforms expectations, ups resale value by several hundred percent. Displays ability to not only match the physicality of the Championship but also bring a little bit of quality on the ball. In other words, the best of all worlds.
QPR fan reaction - pick fault.
This post has been edited by an administrator
Same attitude as the fella who sat behind me barracking Austin for two years, then called him a greedy bastard the first game we had without him.
For my tuppence worth, I think the lad is the first CB on the team sheet for me.
[Post edited 21 Mar 2016 23:52]
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 00:38 - Mar 22 with 9433 views
I really like the look of Grant Hall so far, I also like the look of Angella as well, although admittedly I haven't seen much of him. Both big, both have some football skills which I always like in centre backs.
But Clint Hill, what a man, we all love Clint. I only wish Shaun Derry was still here as well.
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 07:53 - Mar 22 with 9281 views
I just want him to have a clash with a striker leaving the opposition player stunned prompting the headline 'Banging Your Head Against Brick Hall'. Is that too much to ask?
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 07:57 - Mar 22 with 9276 views
I like Hall , I think he has been one of our success stories this season, reminds me a lot of when danny maddix first got in the first team around 88, I like the way he deals with the no nonsense stuff and the way he brings the ball out of play , my only gripe which he needs to work on is that he ball watches on occasions , maybe its a lack of communication with his partner that causes this but it can be worked on and improved other than that he is an old school QPR signing maybe one day we can flog him for a profit
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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Stronger at the back without Hall on 09:01 - Mar 22 with 9227 views
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