| Charlie Austin ADHD 08:49 - Aug 28 with 7334 views | StreathamRanger |
Charlie posted on twitter yesterday that he'd been diagnosed with ADHD. Said the medication he had been given has been life changing. He's just been on Radio 5 (around 8:45am for anyone who wanted to listen) talking about it.
[Post edited 28 Aug 8:50]
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 09:40 - Aug 28 with 5718 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Best of luck to him. I have quite a few friends who've been diagnosed and the medication seems to work well for them. |  |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 09:49 - Aug 28 with 5620 views | lightwaterhoop |
Best wishes Charlie. | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 09:51 - Aug 28 with 5614 views | GaryHaddock |
Absolutely Devoured Huge Dinners (2nd Spell)
Good luck Chaz. [Post edited 28 Aug 9:51]
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 with 5418 views | dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |  | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:31 - Aug 28 with 5371 views | Hooping_Mad |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 by dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |
Increased awareness leads to increased diagnosis. Is it over diagnosed, probably.
Is it real? definitely.
I wish everyone had their health, never appreciated mine till it made for the hills. | |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:32 - Aug 28 with 5357 views | StreathamRanger |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 by dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |
There certainly seems to be more of a trend towards people getting a diagnosis later in life. Having worked with plenty of children with ADHD I know that the medication can really help and I guess adults may find it helps them similarly. It's good that someone with Charlie's profile is happy to talk about it as it may help other people who are struggling. | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 11:40 - Aug 28 with 4999 views | Damo1962 |
Best of luck Chaz. | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 12:02 - Aug 28 with 4898 views | daveB |
that does explain some of his erratic behavior the last few years, fair play to him for going public and helping to raise awareness |  | | |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 13:16 - Aug 28 with 4690 views | FDC |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 by dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |
It's an interesting one. I'm also increasingly critical of the contemporary move towards pathologising everything, especially when it involves prescribing fairly serious medication, you have to be at least slightly suspicious of the profit motive at play. But then I remember listening to I think it was Josie Long talk movingly about how her ADHD diagnosis was incredibly clarifying for her, because it helped her to reconcile a life long struggle, so at the same time you have to tread carefully. |  | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 13:30 - Aug 28 with 4577 views | Boston |
Yeah, I've got ADHD, and I'm a Gemini, coupled with red hair and short in stature, I really don't know how I made it this far. | |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 13:48 - Aug 28 with 4455 views | TomS |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 by dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |
It doesn't just help the people who are diagnosed, but also those around them.
Neuro-divergency is real, all our brains are wired differently. Understanding how you think and understand the world is really important to both you and those around you, whether in work or your social life. For example, some people only think in black and white, they can't see the grey in between. Understanding how a person thinks is really important as it influences how you need to interact with them.
Similarly, if you are aware of your own condition then, in theory, you possibly can/should identify the triggers and therefore take control over how you react to a situation, overcoming your natural instinct. Whether drugs improve that awareness or not, I don't know. |  | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:06 - Aug 28 with 4361 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 by dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |
It's something I'm very curious about, but know little beyond anecdotal experiences.
On the one hand a very good friend has had his life change for the better since his diagnosis. He is know more focused at work, steadier in relationships and happier within himself.
On the other hand, I know young people who've been diagnosed and they have let thelselves be defined by it - a 'I'm ADHD, I can't help my behaviour' kind of vibe. I try to tell them that they are not ADHD, they are just someone who has been diagnosed by ADHD, and that there's a difference between the two, and that their diagnosis neither defines them or restricts them to certain behaviour.
In truth, though, I can't find out enough about it and I'm wary of offering too much advice.
I need to learn more. | |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:34 - Aug 28 with 4218 views | robith |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 10:24 - Aug 28 by dannyblue |
Happy to be educated about how wrong I am, but I'm very suspicious of all this. Every fcker under the sun has suddenly got ADHD. It's an epidemic of diagnoses. And if everyone has ADHD then isn't it just part of being human? And do we need to medicalise just being a normal human? Obviously there are extreme cases who can really do with help...but do we really need to drug the long tail of people who just say yes to a few simple questions in a 12 minute GP appointment? |
Getting a formal diagnosis is actually very difficult and time consuming, and it probably suffers from a similar fate to OCD of people using a really harmful condition as an unhelpful shorthand. I deffo suffer from some of the symptoms, but I've never bothered getting a diagnosis cos it doesn't really impact my life. On the flip I have an acquaintance who suffers severely, and during a recent medication shortage was terrified they'd lose their job cos the medication is the only way they can deliver at work to neurotypical deadlines.
But let's look at a historical precedent. Left handedness:
Did people suddenly fancy calling themselves left handed? Or did schools stop kicking the bollix off them when they wrote with their left? Food for thought.
We also have cognitive biases in our data perceptions - for eg clustering illusions - you say every fecker has it, amongst 10-16 year olds from 2000 to 2018 it increased from 1.6% of that cohort to 3.5% of said cohort (higher in the US, 11%, being cynical cos ADHD medication sales are lucrative) - interestingly, and topically, the biggest growth was in adult men seeking help, probably having suffered all their lives. Extrapolating it out there are 90k people waiting for a referral (and you talk about the questionnaire - that actually screens between 40-90% of people out - big regional differences) and 2.6m people with it overall - sub 4% of the population.
I appreciate you say you're seeking education, but it does feel a bit like your tone is "chinny reckon". So I'd say it's a bit unfair to judge a condition and its effect based on being anecdotally annoyed |  | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:37 - Aug 28 with 4198 views | robith |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:06 - Aug 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
It's something I'm very curious about, but know little beyond anecdotal experiences.
On the one hand a very good friend has had his life change for the better since his diagnosis. He is know more focused at work, steadier in relationships and happier within himself.
On the other hand, I know young people who've been diagnosed and they have let thelselves be defined by it - a 'I'm ADHD, I can't help my behaviour' kind of vibe. I try to tell them that they are not ADHD, they are just someone who has been diagnosed by ADHD, and that there's a difference between the two, and that their diagnosis neither defines them or restricts them to certain behaviour.
In truth, though, I can't find out enough about it and I'm wary of offering too much advice.
I need to learn more. |
Same as it ever was - 27 years ago my brother was forever citing his dyslexia for every failed chore going | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:55 - Aug 28 with 4102 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:37 - Aug 28 by robith |
Same as it ever was - 27 years ago my brother was forever citing his dyslexia for every failed chore going |
What I'm worried about with these young people is not that they're citing ADHD as a reason for not being able to do something well, because that's not my experience at least, but that they actually believe that it is a condition that can't be helped in any way by education and/or medication. | |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 15:03 - Aug 28 with 4048 views | Boston |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:55 - Aug 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
What I'm worried about with these young people is not that they're citing ADHD as a reason for not being able to do something well, because that's not my experience at least, but that they actually believe that it is a condition that can't be helped in any way by education and/or medication. |
ADHD is a very common trait among business owners at every level.There is medical literature on this.
Anyway, I've got to run, can't focus on this thread anymore. [Post edited 28 Aug 15:04]
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 15:12 - Aug 28 with 3968 views | Beckenhamhoop |
My daughter in law has to assess people with mental health and specifically ADHD issues. Diagnoses are going through the roof. The drugs for ADHD also have a black market value and some people are gaming the system by saying the right thing in order to get diagnosed, get the drugs issued which they then sell. | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 15:19 - Aug 28 with 3944 views | dannyblue |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:34 - Aug 28 by robith |
Getting a formal diagnosis is actually very difficult and time consuming, and it probably suffers from a similar fate to OCD of people using a really harmful condition as an unhelpful shorthand. I deffo suffer from some of the symptoms, but I've never bothered getting a diagnosis cos it doesn't really impact my life. On the flip I have an acquaintance who suffers severely, and during a recent medication shortage was terrified they'd lose their job cos the medication is the only way they can deliver at work to neurotypical deadlines.
But let's look at a historical precedent. Left handedness:
Did people suddenly fancy calling themselves left handed? Or did schools stop kicking the bollix off them when they wrote with their left? Food for thought.
We also have cognitive biases in our data perceptions - for eg clustering illusions - you say every fecker has it, amongst 10-16 year olds from 2000 to 2018 it increased from 1.6% of that cohort to 3.5% of said cohort (higher in the US, 11%, being cynical cos ADHD medication sales are lucrative) - interestingly, and topically, the biggest growth was in adult men seeking help, probably having suffered all their lives. Extrapolating it out there are 90k people waiting for a referral (and you talk about the questionnaire - that actually screens between 40-90% of people out - big regional differences) and 2.6m people with it overall - sub 4% of the population.
I appreciate you say you're seeking education, but it does feel a bit like your tone is "chinny reckon". So I'd say it's a bit unfair to judge a condition and its effect based on being anecdotally annoyed |
Thanks Robith, I appreciate it, especially the prevalence and screening data - I wonder if and how things have increased since 2018. I certainly agree that awareness and removal of stigma are positive, and certainly hope some people are benefiting from help they would otherwise never have thought to seek.
I have a couple points to make.
First, let me back up a bit. Often we cluster a group of symptoms together and give them a label which you'll find described in the DSM. Often we don't understand the mechanisms which are causing these symptoms, or their genetics. Often we don't know that those groups of symptoms are even related, or caused by the same things in different people. We've only recognised that the symptoms sometimes coexist. Yet as soon as we have a label for it, individuals think they have an answer. They no longer try to understand symptoms abcdefg, they just say I've got ADHD. The *description* of a common set of co-existing symptoms (which in my understanding is all ADHD is) is used as an *explanation*, when it's no such thing. ADHD could be entirely man-made with no unifying biological underpinnings (a cognitive bias - apophenia - overfitting a pattern onto noisy data). Or there might be many different causes of the symptoms we describe as ADHD (many ADHDs). Or, of course, we may one day discover some root cause that explains all ADHD diagnoses. But we don't know this now.
Second, all this gets worse when we have some kind of drug which is approved for use with the man-made label we have defined (which may or may not correlate to some biological or environmental cause). It's wonderful that left-handed people can be left-handed now...but I don't think the example is that illustrative here, because nobody is giving left-handed people a life-long prescription. My concern is people who are within the normal range of human experience being medicalised. I'll confess to having used modafinil recreationally, which is sometimes prescribed for ADHD. It's really useful, but I've noticed some mood-altering negative effects. Again this is anecdotal...but I worry about huge swathes of the population relying on really quite strong drugs that maybe have longer term side effects. Drugs aren't always the answer. If there is an increase in ADHD diagnoses, that might be explained by more people coming forward, but it might also be explained by more people suffering those symptoms...and rather than just drugging those symptoms we might also benefit from investigating other contributing factors. For example, I am certain that having a smart phone and using social media has increased my ADHD score when I go through the symptom checklist. If I thought I had ADHD I'd try reducing smartphone use significantly before I went for a drug. I wouldn't be at all surprised if nutrition, and sugar, and glucose spikes didn't have a role to play. There are likely to be other contributing factors too. Always better to try and cure the disease instead of just treating the symptoms.
I recognise and cherish neurodiversity. I don't doubt that many people struggle with many of the symptoms described as part of ADHD. I'm delighted if their life can be improved by drugs or other approaches. But the increased noise about ADHD seems a bit trendy to me, for many a bit ill thought out, giving many (the long tail) a bit of convenient shorthand with which to describe and maybe excuse themselves from actually working on their own struggles. We want a pill because it seems like an easy answer. Sometimes it's a wonderful life-changing boon. Often it is no answer at all. | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 15:19 - Aug 28 with 3942 views | Juzzie |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:06 - Aug 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
It's something I'm very curious about, but know little beyond anecdotal experiences.
On the one hand a very good friend has had his life change for the better since his diagnosis. He is know more focused at work, steadier in relationships and happier within himself.
On the other hand, I know young people who've been diagnosed and they have let thelselves be defined by it - a 'I'm ADHD, I can't help my behaviour' kind of vibe. I try to tell them that they are not ADHD, they are just someone who has been diagnosed by ADHD, and that there's a difference between the two, and that their diagnosis neither defines them or restricts them to certain behaviour.
In truth, though, I can't find out enough about it and I'm wary of offering too much advice.
I need to learn more. |
Next door neighbour's 16 year old son is like this. He's a normal 16 year old (known him since he was 13 when we moved in) but seems like both he, and his mum & dad (separated) use it to define him. He & his dad smoke pot in the garden which then comes into our house and I have two young kids so have asked them not to. They still do.
They all say 'it helps' when it has not been proven medically to do so and it is still illegal. I think it's just an excuse to 'chilllll maaaaaan' which is all very well until smoke bellows into my house with my kids there.
I'm trying very hard to be mindful of a supposedly diagnosed (I only have their word) condition but it cannot be used to the detriment of everything else. |  | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 15:56 - Aug 28 with 3746 views | Lblock |
I started listening to the interview and reading the interview but my mind wandered away from it after 2 minutes……… |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 15:59 - Aug 28 with 3726 views | numptydumpty |
Have known quite a few people with this diagnosis, and there is like all these things a sliding scale.
It can make some people very erratic but can understand why some people.are a bit dubious of the diagnosis.
But for those who have it at a severe level, a lifetime of causing troubles for themselves by erratic reactions and no control over restless behaviours and bouts of anger, there are solutions for some and it is always there but can be quelled most definitely.
Like others have said it can help the loved ones also as more often than not people can be shunned or discriminated against over how untreated ADHD can cause troubling reactions and behaviours.
I always remember Austins reaction to Southampton game with his goal being denied over something. At the time I thought it was extreme, but yes can see how Charlie has been given this diagnosis.
Hope it helps him in his future life.
It's clearly not impeded a very decent football playing career that he has managed to achieve.
Good luck to him
And if I did hashtags,
#qpr_legend [Post edited 28 Aug 16:00]
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 18:16 - Aug 28 with 3447 views | BrizR |
I think there's two separate trends. There's definitely a group for whom the point seems to be to define themselves by their diagnosis and then use it as a shield for accountability. They're very vocal online, though undoubtedly they also exist in the real world. I don't think they're really new, but the language of mental health and therapy is just the trendy way to make excuses for themselves. Some of them will grow up and some of them won't.
On the other hand there's a much broader trend of people getting diagnosed later in life because of better awareness. The thing with ADHD is that the understanding of what it is has changed over time (or put another way - been better understood). I was in school when it started becoming a more common diagnosis but it was strongly associated with kids (and almost exclusively boys) who acted out a lot, couldn't sit still, class clown types who needed calming down and generally were failing academically because of it. If you didn't fit that profile it wasn't thought about. Women got it even worse because girls are much more strongly socialised not to be disruptive. If you're now in your 30s and 40s (or even older) and seriously thinking about it for the first time, it's likely that you'll look back at your school years and think wow, how did nobody notice? And the answer is you weren't ADHD in a particular way.
The problem for me, and I suspect a lot of similar adults, is that succeeding at school and succeeding in real life aren't the same thing. I'm very good at exams; the pressure engages my brain. I'm rubbish at consistently delivering work over a period of time. If you're "bright but lazy," as I was often described, you can cruise through all the way to degree level as long as you pick subjects correctly. Work's a different question because most employers expect you to deliver day in, day out. Sometimes you're lucky and the job suits how your brain works, or the work isn't very hard and you can deliver what you need to with short bursts of maximum effort accompanied by a lot of non-committal looking busy, but if you want to go anywhere in a lot of careers you need to be able to manage consistent output, even though your brain is insistent that it wants to do anything but work on this boring thing that doesn't need to be done immediately. That's where the diagnosis - and the drugs - kick in, because what they basically give you is the same tools that non-ADHD people have in terms of executive function.
Covid accelerated the rates of people seeking diagnosis a lot for one obvious reason - a lot of people who were in office jobs were suddenly working from home. A big part of coping with ADHD, knowingly or not, is creating structure. If that structure gets upended, particularly in the way it was in covid where the outcome was you spending a lot more time at home where all the fun stuff is that your brain wants to focus on instead of work, then it becomes a lot more difficult.
Elsewhere in the thread someone talked about pathologising symptoms and the spectrum we're all on - at what point are we just taking collections of ordinary traits and turning them into diagnoses and medicating them? To an extent I agree with that and I do think we ought to be cautious. That said there is a clear distinction in my mind between regular behaviours - most people find work a bit tiring and boring and would prefer not to do their job if they didn't have to - and neurodivergence. I can't remember the exact definition of the latter but it's something like when the behaviour is so difficult to manage that it seriously impacts your ability to engage in ordinary tasks; in the case of ADHD, that's mostly around executive functioning and making choices about doing something. The other big point of difference is that it often impacts things you DO want to do as much as things you don't. Think about making decisions with ADHD as being like driving a car; we both know that we need to turn left, but you have power steering and I don't. That's the gap the medication (and/or therapy) is meant to bridge. | | | |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 18:31 - Aug 28 with 3370 views | hoops_legend |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 09:51 - Aug 28 by GaryHaddock |
Absolutely Devoured Huge Dinners (2nd Spell)
Good luck Chaz. [Post edited 28 Aug 9:51]
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Bizarre post to a club legend and especially on a topic like this. I think he was one of our best strikers ever in first stint and in his second, despite clearly lacking fitness, still had real class |  |
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| Charlie Austin ADHD on 19:20 - Aug 28 with 3205 views | larsricchi |
| Charlie Austin ADHD on 14:55 - Aug 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
What I'm worried about with these young people is not that they're citing ADHD as a reason for not being able to do something well, because that's not my experience at least, but that they actually believe that it is a condition that can't be helped in any way by education and/or medication. |
My son was diagnosed two years ago. He desperately wanted help via diagnosis and medication so that his life would NOT be defined by it. The transformation once he got his meds dialed in (which didn’t take too long) was incredible. Ended up graduating with honors and started university this week.
I will admit I was hesitant to have him seen for it. I hated myself for the delay once I saw the result.
Our example is anecdotal … and it is true. |  | | |
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