| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! 17:17 - Dec 11 with 6389 views | sw02sea |
I’ve never been so bored with watching The Swans !
MARTIN OUT!!!!!! |  | | |  |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 00:17 - Dec 12 with 1186 views | Fireboy2 |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 23:51 - Dec 11 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
I firmly believe he would take us down if he were to have us play his way for the entirety of the season.
This way of playing would not yield enough points to survive, even during this season of colossal point deductions.
We'll continue to see what we have experienced up until now. Horrific performances through these inept tactics, with occasional wins sprinkled in during games where we actually try to mix things up (Bristol away is a good example). |
Us 🤣🤣🤣 |  | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:45 - Dec 12 with 1144 views | dobjack2 |
Long term success is not about instant results. If we had somehow managed to get promoted under Cooper we would be looking to challenge Derby's record in the premier division.
This is a season in transition. It's frustrating but that's what it is. We blew the parachute money paying ayew and developing youngsters for Liverpool and Chelsea to sell for big bucks. Just in case anyone has forgotten the play off final against Brentford was embarrassing.
Martin is a reset. The style of football he wants to play asks a lot of players. It's clear that the central defenders we currently have don't have the pace or ball playing skills to succeed on a regular basis. Our midfield does not move the ball quickly enough or progressively enough and there are clearly concerns behind the scenes about most of our strikers. Individual errors by defenders and keeper are costing us avoidable goals.
However, when it clicks we can be devastating. The problem is that we don't click often enough. I believe that the next two windows and how we wheel and deal in them will have a big bearing on whether Martin and his ideas are a success. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:56 - Dec 12 with 1126 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:45 - Dec 12 by dobjack2 |
Long term success is not about instant results. If we had somehow managed to get promoted under Cooper we would be looking to challenge Derby's record in the premier division.
This is a season in transition. It's frustrating but that's what it is. We blew the parachute money paying ayew and developing youngsters for Liverpool and Chelsea to sell for big bucks. Just in case anyone has forgotten the play off final against Brentford was embarrassing.
Martin is a reset. The style of football he wants to play asks a lot of players. It's clear that the central defenders we currently have don't have the pace or ball playing skills to succeed on a regular basis. Our midfield does not move the ball quickly enough or progressively enough and there are clearly concerns behind the scenes about most of our strikers. Individual errors by defenders and keeper are costing us avoidable goals.
However, when it clicks we can be devastating. The problem is that we don't click often enough. I believe that the next two windows and how we wheel and deal in them will have a big bearing on whether Martin and his ideas are a success. |
Long term results isn't about continuing to approach things tactically naiive either. In order to reach long time goals you have to reach short term goals, that is results and performances along the way.
Brendan had a long term plan, Martinez had a long term plan, everyone has a long term plan. It doesn't mean you write off whole seasons. Its a ludicrous thing that has seemed to have been created this year by fans not willing to admit we aren't good.
If we don't have the players in defence to play this way then let's adapt it and slowly progress as we get the players in to be able to do it. It is madness to continue to play in a way that we know our players can't play and are going to be replaced.
This is what people have been saying since week 1 and nothing has happened to suggest that still isn't the case today. |  |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:58 - Dec 12 with 1135 views | jasper_T |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:45 - Dec 12 by dobjack2 |
Long term success is not about instant results. If we had somehow managed to get promoted under Cooper we would be looking to challenge Derby's record in the premier division.
This is a season in transition. It's frustrating but that's what it is. We blew the parachute money paying ayew and developing youngsters for Liverpool and Chelsea to sell for big bucks. Just in case anyone has forgotten the play off final against Brentford was embarrassing.
Martin is a reset. The style of football he wants to play asks a lot of players. It's clear that the central defenders we currently have don't have the pace or ball playing skills to succeed on a regular basis. Our midfield does not move the ball quickly enough or progressively enough and there are clearly concerns behind the scenes about most of our strikers. Individual errors by defenders and keeper are costing us avoidable goals.
However, when it clicks we can be devastating. The problem is that we don't click often enough. I believe that the next two windows and how we wheel and deal in them will have a big bearing on whether Martin and his ideas are a success. |
The question is whether his specific brand of football is capable of "clicking" consistently. From what we've seen so far it appears very easy to nullify, and expose, regardless of the quality of player. If it requires centre halves who can play equally well in midfield and at full back then it's essentially a non-starter for all but the strongest teams in the world who can afford those special talents. If PL-quality technicians like Piroe and Ntcham aren't gifted enough for it then who do we think it arriving in January to make things click with regularity? Wingbacks expected to be the furthest men forward and yet still contribute defensively are even more a fantasy. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 02:42 - Dec 12 with 1117 views | dobjack2 |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:58 - Dec 12 by jasper_T |
The question is whether his specific brand of football is capable of "clicking" consistently. From what we've seen so far it appears very easy to nullify, and expose, regardless of the quality of player. If it requires centre halves who can play equally well in midfield and at full back then it's essentially a non-starter for all but the strongest teams in the world who can afford those special talents. If PL-quality technicians like Piroe and Ntcham aren't gifted enough for it then who do we think it arriving in January to make things click with regularity? Wingbacks expected to be the furthest men forward and yet still contribute defensively are even more a fantasy. |
I'll give Martin time but he is after very specific skill sets for the central defenders.
Southgate uses Kyle Walker as an outside central defender in a 3 man set up for his pace with Maguire comfortable in bringing the ball out.
There lies the issue at our level: can we get away with playing full backs as outside central defenders if we can get hold of a centre half who can dominate in the air and bring the ball into midfield? I believe that is the glue the defence needs and the player Martin needs to make this system work. If we can't get that player then I suspect that we will always be suspect at the back and vulnerable to quick counters.
If that man can be found then the overly defensive midfield balance can also change. In this system the wing backs are only defenders if the opposition pushes them back.
The tactics Martin wants to use are challenging for players. My concern, which you appear to share is that the player we need is outside our price range. Time will tell. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 06:17 - Dec 12 with 1084 views | felixstowe_jack |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 02:42 - Dec 12 by dobjack2 |
I'll give Martin time but he is after very specific skill sets for the central defenders.
Southgate uses Kyle Walker as an outside central defender in a 3 man set up for his pace with Maguire comfortable in bringing the ball out.
There lies the issue at our level: can we get away with playing full backs as outside central defenders if we can get hold of a centre half who can dominate in the air and bring the ball into midfield? I believe that is the glue the defence needs and the player Martin needs to make this system work. If we can't get that player then I suspect that we will always be suspect at the back and vulnerable to quick counters.
If that man can be found then the overly defensive midfield balance can also change. In this system the wing backs are only defenders if the opposition pushes them back.
The tactics Martin wants to use are challenging for players. My concern, which you appear to share is that the player we need is outside our price range. Time will tell. |
We just need to play our central defenders as central defenders not full backs. Martin seems to be unable to grasp this simple basic rule of football.
He is either two inept or too stubborn to realise this fact. Until we get our defence sorted out we will continue to slide down the table. | |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 10:18 - Dec 12 with 1029 views | dobjack2 |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 06:17 - Dec 12 by felixstowe_jack |
We just need to play our central defenders as central defenders not full backs. Martin seems to be unable to grasp this simple basic rule of football.
He is either two inept or too stubborn to realise this fact. Until we get our defence sorted out we will continue to slide down the table. |
You want to play 4 at the back, Martin doesn't. Depends whether he can get the defender or defenders he needs in the next window. If he doesn't he may be forced to change formation. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 10:39 - Dec 12 with 1016 views | Catullus |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 01:58 - Dec 12 by jasper_T |
The question is whether his specific brand of football is capable of "clicking" consistently. From what we've seen so far it appears very easy to nullify, and expose, regardless of the quality of player. If it requires centre halves who can play equally well in midfield and at full back then it's essentially a non-starter for all but the strongest teams in the world who can afford those special talents. If PL-quality technicians like Piroe and Ntcham aren't gifted enough for it then who do we think it arriving in January to make things click with regularity? Wingbacks expected to be the furthest men forward and yet still contribute defensively are even more a fantasy. |
Nail hit again Jasper. We might as well get proper wingers as push the WB's so high up they can't possibly get back to defend.
For me, it's not about sacking Martin but more about Martin accepting the make up of his squad and doing the best he can with it.
I supported him from the off, I wanted him to succeed but if he keeps on doing the same thing time and again with the same results then he's barmy. January might prove interesting. We need some pace, whoever we bring in. | |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 10:44 - Dec 12 with 1014 views | dobjack2 |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 10:39 - Dec 12 by Catullus |
Nail hit again Jasper. We might as well get proper wingers as push the WB's so high up they can't possibly get back to defend.
For me, it's not about sacking Martin but more about Martin accepting the make up of his squad and doing the best he can with it.
I supported him from the off, I wanted him to succeed but if he keeps on doing the same thing time and again with the same results then he's barmy. January might prove interesting. We need some pace, whoever we bring in. |
Agree - we lack pace and don't have the right skill sets in defence. You can coach players to think but you can't coach pace.
He knows our weaknesses and clued up opposing managers do as well. The next window will shape this season and whether he can realistically keep playing the way he would like us to. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 11:40 - Dec 12 with 989 views | GeoffThom |
I for one at present will give him the time needed to really put in his plan .
He needs the January window plus the summer pre season and window .
But if we're not top 6 by this time next year he goes .
My only worry is the club itself is slowly imploding as the 18s and 23s seem absolutely rubbish now that worries me more as its our future |  | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 11:59 - Dec 12 with 977 views | Thornburyswan |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 21:52 - Dec 11 by BillyChong |
Apparently Silverstein’s over soon, not sure how much he knows about football though |
He arrived late Thursday & was sat in the Director’s box yesterday. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 12:45 - Dec 12 with 960 views | controversial_jack |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 18:36 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
Everyone needs to get used to the fact, he isn’t going anywhere. |
The crowds will though! | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 12:51 - Dec 12 with 946 views | max936 |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 18:55 - Dec 11 by KeithHaynes |
I know more and more are getting annoyed, but it is a fact, we have to get used to It as Corny said. |
People won't want to get used to and will go and do somin else come matchday, there's only so much people will tolerate before enough is enough. |  |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 13:56 - Dec 12 with 920 views | jasper_T |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 11:40 - Dec 12 by GeoffThom |
I for one at present will give him the time needed to really put in his plan .
He needs the January window plus the summer pre season and window .
But if we're not top 6 by this time next year he goes .
My only worry is the club itself is slowly imploding as the 18s and 23s seem absolutely rubbish now that worries me more as its our future |
The u23s have struggled to play Martin's system as well. We've had a left back playing middle centre half, goalkeeper distribution errors leading directly to goals, little to no chances created in games etc. when trying to mirror how the first team plays.
We don't have a good u23s squad at the moment but there's a group of u18s aged players who have real potential, so I'm not too worried about the future. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 13:57 - Dec 12 with 917 views | KeithHaynes |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 13:56 - Dec 12 by jasper_T |
The u23s have struggled to play Martin's system as well. We've had a left back playing middle centre half, goalkeeper distribution errors leading directly to goals, little to no chances created in games etc. when trying to mirror how the first team plays.
We don't have a good u23s squad at the moment but there's a group of u18s aged players who have real potential, so I'm not too worried about the future. |
How many local / South Wales based players in the u18 ‘s Jasper ? |  |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 14:14 - Dec 12 with 900 views | Catullus |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 12:51 - Dec 12 by max936 |
People won't want to get used to and will go and do somin else come matchday, there's only so much people will tolerate before enough is enough. |
I alluded to that, Max, when I mentioned season ticket sales. What if people don't renew? What if they don't and they start staying away on matchday? The financial implications of guaranteeing Martin time, no matter what, could be bad.
If the narrative that Keith has suggested is right then the owners rely on the vast majority of fans buying into it and I'm not at all certain they will. Many more days like yesterday and the Swansea.com/Liberty could become a very uncomfortable place. | |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 14:29 - Dec 12 with 895 views | jasper_T |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 13:57 - Dec 12 by KeithHaynes |
How many local / South Wales based players in the u18 ‘s Jasper ? |
The busload from London has diluted things a bit, but recruitment was in large part based on building a team around the three best South Wales talents we have in that age group. We've got a balanced midfield in Cotterill, Congreve and Lloyd, and there are some goalkeepers coming through (plus Wales u18s Ben Hughes joined), but we needed a back four and some forwards to play around them as we only had bits and pieces and maybes internally (Kian Jenkins had a long term injury, Kai Ludvigsen probably too small to play centre half at senior level). Maybe Geoff Bony counts as local, they've been here long enough.
We've been trialling a few South Wales players in the age groups recently, think one signed not too long ago (another Cooper, centre half). There's some decent players in the u16s who have already played u18s football this season, and last. | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 15:32 - Dec 12 with 850 views | onehunglow |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 14:14 - Dec 12 by Catullus |
I alluded to that, Max, when I mentioned season ticket sales. What if people don't renew? What if they don't and they start staying away on matchday? The financial implications of guaranteeing Martin time, no matter what, could be bad.
If the narrative that Keith has suggested is right then the owners rely on the vast majority of fans buying into it and I'm not at all certain they will. Many more days like yesterday and the Swansea.com/Liberty could become a very uncomfortable place. |
Which would be the case had any fans he subjected to what we have now.
Every fan is being insulted made worse by Martins relentless self promoting drivel .
He is pounding a narrative of possession football to impress bigger clubs. When it fails,he will blame lack of support and or funds . He knows we do not and cannot play as he dreams . It’s why he says we were …fantastic…at Boro…
Fantastic . Think on that .
He will still have loved the city and Gower though | |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:46 - Dec 12 with 818 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
The future of Mr Martin lies in the remit of the Head Of Football Mr Allen. Mr Allen will be meeting Mr Winter and Mr Silverstein this week.
Mr Martin will need to get some decent results soon. The solutions seem fairly straight forward. The defensive set up does not work against quality teams. You rarely saw Ashley Williams out stripped on the wing by a flier under Brendan Rodgers. BR had a stronger proven philosophy than Martin.
Mr Silverstein will be asking Mr Allen for an explanation why Cabango is out of position so often. Mr Allen will ask Mr Martin. Cabango is not a sprinter no more than £90m Harry McGuire is. If Mr Martin says Cabanago is learning a new position Mr Allen should get alarmed and fully audit Martin's stance. Mr Cabango is not learning to run 110m in 11.3 seconds. Is that what he means?.
Cabango is a real club asset and is a centre back and needs to protect the centre. Allen will have to be careful and tough. I am happy to see Cabango doing long balls and bulldozing don the middle. I do not want to see him in a foot race on the wing. The club has a number of young guns under long contracts . Benda, Cabango, Garrick, Latibeaudiere, Cullen, Cooper x2. If Martins sends them out of the club and not use them then there will be a philosophical impasse.
Giving contracts to honest limited pros like Hamer, Bennett. Manning, Naughton Smith while binning youthful talent under long contracts is not the way forward Naughton does have leadership qualities. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:56 - Dec 12 with 814 views | magicdaps10 |
Said it before and I will say it again, we need to think about playing 4-5-1. |  |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:57 - Dec 12 with 814 views | Chief |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:46 - Dec 12 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The future of Mr Martin lies in the remit of the Head Of Football Mr Allen. Mr Allen will be meeting Mr Winter and Mr Silverstein this week.
Mr Martin will need to get some decent results soon. The solutions seem fairly straight forward. The defensive set up does not work against quality teams. You rarely saw Ashley Williams out stripped on the wing by a flier under Brendan Rodgers. BR had a stronger proven philosophy than Martin.
Mr Silverstein will be asking Mr Allen for an explanation why Cabango is out of position so often. Mr Allen will ask Mr Martin. Cabango is not a sprinter no more than £90m Harry McGuire is. If Mr Martin says Cabanago is learning a new position Mr Allen should get alarmed and fully audit Martin's stance. Mr Cabango is not learning to run 110m in 11.3 seconds. Is that what he means?.
Cabango is a real club asset and is a centre back and needs to protect the centre. Allen will have to be careful and tough. I am happy to see Cabango doing long balls and bulldozing don the middle. I do not want to see him in a foot race on the wing. The club has a number of young guns under long contracts . Benda, Cabango, Garrick, Latibeaudiere, Cullen, Cooper x2. If Martins sends them out of the club and not use them then there will be a philosophical impasse.
Giving contracts to honest limited pros like Hamer, Bennett. Manning, Naughton Smith while binning youthful talent under long contracts is not the way forward Naughton does have leadership qualities. |
"Mr Silverstein will be asking Mr Allen for an explanation why Cabango is out of position so often."
Will he? How do you know that?
Mr Martin owes Mr Silverstein zero explanation on on field matters. |  |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 18:24 - Dec 12 with 790 views | BillyChong |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:57 - Dec 12 by Chief |
"Mr Silverstein will be asking Mr Allen for an explanation why Cabango is out of position so often."
Will he? How do you know that?
Mr Martin owes Mr Silverstein zero explanation on on field matters. |
Mr Martin will be laughing into his vegan curry if Mr Silverstein tries to advise him on football | | | |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 18:25 - Dec 12 with 785 views | onehunglow |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:56 - Dec 12 by magicdaps10 |
Said it before and I will say it again, we need to think about playing 4-5-1. |
seem sensible so no chance.
Nobody could ever justify playing who we do as we do as defenders | |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 19:22 - Dec 12 with 758 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:56 - Dec 12 by magicdaps10 |
Said it before and I will say it again, we need to think about playing 4-5-1. |
Patience | |
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| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 20:04 - Dec 12 with 726 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| I’ve had a guts full of Martinball !!! on 17:57 - Dec 12 by Chief |
"Mr Silverstein will be asking Mr Allen for an explanation why Cabango is out of position so often."
Will he? How do you know that?
Mr Martin owes Mr Silverstein zero explanation on on field matters. |
You live in a very strange world. Mr Silverstein is no fool.
Please read my posts properly and do not re phrase them. Mr Silverstein has watched a 1-4 drubbling and will be asking Mr Allen for an explanation. Mr Allen will want an explanation from Martin about players being out of their 'comfort zone' to an extent that other teams benefit.
Cabango is out of his 'comfort zone' for sure but will never be able to catch Brennan in a foot race not now and not in the foreseeable future. Cooper S would have targeted Swansea's lumbering wing men for sure to get them 1 on 1. .
Mr Allen is Head of Football and can 'audit' Mr Martins's philosophy. How exactly does have slow players like Bennett and Cabango on the wings help the team?. Allen is in the Dr Parnassus position and a has a right for an explanation.
In my world owners who invest always need an explanation. Why not? You fail to discriminate. Silverstein can even, if minded, criticise the team with care.
What he cannot do is recommend different specific tactics or players with out consultation and enter the changing room or give players instructions. This is the remit of Martin and Allen. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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