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We got asked to leave the Stowmarket spoons on Friday night for mixing drinks.We got the train back after the game and headed to one of the few pubs still open at 10.45 on a Friday night. Our first mistake was thinking that it would be ok to have my grandchildren sitting outside in the garden with me.I ordered 3 pints of Guinness,which they were in the process of pouring when they spotted the kids in our party. “We can’t serve any of your group until the children have gone” said the stroppy manageress.So the kids are sent to sit on the wall on the opposite side of the street.”No,we still can’t serve you until the kids are gone.” This was in a pub with 8 people in it.
So my daughter comes out and picks them all up in the car and we can finally have our beers.Nothing happens for a couple of hours and we’re enjoying a few jars and talking about the game,until about 12.45 my brother goes up for the last beers.He also orders a couple of shots of port and tells the barman that Guinness is sometimes better with a port poured in it.The youngster behind the bar tells him that they can’t put the port into the drink themselves,but still sells the drinks that he ordered. He returns to our table with the beers and 2 port glasses and proceeds to pour his into his Guinness.I leave mine alone as I don’t want to ruin a good pint. Within a minute miss stroppy comes back with another manager and the 18 year old bouncer and tells us that they’re taking our drinks away from us as we’ve been mixing them.She proceeds to take my son’s vodka and coke,but my brother and me refuse to hand over our glasses until we’d drunk them. That is the fastest pint of Guinness I’ve ever drunk and the port went down well too.All this in a pub with 6 people still left in it,which included the 3 of us.All the time being surrounded by the spoons mafia. She then accuses my brother of being rude because he won’t give up his glass until he’d finished his drink,and he told her that he’d finish it quicker than she could take it.
I think it was all an excuse to get us out as they wanted to close up,and I doubt that they would’ve tried the same tactics in a busier pub earlier in the evening.No harm was done,apart from losing my son’s drink but it all felt a bit ott to us.
It won’t put me off going to a Wetherspoons,but I will certainly think twice about using my local one in future.
Sounds like you had a bad one mate. Has happened to me before aswell few years back.
Was in the Spoons next to Holborn station with a few work colleagues. I went up to get a drink and the young fella behind the bar said it couldn't serve me or the fellas I was with because we were too drunk. Would be fair but I had had 1 drink. I'm a lightweight but not that light.
Apparently one the the colleagues I was with had been having a joke with one of the barmaids. Obviously no one knew the girl was the other fellas boyfriend and he got jealous.
Called the manager but apparently the manger has to go with what his staff has said even though he knows we were all sober. Don't even know how true that is.
Spoons staff are very good in the main. But now and again you get these instances unfortunately. Sorry to hear the aggravation yiu had mate
Sounds like you had a bad one mate. Has happened to me before aswell few years back.
Was in the Spoons next to Holborn station with a few work colleagues. I went up to get a drink and the young fella behind the bar said it couldn't serve me or the fellas I was with because we were too drunk. Would be fair but I had had 1 drink. I'm a lightweight but not that light.
Apparently one the the colleagues I was with had been having a joke with one of the barmaids. Obviously no one knew the girl was the other fellas boyfriend and he got jealous.
Called the manager but apparently the manger has to go with what his staff has said even though he knows we were all sober. Don't even know how true that is.
Spoons staff are very good in the main. But now and again you get these instances unfortunately. Sorry to hear the aggravation yiu had mate
After 50 years of pub going I’ve realised that you can never win an argument with bar staff even if you’re 100% in the right,and it didn’t affect us too much as it was almost closing time anyway.But there were no signs up about mixing drinks and the barman knew what he was planning to do so he could’ve warned him about it.But these things happen and nobody was hurt.
And here's the issue. It's not tit for tat. There is nuance and to believe that unequivocally one side is 'right' is, in itself, a mistake.
If you were more widely read you would see that the issues in the Middle East are complex and complicated; to suggest it is 'imperialism' and 'western influence' is shallow. These are issues which have developed, grown and poisoned cultures for centuries. The current conflict is the latest episode of an ongoing story.
You can't understand why, when other countries commit acts which are as bad, they are not vilified in the same way that Israel is. Here's another example which I would ask you to consider. The war in Yemen is estimated by the United Nations to have cost 375k+ lives from 2014. This is several times more than the casualties in the entire history of the Arab–Israeli conflict. One of the main protagonists in that war, Saudi Arabia, is the world’s largest purchaser of British arms – but you will never see hundreds of thousands of people marching through British towns and cities in protest.
Why?
In 2022 When Russia invaded Ukraine there was no record significant spike in hate crimes against Russian people or property in Britain in 2022, just as there wasn't one when Russia invaded Crimea in 2014. In May 2021 there was a trebling of hate crime against Jews in London after conflict between Israel and Gaza. When time Israel and Hamas fought a war in the summer of 2014, anti-Jewish hate crimes doubled nationally. Since October 7, there has been a fivefold increase in hate crimes against Jews in some parts of the UK.
You also seem to be casting doubt over what happened on October 7th. To use your definition of public record - video from others which is shared on Social Media - there is no doubt that torture and sexual assault took place. But this isn't, as I said before, about tit for tat. There have been atrocities before then, since then, and there will be in the future.
Similarly, you seem to be using the word genocide in your posts. It is a loaded term; since it has an inherent moral judgement which privileges the morality of a victim over a perpetrator. It also requires a number of criteria to be met over a period of time. The activity of the Ottoman empire towards the Kurds who I mentioned earlier could be perceived as genocide. Starting an offensive against a nation state, and when found to be losing that fight, isn't a genocide.
However, all this will be lost on you. You said: "I don't care if the UK designates it as terrorist athats irrelevant as I personally would say that the UK government and the ruling capitalist class that run it are terrorists and are easiky the most violent people that have walked the earth and I think the majority of the world would agree with me. Some of the greatest most courageous people have been defined terrorist by our ruling class."
If you believe Hamas are justified in their actions, you won't be swayed. They are not supported by the Palestinian people; prior to October 7, the majority of Palestinians supported a two state solution and over half did not trust Hamas. The Hamas president's term ended in 2009 but he has refused to hold elections where the public might be able to vote.
I don't think I'll likely respond again - as I said I'd be surprised if you're swayed by anything I've written. If however it makes you at least pause before hammering back the same tropes which are polluting the discourse, then it might help a little.
Hey E17
I'm not entirely sure you're being sincere in your writings here. I wanna pick you up on some basic logical fallacies you're (seemingly deliberately) making.
I wanna start by discussing the continued attempts you're making to talk about other violent episodes throughout the world. I'm not sure why you';re doing this besides the implication that my condemnation and outrage at the genocide of Gaza is in some way prejudiced.
I have not mentioned any other war or violent episode in Western Asia so I'm not sure why you are so determined to discuss this. I don't know enough about the UK selling weapons to kill Yemen but I can assure you the left (the fearsome all powerful 'woke brigade") do protest this (I haven't personally though). It's ironic as the free speech guys complain about that as well?apperenty its "not British"even though (correct me if I'm wrong) our ruling class are arming the saudis and support them and profit out of it making it very much our buisiness
I haven't mentioned any other episode however in the case of Palestine Britain is directly responsible for the Zionist entity. It colonised Palestine and forced it on the people. , It killed 10% of the indigenous population in the 1930s, it stationed 100k troops in Palestine in the 1930s. Britain IS responsible for the violence and the injustice in Palestine. Note: I'm not attacking working class British people. We didn't do this nor should we feel treated by observing the truth.
I'm discussing the on going genocide in Gaza specifically. You claim that other nations commit acts just as bad and whilst I'm not well versed in the examples you give, as far as I know a minimum of 25 thousand Palestinians have been killed in 11 weeks, schools, hospitals, refugee camps, churches have all been deliberately targeted and destroyed, white phosphorus has been dropped, hundreds of journalists and UN workers have been killed (a record number I believe). The *rate* (important word) of slaughter and human rights violations by settlers is unmatched as far as I'm aware.
Ok regarding the 7th - where is the objective evidence of what you claim? I Wanna be clear - there is no evidence for sexual violence that I have seen. There are photos are are suggestive but nothing more Videos of women with blood on their clothes but this is not credible evidence o the claim you're making. The settlers whom claim it only claim to have seen it but there are no videos showing it. Nothing. Why don't you inbox me what you've seen and we can go thorough it? Remember the person claiming the fact has to prove it.
My definition of public record is not social media videos. I corrected you and explained what I meant but you ignored it or didn't read properly? read again and come back to me
I can show you the testimony of Israeli settler IOF admitting they shot and killed settlers. I can show you the testimony in Haaretz and the audio of settlers telling people the IOF killed them. More than happy to do that. I'm willing to show you this and walk through each step at a time.
OK we need to be clear "Genocide" is NOT a loaded term. Here is the definition via the United Nations:
"Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
-Killing members of the group; -Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; -Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; -Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; -Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Ok each of those points are met.The intent, the action and the victims can all be seen. If you're confused, shall we go through them one at a time? Put simply, if this is not a genocide then the word ceases to have meaning.
With regards to you claiming me saying "Hamas being justified" again this is very intellectually dishonest of you. I'm not saying that, I'm saying specific claims need to be justified and that Palestinians have a right to resist colonisation and a right to Their land. The standard of evidence offered to paint settler colonising Israel as victims is not even remotely credible. Besides, The idea that a white guy from New York is justified in moving to a semitic land, killing people, taking homes and calling people who object to this as terrorist or unreasonable is insane.
Regarding Britains definition of "terrorist" - yes people whom are defined "terrorist" by Britain do include some great people whom liberals now celebrate but at the time condemned. Notice I did NOT claim this applied to Hamas. You must read carefully if you';re trying to have an honest discussion.
You seem desperate to do anything but besides discuss the actual subject. You seem desperate to imply everyone whom object to a genocide as being prejudiced or in league with terrorists somehow. As I said this is the only way to object to what I'm saying - to imply that the majority who see the reality as being "terrorist", 'antisemitic" or 'conspirecy theorist? regarding the rise in antisemitism attacks again I'm not sure why the implication is that I support that? it is worth mentioning though that singing "from the river to the sea Palestine will be free" or even having a Palestinian flag is deemed "antisemitic' by the British state.
It's not me who is being 'extreme' it is you who is defending or attempting to reorientate attention elsewhere. South Africa have filed for genecode. 153 nations voted for ceasefire at the UN but the violence carries on because the USA holds us hostage. Britain and "moderate" liberals find themselves in the spectacular position where they presumedly are fine with this? or at the very least not going to participate in protests/marches/boycotts etc.
I must say your accusation of me "polluting the discourse"is delusional at best and and genocidal defence at worst. I feel like you're worried that if you join me in what I say you're be perceived as 'extreme'. Again, I am happy to go through one step at a time everything I claim.
You're more than welcome to speak with me. I enjoy these discussions. Nothing I have said here is personal or said with the intent to hurt you or anyone. I say it because it's the truth.
I don't understand. You're a fan of mick jones and the clash... did you never read the lyrics?
I don't mean in a sense of taunting you, but its just odd that you wouldnt me hear out for what I'm saying and engage with me when the band you listen to actively wrote about working class struggle and anti-imperialist movements.
Besides, I haven't mentioned Russia and don't know anything about it. Regarding Palestine (the topic I am discussing), What I'm saying isn't controversial
I don't understand. You're a fan of mick jones and the clash... did you never read the lyrics?
I don't mean in a sense of taunting you, but its just odd that you wouldnt me hear out for what I'm saying and engage with me when the band you listen to actively wrote about working class struggle and anti-imperialist movements.
Besides, I haven't mentioned Russia and don't know anything about it. Regarding Palestine (the topic I am discussing), What I'm saying isn't controversial
[Post edited 2 Jan 13:29]
Wow - quite the swerve on one thread from the owner of Wetherspoons to the Middle East conflict.
I don't understand. You're a fan of mick jones and the clash... did you never read the lyrics?
I don't mean in a sense of taunting you, but its just odd that you wouldnt me hear out for what I'm saying and engage with me when the band you listen to actively wrote about working class struggle and anti-imperialist movements.
Besides, I haven't mentioned Russia and don't know anything about it. Regarding Palestine (the topic I am discussing), What I'm saying isn't controversial
[Post edited 2 Jan 13:29]
I've got a mate whose dad was in the Clash and voted Brexit for, er, not entirely left-wing reasons....
"Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius
I don't understand. You're a fan of mick jones and the clash... did you never read the lyrics?
I don't mean in a sense of taunting you, but its just odd that you wouldnt me hear out for what I'm saying and engage with me when the band you listen to actively wrote about working class struggle and anti-imperialist movements.
Besides, I haven't mentioned Russia and don't know anything about it. Regarding Palestine (the topic I am discussing), What I'm saying isn't controversial
[Post edited 2 Jan 13:29]
Sure. The reason I (and others) aren’t engaging re Hamas/Palestine/Israel is because this is first and foremost a QPR forum. People come on here to talk about QPR (or music, films, tv etc) and hopefully avoid the horrific sh1t we all see on the news everyday.
Furthermore, Northernr (owner of the site) has pleaded with us all to try and avoid discussing politics and other controversial subjects as it’s a pain for him to moderate and it usually results in people winding each other up rather than us all holding hands and singing kumbaya, my lord.
You’ve said your piece over the past few days and you’ve got your little avatar as a reminder of where you stand so I’m not really sure what more you want at this stage. It’s a bit like me going on a website dedicated to poetry and moaning that people don’t want to talk about football.
If you genuinely want to discuss Hamas/Israel online, why not try the World News subreddit ( https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/) as you’ll find plenty of people who will be pleased to have a lengthy discussion on the subject. Enjoy.
Sure. The reason I (and others) aren’t engaging re Hamas/Palestine/Israel is because this is first and foremost a QPR forum. People come on here to talk about QPR (or music, films, tv etc) and hopefully avoid the horrific sh1t we all see on the news everyday.
Furthermore, Northernr (owner of the site) has pleaded with us all to try and avoid discussing politics and other controversial subjects as it’s a pain for him to moderate and it usually results in people winding each other up rather than us all holding hands and singing kumbaya, my lord.
You’ve said your piece over the past few days and you’ve got your little avatar as a reminder of where you stand so I’m not really sure what more you want at this stage. It’s a bit like me going on a website dedicated to poetry and moaning that people don’t want to talk about football.
If you genuinely want to discuss Hamas/Israel online, why not try the World News subreddit ( https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/) as you’ll find plenty of people who will be pleased to have a lengthy discussion on the subject. Enjoy.
[Post edited 2 Jan 14:01]
Yeah that's all fine but it was not me who brought the subject up, it was you. You claimed that Celtic fans showing solidarity with the colonised victims of genocide was distasteful and should be condemned (I'm paraphrasing of course, but you used words to that effect). The thread is deleted now I believe.
I HAD to respond to that. people on here are very happy casually tossing out the phrase "Pallywood" which means that the children with their faces burnt off from settlers targeted bombs and white phosphorus are actors and that HAS to be called out. The irony of a British person saying that and believing he is in the right is staggering and I can't emphasise enough the amount of ignorance that goes into that when everything I'm claiming can easily be verified..
My friend, I don't have a personal issue with you or anyone -we're fellow rsss. I respond to this issue because it is such an open and easy to interpret contradiction between what Britain claims to be and what its actions suggest it is. We're whitnessing it. Our leaders (unelected as they are) whom have direct personal financial gain from a settler colony that we forced on indigenous semitic people beginning with the Balfour declaration in 1917 are able to decry opposition to their barbarity as "antisemitic" and (seemingly)many on here are fine with that and are either remaining silent or worse actually join in and condemning us whom are protesting it or bringing it up.
This will define us as a nation from now on. Our leaders have always been a direct contrast to us the working class (we do not share their guilt for the the blood they've spilt over the last 4 centuries or so), however never has this amount of blood been spilled where anyone can see it and anyone can read the history and anyone can know the reality.
Even if you coudon't give a rats about Palestinians you should be concerned with the impact this will have on our standing in the world and the fact that unelected leaders of the UK can do this and a sizeable chunk of Britain is cool with it and support it. It is alarming that me telling you this is considered out of order by many of you.
With every day that passes we seem more and more like the dreaded 'rogue states" we are taught to fear so much.
Anyway, here's a favourite clash number of mine-"Washington Bullets" lyrics are great
Yeah that's all fine but it was not me who brought the subject up, it was you. You claimed that Celtic fans showing solidarity with the colonised victims of genocide was distasteful and should be condemned (I'm paraphrasing of course, but you used words to that effect). The thread is deleted now I believe.
I HAD to respond to that. people on here are very happy casually tossing out the phrase "Pallywood" which means that the children with their faces burnt off from settlers targeted bombs and white phosphorus are actors and that HAS to be called out. The irony of a British person saying that and believing he is in the right is staggering and I can't emphasise enough the amount of ignorance that goes into that when everything I'm claiming can easily be verified..
My friend, I don't have a personal issue with you or anyone -we're fellow rsss. I respond to this issue because it is such an open and easy to interpret contradiction between what Britain claims to be and what its actions suggest it is. We're whitnessing it. Our leaders (unelected as they are) whom have direct personal financial gain from a settler colony that we forced on indigenous semitic people beginning with the Balfour declaration in 1917 are able to decry opposition to their barbarity as "antisemitic" and (seemingly)many on here are fine with that and are either remaining silent or worse actually join in and condemning us whom are protesting it or bringing it up.
This will define us as a nation from now on. Our leaders have always been a direct contrast to us the working class (we do not share their guilt for the the blood they've spilt over the last 4 centuries or so), however never has this amount of blood been spilled where anyone can see it and anyone can read the history and anyone can know the reality.
Even if you coudon't give a rats about Palestinians you should be concerned with the impact this will have on our standing in the world and the fact that unelected leaders of the UK can do this and a sizeable chunk of Britain is cool with it and support it. It is alarming that me telling you this is considered out of order by many of you.
With every day that passes we seem more and more like the dreaded 'rogue states" we are taught to fear so much.
Anyway, here's a favourite clash number of mine-"Washington Bullets" lyrics are great
[Post edited 2 Jan 14:45]
You did not "HAVE to respond to that". It's a thread about the bloke who owns Wetherspoons for goodness sake.
I've asked nicely and been ignored. It will now be locked as per the earlier warning.
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