| Colston Statue vandals innocent 18:40 - Jan 5 with 19803 views | Flashberryjack |
Colston vandals are CLEARED: Gleeful BLM activists thank Banksy for his support after they are acquitted of criminal damage over toppling of Edward Colston statue - sparking outrage that jury has given a 'greenlight to political vandalism. |  |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:07 - Jan 13 with 746 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:02 - Jan 13 by Boundy |
and you could have saved your fingers by posting because funnily enough you're wrong. You see its very easy to put posters in boxes but more difficult to prove you're right with your assumptions . |
…and nigh on impossible if they aren’t true.
Which is why trouble makers often veil them, allude to them, and avoid specifics at all costs. Then run a mile from them when confronted to explain them.
It’s old hat. |  |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:10 - Jan 13 with 745 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 19:38 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
We have been through this already. (You ignored me after I asked you which part showed bias that you accused me of - I assume because nothing did).
How isn’t it a slippery slope? If the jury are people, and a wave of politically charged sympathy has swept the nation for people who commit leftist political violence and criminal damage… then why would anyone think this is a one off?
It’s hardly like it’s the opposite of public opinion. Even on this thread we have people stating they are sure they are guilty but think them getting off with it is “good”.
Doesn’t seem like it’s limited to those 12 jurors to me…
Now onto the slippery slope of leftist political violence and criminal damage in the west. Can you think of a period of time where there has been less, or would you describe it as there being a surge of it over the last few years?
[Post edited 13 Jan 2022 19:45]
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I was making a different point later in the thread.
Do you think the attacking of the Gill sculpture has anything to do with the Colston verdict? |  | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:16 - Jan 13 with 731 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:10 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
I was making a different point later in the thread.
Do you think the attacking of the Gill sculpture has anything to do with the Colston verdict? |
A different point to what?
My question was “where was the bias that you accused me of having?”.
It’s not cricket to make an accusation like that in the middle of a debate and then ignore it when asked.
I think the act (Gill sculpture defacing) was to do with the leftist political wave sweeping the nation where such acts are seen as acceptable now, the Colston act and verdict is very much a part of that, yes.
There is a feeling that people can destroy things if they feel justified enough to. That seems to have gathered pace recently, especially in the last couple of years, wouldn’t you agree? [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:19]
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:17 - Jan 13 with 726 views | ItchySphincter |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 19:49 - Jan 13 by Flashberryjack |
It's all about upholding the law. |
Course it is. |  |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:17 - Jan 13 with 725 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:17 - Jan 13 by ItchySphincter |
Course it is. |
Is it legal then? | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:22 - Jan 13 with 716 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:16 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
A different point to what?
My question was “where was the bias that you accused me of having?”.
It’s not cricket to make an accusation like that in the middle of a debate and then ignore it when asked.
I think the act (Gill sculpture defacing) was to do with the leftist political wave sweeping the nation where such acts are seen as acceptable now, the Colston act and verdict is very much a part of that, yes.
There is a feeling that people can destroy things if they feel justified enough to. That seems to have gathered pace recently, especially in the last couple of years, wouldn’t you agree? [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:19]
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Ok, back to that (briefly).
You’ve been very consistent over time over both group identity issues balanced with the rights and responsibilities of the individual. Quite right too.
In this case, it seemed to me that that you were willing to extrapolate to the point of hyperpbole that a single court case would lead to worldwide anarchy. Nothing to do with what’s gone before.
It’s a departure from your usual style of posting. | | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:24 - Jan 13 with 710 views | Superjan |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:16 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
A different point to what?
My question was “where was the bias that you accused me of having?”.
It’s not cricket to make an accusation like that in the middle of a debate and then ignore it when asked.
I think the act (Gill sculpture defacing) was to do with the leftist political wave sweeping the nation where such acts are seen as acceptable now, the Colston act and verdict is very much a part of that, yes.
There is a feeling that people can destroy things if they feel justified enough to. That seems to have gathered pace recently, especially in the last couple of years, wouldn’t you agree? [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:19]
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What’s your view on the public display of the work of Eric Gill ? Would those on the political right be comfortable with its existence as opposed to those on the left? | | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:26 - Jan 13 with 704 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:22 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
Ok, back to that (briefly).
You’ve been very consistent over time over both group identity issues balanced with the rights and responsibilities of the individual. Quite right too.
In this case, it seemed to me that that you were willing to extrapolate to the point of hyperpbole that a single court case would lead to worldwide anarchy. Nothing to do with what’s gone before.
It’s a departure from your usual style of posting. |
And why is that biased?
I didn’t say it would lead to world wide anarchy either, that’s you delving into hyperbole over my very fair comments.
I said it’s a slippery slope, if there is a wave of sympathy for politically motivated criminal damage and violence - of which there is. It can’t really be argued.
That means in both act and verdict. People that way inclined will certainly be less fearful of the consequences of such crimes (only common sense this would be the case) and it strengthens the feeling that this crime is ok by having a jury let them off the hook despite their clear guilt.
So again, if people are swayed by political ideals, and those people are the jurors in cases - then these politically driven outcomes should (and most probably will) be seen more now.
I really don’t see how that can be argued. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:29 - Jan 13 with 700 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:26 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
And why is that biased?
I didn’t say it would lead to world wide anarchy either, that’s you delving into hyperbole over my very fair comments.
I said it’s a slippery slope, if there is a wave of sympathy for politically motivated criminal damage and violence - of which there is. It can’t really be argued.
That means in both act and verdict. People that way inclined will certainly be less fearful of the consequences of such crimes (only common sense this would be the case) and it strengthens the feeling that this crime is ok by having a jury let them off the hook despite their clear guilt.
So again, if people are swayed by political ideals, and those people are the jurors in cases - then these politically driven outcomes should (and most probably will) be seen more now.
I really don’t see how that can be argued. |
You went from a criminal damage case in Bristol to the destruction of the Colosseum in a couple of paragraphs.
I’d say that was over the top from your usual posts. That’s why I linked it to bias.
If I’m wrong then fair enough. I’ve no problem with being wrong or changing my mind. [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:30]
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:32 - Jan 13 with 695 views | ItchySphincter |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:17 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
Is it legal then? |
What’s that got to do what I said?
Y’all need to get that knot outta your panties.
So, what do we think the punishment should be then, being as that we’ve found them guilty? What do you fancy? What do you think would be appropriate? Surely no point in finding them guilty if your not going to punish them. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:34 - Jan 13 with 695 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:24 - Jan 13 by Superjan |
What’s your view on the public display of the work of Eric Gill ? Would those on the political right be comfortable with its existence as opposed to those on the left? |
No views at all, it’s art from close to the turn of the last century. What is it? 20’s? 30’s?
What the artist was like as a person is of no interest to me. If Da Vinci turned out to be persona non grata, doesn’t make his art any less phenomenal.
The left without any shadow of a doubt have a need to assert political dominance. You don’t see many widespread rioting from the right, you see them invite debate. You don’t see them calling to smash all statues they don’t like, they discuss the merits of them.
So with regards to Gill’s sculpture, again I’m sure it has very little to do with Gill himself, he is being used as an excuse to cause more damage to history as a symbol of anarchy and dominance.
There is a perfectly good statue of Karl Marx in Highgate, who’s ideas brought death to millions - not heard of that one being defaced ever.
Strange that. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:37 - Jan 13 with 690 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:32 - Jan 13 by ItchySphincter |
What’s that got to do what I said?
Y’all need to get that knot outta your panties.
So, what do we think the punishment should be then, being as that we’ve found them guilty? What do you fancy? What do you think would be appropriate? Surely no point in finding them guilty if your not going to punish them. |
You said it has nothing to do with upholding the law, and more to do with people not being punished for criminal damage.
Unless you believe it’s a legal act then there is no difference in either part of that statement.
I’m not a judge, don’t know the penalty for criminal damage. Whatever the tariff for that crime is, they should be punished with that.
Didn’t you say you have no doubt they did it?
Unfortunately your need to impress others with a political affiliation that you have no clue about, often takes over your brain cells that produce common sense. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:40 - Jan 13 with 687 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:29 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
You went from a criminal damage case in Bristol to the destruction of the Colosseum in a couple of paragraphs.
I’d say that was over the top from your usual posts. That’s why I linked it to bias.
If I’m wrong then fair enough. I’ve no problem with being wrong or changing my mind. [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:30]
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I did, but not in the sense you are suggesting.
I said if people think it’s “good” that these vandals got off with criminal damage because of links to slavery, then they should also support criminal damage to such monuments as the pyramids and Colosseum, and if not - why not.
It was a question of theory, not a prediction of destruction.
Why is that over the top? And why is it biased?
If there was a right wing wave sweeping the globe and monuments of Karl Marx were getting destroyed and being found innocent - I would have the same opinion, slippery slope, not a good way to go when public political opinion is trumping the laws of the land.
Encourages further spates of political criminality. [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:47]
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:46 - Jan 13 with 678 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:40 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I did, but not in the sense you are suggesting.
I said if people think it’s “good” that these vandals got off with criminal damage because of links to slavery, then they should also support criminal damage to such monuments as the pyramids and Colosseum, and if not - why not.
It was a question of theory, not a prediction of destruction.
Why is that over the top? And why is it biased?
If there was a right wing wave sweeping the globe and monuments of Karl Marx were getting destroyed and being found innocent - I would have the same opinion, slippery slope, not a good way to go when public political opinion is trumping the laws of the land.
Encourages further spates of political criminality. [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:47]
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At no point did I say it was good they got off.
I just accepted the jury’s singular decision and pointed out that it would not lead to a free for all with criminals getting off criminal damage charges. ( Including smashing up the Colosseum ).
I’m also concerned when some come out saying we’ve got to get rid of jury’s who don’t come up with verdicts their happy with. Include the AG in that.
Both worries, aren’t they? | | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:49 - Jan 13 with 667 views | ItchySphincter |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:37 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
You said it has nothing to do with upholding the law, and more to do with people not being punished for criminal damage.
Unless you believe it’s a legal act then there is no difference in either part of that statement.
I’m not a judge, don’t know the penalty for criminal damage. Whatever the tariff for that crime is, they should be punished with that.
Didn’t you say you have no doubt they did it?
Unfortunately your need to impress others with a political affiliation that you have no clue about, often takes over your brain cells that produce common sense. |
I have no political affiliation, maybe that’s why I’m so misunderstood, but thank you.
Did they do it? Yes.
Do I want them punished? No, don’t care, and I fail to see what anyone motivation to see them punished is, being as all they did was throw a revered symbol of treating non-whites as sub-human in to a river, big wow.
I’m just glad I’m surrounded by so many law abiding, upholding citizens here. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:52 - Jan 13 with 654 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:46 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
At no point did I say it was good they got off.
I just accepted the jury’s singular decision and pointed out that it would not lead to a free for all with criminals getting off criminal damage charges. ( Including smashing up the Colosseum ).
I’m also concerned when some come out saying we’ve got to get rid of jury’s who don’t come up with verdicts their happy with. Include the AG in that.
Both worries, aren’t they? |
I wasn’t referring to you.
Others have said they are sure they are guilty but glad they got off. That seems to be the general consensus if you look at social media, and even had those comments on this thread.
So then I asked, if this is the opinion that seems to be the general consensus - then why would this not happen again if a jury is picked from a public with this consensus.
Again, those that are happy they got off with destroying Colston’s statue because of its links to slavery HAVE TO also support any plans, actions of destroying more well known monuments such as the Pyramids or Colosseum - if not, why not (that’s the important bit that is being overlooked and unanswered).
No I’m not concerned by comments such as that. I think if there is a fear of jurors making political decisions as opposed to ones aligning with the laws of the land, then for political trials it may be the case where we don’t have jurors and have professional people that know the law and have a vested interest in upholding it.
I’d say the same about political jury decisions in the Deep South in the 1940’s too… wouldn’t you? Or would you be happy because the decision came from the jury? [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:53]
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:55 - Jan 13 with 649 views | Flashberryjack |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:46 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
At no point did I say it was good they got off.
I just accepted the jury’s singular decision and pointed out that it would not lead to a free for all with criminals getting off criminal damage charges. ( Including smashing up the Colosseum ).
I’m also concerned when some come out saying we’ve got to get rid of jury’s who don’t come up with verdicts their happy with. Include the AG in that.
Both worries, aren’t they? |
I'm in favour of the jury system, but of course, sometimes they will get it wrong, and on this occasion I think they got it wrong, badly.
Will the verdict encourage like minded people to vandalise other monuments they find offensive ? most definitely. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:56 - Jan 13 with 645 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:49 - Jan 13 by ItchySphincter |
I have no political affiliation, maybe that’s why I’m so misunderstood, but thank you.
Did they do it? Yes.
Do I want them punished? No, don’t care, and I fail to see what anyone motivation to see them punished is, being as all they did was throw a revered symbol of treating non-whites as sub-human in to a river, big wow.
I’m just glad I’m surrounded by so many law abiding, upholding citizens here. |
You aren’t misunderstood at all.
So you are having a go at people for wanting law and order in society? And you seem to be suggesting that your stance of knowing people committed a crime but being glad they got off with it to be the better opinion?
So Itch, if you were in the jury I can only assume you would find them not guilty despite being sure they did it? And that is because you didn’t like the statue either?
When I say slippery slope Gwyn, this is exactly what I mean. [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:58]
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:56 - Jan 13 with 644 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:55 - Jan 13 by Flashberryjack |
I'm in favour of the jury system, but of course, sometimes they will get it wrong, and on this occasion I think they got it wrong, badly.
Will the verdict encourage like minded people to vandalise other monuments they find offensive ? most definitely. |
I really don’t see how that can be argued. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:59 - Jan 13 with 638 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:52 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
I wasn’t referring to you.
Others have said they are sure they are guilty but glad they got off. That seems to be the general consensus if you look at social media, and even had those comments on this thread.
So then I asked, if this is the opinion that seems to be the general consensus - then why would this not happen again if a jury is picked from a public with this consensus.
Again, those that are happy they got off with destroying Colston’s statue because of its links to slavery HAVE TO also support any plans, actions of destroying more well known monuments such as the Pyramids or Colosseum - if not, why not (that’s the important bit that is being overlooked and unanswered).
No I’m not concerned by comments such as that. I think if there is a fear of jurors making political decisions as opposed to ones aligning with the laws of the land, then for political trials it may be the case where we don’t have jurors and have professional people that know the law and have a vested interest in upholding it.
I’d say the same about political jury decisions in the Deep South in the 1940’s too… wouldn’t you? Or would you be happy because the decision came from the jury? [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:53]
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In regards to political jury’s, that’s what the making of laws is for. It may be slow(er) but it’s the only way.
I’ll say it again, it ok to have cause. You can recycle because you’re worried about the environment but still drive a car. It doesn’t have to go to the nth degree. | | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:01 - Jan 13 with 635 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:55 - Jan 13 by Flashberryjack |
I'm in favour of the jury system, but of course, sometimes they will get it wrong, and on this occasion I think they got it wrong, badly.
Will the verdict encourage like minded people to vandalise other monuments they find offensive ? most definitely. |
I don’t think so Flash.
What happens if in the next similar trial the defendents are found guilty? Is that the start of the slippery slope of no more vandalism? If so what does that mean for the Colston verdict? | | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:03 - Jan 13 with 633 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:59 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
In regards to political jury’s, that’s what the making of laws is for. It may be slow(er) but it’s the only way.
I’ll say it again, it ok to have cause. You can recycle because you’re worried about the environment but still drive a car. It doesn’t have to go to the nth degree. |
You can’t have jurors taking it into their own hands, they are there to uphold the law not to impose their political beliefs. Once that happens then questions need to be asked of the system.
It is ok to have a cause yes, but it’s not okay for that cause to manifest itself in violence and criminality - that is taking it to the nth degree.
You can be worried about the environment while driving a car yes. But if you are preaching about climate change and telling others to stop driving cars, then you really shouldn’t be driving one yourself. Raising the profile of the issue is not excuse enough. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:04 - Jan 13 with 625 views | Gwyn737 |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 20:56 - Jan 13 by Dr_Parnassus |
You aren’t misunderstood at all.
So you are having a go at people for wanting law and order in society? And you seem to be suggesting that your stance of knowing people committed a crime but being glad they got off with it to be the better opinion?
So Itch, if you were in the jury I can only assume you would find them not guilty despite being sure they did it? And that is because you didn’t like the statue either?
When I say slippery slope Gwyn, this is exactly what I mean. [Post edited 13 Jan 2022 20:58]
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I think the M6 toll is a ripoff. If someone didn’t pay, got charged and got off I’d be pleased.
Does that mean I’m against all forms of taxation? | | | |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:06 - Jan 13 with 623 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:01 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
I don’t think so Flash.
What happens if in the next similar trial the defendents are found guilty? Is that the start of the slippery slope of no more vandalism? If so what does that mean for the Colston verdict? |
The slippery slope is the political ideology that sparked such criminality at the Colston statue.
It’s then exacerbated when jurors find them innocent because they are sympathetic with their cause. Not just jurors of course, political figures and parts of vocal society allowing such acts and treating it as acceptable.
Same when Kamala Harris was egging on the riots and telling people to donate to a bail fund to get them out of jail.
This is all a slippery slope of which innocent verdicts for perpetrators is very much a part of.
Again don’t see how any logical person can argue otherwise. | |
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| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:08 - Jan 13 with 622 views | Flashberryjack |
| Colston Statue vandals innocent on 21:01 - Jan 13 by Gwyn737 |
I don’t think so Flash.
What happens if in the next similar trial the defendents are found guilty? Is that the start of the slippery slope of no more vandalism? If so what does that mean for the Colston verdict? |
Of course it won't, but it will let them know that if they vandalise other monuments they happen to find offensive, there will be consequences, whether that be financial or custodial. | |
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