| Future dividends and the Trust 10:23 - Dec 8 with 5703 views | exiledclaseboy |
Following on from some comments in another thread about the Trust and how it takes decisions, a hypothetical question. If the Board decided to pay itself further dividends in the future, how should the Trust vote? And further to that, should the Trust's board take the decision on our behalf or should there be a vote of members to decide how the Supporter Director should vote? |  |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:41 - Dec 8 with 2312 views | jandyt |
I guess the decision should be based on the level of dividend. If it were reasonable, then I wouldn't have a serious injection. I'm assuming that as a shareholder, the Trust would be in receipt of the appropriate level of dividend. This could then be held in reserve to either purchase additional shares if they were issued, or for a rainy day. |  |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:42 - Dec 8 with 2309 views | Uxbridge |
The very topic discussed at the AGM. I couldn't vote in favour of further dividends given current ticket prices and seeming lack of funds for stadium expansion.
Given nature of the topic and discuss issues I'd propose an EGM rather than a full vote which could be framed by other issues. if this isn't an issue for wider discussion outside of the Trust board I don't know what is.
Other shareholders would probably make vote irrelevant but I'm all for a more forceful recognition that things need tweaking. |  |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:43 - Dec 8 with 2306 views | ItchySphincter |
Fans should get this issue of dividends out of their heads. It is perfectly reasonable for directors to take dividends. If they pleaded poverty and didn't invest in Fairwood or Landore or the playing staff, whilst paying a dividend, then we would have an issue. The trust should always vote for what it considers to be in the best interests of the club and fans and yes, the trust director should in most cases be able to cast a vote without balloting the members every time. |  |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:47 - Dec 8 with 2287 views | ItchySphincter |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:42 - Dec 8 by Uxbridge |
The very topic discussed at the AGM. I couldn't vote in favour of further dividends given current ticket prices and seeming lack of funds for stadium expansion.
Given nature of the topic and discuss issues I'd propose an EGM rather than a full vote which could be framed by other issues. if this isn't an issue for wider discussion outside of the Trust board I don't know what is.
Other shareholders would probably make vote irrelevant but I'm all for a more forceful recognition that things need tweaking. |
That's pretty fair although I am a little surprised that stadium expansion, or lack of it was a financial issue. I thought it was partly logistics and planning that were under consideration. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:51 - Dec 8 with 2278 views | Uxbridge |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 10:47 - Dec 8 by ItchySphincter |
That's pretty fair although I am a little surprised that stadium expansion, or lack of it was a financial issue. I thought it was partly logistics and planning that were under consideration. |
So did I until the Trust AGM and the candid comments of the SD. Call it a hunch but I'm sure money for the divi will be more easily found ... | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:17 - Dec 8 with 2218 views | Shaky |
Although the Trust doesn't have sufficient voting power to take proactive decisions for the club, I nevertheless believe that people are vastly underestimating its ability to influence decision making.
Much of the club's reputation is built on the appearance that it is supporter owned, and I am certain the other main shareholders would be very concerned about the possibility of the Trust turning activist in its opposition to board decisions.
In my view there is no doubt that the Trust has tremendous political leverage. [Post edited 8 Dec 2013 11:25]
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:22 - Dec 8 with 2214 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:17 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
Although the Trust doesn't have sufficient voting power to take proactive decisions for the club, I nevertheless believe that people are vastly underestimating its ability to influence decision making.
Much of the club's reputation is built on the appearance that it is supporter owned, and I am certain the other main shareholders would be very concerned about the possibility of the Trust turning activist in its opposition to board decisions.
In my view there is no doubt that the Trust has tremendous political leverage. [Post edited 8 Dec 2013 11:25]
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I agree, the question is does the Trust board have the will or gumption to exert that influence? It doesn't seem to be doing it at the moment. As I said on another thread, the Trust's silence on some of the issues facing the fans at the moment is deafening. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:27 - Dec 8 with 2201 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:22 - Dec 8 by exiledclaseboy |
I agree, the question is does the Trust board have the will or gumption to exert that influence? It doesn't seem to be doing it at the moment. As I said on another thread, the Trust's silence on some of the issues facing the fans at the moment is deafening. |
But then it is a relatively straightforward matter for Trust members to take democratic action to appoint directors who will represent their views. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:30 - Dec 8 with 2191 views | Darran |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:27 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
But then it is a relatively straightforward matter for Trust members to take democratic action to appoint directors who will represent their views. |
Well yeah I agree but the problem is they don't because the majority of them have no interest in voting. |  |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:30 - Dec 8 with 2189 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:22 - Dec 8 by exiledclaseboy |
I agree, the question is does the Trust board have the will or gumption to exert that influence? It doesn't seem to be doing it at the moment. As I said on another thread, the Trust's silence on some of the issues facing the fans at the moment is deafening. |
Got to say though I have a somewhat eerie sense of daja vu, since this is almost exactly the same line of discussion that immediately preceded my ban on the old board this summer. Remember? | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:31 - Dec 8 with 2189 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:27 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
But then it is a relatively straightforward matter for Trust members to take democratic action to appoint directors who will represent their views. |
In theory yes. In practice probably not so straightforward. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:31 - Dec 8 with 2185 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:30 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
Got to say though I have a somewhat eerie sense of daja vu, since this is almost exactly the same line of discussion that immediately preceded my ban on the old board this summer. Remember? |
Genuinely, no I don't. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:36 - Dec 8 with 2174 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:31 - Dec 8 by exiledclaseboy |
In theory yes. In practice probably not so straightforward. |
I think you are wrong about that, but that is one reason I asked Phil to supply the Articles of Association for the company so I can take a look.
Bottom line - as I understand it - is that the Trust is organised as a standard limited liability company, financed by ordinary shares.
Typically if you can gather 10% of the votes you can ensure the nomination of candidates for board seats, that are then to be voted on either at either AGM or EGM.
The threshold for approval at EGM is higher, usually 75% of the quorum, but even that vote should be easily winnable on the basis of 1 member/1 vote given the overwhelming sentiment involved. [Post edited 8 Dec 2013 17:14]
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:40 - Dec 8 with 2163 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:36 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
I think you are wrong about that, but that is one reason I asked Phil to supply the Articles of Association for the company so I can take a look.
Bottom line - as I understand it - is that the Trust is organised as a standard limited liability company, financed by ordinary shares.
Typically if you can gather 10% of the votes you can ensure the nomination of candidates for board seats, that are then to be voted on either at either AGM or EGM.
The threshold for approval at EGM is higher, usually 75% of the quorum, but even that vote should be easily winnable on the basis of 1 member/1 vote given the overwhelming sentiment involved. [Post edited 8 Dec 2013 17:14]
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Is the Trust set up as a company in that way? I'm not sure it is. The Trust owns shares in Swansea City, I'm not sure that there are shares in the Trust itself. That may also answer why the documents your looking for aren't available. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:43 - Dec 8 with 2158 views | Darran |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:36 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
I think you are wrong about that, but that is one reason I asked Phil to supply the Articles of Association for the company so I can take a look.
Bottom line - as I understand it - is that the Trust is organised as a standard limited liability company, financed by ordinary shares.
Typically if you can gather 10% of the votes you can ensure the nomination of candidates for board seats, that are then to be voted on either at either AGM or EGM.
The threshold for approval at EGM is higher, usually 75% of the quorum, but even that vote should be easily winnable on the basis of 1 member/1 vote given the overwhelming sentiment involved. [Post edited 8 Dec 2013 17:14]
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Dud you go to the AGM t'other week or do you know anyone (other than Uxy) that went? | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:44 - Dec 8 with 2156 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:30 - Dec 8 by Darran |
Well yeah I agree but the problem is they don't because the majority of them have no interest in voting. |
First of all I think something like ticket prices is an issue that would certainly command widespread member attention.
Secondly the absolute number of people that turn up to vote or send in a voting proxy may or may not be an issue depending on how the statutes of the company are worded.
Is there any way you can point me to a link for the the "Articles of Association" for the Trust? | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:45 - Dec 8 with 2151 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:43 - Dec 8 by Darran |
Dud you go to the AGM t'other week or do you know anyone (other than Uxy) that went? |
I wasn't there, I'm not a member of the Trust and live on the other side of the country ;-) | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:46 - Dec 8 with 2144 views | Darran |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:45 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
I wasn't there, I'm not a member of the Trust and live on the other side of the country ;-) |
Ok. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:48 - Dec 8 with 2139 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:40 - Dec 8 by exiledclaseboy |
Is the Trust set up as a company in that way? I'm not sure it is. The Trust owns shares in Swansea City, I'm not sure that there are shares in the Trust itself. That may also answer why the documents your looking for aren't available. |
I'm pretty it is a company, certainly based on the stuff I looked at in the summer.
When you joined the Trust didn't you get a share? | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:51 - Dec 8 with 2128 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:48 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
I'm pretty it is a company, certainly based on the stuff I looked at in the summer.
When you joined the Trust didn't you get a share? |
Ah I seem to remember something about that, yes. It was a long time ago though. Perhaps Phil will be able to clarify. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:52 - Dec 8 with 2127 views | jackonicko |
I think the Trust is on the Register of Friendly Societies rather than Companies House. So it is a slightly different vehicle - a bit like the difference between a Bank and a Building Society. I don't 'think' there are Arts of Association for them - but its a long time since I looked at one of them.
However, there will be some 'rules' governing the trust - likely to be on the swans trust website or the supporters direct website somewhere? |  | | |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:52 - Dec 8 with 2125 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:48 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
I'm pretty it is a company, certainly based on the stuff I looked at in the summer.
When you joined the Trust didn't you get a share? |
. . .Also Board, Directors, AGM, etc, is all jargon and paraphernalia of limited liability companies.
I'm 99% certain that is what we are dealing with, but astonished there isn't a better understanding amongst you guys of what you have.
Then as now I believe there is a massive problem with transparency. | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 12:03 - Dec 8 with 2097 views | Shaky |
| Future dividends and the Trust on 11:52 - Dec 8 by Shaky |
. . .Also Board, Directors, AGM, etc, is all jargon and paraphernalia of limited liability companies.
I'm 99% certain that is what we are dealing with, but astonished there isn't a better understanding amongst you guys of what you have.
Then as now I believe there is a massive problem with transparency. |
Check dis aret:
http://www.swanstrust.co.uk/Join-and-Benefits.aspx | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 12:05 - Dec 8 with 2089 views | exiledclaseboy |
Page not found. No benefits then.  | |
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| Future dividends and the Trust on 12:11 - Dec 8 with 2076 views | jackonicko |
From the SD website:
A Supporters’ Trust is a democratic, not-for-profit organisation of supporters, committed to strengthening the voice for supporters in the decision making process at a club, and strengthening the links between the club and the community it serves.
Supporters’ Trusts are constituted as Community Benefit Societies (CBS), a form of Co-operative that operates under a one-member one-vote principle. CBS’ are registered with the Financial Services Authority, and any changes to the rules must be approved by the members and only become effective once the FSA has agreed them, checking they are in keeping with the spirit of the organisation. The members own all assets and liabilities collectively, and any profit made is either kept as reserves or reinvested to meet its objects. They are not charities and whilst they contain the word ‘Trust’ they do not follow the legal definition of a ‘Trust’.
http://www.supporters-direct.org/homepage/what-we-do/faqs | | | |
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