| The Bond Scheme 03:09 - Oct 6 with 6484 views | gr1 |
I know some people have asked some questions if this is a good investment.
A few things to take into account although I have not seen the offer document as yet.
It states the 5% interest and 3% credit are fixed - but they are obviously not guaranteed.
It also mentions the 5 year period could be extended. No, the term cannot be extended.
Look at the WHU bond scheme in 1992 which was a vehicle used to raise money for the redevelopment of Upton Park. I know the terms are not the same but the principle is the same. Raise money. That went horribly wrong and caused major rifts within the fan base.
Just stating some facts which may help people make a decision based on head and not heart. If I was cash rich would definitely help the club out - unfortunately.....
Come on you R'ssss!
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| The Bond Scheme on 08:59 - Oct 6 with 5234 views | Jeff |
a few of us from here are going along to the presentation this evening by the club.
i'd assume we'll be able to share the full details of the scheme with you later on |  |
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| The Bond Scheme on 10:10 - Oct 6 with 5136 views | stowmarketrange |
| The Bond Scheme on 08:59 - Oct 6 by Jeff |
a few of us from here are going along to the presentation this evening by the club.
i'd assume we'll be able to share the full details of the scheme with you later on |
I was planning on going tonight but now I find I can’t make it,so I would be grateful for any additional information you can gather tonight.
Thanks in advance Jeff. |  | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 10:44 - Oct 6 with 5084 views | LythamR |
it all seems a bit rushed to me
first announcement last week, presentation meeting tonight and sunrise/landrush tomorrow morning at 9am for "priority investors"
and yet as far as I can tell no chance as yet to review the full documentation and yet they want me to provide all my information to tifosy including setting up their special ISA now so that I am "ready to invest" at 9am tomorrow
FOMO factors built into the email. Bold type. "applications will be accepted on a strict first-come, first-served basis"
Is it me, am i expecting too much information before having a punt? |  | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 11:00 - Oct 6 with 5049 views | gazza1 |
| The Bond Scheme on 10:44 - Oct 6 by LythamR |
it all seems a bit rushed to me
first announcement last week, presentation meeting tonight and sunrise/landrush tomorrow morning at 9am for "priority investors"
and yet as far as I can tell no chance as yet to review the full documentation and yet they want me to provide all my information to tifosy including setting up their special ISA now so that I am "ready to invest" at 9am tomorrow
FOMO factors built into the email. Bold type. "applications will be accepted on a strict first-come, first-served basis"
Is it me, am i expecting too much information before having a punt? |
Think all the basic info is 'out there' already.....you are perhaps looking at the fine detail of the deal.......I am sure those questions will be asked tonight.
PS - GIANLUCA VIALLI is a founder of Tifosy!!!! [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 11:27]
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| The Bond Scheme on 12:01 - Oct 6 with 4974 views | dsw2509 |
I think the offer document is being unveiled at the same time as the applications open. That is really odd, from my perspective. Normally a period of a week or so is allowed to pass. If it is then oversubscribed there is normally a scale down or a ballot. So I hope they are not looking to rush people into it. The only upside is the promotion kicker. Otherwise it is all about the credit risk. So it is really vital to read the offer document before committing anything. I shall certainly be doing so.
No doubt tonight’s event will be at least partially illuminating. I cannot go as I am too far away. I think the owners are straight people but I would like to understand better why the bond is needed. They could find it themselves easily enough. So this either because they really need the money or it is a genuine fan involvement exercise. In either case this would cause me to think hard about it at any rate, I would not invest money I could not afford to lose. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 12:07 - Oct 6 with 4966 views | superhoopdownunder |
I'm based In Australia so unable to attend any information nights.
I did request some further information but nothing has been provided. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 12:27 - Oct 6 with 4929 views | stowmarketrange |
| The Bond Scheme on 12:07 - Oct 6 by superhoopdownunder |
I'm based In Australia so unable to attend any information nights.
I did request some further information but nothing has been provided. |
Lightweight.  | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 12:44 - Oct 6 with 4897 views | superhoopdownunder |
Haha - not meant to go more than 5kms (3 miles) from my home.....
Stopped listening to these bullshit rules 18 months ago | | | |
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| The Bond Scheme on 13:30 - Oct 6 with 4826 views | LythamR |
| The Bond Scheme on 12:01 - Oct 6 by dsw2509 |
I think the offer document is being unveiled at the same time as the applications open. That is really odd, from my perspective. Normally a period of a week or so is allowed to pass. If it is then oversubscribed there is normally a scale down or a ballot. So I hope they are not looking to rush people into it. The only upside is the promotion kicker. Otherwise it is all about the credit risk. So it is really vital to read the offer document before committing anything. I shall certainly be doing so.
No doubt tonight’s event will be at least partially illuminating. I cannot go as I am too far away. I think the owners are straight people but I would like to understand better why the bond is needed. They could find it themselves easily enough. So this either because they really need the money or it is a genuine fan involvement exercise. In either case this would cause me to think hard about it at any rate, I would not invest money I could not afford to lose. |
I think its very odd, I am not questioning the integrity of the club or owners here and obviously i have freedom of choice to participate or not. I want to participate conceptually but I was taught never to sign a contract without reading it first so i wont be getting involved until i have had a chance to do that.
My FOMO is far outweighed by my FOGF! | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 13:55 - Oct 6 with 4785 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
I just want to say anybody that is willing to invest 500 pounds right now to help the club move forward has my respect and admiration .
Just like the fans who attend most if not all of the matches has the same .I truly believe they are the rock on which QPR stays afloat and we finally have the players to reward those loyal supporters .
For the past few years it sounded like torture going to the games and the results were almost predictable in a negative way but now its fun and value for money .
Fair play to all |  | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 22:37 - Oct 6 with 4516 views | Jeff |
Apologies for the scratch reporting, this is done from the pub post meeting, which was good.
Key point to take away is that the 3% kick back is not valid against ST or away tickets. So cup tickets, match tickets if you’re not a ST or tat from the club shop.
They’re doing it part to get fans involved and part to just get an injection of capital at a competitive rate vs standard business loans.
They can repay it at anytime, so if we get promoted this season, bang, you get your stake plus 5% plus 25% and that’s all she wrote
The risk is obviously is we do a Derby and there’s no money to pay back then there’s no money. They can extend the bond though, it’s a 5 year term, that doesn’t mean maximum term.
The overall mood of the room tonight was that whilst the 3% club cash was disappointing (that’s potentially a lot of home shirts and umbrellas…) the 5% interest plus potential 25% on promotion offer was built on solid foundations, Ruben, Amit and Tony are in the for the long haul.
Amit, Ruben, Les and Lee made themselves available both during the Q and A and afterwards and didn’t duck any questions.
I went to the event planning to invest, but looking to find a reason not to. Whilst the 3% issue is a slight disappointment, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that my stake is [more] at risk than usual, and I’m still investing tomorrow morning… [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 23:06]
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| The Bond Scheme on 23:34 - Oct 6 with 4392 views | dannyblue |
| The Bond Scheme on 22:37 - Oct 6 by Jeff |
Apologies for the scratch reporting, this is done from the pub post meeting, which was good.
Key point to take away is that the 3% kick back is not valid against ST or away tickets. So cup tickets, match tickets if you’re not a ST or tat from the club shop.
They’re doing it part to get fans involved and part to just get an injection of capital at a competitive rate vs standard business loans.
They can repay it at anytime, so if we get promoted this season, bang, you get your stake plus 5% plus 25% and that’s all she wrote
The risk is obviously is we do a Derby and there’s no money to pay back then there’s no money. They can extend the bond though, it’s a 5 year term, that doesn’t mean maximum term.
The overall mood of the room tonight was that whilst the 3% club cash was disappointing (that’s potentially a lot of home shirts and umbrellas…) the 5% interest plus potential 25% on promotion offer was built on solid foundations, Ruben, Amit and Tony are in the for the long haul.
Amit, Ruben, Les and Lee made themselves available both during the Q and A and afterwards and didn’t duck any questions.
I went to the event planning to invest, but looking to find a reason not to. Whilst the 3% issue is a slight disappointment, I haven’t seen anything to suggest that my stake is [more] at risk than usual, and I’m still investing tomorrow morning… [Post edited 6 Oct 2021 23:06]
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Thanks for the summary. Did they say whether you'd have to pay income tax on the 3%? |  | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 23:37 - Oct 6 with 4382 views | Jeff |
| The Bond Scheme on 23:34 - Oct 6 by dannyblue |
Thanks for the summary. Did they say whether you'd have to pay income tax on the 3%? |
If it’s outside your 20k ISA allowance, then yes, it’s taxable… | |
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| The Bond Scheme on 23:54 - Oct 6 with 4352 views | dannyblue |
| The Bond Scheme on 23:37 - Oct 6 by Jeff |
If it’s outside your 20k ISA allowance, then yes, it’s taxable… |
But what if you don't use the 3%?...I don't buy shirts often, I might go to a couple away games a year...I do buy a season ticket.
Say I could do a £10k bond.
3% is £300
If I pay tax on that at 40%, I'm paying £120 for it.
I'd be better off not getting the 3% and just buying those tickets myself.
I don't want to pay income tax on a credit that I won't use
Hmmm. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 23:57 - Oct 6 with 4345 views | Jeff |
| The Bond Scheme on 23:54 - Oct 6 by dannyblue |
But what if you don't use the 3%?...I don't buy shirts often, I might go to a couple away games a year...I do buy a season ticket.
Say I could do a £10k bond.
3% is £300
If I pay tax on that at 40%, I'm paying £120 for it.
I'd be better off not getting the 3% and just buying those tickets myself.
I don't want to pay income tax on a credit that I won't use
Hmmm. |
They were keen to stress that the selling point is the 5% return with the 25% promotion bonus. That’s what they’re selling. The 3% club cash, however it comes to you is a niceity, a favour, a cherry on top if you will… | |
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| The Bond Scheme on 23:59 - Oct 6 with 4340 views | dannyblue |
Yes but one that costs me 40% of 3%!
I'll think it through. Thanks again for reporting back and answering my questions. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 00:00 - Oct 7 with 4339 views | dannyblue |
Perhaps they could / should make the 3% bonus optional or waivable. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 08:34 - Oct 7 with 4144 views | gazza1 |
I do not believe that the 3% will be taxable.....just like the other extra's are not taxable. The 3% is not cash like the 5%. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 09:55 - Oct 7 with 4016 views | LythamR |
| The Bond Scheme on 08:34 - Oct 7 by gazza1 |
I do not believe that the 3% will be taxable.....just like the other extra's are not taxable. The 3% is not cash like the 5%. |
I wouldnt bank on that assumption without getting it confirmed from an accountant pr tax expert
There are plenty of benefits that are still taxable even though its not cash
"8% interest per annum (5% cash, 3% in Club Credit redeemable on tickets & merchandise)".
Unless its in the ISA. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 09:57 - Oct 7 with 4007 views | AndyGNCFC |
| The Bond Scheme on 08:34 - Oct 7 by gazza1 |
I do not believe that the 3% will be taxable.....just like the other extra's are not taxable. The 3% is not cash like the 5%. |
Hi.
Jumped on here to get people's thoughts, but have punted on this today.
I have no connection with the club or Tifosy in anyway but this is the exact same terms we got on the Norwich Bond, we raised the finance for our new training center and are already seeing the rewards.
the 3% isn't taxable, we got ours on a gift card each year to spend.
the 5% is taxable and the 25% promotion bonus.
I went into the Norwich bond not expecting promotion so that ended after 2 years, so have got in on this one (with any luck) as 5% is good in anyones terms, I just made sure not to invest more than I could afford to lose.
Fingers crossed you guys do well and go the same way as Norwich with home grown talent coming through. | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 10:10 - Oct 7 with 3956 views | LythamR |
| The Bond Scheme on 09:57 - Oct 7 by AndyGNCFC |
Hi.
Jumped on here to get people's thoughts, but have punted on this today.
I have no connection with the club or Tifosy in anyway but this is the exact same terms we got on the Norwich Bond, we raised the finance for our new training center and are already seeing the rewards.
the 3% isn't taxable, we got ours on a gift card each year to spend.
the 5% is taxable and the 25% promotion bonus.
I went into the Norwich bond not expecting promotion so that ended after 2 years, so have got in on this one (with any luck) as 5% is good in anyones terms, I just made sure not to invest more than I could afford to lose.
Fingers crossed you guys do well and go the same way as Norwich with home grown talent coming through. |
Thanks for the input Andy and particularly the Gift Card info
How hard would it have been for the club/Tifosy to clarify this up front given its an identical offer to to Norwich Bond! | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 10:26 - Oct 7 with 3911 views | dannyblue |
Page 25 of the prospectus suggests the 3% is taxable.
"3% interest per annum (before tax) payable in the form of credit to be used at the Club (“Club Credit}”"
Page 33 confirms it.
"Interest, including cash interest and Club Credit interest, paid on the QPR Bonds is subject to income tax and 20% will be deducted at source unless held in an IFISA or paid to a corporate entity. The QPR Bond is a corporate bond and is eligible for the personal savings allowance. It is your responsibility to report the interest on your tax return as appropriate and pay or reclaim any tax that may be due." | | | |
| The Bond Scheme on 10:39 - Oct 7 with 3875 views | superhoopdownunder |
I bought £1,000 worth this morning.
I was going to invest more and then my wife reminded me of the QPR shares I bought all those years ago....
I hope this turns out to be a better investment.
U R's | | | |
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