| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... 09:24 - Apr 12 with 12531 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
So this morning a KH interview on Rev 96.2 was saying how if we stay up this year, we will be in a relegation battle next season!
This along with the punching above our weight comments, Tuesday being a 'free hit' and constant reference to our budget, do you think the players are being a ready made excuse?
At no point this season has KH taken any responsibility for the position we are in and has shown blatant paranoia in calling out a specific fan and during pie-gate.
This is a genuine question, does it inspire anybody and I am at a lost to work out what KH is trying to gain from these comments or is it just self preservation?
I cant imagine KH does any person scouting at games and has a pretty nice 9 til 1 job, Graham Barrow, Paul Simpson, John Coleman or Steve Eyre could have served up what we have seen for most of this season, so when (if ever) do you think KH will be pulled up for this uninspiring clap trap?
Do I think KH should be sacked, absolutely not, do I want to hear a rally cry of how mistakes have been made and what the plan is to at least try and improve next season, a massive YES.
Come on Hilly, come out and be honest, do you not like the job anymore, are you fed up because no other club would touch you with a barge pole?
I can get moaned at for free at home, you are taking the joy out of watching Dale. |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:40 - Apr 14 with 2124 views | Ninco |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:29 - Apr 14 by 442Dale |
There is some over the top stuff and it is quickly addressed by others. Constructive criticism is not negativity, which is what my previous post was. [Post edited 14 Apr 2018 11:30]
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Not everybody interprets things posted on here or said at the match the same though. For example, I have autism and I know several other people who attend Dale matches have it to. To anyone else at the game, they wouldn't know that we have it as there are no visible signs. Now if a fan was to shout out a negative comment, but intended it as a joke, how do you think we would interpret it? If any of the players have the same condition, they would interpret it the same.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if what you are about to say may hurt someone's feelings, it's best not to say it. I've never once seen a manager change tactics because someone in the crowd called a player useless or said that the tactics were useless, so what's the point in saying it? |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:53 - Apr 14 with 2101 views | YouTubeDale |
I am still very much behind Keith and it is obvious he has got the backing of the board, the fans (90%),and most importantly, the players. You can see that with the way the players approach each game with passion.
But if you see a fault, something that can be put right, then bring it to the fore. It’s too easy to say that is moaning. But it is an attempt to improve things. You have got to improve things constantly or you will fail.
It’s not good enough if our manager allows opposition strikers to go unmarked. We shouldn’t accept that. Hendo being offside far too many times isn’t acceptable. We are wasting opportunities. Why should Keith allow this week after week? Raff and Done crossing the ball into the stands isn’t good enough. They have the skill to do much, much better. But Keith still tolerates it. And so on, and so on.
Say what you see. We should question every aspect of the club as fans. I am not saying we will all agree on what is going wrong, but don’t be afraid of speaking out.
In general, I think we are playing really good football. My beef is, we could be doing even better.
If we keep up this form to the end of the season I think we can scrape out of this mess.
Exciting ??
You bet it is !!!!!!
Up the Dale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:53 - Apr 14 with 2099 views | 442Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:40 - Apr 14 by Ninco |
Not everybody interprets things posted on here or said at the match the same though. For example, I have autism and I know several other people who attend Dale matches have it to. To anyone else at the game, they wouldn't know that we have it as there are no visible signs. Now if a fan was to shout out a negative comment, but intended it as a joke, how do you think we would interpret it? If any of the players have the same condition, they would interpret it the same.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if what you are about to say may hurt someone's feelings, it's best not to say it. I've never once seen a manager change tactics because someone in the crowd called a player useless or said that the tactics were useless, so what's the point in saying it? |
Agree entirely that it’s up to an individual how they respond to any praise or criticism, something Hill himself probably says when doing either to his players during games/in the dressing room/in the media (Rafferty and McGahey after Portsmouth were mentioned by name).
This forum is a very good outlet for supporters to discuss their club though. |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 12:16 - Apr 14 with 2068 views | tony_roch975 |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:22 - Apr 14 by 442Dale |
As has been mentioned a lot before, there is very little negativity from fans, especially at games when the support has been really good when you consider our results. Hill himself has commented on it more than once too.
What there is amongst some is a desire for us to accept we could have done better and assess why this hasn’t been the case. I’ll maintain that despite the mistakes made during recruiting players last summer and the overall quality of our squad, we shouldn’t be in this position with the resources we have available. It is not unrealistic to expect us to be lower mid-table by now (around where Blackpool are), and that’s before we actually assess the overall quality of sides in the division.
Nobody assumes Hill can produce a side that can compete against clubs with much bigger budgets. We know he can. |
But that is exactly what is unrealistic - given the money we spend we'd be lucky to be mid-table in the Conference. Being in League 2 is over-achieving!! Assuming Hill will always be able to find the magic touch to produce a team which vastly overachieves is understandable (I do it too) but that doesn't change the fact it is unrealistic. The fact that Hill's teams also try to play exciting, passing football and try to win, rather than the usual shut-up-shop of weaker sides, is even more amazing - I'm fortunate to have such an entertaining side to support. | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 12:30 - Apr 14 with 2051 views | 442Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 12:16 - Apr 14 by tony_roch975 |
But that is exactly what is unrealistic - given the money we spend we'd be lucky to be mid-table in the Conference. Being in League 2 is over-achieving!! Assuming Hill will always be able to find the magic touch to produce a team which vastly overachieves is understandable (I do it too) but that doesn't change the fact it is unrealistic. The fact that Hill's teams also try to play exciting, passing football and try to win, rather than the usual shut-up-shop of weaker sides, is even more amazing - I'm fortunate to have such an entertaining side to support. |
It’s be unrealistic if we hadn’t already shown that we can compete at this level, both in individual games as seen this season and over entire campaigns as seen in the past. Any realistic Dale fan knew we’d eventually have a season of struggle, within that though there’s no reason to say where we could have been better. You make an excellent point about the focus on trying to win games, it’s always been our strength. Which is exactly why games earlier on in the season - like Blackpool and Wimbledon were so frustrating. That wasn’t us being the Dale we know.
You can bet Hill and his players are disappointed they’re in the position they are and will fully believe they could and should have been better both individually and collectively. | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:02 - Apr 14 with 1994 views | 1mark1 |
Surely this is the type of place along with other social media platforms that fans should be able to state their opinions good, bad and indifferent to all things concerning the Dale. I would say that if anyone connected to the Club doesn’t wish to see opinions from fans, then they are better off avoiding such forums or platforms. Better any constructive criticism is done on here than on the terraces or stands.
Edit or indeed any type of criticism. [Post edited 14 Apr 2018 14:17]
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:29 - Apr 14 with 1966 views | 442Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:02 - Apr 14 by 1mark1 |
Surely this is the type of place along with other social media platforms that fans should be able to state their opinions good, bad and indifferent to all things concerning the Dale. I would say that if anyone connected to the Club doesn’t wish to see opinions from fans, then they are better off avoiding such forums or platforms. Better any constructive criticism is done on here than on the terraces or stands.
Edit or indeed any type of criticism. [Post edited 14 Apr 2018 14:17]
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Indeed. It's a place for typical Dale fans to gather, express their feelings and thoughts before taking carriages home. | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:34 - Apr 14 with 1955 views | 1mark1 |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:29 - Apr 14 by 442Dale |
Indeed. It's a place for typical Dale fans to gather, express their feelings and thoughts before taking carriages home. |
Also if done on here or another SM platform, maybe less likely to be done on terraces or in the stands, before the carriages come . | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:37 - Apr 14 with 1950 views | SunningDale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:53 - Apr 14 by YouTubeDale |
I am still very much behind Keith and it is obvious he has got the backing of the board, the fans (90%),and most importantly, the players. You can see that with the way the players approach each game with passion.
But if you see a fault, something that can be put right, then bring it to the fore. It’s too easy to say that is moaning. But it is an attempt to improve things. You have got to improve things constantly or you will fail.
It’s not good enough if our manager allows opposition strikers to go unmarked. We shouldn’t accept that. Hendo being offside far too many times isn’t acceptable. We are wasting opportunities. Why should Keith allow this week after week? Raff and Done crossing the ball into the stands isn’t good enough. They have the skill to do much, much better. But Keith still tolerates it. And so on, and so on.
Say what you see. We should question every aspect of the club as fans. I am not saying we will all agree on what is going wrong, but don’t be afraid of speaking out.
In general, I think we are playing really good football. My beef is, we could be doing even better.
If we keep up this form to the end of the season I think we can scrape out of this mess.
Exciting ??
You bet it is !!!!!!
Up the Dale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
But Hill isn't 'allowing' the players to make mistakes, or coaching them to do so. What is he expected to do if Hendo gets caught offside or Rafferty shanks a cross? Immediately yank them off? Drop them for the next game? Put them on the transfer list? He can only do so much. Most of our players are at 'Dale and at our level of football because they make mistakes, leave players unmarked, miss chances, etc. I'm sure Hill is just as aware and frustrated at their shortcomings as everybody else, but his scope to change anything is limited. To say he is allowing opposition strikers to go unmarked is ludicrous and if you truly believe this how can you say you're behind him? | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:48 - Apr 14 with 1921 views | 442Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:37 - Apr 14 by SunningDale |
But Hill isn't 'allowing' the players to make mistakes, or coaching them to do so. What is he expected to do if Hendo gets caught offside or Rafferty shanks a cross? Immediately yank them off? Drop them for the next game? Put them on the transfer list? He can only do so much. Most of our players are at 'Dale and at our level of football because they make mistakes, leave players unmarked, miss chances, etc. I'm sure Hill is just as aware and frustrated at their shortcomings as everybody else, but his scope to change anything is limited. To say he is allowing opposition strikers to go unmarked is ludicrous and if you truly believe this how can you say you're behind him? |
Put me in that camp too. There's only so much Hill can control. Recruitment, selections, tactics are one thing, but he can't play the game for the players too. | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 15:00 - Apr 14 with 1909 views | D_Alien |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:48 - Apr 14 by 442Dale |
Put me in that camp too. There's only so much Hill can control. Recruitment, selections, tactics are one thing, but he can't play the game for the players too. |
But what he could avoid is using media opportunities to criticise his players, which he does both individually and collectively
It's ok for him to ask supporters to avoid negativity which might affect players, but he could set an example by not doing so himself
[Post edited 14 Apr 2018 15:02]
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 15:40 - Apr 14 with 1860 views | DorsetDale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:02 - Apr 14 by Ninco |
In any job, people make mistakes, and it's only natural that when your boss calls you in to the office to discuss those mistakes, you go on the defensive. You have your reputation and professional pride to think about and you look for reasons to justify why you didn't get it right while trying not to take the blame yourself. Keith Hill is no different and if he was to publicly take the blame for those mistakes, it would be giving ammunition to the directors for if and when they do ever decide that it's time to replace him.
I don't for one minute believe that any of the players, coaching staff, management or directors deliberately set out to lose or play badly, and I think to some extent, the expectations of the fans is too high. We have one of the lowest budgets in the league, and yes, I agree with Hill that we are massively punching above our weight. With the players we can afford, we don't have the right to be in league 1 but we got there, and we shouldn't just sit back and assume that we have a right to stay there. We are competing against clubs with big budgets, so why do people assume that KH or any other manager has the ability to beat someone who has spent a lot more than we can afford?
We need to take a reality check. We have players who aren't good enough for this level, but that's not because KH made bad signings, it's because it's all we can afford. Those players do as best as they can while being outclassed by more expensive players so why do some people think it's acceptable to have a go at those players, either on here or at the match, when they are just trying to do their best?
Maybe if there wasn't such negativity from fans towards players and management, they would feel more encouraged to do better and we wouldn't be in the position we are now. Get behind them or if you want to moan, go and watch someone else. |
Every club in every division has players "not good enough for this league", the majority of which play in reserve sides and are on stand by in case of injuries, suspensions etc whereby, if they are lucky, may find themselves filling the last place on the bench.
The difference here is that due to Hill and the management, Dale are able to attract players that could earn better rewards elsewhere, but, due to the Dale philosophy, whatever that selling point is, come here. | |
| YOU do not have the right to give someone else permission to tell me what I can and can't do. |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 19:26 - Apr 14 with 1767 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:53 - Apr 14 by YouTubeDale |
I am still very much behind Keith and it is obvious he has got the backing of the board, the fans (90%),and most importantly, the players. You can see that with the way the players approach each game with passion.
But if you see a fault, something that can be put right, then bring it to the fore. It’s too easy to say that is moaning. But it is an attempt to improve things. You have got to improve things constantly or you will fail.
It’s not good enough if our manager allows opposition strikers to go unmarked. We shouldn’t accept that. Hendo being offside far too many times isn’t acceptable. We are wasting opportunities. Why should Keith allow this week after week? Raff and Done crossing the ball into the stands isn’t good enough. They have the skill to do much, much better. But Keith still tolerates it. And so on, and so on.
Say what you see. We should question every aspect of the club as fans. I am not saying we will all agree on what is going wrong, but don’t be afraid of speaking out.
In general, I think we are playing really good football. My beef is, we could be doing even better.
If we keep up this form to the end of the season I think we can scrape out of this mess.
Exciting ??
You bet it is !!!!!!
Up the Dale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Fab post.
Fab result today :-)
Just a bit more care and it all could have been so different.
If the team had performed as well as the fans, we'd be home and dry now, I just wish KH appreciated what he has/had a bit more. | |
| Everything thats been, has past. The answers in the looking glass! |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 19:32 - Apr 14 with 1747 views | AlexF |
this is a really simple debate - compare Keith Hill's record at Rochdale with any other manager in our history, if you're not a fan after that, you just dont understand. Its hard being a Dale fan, i've over 50 years as a fan to say that. All i can say is, as a professional, how trying, testing and depressing must it be to build a new team every season from non-league and loanees, mould them, push them to perform then see your successes leave and have to start all over again for the next season. We are very lucky to have Keith Hill, warts, imperfections an' all. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... (n/t) on 19:35 - Apr 14 with 1737 views | BartRowou |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 19:32 - Apr 14 by AlexF |
this is a really simple debate - compare Keith Hill's record at Rochdale with any other manager in our history, if you're not a fan after that, you just dont understand. Its hard being a Dale fan, i've over 50 years as a fan to say that. All i can say is, as a professional, how trying, testing and depressing must it be to build a new team every season from non-league and loanees, mould them, push them to perform then see your successes leave and have to start all over again for the next season. We are very lucky to have Keith Hill, warts, imperfections an' all. |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 19:57 - Apr 14 with 1690 views | JimmyRustler |
This argument has been done to death and it's getting boring. Put simply, if there are any fans that aren't behind KH even if we do end up going down then they're either simple or their heart and head really isn't in it. However, the guy deserves criticism when he gets things wrong and whilst he should get some leeway because of what he's achieved in the past, this doesn't give him a free pass to be absolved of all blame or to act like a bellend. It really is that simple |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 20:02 - Apr 14 with 1668 views | aleanddale |
Keith Hill is mercurial though.
Best fit as a manager I have seen at Dale in over 35 years watching.
warts and all - In his words....... its like a marriage. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 21:33 - Apr 14 with 1599 views | pioneer |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 19:32 - Apr 14 by AlexF |
this is a really simple debate - compare Keith Hill's record at Rochdale with any other manager in our history, if you're not a fan after that, you just dont understand. Its hard being a Dale fan, i've over 50 years as a fan to say that. All i can say is, as a professional, how trying, testing and depressing must it be to build a new team every season from non-league and loanees, mould them, push them to perform then see your successes leave and have to start all over again for the next season. We are very lucky to have Keith Hill, warts, imperfections an' all. |
I think if you go back to the 1920s you will find one with a better record. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 01:02 - Apr 15 with 1496 views | TVOS1907 |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:53 - Apr 14 by YouTubeDale |
I am still very much behind Keith and it is obvious he has got the backing of the board, the fans (90%),and most importantly, the players. You can see that with the way the players approach each game with passion.
But if you see a fault, something that can be put right, then bring it to the fore. It’s too easy to say that is moaning. But it is an attempt to improve things. You have got to improve things constantly or you will fail.
It’s not good enough if our manager allows opposition strikers to go unmarked. We shouldn’t accept that. Hendo being offside far too many times isn’t acceptable. We are wasting opportunities. Why should Keith allow this week after week? Raff and Done crossing the ball into the stands isn’t good enough. They have the skill to do much, much better. But Keith still tolerates it. And so on, and so on.
Say what you see. We should question every aspect of the club as fans. I am not saying we will all agree on what is going wrong, but don’t be afraid of speaking out.
In general, I think we are playing really good football. My beef is, we could be doing even better.
If we keep up this form to the end of the season I think we can scrape out of this mess.
Exciting ??
You bet it is !!!!!!
Up the Dale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
So what you’re saying is that Hill allows opposition strikers to go unmarked. He actually tells the likes of McNulty to not bother marking Brett Pitman.
Wow!! |  |
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