| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... 09:24 - Apr 12 with 12553 views | SteTsGoldenBoot |
So this morning a KH interview on Rev 96.2 was saying how if we stay up this year, we will be in a relegation battle next season!
This along with the punching above our weight comments, Tuesday being a 'free hit' and constant reference to our budget, do you think the players are being a ready made excuse?
At no point this season has KH taken any responsibility for the position we are in and has shown blatant paranoia in calling out a specific fan and during pie-gate.
This is a genuine question, does it inspire anybody and I am at a lost to work out what KH is trying to gain from these comments or is it just self preservation?
I cant imagine KH does any person scouting at games and has a pretty nice 9 til 1 job, Graham Barrow, Paul Simpson, John Coleman or Steve Eyre could have served up what we have seen for most of this season, so when (if ever) do you think KH will be pulled up for this uninspiring clap trap?
Do I think KH should be sacked, absolutely not, do I want to hear a rally cry of how mistakes have been made and what the plan is to at least try and improve next season, a massive YES.
Come on Hilly, come out and be honest, do you not like the job anymore, are you fed up because no other club would touch you with a barge pole?
I can get moaned at for free at home, you are taking the joy out of watching Dale. |  |
| Everything thats been, has past. The answers in the looking glass! |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 21:12 - Apr 12 with 3122 views | mikehunt |
Pre-Wigan, on Manchester Radio, Russ was interviewed and he said that, if we go down, we will stick to a Division 1 budget to compete with the big budget teams in that division. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 00:08 - Apr 13 with 2946 views | pioneer |
So this morning a KH interview on Rev 96.2 was saying how if we stay up this year, we will be in a relegation battle next season!
"This along with the punching above our weight comments, Tuesday being a 'free hit' and constant reference to our budget, do you think the players are being a ready made excuse?
At no point this season has KH taken any responsibility for the position we are in and has shown blatant paranoia in calling out a specific fan and during pie-gate.
This is a genuine question, does it inspire anybody and I am at a lost to work out what KH is trying to gain from these comments or is it just self preservation? "
Sounds like he has just launched next seasons season ticket drive. This year has been bad and don't expect better next year, just put down your deposits and grin and bear it. Thanks Keith. |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 00:55 - Apr 13 with 2934 views | Daley_Lama |
Forget next years relegation struggle.
This years relegation struggle is ace! Despite a thrashing by Wigan, the great escape is still on and our team is fighting and playing well.
Last time we left L1 we went the way bury have gone, with barely a middle finger.
Looking forward to the remaining games, should be fun. |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 07:49 - Apr 13 with 2857 views | dingdangblue |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 00:55 - Apr 13 by Daley_Lama |
Forget next years relegation struggle.
This years relegation struggle is ace! Despite a thrashing by Wigan, the great escape is still on and our team is fighting and playing well.
Last time we left L1 we went the way bury have gone, with barely a middle finger.
Looking forward to the remaining games, should be fun. |
One thing to note, if you believe in history and trends. 3 times we've gained promotion we've done it finishing 3rd, the 3 times we've been relegated we've finished rock bottom - this is surely bury's honour this season - if we're not rock bottom we don't go down! You can't argue with history!  |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 09:01 - Apr 13 with 2809 views | kiwidale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 07:49 - Apr 13 by dingdangblue |
One thing to note, if you believe in history and trends. 3 times we've gained promotion we've done it finishing 3rd, the 3 times we've been relegated we've finished rock bottom - this is surely bury's honour this season - if we're not rock bottom we don't go down! You can't argue with history! |
How many times have we been relegated? | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 09:32 - Apr 13 with 2782 views | electricblue |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 21:12 - Apr 12 by mikehunt |
Pre-Wigan, on Manchester Radio, Russ was interviewed and he said that, if we go down, we will stick to a Division 1 budget to compete with the big budget teams in that division. |
That is good to hear if its true.... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 10:07 - Apr 13 with 2738 views | dingdangblue |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 09:01 - Apr 13 by kiwidale |
How many times have we been relegated? |
3 times.
1958/59 - after the league changed to 4 divisions from division 3 North and South we had been placed in the 3rd division due to our previous league finish. We got relegated the 1st season to division 4.
1973/74 - we finished bottom with a record points tally of 21 points (2 wins all season).
2011/12 - Eyrehead and Colemanballsup | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 10:38 - Apr 13 with 2699 views | FalingeParka |
It is plain to see KH has backed himself into a corner with the 'budget' thing becoming a mantra. Totally understandable really - managing Rochdale must seem like trying to put go faster stripes on a Morris Marina at times.
As supporters, I'd say we should back him 1000%, even when he makes mistakes. He's a smart guy who gets it and we should forgive him his silliness, born out of frustration, when he speaks out of turn. We are all silly at the end of the day. This guy, however, unlike most in our careers if we are honest, has made a silk purse (sometimes) out of a sow's flaps.
This is not a call to anyone not to criticise btw. Go for it. In fact, next post I'll join in big style. |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:03 - Apr 13 with 2638 views | soulboy |
On an earlier post someone said if we go down its because of our Aug - Dec form. I disagree, what could really cost us are the seven homes games starting with Oxford in mid Dec and only getting five points. None of those teams were in the top half, with the possible exception of Blackpool. |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 13:17 - Apr 13 with 2529 views | JimmyRustler |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:03 - Apr 13 by soulboy |
On an earlier post someone said if we go down its because of our Aug - Dec form. I disagree, what could really cost us are the seven homes games starting with Oxford in mid Dec and only getting five points. None of those teams were in the top half, with the possible exception of Blackpool. |
Poor game management will be what relegates us IMO. Look at how many goals we've conceded/points we've surrendered after the 85th minute. It's borderline criminal |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 13:45 - Apr 13 with 2489 views | DaleiLama |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 13:17 - Apr 13 by JimmyRustler |
Poor game management will be what relegates us IMO. Look at how many goals we've conceded/points we've surrendered after the 85th minute. It's borderline criminal |
................ and a much lower than normal conversion rate for chances created (for a KH side).
EDIT (no one had replied at time of edit but I know how touchy the edit can be) Wigan scored 81, Dale 44. Goes some way to explaining Tuesday and means we need 26 in the last 6 games to get to Hilly's normal target of 70 goals/season.
EDIT 2 But I also still think we have a better chance of staying up than going down as of now (if we keep playing like we have been and don't go into a funk) [Post edited 13 Apr 2018 13:50]
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:30 - Apr 13 with 2427 views | Nigeriamark |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 13:45 - Apr 13 by DaleiLama |
................ and a much lower than normal conversion rate for chances created (for a KH side).
EDIT (no one had replied at time of edit but I know how touchy the edit can be) Wigan scored 81, Dale 44. Goes some way to explaining Tuesday and means we need 26 in the last 6 games to get to Hilly's normal target of 70 goals/season.
EDIT 2 But I also still think we have a better chance of staying up than going down as of now (if we keep playing like we have been and don't go into a funk) [Post edited 13 Apr 2018 13:50]
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Not sure it is better than 50/50. We are in form but Oldham & Dons have easier games. Those 3 home games in a row will decide our fate. Hope we stop getting these "useful draws" as ultimately it will be too many of these that send us down |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:38 - Apr 13 with 2421 views | DaleiLama |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:30 - Apr 13 by Nigeriamark |
Not sure it is better than 50/50. We are in form but Oldham & Dons have easier games. Those 3 home games in a row will decide our fate. Hope we stop getting these "useful draws" as ultimately it will be too many of these that send us down |
We're 3 points behind Oldham with a better goal difference. We have to beat Oldham and do as well as them in the other 5 games. DDB kindly posted the form table for the last 10 games. I rate our chances better than 50:50. If we play like we can.
Edit: DDB data copy/pasted below
Last 10 games:
GP W D L GF GA GD Pts 2.5+
1 Blackburn 10 8 2 0 19 5 +14 26 60%
2 Plymouth 10 8 1 1 20 9 +11 25 50%
3 Wigan Athletic 10 7 2 1 25 9 +16 23 70%
4 Shrewsbury 10 6 2 2 15 10 +5 20 40%
5 Fleetwood 10 5 3 2 13 7 +6 18 20%
6 Peterborough 10 4 4 2 15 10 +5 16 40%
7 Rochdale 10 4 4 2 15 12 +3 16 40%
8 Rotherham 10 5 1 4 16 14 +2 16 60%
9 Portsmouth 10 5 1 4 16 15 +1 16 70%
10 Oldham 10 4 4 2 12 12 0 16 50%
11 Blackpool 10 4 3 3 15 9 +6 15 50%
12 Charlton 10 4 2 4 13 11 +2 14 40%
13 Doncaster 10 3 4 3 14 13 +1 13 60%
14 Southend Utd 10 3 4 3 10 10 0 13 40%
15 Bristol Rovers 10 3 4 3 12 13 -1 13 30%
16 Milton Keynes 10 3 3 4 11 15 -4 12 60%
17 Wimbledon 10 3 3 4 9 13 -4 12 30%
18 Gillingham 10 2 4 4 8 12 -4 10 50%
19 Walsall 10 2 2 6 7 14 -7 8 50%
20 Scunthorpe 10 0 7 3 13 17 -4 7 50%
21 Oxford Utd 10 1 3 6 7 15 -8 6 50%
22 Bury 10 1 2 7 6 15 -9 5 40%
23 Bradford 10 1 2 7 5 20 -15 5 40%
24 Northampton 10 0 4 6 5 20 -15 4 5 [Post edited 13 Apr 2018 14:41]
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:55 - Apr 13 with 2384 views | Yorkshire_Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 20:50 - Apr 12 by 442Dale |
The club as a whole should learn lessons around PR from this season.
For that to happen there has to be a collective responsibility to look at themselves and ask if things could be better.
Like it or not, the club has come across very badly in the media at times this year, that should be of concern to anyone at Spotland. |
Can a Football Club wobble it's head?
That's what is needed. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 15:11 - Apr 13 with 2366 views | dingdangblue |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 14:38 - Apr 13 by DaleiLama |
We're 3 points behind Oldham with a better goal difference. We have to beat Oldham and do as well as them in the other 5 games. DDB kindly posted the form table for the last 10 games. I rate our chances better than 50:50. If we play like we can.
Edit: DDB data copy/pasted below
Last 10 games:
GP W D L GF GA GD Pts 2.5+
1 Blackburn 10 8 2 0 19 5 +14 26 60%
2 Plymouth 10 8 1 1 20 9 +11 25 50%
3 Wigan Athletic 10 7 2 1 25 9 +16 23 70%
4 Shrewsbury 10 6 2 2 15 10 +5 20 40%
5 Fleetwood 10 5 3 2 13 7 +6 18 20%
6 Peterborough 10 4 4 2 15 10 +5 16 40%
7 Rochdale 10 4 4 2 15 12 +3 16 40%
8 Rotherham 10 5 1 4 16 14 +2 16 60%
9 Portsmouth 10 5 1 4 16 15 +1 16 70%
10 Oldham 10 4 4 2 12 12 0 16 50%
11 Blackpool 10 4 3 3 15 9 +6 15 50%
12 Charlton 10 4 2 4 13 11 +2 14 40%
13 Doncaster 10 3 4 3 14 13 +1 13 60%
14 Southend Utd 10 3 4 3 10 10 0 13 40%
15 Bristol Rovers 10 3 4 3 12 13 -1 13 30%
16 Milton Keynes 10 3 3 4 11 15 -4 12 60%
17 Wimbledon 10 3 3 4 9 13 -4 12 30%
18 Gillingham 10 2 4 4 8 12 -4 10 50%
19 Walsall 10 2 2 6 7 14 -7 8 50%
20 Scunthorpe 10 0 7 3 13 17 -4 7 50%
21 Oxford Utd 10 1 3 6 7 15 -8 6 50%
22 Bury 10 1 2 7 6 15 -9 5 40%
23 Bradford 10 1 2 7 5 20 -15 5 40%
24 Northampton 10 0 4 6 5 20 -15 4 5 [Post edited 13 Apr 2018 14:41]
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If you take it down to the last 6 games:
Last 6 matches (HOME AND AWAY)
GP W D L GF GA GD Pts 2.5+
1 Wigan Athletic 6 5 0 1 18 4 +14 15 83%
2 Fleetwood 6 5 0 1 10 3 +7 15 17%
3 Blackburn 6 4 2 0 10 3 +7 14 50%
4 Portsmouth 6 4 1 1 12 7 +5 13 67%
5 Plymouth 6 4 1 1 11 6 +5 13 50%
6 Charlton 6 3 2 1 10 3 +7 11 33%
7 Doncaster 6 3 2 1 8 3 +5 11 50%
8 Shrewsbury 6 3 2 1 8 7 +1 11 50%
9 Milton Keynes 6 3 1 2 9 11 -2 10 83%
10 Blackpool 6 2 2 2 11 5 +6 8 67%
11 Peterborough 6 2 2 2 7 6 +1 8 33%
12 Southend Utd 6 2 2 2 7 6 +1 8 33%
13 Wimbledon 6 2 2 2 5 5 0 8 17%
14 Rochdale 6 2 2 2 10 11 -1 8 50%
15 Rotherham 6 2 1 3 10 11 -1 7 67%
16 Bristol Rovers 6 1 3 2 7 9 -2 6 33%
17 Oldham 6 1 3 2 5 9 -4 6 50%
18 Oxford Utd 6 1 2 3 5 9 -4 5 50%
19 Gillingham 6 1 2 3 4 8 -4 5 50%
20 Scunthorpe 6 0 4 2 7 10 -3 4 33%
21 Walsall 6 1 1 4 2 10 -8 4 33%
22 Bradford 6 1 1 4 1 10 -9 4 17%
23 Northampton 6 0 1 5 1 15 -14 1 50%
24 Bury 6 0 0 6 2 10 -8 0 33%
Our form compared to Peterborough is identical - tomorrow should be a good contest but it's a ground where we've had not much success down the years. Our last chance of doing a league double over any team this season.
Our form compared to Oldham is slightly better - Tuesday we really need to make home advantage count - a win would be an incredible boost at this stage and a loss doesn't bear thinking about.
Bradford - despite their league position of mid table/outside chance of playoffs they are on an awful run of form - we need to capitalise on this.
Plymouth - the form team of 2018 going from relegation to promotion candidates - our toughest game in my opinion so hopefully we've won a couple before then.
Oxford - another team out of form - hoping we secure safety on this day.
Charlton - could be still in with a shout of the play offs or could have nothing to play for - hopefully it's the latter along with ourselves!
6 games to savour (hopefully not suffer).
Up the Dale. [Post edited 13 Apr 2018 15:50]
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 15:56 - Apr 13 with 2305 views | funkkk |
Doesn't seem to get any easier does it. A point on Saturday followed by a win on Tuesday should hopefully take us out of the relegation zone. Staying out might be the real tricky part. |  | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 21:30 - Apr 13 with 2098 views | kiwidale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 15:56 - Apr 13 by funkkk |
Doesn't seem to get any easier does it. A point on Saturday followed by a win on Tuesday should hopefully take us out of the relegation zone. Staying out might be the real tricky part. |
I'm not convinced that will be the case surely we have got to the point where every game is a must win? | |
| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 22:01 - Apr 13 with 2057 views | cumbria_dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 21:30 - Apr 13 by kiwidale |
I'm not convinced that will be the case surely we have got to the point where every game is a must win? |
Looking back over the last 10 seasons in league one, 50 points has always been the total to guarantee safety - a couple of times on goal difference - but 50 points none the less.
It does sound improbable looking at the table right now with a bunch of team already only one or two wins away from that total, but as has been mentioned already, several are playing each other (us and biffos included). Despite that, I still think 51pts will be the safety mark this year. So that's three wins from the next 6.
So whilst every game being a must-win is a great psychological goal - the truth is, every other game is a must-win. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 07:26 - Apr 14 with 1882 views | rochedale |
Pretty sure this is KH ‘managing expectations’, I would also be sure he lets his players know that also. |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 07:35 - Apr 14 with 1870 views | rochedale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 13:12 - Apr 12 by ColDale |
Thought the same. He's said this every season no matter whereabouts in the league that we've been. That's the reality of playing at the level we are. I know people don't like the underachieving line, but without Hilly, we'd finish bottom as proved back in 2011-12. With Hilly, we've always got a fighting chance to the extent where he's probably worth at least 12 league places on average.
If we go down, it's because of August to December. We don't need Hilly to come out and publicly admit it, the proof is in his decisions such as the exclusion of Reece Brown, and the failed gamble of Jordan Slew. Even more so with how he handled the January transfer window.
Wrongs were put right, and arguably since Donny away in the FA Cup, we've played like the old Dale, and certainly recently, performances have been of a standard that if replicated throughout the full season would have seen us challenging for the top six. Missed the Wigan game on Tuesday but there's only Blackpool at home that I'd have called "poor" in 2018. Even the missed opportunities such as MK Dons and Wimbledon at home saw sufficient chances for us to be three or four goals to the good at half time, even if the second halves didn't back that up.
We may well have left ourselves with too much to do. Make no mistake, our players will be both mentally and physically exhausted right now as there's been little rotation over the past few weeks when we've played 17 games in just 66 days. The only thing which will see them home is mental ability, and from the outside, it looks like KH is looking to do that. Things like calling Tuesday a free hit is all part of that. Had he talked about a "huge lost opportunity" with the Wigan game, it would have left the players demoralised. He may well be trying to kid them, but his message is that we did not need to win that game to stay up. I doubt that would have been his message before the game but as soon as that game finished, it was all eyes on Peterborough away and getting the right mindset within the squad to prevent them hitting the wall. |
Exactly this. | |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 10:16 - Apr 14 with 1757 views | aleanddale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 21:30 - Apr 13 by kiwidale |
I'm not convinced that will be the case surely we have got to the point where every game is a must win? |
Nah - match or better Oldham and MK today - followed by a win Tuesday would take us out of the relegation zone.
18 points to play for - come on the Dale!! | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:02 - Apr 14 with 1707 views | Ninco |
In any job, people make mistakes, and it's only natural that when your boss calls you in to the office to discuss those mistakes, you go on the defensive. You have your reputation and professional pride to think about and you look for reasons to justify why you didn't get it right while trying not to take the blame yourself. Keith Hill is no different and if he was to publicly take the blame for those mistakes, it would be giving ammunition to the directors for if and when they do ever decide that it's time to replace him.
I don't for one minute believe that any of the players, coaching staff, management or directors deliberately set out to lose or play badly, and I think to some extent, the expectations of the fans is too high. We have one of the lowest budgets in the league, and yes, I agree with Hill that we are massively punching above our weight. With the players we can afford, we don't have the right to be in league 1 but we got there, and we shouldn't just sit back and assume that we have a right to stay there. We are competing against clubs with big budgets, so why do people assume that KH or any other manager has the ability to beat someone who has spent a lot more than we can afford?
We need to take a reality check. We have players who aren't good enough for this level, but that's not because KH made bad signings, it's because it's all we can afford. Those players do as best as they can while being outclassed by more expensive players so why do some people think it's acceptable to have a go at those players, either on here or at the match, when they are just trying to do their best?
Maybe if there wasn't such negativity from fans towards players and management, they would feel more encouraged to do better and we wouldn't be in the position we are now. Get behind them or if you want to moan, go and watch someone else. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:22 - Apr 14 with 1660 views | 442Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:02 - Apr 14 by Ninco |
In any job, people make mistakes, and it's only natural that when your boss calls you in to the office to discuss those mistakes, you go on the defensive. You have your reputation and professional pride to think about and you look for reasons to justify why you didn't get it right while trying not to take the blame yourself. Keith Hill is no different and if he was to publicly take the blame for those mistakes, it would be giving ammunition to the directors for if and when they do ever decide that it's time to replace him.
I don't for one minute believe that any of the players, coaching staff, management or directors deliberately set out to lose or play badly, and I think to some extent, the expectations of the fans is too high. We have one of the lowest budgets in the league, and yes, I agree with Hill that we are massively punching above our weight. With the players we can afford, we don't have the right to be in league 1 but we got there, and we shouldn't just sit back and assume that we have a right to stay there. We are competing against clubs with big budgets, so why do people assume that KH or any other manager has the ability to beat someone who has spent a lot more than we can afford?
We need to take a reality check. We have players who aren't good enough for this level, but that's not because KH made bad signings, it's because it's all we can afford. Those players do as best as they can while being outclassed by more expensive players so why do some people think it's acceptable to have a go at those players, either on here or at the match, when they are just trying to do their best?
Maybe if there wasn't such negativity from fans towards players and management, they would feel more encouraged to do better and we wouldn't be in the position we are now. Get behind them or if you want to moan, go and watch someone else. |
As has been mentioned a lot before, there is very little negativity from fans, especially at games when the support has been really good when you consider our results. Hill himself has commented on it more than once too.
What there is amongst some is a desire for us to accept we could have done better and assess why this hasn’t been the case. I’ll maintain that despite the mistakes made during recruiting players last summer and the overall quality of our squad, we shouldn’t be in this position with the resources we have available. It is not unrealistic to expect us to be lower mid-table by now (around where Blackpool are), and that’s before we actually assess the overall quality of sides in the division.
Nobody assumes Hill can produce a side that can compete against clubs with much bigger budgets. We know he can. |  |
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| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:26 - Apr 14 with 1649 views | Ninco |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:22 - Apr 14 by 442Dale |
As has been mentioned a lot before, there is very little negativity from fans, especially at games when the support has been really good when you consider our results. Hill himself has commented on it more than once too.
What there is amongst some is a desire for us to accept we could have done better and assess why this hasn’t been the case. I’ll maintain that despite the mistakes made during recruiting players last summer and the overall quality of our squad, we shouldn’t be in this position with the resources we have available. It is not unrealistic to expect us to be lower mid-table by now (around where Blackpool are), and that’s before we actually assess the overall quality of sides in the division.
Nobody assumes Hill can produce a side that can compete against clubs with much bigger budgets. We know he can. |
I disagree. Whilst there is not so much negativity at games, there is a lot on this forum and for me, that is no different. I am sure that players and managers will read some of what is posted on here and there will be some players who will take it to heart. | | | |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:29 - Apr 14 with 1641 views | 442Dale |
| Next Years Relegation Struggle....... on 11:26 - Apr 14 by Ninco |
I disagree. Whilst there is not so much negativity at games, there is a lot on this forum and for me, that is no different. I am sure that players and managers will read some of what is posted on here and there will be some players who will take it to heart. |
There is some over the top stuff and it is quickly addressed by others. Constructive criticism is not negativity, which is what my previous post was. [Post edited 14 Apr 2018 11:30]
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