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The one thing I am certain of re this vote is that no-one knows for sure what the repercussions economically will be if we pull out. If you listen to the experts it will be better if we stay in, however its all unconvincing. My issue is that after 10 years of Austerity, the services in this country have been cut to the bone, that is services that are needed by us all - not just Immigrants/benefit spongers. We are not in a position to afford the enormous gamble if it all goes t1ts up. I am taking my lead from Ray Winston and gambling responsibly and staying in. If we ever get to situation when everything is adequately funded and horrible 0 hours contracts were abolished ... then maybe it might be worth the risk to pull out. But to do it now is a massive gamble which we just cannot afford to lose.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:18 - Jun 18 with 3229 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:06 - Jun 18 by Discodroids
Of course young people can vote how they want, they can put on a wig, a slash of red lipstick and mate with the beats that roam freely in the fields for all i care. As long as they dont castigate their elders for casting their vote with freedom .They have earned that right.
as for your hanky maureen quote , is it a reference to the Romanian encampment that i drove by at 6am this morning on a roundabout Near Chingford ??
. There Are many of these EU tourist attractions along the North circular hinterlands. One of the many benefits of being under the yoke of the EU is the unfettered freedom to witness a 17 stone Romanian defecate into a bucket under a bridge when taking the kids to school in your kia soul. Moreover , i think we should all listen and learn from the Pro EU chattering middleclasses that celebrate diversity by living in Epsom , While we Live cheek by jowl With people who enjoy washing their Blood orange shitted pants, in front of children at the local retail park. Or was it a reference to me hanging round schools again?
[Post edited 18 Jun 2016 11:11]
Oi Oi Disco, I love you to bits, but back off Epsom if you please mate
1
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:20 - Jun 18 with 3227 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:06 - Jun 18 by baz_qpr
Back to the OP these are my thoughts cut and paste from Facebook in response to someone else apologies if they offend.
Gotta say really worried the way this is going. The Brexit case is as if the Globalisation of the last 20 years never happened, as if capital cannot be shifted on a huge scale at the flick of a switch, or that populations all around the world are not moving around on an unprecedented scale not because of benefits but because they can through cheap global travel. In my view its completely delusional.
Do you honestly think any other country (other than China or Russia) whether in Europe or out wants to see us successfully leave. They want certainty and stability. They will make sure we are punished enough to slap down any other country from doing so, otherwise it all unravels. If we vote out it is in every other countries interest to punish us properly even if it costs them 5-8% of their overall export market. It will be needed to be seen that we suffer and don't thrive
Then we have the delusion that politicians actually have any power to control things. Mostly given away in the eighties and nineties free trade and globalisation deals. Only two or three countries / blocks are able to stand up to the corporate power of the Tata, Google, Amazon etc US, China, Russia and Europe.
Brexit will bring inflation, the pound will fall and trade tariffs will come into play,.
Inflation will either bring wage rises or fall in living standards.
The Bank of England will then raise interest rates to manage inflation as they are legally obliged to currently and given the recent historic lows of the last 8 years just a few percentage points will cripple the 25-45 year olds who have had to pay massively over the odds on housing (the profit which has gone yet again to the Babyboomers) Just a couple of percentage points is going to be a doubling of housing costs and that initself is going to push rents up. I genuinely think that people don't realise how flucked up and precarious our economic situation is especially with regards to housing and the economic policies of the last 8 years.
Finally a plea to the baby boomers the over 65's. This is not your referendum. Whatever your political views this is about your children and their children. Whatever the decision they will carry the cost / make the profit, lose or gain the opportunities / jobs etc. Please speak to them about the world / country they want. Its their future.
"They will make sure we are punished enough to slap down any other country from doing so, otherwise it all unravels. If we vote out it is in every other countries interest to punish us properly even if it costs them 5-8% of their overall export market. It will be needed to be seen that we suffer and don't thrive "
Is the club so inviting that people need to be scared into staying.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2016 11:26]
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:23 - Jun 18 with 3300 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:06 - Jun 18 by baz_qpr
Back to the OP these are my thoughts cut and paste from Facebook in response to someone else apologies if they offend.
Gotta say really worried the way this is going. The Brexit case is as if the Globalisation of the last 20 years never happened, as if capital cannot be shifted on a huge scale at the flick of a switch, or that populations all around the world are not moving around on an unprecedented scale not because of benefits but because they can through cheap global travel. In my view its completely delusional.
Do you honestly think any other country (other than China or Russia) whether in Europe or out wants to see us successfully leave. They want certainty and stability. They will make sure we are punished enough to slap down any other country from doing so, otherwise it all unravels. If we vote out it is in every other countries interest to punish us properly even if it costs them 5-8% of their overall export market. It will be needed to be seen that we suffer and don't thrive
Then we have the delusion that politicians actually have any power to control things. Mostly given away in the eighties and nineties free trade and globalisation deals. Only two or three countries / blocks are able to stand up to the corporate power of the Tata, Google, Amazon etc US, China, Russia and Europe.
Brexit will bring inflation, the pound will fall and trade tariffs will come into play,.
Inflation will either bring wage rises or fall in living standards.
The Bank of England will then raise interest rates to manage inflation as they are legally obliged to currently and given the recent historic lows of the last 8 years just a few percentage points will cripple the 25-45 year olds who have had to pay massively over the odds on housing (the profit which has gone yet again to the Babyboomers) Just a couple of percentage points is going to be a doubling of housing costs and that initself is going to push rents up. I genuinely think that people don't realise how flucked up and precarious our economic situation is especially with regards to housing and the economic policies of the last 8 years.
Finally a plea to the baby boomers the over 65's. This is not your referendum. Whatever your political views this is about your children and their children. Whatever the decision they will carry the cost / make the profit, lose or gain the opportunities / jobs etc. Please speak to them about the world / country they want. Its their future.
Whenever I read about other countries boycotting us or making life difficult and more expensive to punish us It reminds me of those fuel protests a few years back .
The plan was to boycott fuel brands one day a week to punish them . Monday BP , Tues Shell and so on .
All the targetted company had to do was drop their unleaded by a penny for one day and and their forecourts were rammed , everyone just thought about themselves and fck the "cause" .
If we have stuff to sell , goods or services , that others can make a profit for themselves by buying they will buy it and in return if they have anything decent to flog we will do the same ...tarriff free ... IMO
Its dog eat dog
[Post edited 18 Jun 2016 11:40]
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:39 - Jun 18 with 3284 views
After seeing blue signs saying that EU money (our taxes) had built roads in Spain, Portugal and Ireland a few years ago, and has no doubt since paid for infrastructure in many more as well. I am reluctant to see the same thing happen in Albania, Montenego, Serbia, Macedonia, Turkey etc.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:41 - Jun 18 with 3269 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:12 - Jun 18 by stevec
Danny, your second paragraph is spot on. The thing I don't get is I suspect you're going to vote Remain and therefore for 'more of the same'.
I've noticed a lot of young people moan about their lot, quite justifiably, but don't seem to realise it's the present system that put them where they are.
Steve, that's because to me the choice is 'more of the same' or 'even worse.' I don't think I've got many illusions about the EU. What they did in Greece, for instance, was despicable. I just don't think much of what legitimately outrages people in this country —Â the housing crisis, the zero hours economy, the dismantling of the NHS —Â has got much to do with Europe. And I REALLY don't think it's anything an incoming government of Johnson, Gove & Farage are going to be addressing. Quite the fcking opposite.
I think you mentioned in an earlier post that voting In was voting for "the establishment." Look at the people who will realistically take power post-Brexit: Farage, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith. That's the anti-establishment vote?? Private landlords, asset-strippers, ideological nutters and public school arseholes. Under those circumstances, wrap me in the EU flag mate.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:53 - Jun 18 with 3246 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:41 - Jun 18 by DannytheR
Steve, that's because to me the choice is 'more of the same' or 'even worse.' I don't think I've got many illusions about the EU. What they did in Greece, for instance, was despicable. I just don't think much of what legitimately outrages people in this country —Â the housing crisis, the zero hours economy, the dismantling of the NHS —Â has got much to do with Europe. And I REALLY don't think it's anything an incoming government of Johnson, Gove & Farage are going to be addressing. Quite the fcking opposite.
I think you mentioned in an earlier post that voting In was voting for "the establishment." Look at the people who will realistically take power post-Brexit: Farage, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith. That's the anti-establishment vote?? Private landlords, asset-strippers, ideological nutters and public school arseholes. Under those circumstances, wrap me in the EU flag mate.
It's interesting that you mentioned Greece - the EU brought them access to cheap borrowing and they took advantage of that like a kid in a sweetshop, thus making themselves the authors or their own downfall. What a lot of people forget is that there was an emergency EU referendum in Greece before their big bailout and they chose to stay - they obviously feel it's safer economically to be in the club, so to speak.
There might be something in that.
"Thank you for supporting Queens Park Rangers Steep Staircase"... and I thought I'd signed up for a rollercoaster.
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:41 - Jun 18 by DannytheR
Steve, that's because to me the choice is 'more of the same' or 'even worse.' I don't think I've got many illusions about the EU. What they did in Greece, for instance, was despicable. I just don't think much of what legitimately outrages people in this country —Â the housing crisis, the zero hours economy, the dismantling of the NHS —Â has got much to do with Europe. And I REALLY don't think it's anything an incoming government of Johnson, Gove & Farage are going to be addressing. Quite the fcking opposite.
I think you mentioned in an earlier post that voting In was voting for "the establishment." Look at the people who will realistically take power post-Brexit: Farage, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith. That's the anti-establishment vote?? Private landlords, asset-strippers, ideological nutters and public school arseholes. Under those circumstances, wrap me in the EU flag mate.
I hear you Danny and those that know my political postings on here pre Brexit Debate will know I couldn't be further from the Boris' etc of this world.
But maintaining the whatever democratic power we still have gives us at least a slim chance in the future to remove those types and govern ourselves in a fairer manner.
You sound like someone with a good appreciation of where power really lies and its control in the hand of the elite types. Do you really think that they would allow an organisation as powerful (see Dutch referendum being ignored) like the EU to exist without using their influence to control its direction and who it will ultimately serve?
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:14 - Jun 18 with 3194 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:41 - Jun 18 by DannytheR
Steve, that's because to me the choice is 'more of the same' or 'even worse.' I don't think I've got many illusions about the EU. What they did in Greece, for instance, was despicable. I just don't think much of what legitimately outrages people in this country —Â the housing crisis, the zero hours economy, the dismantling of the NHS —Â has got much to do with Europe. And I REALLY don't think it's anything an incoming government of Johnson, Gove & Farage are going to be addressing. Quite the fcking opposite.
I think you mentioned in an earlier post that voting In was voting for "the establishment." Look at the people who will realistically take power post-Brexit: Farage, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith. That's the anti-establishment vote?? Private landlords, asset-strippers, ideological nutters and public school arseholes. Under those circumstances, wrap me in the EU flag mate.
I get what you're saying but it's terribly sad to see such a negative attitude.
You know full well, a Remain vote will mean more of the same, a same that has treated the young badly. Why would you want this kind of hopelessness?
The great thing about being young, before having your own family, is that you can take a chance, take a risk knowing you have very little to lose.
I am a little puzzled by this generation. When I was young it was us who took risks, whilst the older generation would be establishment, wanting more of the same. Feels now like society has been turned on its head and not for the better.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:22 - Jun 18 with 3185 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:41 - Jun 18 by DannytheR
Steve, that's because to me the choice is 'more of the same' or 'even worse.' I don't think I've got many illusions about the EU. What they did in Greece, for instance, was despicable. I just don't think much of what legitimately outrages people in this country —Â the housing crisis, the zero hours economy, the dismantling of the NHS —Â has got much to do with Europe. And I REALLY don't think it's anything an incoming government of Johnson, Gove & Farage are going to be addressing. Quite the fcking opposite.
I think you mentioned in an earlier post that voting In was voting for "the establishment." Look at the people who will realistically take power post-Brexit: Farage, Johnson, Gove, Duncan-Smith. That's the anti-establishment vote?? Private landlords, asset-strippers, ideological nutters and public school arseholes. Under those circumstances, wrap me in the EU flag mate.
Do you mean the public school arsehole who is currently in charge?
Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:35 - Jun 18 with 3156 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 11:58 - Jun 18 by 1BobbyHazell
I hear you Danny and those that know my political postings on here pre Brexit Debate will know I couldn't be further from the Boris' etc of this world.
But maintaining the whatever democratic power we still have gives us at least a slim chance in the future to remove those types and govern ourselves in a fairer manner.
You sound like someone with a good appreciation of where power really lies and its control in the hand of the elite types. Do you really think that they would allow an organisation as powerful (see Dutch referendum being ignored) like the EU to exist without using their influence to control its direction and who it will ultimately serve?
I don't think there's a happy ending in either direction to be honest mate. I know which interests the EU generally acts in. I also think whatever version of democracy in this country is too far gone to hold out much hope of a sane, fair country. We haven't managed in it my lifetime, I don't know why we would start now.
And this whole argument has been poisoned by the hatreds the Brexit camp have stirred up, most of them purely for short term political gain. Look at some (not all I know) of the people on here who argue most loudly and longly for Out. Let's be honest, is it corporate power and inequality that gets them worked up, or some non-existent cartoon version of "political correctness" and too many foreigners? Who knows, maybe those sentiments will carry the day next week. But if it does, I can't see how next Friday morning will be the start of a road to a fairer Britain. It's like someone said to me last week, as we watch Farage take up his (no doubt richly remunerated) job under the new Johnson government, it'll be no use saying "yeah, but I voted for the GOOD Brexit."
I suppose what I'm saying is that, sadly, I don't see a fairer Britain whatever happens. If Brexit wins I do see a lot of racists celebrating like its the cup final and the most rapacious business owners rubbing their hands together at being freed from "red tape." And fck that.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:43 - Jun 18 with 3150 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 12:22 - Jun 18 by Northolt_Rs
Do you mean the public school arsehole who is currently in charge?
That's the point. One old Etonian takes over from another as PM, a slightly different bunch of millionaire ex public schoolboys fill the cabinet, and that's sticking up two fingers at the establishment?
[Post edited 18 Jun 2016 12:56]
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:04 - Jun 18 with 3113 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:45 - Jun 18 by 1BobbyHazell
Ultimately it won't matter if we vote in or out.
Although I'm sure In will win, even if it doesn't the people who really run things will make sure they find a way to keep us in. The big players in centralised control are not really interested in what the populace have to say.
Just look at the blatant ignoring of the Dutch's recent referendum, over 66% of the vote said no. 66% ! More than any government could ever hope to get in a general election and yet it has been totally ignored. The EU (with the help of puppet politicians) pushed it through anyway.
This is the shape of things to come, if the people's blatant democratic will is being ignored where are these decisions coming from and how far will they pushed in the years to come?
There is a plan in place, if the people vote for it when given the chance then the pretence of democracy can be celebrated, but when they don't, as above, then democracy is shamelessly ignored and the plan continues anyway.
I understand why all the economic promises of doom are persuading people to vote In, but please consider this precedent of ignoring the clear will of the people.
Have a think about it. If you think it is price worth paying then fair do's but for me the guesswork of short term results is far outweighed by the support for a centralised body dominated by unelected members who get to decide to push through what they want even when confronted with overwhelming public opposition.
With love and peace x
[Post edited 18 Jun 2016 10:47]
Exactly how i see it Bobby,voting is just a visual exercise to play out the illusion of democracy,the improvement in technology has accellerated the esoteric agenda.
Their arrogance has become preposterous openly experimenting to see what they can get away with(raiding bank accounts in Greece)without fear of reprisals from a dumbed down materialistic vain population squabbling over who's the most 'racist' whilst they laugh at us 'eaters' and go about the end game of a one world order.
The far left and right are both promoted by the same people,thats what they do,back both sides like the American civil war,WW1 and WW2. We have the central Bank of England that has nothing to do with our government(our government-i almost want to throw up saying that),i mean their government. The federal reserve in the US is about as federal as federal express yet scum like this fella https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Geithner have been elevated to the most trusted position of secretary of treasury controlling the peoples money. Its like asking Ronnie Biggs to look after security at your bank. Its amusing to see people fighting over Donald Trump,have a look and see who's backing him financially,all roads lead to Rome. Anyway enough of this,i'm going to play golf with my boys. Keep up the good work. A couple of beautiful pieces of work to leave you with.
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 14:42 - Jun 18 with 2998 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 10:06 - Jun 18 by baz_qpr
Back to the OP these are my thoughts cut and paste from Facebook in response to someone else apologies if they offend.
Gotta say really worried the way this is going. The Brexit case is as if the Globalisation of the last 20 years never happened, as if capital cannot be shifted on a huge scale at the flick of a switch, or that populations all around the world are not moving around on an unprecedented scale not because of benefits but because they can through cheap global travel. In my view its completely delusional.
Do you honestly think any other country (other than China or Russia) whether in Europe or out wants to see us successfully leave. They want certainty and stability. They will make sure we are punished enough to slap down any other country from doing so, otherwise it all unravels. If we vote out it is in every other countries interest to punish us properly even if it costs them 5-8% of their overall export market. It will be needed to be seen that we suffer and don't thrive
Then we have the delusion that politicians actually have any power to control things. Mostly given away in the eighties and nineties free trade and globalisation deals. Only two or three countries / blocks are able to stand up to the corporate power of the Tata, Google, Amazon etc US, China, Russia and Europe.
Brexit will bring inflation, the pound will fall and trade tariffs will come into play,.
Inflation will either bring wage rises or fall in living standards.
The Bank of England will then raise interest rates to manage inflation as they are legally obliged to currently and given the recent historic lows of the last 8 years just a few percentage points will cripple the 25-45 year olds who have had to pay massively over the odds on housing (the profit which has gone yet again to the Babyboomers) Just a couple of percentage points is going to be a doubling of housing costs and that initself is going to push rents up. I genuinely think that people don't realise how flucked up and precarious our economic situation is especially with regards to housing and the economic policies of the last 8 years.
Finally a plea to the baby boomers the over 65's. This is not your referendum. Whatever your political views this is about your children and their children. Whatever the decision they will carry the cost / make the profit, lose or gain the opportunities / jobs etc. Please speak to them about the world / country they want. Its their future.
I'll ask you this too baz
What if we were to charge them the same tariffs as they charge us?....They would surely cancel each other out?
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Brexit .... My thoughts... on 17:27 - Jun 18 with 2920 views
Brexit .... My thoughts... on 13:04 - Jun 18 by essextaxiboy
Do you honestly think that the Scots , faced with a ballot paper of EU or UK will vote to leave us ?
I just dont think that they will.
They will, absolutely, no doubt. Scotland has had connections with the continent for years. Bonnie Prince Charlie was French. Loads of Scottish people commute to the continent by air from Glasgow, Edinburgh and Aberdeen. Big connections with the US as well. You'd be surprised how independent Scotland is already.
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