| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. 20:14 - Feb 19 with 17076 views | exiledclaseboy |
F*ck me get on with it. Everyone knows you're going to come out with something fairly meaningless that you'll hail as a triumph before your Cabinet members start scratching each other's eyes out from now until all eternity. [Post edited 19 Feb 2016 20:22]
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:04 - Feb 20 with 1306 views | Highjack |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:32 - Feb 20 by sherpajacob |
A Tory prime ministers pledge is worth ......... |
The same as a pledge from any other political party ever. |  |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:06 - Feb 20 with 1303 views | Davillin |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:48 - Feb 20 by monmouth |
I console myself with the fact that I might be dead soon. |
I understand. I have that thought a bit more often than I'd like to.
Then I think of my children and grandchildren. And shudder. |  |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:11 - Feb 20 with 1290 views | Highjack |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 15:18 - Feb 20 by exiledclaseboy |
Chances are that a vote to leave the EU will precipitate a second independence referendum is Scotland which is far more likely to lead to a "yes" vote than the last one if English votes have led to an EU exit for the UK. So June's vote is not only deciding the UK's future in Europe, in effect its deciding the existential future of the U.K. itself. Exciting stuff. |
So will the snp tell their supporters to vote leave even though they are in favour of staying in Europe if it gets them another referendum? Or will they campaign to stay in because it's what they believe in even though it will delay the next referendum? If the majority of Scottish voters vote leave because they want another independence referendum will they even get another referendum since they've voted leave?
My brain hurts. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:16 - Feb 20 with 1275 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:11 - Feb 20 by Highjack |
So will the snp tell their supporters to vote leave even though they are in favour of staying in Europe if it gets them another referendum? Or will they campaign to stay in because it's what they believe in even though it will delay the next referendum? If the majority of Scottish voters vote leave because they want another independence referendum will they even get another referendum since they've voted leave?
My brain hurts. |
The SNP is pledged to campaign to stay in but I'd imagine many of them will be secretly hoping for the opposite result.
Interestingly, the U.K. as a whole is a net contributor to the EU but Scotland, Wales and (I think) NI are net beneficiaries. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 17:17 - Feb 20 with 1272 views | stonedroses |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 22:08 - Feb 19 by dgt73 |
Cameron AKA Chamberlain- " peace in our time " and that ended well didn't it....  |
a bit like the swansea board with Guidolins appointment |  | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 18:06 - Feb 20 with 1225 views | Nookiejack |
It will be interesting if another million migrants enter Europe when weather improves late Spring an early Summer - before the June referendum.
In Camp will hope 70,000 members of Free Syrian Army don't get in the way of Putin who appears to be starting to get a grip of Syrian situation. |  | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 18:27 - Feb 20 with 1205 views | jackportis |
I have been impressed with Cameron's leadership his assertiveness in "battling" for Britain. What a toff I'm convinced he could not care less what happens as long as he Iooks good. How about this.. Introduce income support after 4 years for current uk citizens. U.K. Sets this. |  |
| Jackportis the brand. “A gifted posterâ€, “planet swans have a real talent on their hands in the name of Jackportis†sky sports 2018. . JP fully supports posters of LBG, mx orientation and ethnic minority groups. Update - now fully supporting the pansexual community. |
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| Cameron's EU on 18:59 - Feb 20 with 1186 views | Kerouac |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:23 - Feb 20 by londonlisa2001 |
It's a very difficult decision.
I am genuinely undecided as well.
I look at our advantages as a nation - time zone, language, commonwealth links, financial institutions and none of them are impacted by an exit. I then wonder whether the EU states will genuinely stop trading with us and I can only see 'no' being the answer given the size of the UK market. I also then wonder if being a cheap place for BMW to make cars is what we should be aiming for.
The genuinely big markets for the next generation are India and China. Will they want French goods not British goods if we leave? No. What is it we could genuinely build wealth on other than financial markets? Well our ability to manufacture goods of an exceptional quality and our creative industries. We should be basing our output on quality and creativity not price as we can never compete with other countries who are cheaper than us, both in Europe and worldwide.
I also look at the increasingly global economy and wonder whether the EU really matters or is just another level of expensive bureaucracy. I also look at the imposition of rules that we seem to adopt without question whereas the rest of the EU doesn't bother. I wonder if we are just being taken for mugs.
Finally I ask myself whether the UK or the rest of the EU would be most alarmed by a no vote, and I think it's the rest of the EU, which means they gain more from us than we do from them.
The opposing view to that - I genuinely see myself as a European and as part of the European cultural tradition. I also can't bear the small minded bigots who just dislike foreigners.
Don't know. |
Snap.
Only I came to my conclusion years ago.
I am of an age whereby the EU has always been there.
When I was a younger man I started off thinking it was a good idea and would be a useful tool in lots of areas to advance many agendas.
It turned out that my fellow European's agendas are different to my own (...and by extension what I feel should be the UK's agenda).
I have long thought that it just gets in the way.
It is infuriating at times.
Almost impossible to reform slow to react on the continent wide issues where it could be useful.
It governs where there is no need (petty rules on everything!) and is incapacitated on issues where it needs to step in.
It was the Euro crisis and Greece which truly did it for me....I was already irritated by the whole thing, Strasbourg, C.A.P. etc.
I genuinely think the UK will vote 'no'.
People don't trust elites anymore, whether it's Cameron and his crew or the Brussels lot.
I'm not saying that's entirely healthy, but it is true....we have the Tory and Labour top brass asking us to vote to stay.
I'd be shocked if the British public don't give them a kick up the arse, I don't even think the result will be close.
[Post edited 20 Feb 2016 19:10]
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 19:12 - Feb 20 with 1170 views | Flashberryjack |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 16:32 - Feb 20 by sherpajacob |
A Tory prime ministers pledge is worth ......... |
A labour prime ministers pledge is worth just as much. |  |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 19:32 - Feb 20 with 1157 views | Kerouac |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 22:01 - Feb 19 by CountyJim |
Simple really whatever the deal they want out so they are going to slate it anyway
Just wait till the campaign started then get the token Black member to comment to prove they aren't racist |
I can't stand this sort of comment.
A few years ago we had a load of family around and the subject of Europe came up....without exception they all professed their revulsion for UKIP calling them "racists", BNP, little Englanders, xenophobes, bigots, ignorant etc.
I laughed along like a good leftie but was really thinking about how strange it was that people on the left of politics mostly assume that the only people who want out are the rabid right and racists....after all in the 70s it had been the left wing who weren't keen on the EU and the Tories who were all for it.
During the course of the afternoon I tested them with the odd question concerning how the EU works. It turned out they were to a man/woman totally anaware of the European institutions, the institutions functions, who held the top posts, who had held these posts previously
In short it was they who were the ignorant bigots.
I put it down to sheer intellectual laziness.
Are you aware that UKIP is a rebrand of a previous political party started by left wing academics?
Can you get your head around the fact that people who have differing opinions to yours on geopolitics and the question of 'How we should be governed?' have merely reached different conclusions and could not be described as "racists" in anyway whatsoever?
How well informed are you on the history of, the politics and the functions of the EU?
If you are for staying "in" please put forward an argument, don't label people with derogatory terms. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 20:27 - Feb 20 with 1121 views | Davillin |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 19:12 - Feb 20 by Flashberryjack |
A labour prime ministers pledge is worth just as much. |
But a king's ransom compared with our American "president." | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 20:35 - Feb 20 with 1110 views | PozuelosSideys |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 08:03 - Feb 20 by Kilkennyjack |
The little Englanders will want out, the rest of us will want to stay in. I would much rather welcome great European players rather than have another European war. The vote is a waste of money that you can thank the ukip morons for. Completely unnecessary. |
Rather than have another European war? Pretty sure the European landgrab attempts on the Eastern front will have them crossing swords with the Russians sooner rather than later. |  |
| "Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper." | | Poll: | Hattricks |
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| Cameron's EU on 21:09 - Feb 20 with 1077 views | LeonisGod |
I see Boris is sitting on the fence. Trying to see which way this is going to swing I suppose, as if he picks the losing side that's his chance of being PM gone.
Edit - he should be pro, as the Frogs and Itis love their bikes! [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 21:10]
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:13 - Feb 20 with 1070 views | Davillin |
Those of you asking for, or hoping for, an explanation of the impact of Cameron's EU "win," you might want to read the article at the link below, and the comments below it, which are instructive.
Please remember to not blame the messenger while you keep an open mind before reaching your conclusions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-eu-deal-whats-in-it | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:15 - Feb 20 with 1068 views | Lohengrin |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 18:27 - Feb 20 by jackportis |
I have been impressed with Cameron's leadership his assertiveness in "battling" for Britain. What a toff I'm convinced he could not care less what happens as long as he Iooks good. How about this.. Introduce income support after 4 years for current uk citizens. U.K. Sets this. |
Credit where it's due, that's rosette standard fishing...   |  |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:16 - Feb 20 with 1063 views | Kerouac |
Lots of people assume that the referendum spells doom for the Tories as they will rip each other apart....which IS likely.
but
If we vote 'in'. It is a victory for Cameron and Osbourne (and now Therese May) who managed to secure a "better deal" for the UK when Labour said this wasn't possible...and won.
If we vote 'out'. Half of the Tory party will be able to say they are on the same side of the argument as the public....with Boris and Gove being in pole position to lead the Tories and possibly the country.
The Labour party, meanwhile, will have backed the wrong horse and will be seen as out of touch. There are Labour people on the side of the 'No' campaign....but none that I could see capitalizing on a 'No' vote to lead their party at the next election.
As far as I can see either way the Labour party will lose. | |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:31 - Feb 20 with 1051 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 19:32 - Feb 20 by Kerouac |
I can't stand this sort of comment.
A few years ago we had a load of family around and the subject of Europe came up....without exception they all professed their revulsion for UKIP calling them "racists", BNP, little Englanders, xenophobes, bigots, ignorant etc.
I laughed along like a good leftie but was really thinking about how strange it was that people on the left of politics mostly assume that the only people who want out are the rabid right and racists....after all in the 70s it had been the left wing who weren't keen on the EU and the Tories who were all for it.
During the course of the afternoon I tested them with the odd question concerning how the EU works. It turned out they were to a man/woman totally anaware of the European institutions, the institutions functions, who held the top posts, who had held these posts previously
In short it was they who were the ignorant bigots.
I put it down to sheer intellectual laziness.
Are you aware that UKIP is a rebrand of a previous political party started by left wing academics?
Can you get your head around the fact that people who have differing opinions to yours on geopolitics and the question of 'How we should be governed?' have merely reached different conclusions and could not be described as "racists" in anyway whatsoever?
How well informed are you on the history of, the politics and the functions of the EU?
If you are for staying "in" please put forward an argument, don't label people with derogatory terms. |
Sorry I down arrowed you in error when I didn't mean to (although actually I don't agree with your post).
I certainly agree that there are many reasons why people may want out - as I've already said, I am unsure. There are also many examples given by UKIP of reasons why they want out that are perfectly reasonable. However, UKIP is chock full of racists and bigots - they try to hush them up, but one only had to listen to Paul Nuttall on QT a few weeks ago to understand his motivation. He just doesn't like Asians (on that occasion, he didn't like the fact they were voting for someone other than UKIP and was desperately trying to find a reason for ignoring them without saying 'it's because they're Asian').
Likewise that awful Geoffrey Bloom and many many more. I also have to say in my experience which may be unique of course, I have never met anyone that votes UKIP who actually just doesn't like foreigners or other races much.
So while I think it's correct that many people want to or may want to come out of th EU for many reasons that have little or nothing to do with race or immigration, I think UKIP is for me at least, one of the reasons I may vote to stay in. | | | |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:38 - Feb 20 with 1049 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 20:35 - Feb 20 by PozuelosSideys |
Rather than have another European war? Pretty sure the European landgrab attempts on the Eastern front will have them crossing swords with the Russians sooner rather than later. |
Closer European ties have kept people safe - yep thats a fact. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:41 - Feb 20 with 1048 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 08:29 - Feb 20 by dgt73 |
Yet no doubt you support Irish and Scottish independence. |
And English.
Having nation states in a European framework is normal. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:50 - Feb 20 with 1036 views | dgt73 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:38 - Feb 20 by Kilkennyjack |
Closer European ties have kept people safe - yep thats a fact. |
And what are these facts ? Can't wait to hear them. |  |
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| Cameron's EU on 21:53 - Feb 20 with 1030 views | dgt73 |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 21:41 - Feb 20 by Kilkennyjack |
And English.
Having nation states in a European framework is normal. |
More shite from you. If Scotland had gained independence there was no guarantee they'd be allowed to join the EU - countries such as Spain would probably put a block on them - fearing a break up of their own country. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 21:54]
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| Cameron's EU on 22:16 - Feb 20 with 1003 views | Lohengrin |
| Cameron's EU on 21:53 - Feb 20 by dgt73 |
More shite from you. If Scotland had gained independence there was no guarantee they'd be allowed to join the EU - countries such as Spain would probably put a block on them - fearing a break up of their own country. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 21:54]
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Correct. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 22:17 - Feb 20 with 998 views | jackportis |
The question I have will planet swans be any different if we come out of Europe. | |
| Jackportis the brand. “A gifted posterâ€, “planet swans have a real talent on their hands in the name of Jackportis†sky sports 2018. . JP fully supports posters of LBG, mx orientation and ethnic minority groups. Update - now fully supporting the pansexual community. |
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| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 22:20 - Feb 20 with 994 views | blueytheblue |
| Cameron's EU "deal" negotiations. on 22:17 - Feb 20 by jackportis |
The question I have will planet swans be any different if we come out of Europe. |
Scandal as Phil gets filmed eating croissants for breakfast rather than a full English/Welsh? | |
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| Cameron's EU on 23:06 - Feb 20 with 969 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Cameron's EU on 21:53 - Feb 20 by dgt73 |
More shite from you. If Scotland had gained independence there was no guarantee they'd be allowed to join the EU - countries such as Spain would probably put a block on them - fearing a break up of their own country. [Post edited 20 Feb 2016 21:54]
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What i said is true.
I think you are just too dull to understand.
I guess school was difficult and embarrassing for you. What a div. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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