| No style of play is killing us 00:27 - Jan 27 with 2284 views | Pey |
Said it under Hughes regime and saying it now.
We have no style of play whatsoever, our game is based on coincidences and odd highlights from players.
From a game style of view we are by far the worst in the league.
Each time i see other teams play it look as if they understand each other on the pitch and know how to cope with the team strategy some more successful then others.
But we look like complete strangers on the pitch and thats a real nightmare to watch.
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| No style of play is killing us on 00:47 - Jan 27 with 2244 views | TacticalR |
This is a longstanding problem which Richard Langley talked about on Open All R's. Asked about Mark Hughes' philosophy he said:
"It is difficult to see sometimes. Sometimes we do go out there and we look we're going to pass the ball with Granero and Faurlin in the middle. They look like they can take control of the game. And then there are times when we look very, very direct: we're hitting Zamora, and missing out the midfield."
Rather than a system we do seem to rely on moments of individual brilliance. The way I put it after the West Brom away match which we lost 3-2 was that West Brom's goals were from the production line, whereas ours were hand-crafted masterpieces. Redknapp has worked around the problem by remorseless defending so that at least the moments of hand-crafted brilliance have a chance of paying off. |  |
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| No style of play is killing us on 00:50 - Jan 27 with 2236 views | Neil_SI |
The problem here is style of play usually manifests from the back. It starts with the goalkeepers and defenders, and it's here where we're quite weak, not only defensively but offensively as well.
It's one of the reasons why we do need more mobile centre backs, as while Clint Hill and Ryan Nelsen had performed so admirably, they're simply using their experience to shore up a leaky defence where appropriate and they've not really got it in them to help us take the style of play to the next level.
Until we get this part of the system sorted out, it's difficult to progress and develop the rest of the style further down the pitch, and you end up relying on individuals to pull you through or just key moments in matches to fall your way. It's been like that for us for the best part of a year, if not more, seeing as actually in our Championship season we built the side around Adel Taarabt and getting him on the ball in key areas, so while that is a style, it's only for particular circumstances in terms of what you have available in your squad.
The team that played against MK Dons haven't played a great deal together, so there was definitely a lack of cohesion resulting from that, but the key problem was a lack of game intelligence and nous, to know what to do, or identify passages of play that you can improvise and build on at the time and take the game by the scruff of the neck. |  | | |
| No style of play is killing us on 01:07 - Jan 27 with 2220 views | OxheyR |
| No style of play is killing us on 00:50 - Jan 27 by Neil_SI |
The problem here is style of play usually manifests from the back. It starts with the goalkeepers and defenders, and it's here where we're quite weak, not only defensively but offensively as well.
It's one of the reasons why we do need more mobile centre backs, as while Clint Hill and Ryan Nelsen had performed so admirably, they're simply using their experience to shore up a leaky defence where appropriate and they've not really got it in them to help us take the style of play to the next level.
Until we get this part of the system sorted out, it's difficult to progress and develop the rest of the style further down the pitch, and you end up relying on individuals to pull you through or just key moments in matches to fall your way. It's been like that for us for the best part of a year, if not more, seeing as actually in our Championship season we built the side around Adel Taarabt and getting him on the ball in key areas, so while that is a style, it's only for particular circumstances in terms of what you have available in your squad.
The team that played against MK Dons haven't played a great deal together, so there was definitely a lack of cohesion resulting from that, but the key problem was a lack of game intelligence and nous, to know what to do, or identify passages of play that you can improvise and build on at the time and take the game by the scruff of the neck. |
style of play has nothing to do with the centre backs. midfield is where the problem lies |  | | |
| No style of play is killing us on 01:49 - Jan 27 with 2188 views | Neil_SI |
| No style of play is killing us on 01:07 - Jan 27 by OxheyR |
style of play has nothing to do with the centre backs. midfield is where the problem lies |
I said the goalkeeper and defenders, so what I mean by that, is let's say we have a goal kick or the goalkeeper has the ball in his hands.
How and where does he distribute this and what happens next?
Then when you think about what happens next, what happens after that? And what happens at any point from back to front in that chain if the play breaks down or something goes wrong?
The style of play usually always comes from the base of the team. How they play out largely dictates the style. Otherwise it's a lottery and down to individual battles, if you simply play the way you're facing or just play percentage based football and launch or put balls into areas for players to contest and fight for.
As you move up and down the pitch, the focus obviously changes to different points in the side depending on the scenario, such as the teams ability to recycle possession, which is a combination of the midfield and defence, or launch systematic counter attacks that are not necessarily impulsive.
The teams with the most mobile defence tend to have the best style of play. If you watch Manchester United for example, you often find their centre backs out wide in the full back positions when they have the ball in certain areas of the pitch. The full backs themselves almost become wingers and the central midfielders, or at least one of them, fall back into the centre back position.
The mobility of those defenders and their comfort on the ball, as well as tactical understanding allows the other players to really go and play and impose their style of play on the opposition. This is how they've released Paul Scholes to dictate matches from the base of the midfield, and his recycling and ball retention with those defenders is crucial for ball retention, territorial dominance and launching specific attacks based on the way they want to play. Swansea City have also adopted a fairly similar style of play where you see their central defenders in very wide positions.
Similarly you find Chelsea (how often have you seen John Terry joining attacks down the left side, even popping up in the channels) to Tottenham, who's Jan Vertonghen is extremely versatile and Kyle Walker, who can really bomb on and stretch the play so that the central midfielders can dictate from deep in the base of the side.
We've an experienced trio in Shaun Derry, Ryan Nelsen and Clint Hill, but they are limited to what they can do. Stephané Mbia has the mobility to pick up and play but he doesn't have the nous or the quality in the pass to make himself really effective, though you hope he can get there. | | | |
| No style of play is killing us on 09:16 - Jan 27 with 2109 views | kingo |
From the players that HR is after he is trying to impose a style.He and we for that matter have seen that we don't have the players with enough quality to outplay the top sides and we don't have the commitment to out battle the bottom sides. So HR is looking to add players that will make us very difficult to break down by constant pressure but can break fast and make those chances count. In Mackie and SWP we can get the ball upfield but they lack the quality in the box to make it count. That is why we have paid out for Remy, as we saw at WHU, he has speed but will make his opportunity count. Odemwinge is the same, will break fast and has enough quality to put a chance away. Sadly at the moment both Mackie and SWP are not scoring or setting up from the chances we make. |  |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| No style of play is killing us on 09:29 - Jan 27 with 2078 views | silky |
Great comments all rounds fellas it is a pleasure reading Kingo & Neil have to say. Agree with whats been said. |  |
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| No style of play is killing us on 10:18 - Jan 27 with 1985 views | jo_qpr63 |
| No style of play is killing us on 09:29 - Jan 27 by silky |
Great comments all rounds fellas it is a pleasure reading Kingo & Neil have to say. Agree with whats been said. |
+1
Too many players came in in too short space of time. I dont believe the players individually are bad players (maybe 1 or 2 are?!)because they have all done ok in other teams but as a team it seems it just does not work.
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| No style of play is killing us on 10:26 - Jan 27 with 1971 views | baz_qpr |
I think one of our biggest problems is our wide players and that is where much of our play breaks down |  | | |
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| No style of play is killing us on 10:37 - Jan 27 with 1952 views | kingo |
| No style of play is killing us on 10:26 - Jan 27 by baz_qpr |
I think one of our biggest problems is our wide players and that is where much of our play breaks down |
Agreed, from his comments he looks like he wants to play BZ up front with Remy and Odemwinge or similar playing off him and Adel in the hole. That would mean that the defence and centre midfield could soak up pressure and release to either the wide players or BZ. We won't get many chances playing that way, as we have seen recently we won't concede many and won't make many chances but we have to take them and that means better finishers. This style is very similar to West Broms, and it hasn't dome them too much harm, but it does rely on speed from the break and ability to score from chances. | |
| RIP: Sniffer, Doug and Pat |
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| No style of play is killing us on 11:18 - Jan 27 with 1895 views | Pey |
| No style of play is killing us on 09:29 - Jan 27 by silky |
Great comments all rounds fellas it is a pleasure reading Kingo & Neil have to say. Agree with whats been said. |
+ 1000
Great explanation of what we see back on the pitch.
Like also to add...
If you look at teams like Ajax and Barcelona its not hard to see why they bring up excellent youth players into the first team.
Juniors aged from 7 or 8 are drilled into a game style which represents the first team style.
Their youth scouting is entirely based on players capable of fitting in the game style or they believe being turned into.
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| No style of play is killing us on 11:49 - Jan 27 with 1852 views | TacticalR |
| No style of play is killing us on 11:18 - Jan 27 by Pey |
+ 1000
Great explanation of what we see back on the pitch.
Like also to add...
If you look at teams like Ajax and Barcelona its not hard to see why they bring up excellent youth players into the first team.
Juniors aged from 7 or 8 are drilled into a game style which represents the first team style.
Their youth scouting is entirely based on players capable of fitting in the game style or they believe being turned into.
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One thing to bear in mind is that it is no easy thing to establish a footballing philosophy. On Revista La Liga Pako Ayestarán said that even in Spain only 2 or 3 clubs in the entire league had a philosophy. | |
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| No style of play is killing us on 11:55 - Jan 27 with 1838 views | Pey |
| No style of play is killing us on 11:49 - Jan 27 by TacticalR |
One thing to bear in mind is that it is no easy thing to establish a footballing philosophy. On Revista La Liga Pako Ayestarán said that even in Spain only 2 or 3 clubs in the entire league had a philosophy. |
Hard but not impossible, you have to start somewhere.
It would take a lot of discipline and harmony from the top of the Football Club till way down. | | | |
| No style of play is killing us on 13:00 - Jan 27 with 1808 views | HollowayRanger |
hill nelsen both good but SLOW so cant push up the field as would get murdered for pace,onouha not a rightback so not going to support an attack so only out ball is traroe/fabio from the back
midfield is woefull without taarabt as an attacking option
forward line doesnt exsist unless ball is to feet as there isnt a player to win and hold ball up (please god zamorra stays fit now)
but for me its more basic then that football is all about GOALS
who was going to score us goals
defence maybe 2-4 a season = 1 so far
derry faurlin 1============== 0 so far
granero 2-4 max ============1 so far
mbia 2-3===================0 so far
mackie 3-5 max===============1 so far
swp 2-3====================1 so far
hoilett 3-6=================2 so far
taarabt 5-8================ 4 so far
zamorra 8-10============== 3 so far
johnso 8-10================0 so far
cisse 8-10==================3 so far
rest 5===================== 1 remy
i expected 48-69 goals so far we got 18 !!!!!!from 23 games
you can wint many games if your scoring less than a goal a game |  |
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| No style of play is killing us on 13:14 - Jan 27 with 1792 views | Jigsore |
| No style of play is killing us on 13:00 - Jan 27 by HollowayRanger |
hill nelsen both good but SLOW so cant push up the field as would get murdered for pace,onouha not a rightback so not going to support an attack so only out ball is traroe/fabio from the back
midfield is woefull without taarabt as an attacking option
forward line doesnt exsist unless ball is to feet as there isnt a player to win and hold ball up (please god zamorra stays fit now)
but for me its more basic then that football is all about GOALS
who was going to score us goals
defence maybe 2-4 a season = 1 so far
derry faurlin 1============== 0 so far
granero 2-4 max ============1 so far
mbia 2-3===================0 so far
mackie 3-5 max===============1 so far
swp 2-3====================1 so far
hoilett 3-6=================2 so far
taarabt 5-8================ 4 so far
zamorra 8-10============== 3 so far
johnso 8-10================0 so far
cisse 8-10==================3 so far
rest 5===================== 1 remy
i expected 48-69 goals so far we got 18 !!!!!!from 23 games
you can wint many games if your scoring less than a goal a game |
I don't know about that, Stoke manage it |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| No style of play is killing us on 13:38 - Jan 27 with 1773 views | Flex |
I do miss the tactical features from last season, any chance they can make a comeback?
A lack of footballing philosophy has hindered our progress as it also dictates the type of player you purchase. That's why Swansea lost their manager and key players, yet remain a strong unit from purchases dictated by a system and philosophy.
This is, in part why we look devoid of ideas both offensively and defensively and have bought unwisely. | | | |
| No style of play is killing us on 14:08 - Jan 27 with 1752 views | HollowayRanger |
| No style of play is killing us on 13:14 - Jan 27 by Jigsore |
I don't know about that, Stoke manage it |
They have one of the meanist defences in the premiership
we got
onouha nelsen hill traore/fabio
plus bosingwa ferdinad benny
how many would they want out of these even nelsen would play 2nd fiddle to shawcross and huth | |
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| No style of play is killing us on 14:59 - Jan 27 with 1719 views | Mattnme |
What we have failed to do for just over a year since Faurlin and Helguson got injured and the latter left is keep pocession of the ball. There in lies the biggest problem. As we don't have the players to play the stoke/westham percentage game the biggest hope is to keep the defence as solid as possible and hope the ball falls to Taarabt and he can do something. I'm guessing HR knows this and knows there is no-time to impose a style so by getting in Remy and Odemwingie (maybe) he's getting players that can conjure something out of nothing.Football is a simple game to a degree I think people over complicate it with tactics. Keep the ball the opposition doesnt hurt you. Keep the ball a little bit longer and you might get a chance to score. It may have been boring but that's what swansea did last year. They never played the swanselona type football the media had people believing they just had one objective survival. This year they have been able to push on. If Harry can perform a miracle and keep Rangers up the style will be next year. |  | | |
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