| Why three centre halves? 05:46 - Feb 3 with 5371 views | jokerthief |
Robin Stockdale looks like he is adamant his team needs three centre halves WHY?
He has the best two in league division 2. Downing and EOC, can have Dorsett on the subs bench. two top class fullbacks, from Mansfield and Fleetwood.
The big problem is scoring goals, so now we can have four midfielders and two strikers.
That defence will take care of anything in league two, please R.S. lets get a little more adventurous, especially at home. This defensive strategy is much too negative.
R.S certainly has the players now to be more positive.
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| Why three centre halves? on 08:02 - Feb 3 with 5246 views | boromat |
I think it's too early to say it's the wrong formation. We look the most solid that we have done at the moment. Let's see what Campbell, Charman and Ball bring to the attacking side of the game before changing it up. |  |
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| Why three centre halves? on 10:16 - Feb 3 with 5092 views | Dale9823 |
We hardly adopt a defensive strategy. It's more like 3 at the back with 2 very attacking wingbacks. Move to 2 at the back and we would lose some of the creativity of Clark and O'Keeffe.
This is the first time in a few years that we've looked reasonably solid defensively, wouldn't want to change that.
We've been creating plenty of chances all season and have taken plenty of shots. We're just not scoring them. We're averaging the 3rd most shots per game but also averaging the most shots off target. Beesley was great but his 9 goals came in 5 games. He wasn't a consistent goalscorer. Hopefully, Charman and Campbell can help that and start testing the keeper a bit more. https://www.fctables.com/england/league-2/shots/
That being said I would argue Stockdale can be reluctant to go for the kill in games. It's not been very often this season that we've converted late pressure into a winner. Even Sutton at home when Morley scored in the last minute we threw away a 2 goal lead. | | | |
| Why three centre halves? on 11:39 - Feb 3 with 4941 views | samueloneils |
I think Ball may turn out to be the key signing. | | | |
| Why three centre halves? on 15:43 - Feb 3 with 4667 views | Brierls |
Robin Stockdale?
Playing three centre halfs allows the wing backs to bomb on. Why limit that by playing a flat back four? You reduce the threat of the wing backs because they have more rigid defensive responsibility.
It's blinkered to suggest Downing and EOC are the best two centre halfs in League Two. I think they're very good at this level, but I don't think I'd be crowing about them being the best two. Similarly, you have no idea if O'Keefe and Clark are top class full backs, because we've not seen them play there. They are bloody good wing backs, that's for sure.
4-4-2 doesn't mean a more attacking approach, it's the mindset of a football dinosaur to think it does. We've seen more attacking threat from O'Keefe and Clark (in limited appearances) than the vast majority of wingers that have played in a 4-4-2 in years gone by.
Up until the Covid induced Xmas/New Year break we were one of the best sides in the league for creating chances. That was achieved playing with three centre halfs. I don't think the formation is the issue, it seems to be a more reserved approach from the players. From what RS has said in his interviews, he'll be looking to install a more forward thinking attitude in the players. |  | | |
| Why three centre halves? on 16:35 - Feb 3 with 4563 views | AtThePeake |
| Why three centre halves? on 15:43 - Feb 3 by Brierls |
Robin Stockdale?
Playing three centre halfs allows the wing backs to bomb on. Why limit that by playing a flat back four? You reduce the threat of the wing backs because they have more rigid defensive responsibility.
It's blinkered to suggest Downing and EOC are the best two centre halfs in League Two. I think they're very good at this level, but I don't think I'd be crowing about them being the best two. Similarly, you have no idea if O'Keefe and Clark are top class full backs, because we've not seen them play there. They are bloody good wing backs, that's for sure.
4-4-2 doesn't mean a more attacking approach, it's the mindset of a football dinosaur to think it does. We've seen more attacking threat from O'Keefe and Clark (in limited appearances) than the vast majority of wingers that have played in a 4-4-2 in years gone by.
Up until the Covid induced Xmas/New Year break we were one of the best sides in the league for creating chances. That was achieved playing with three centre halfs. I don't think the formation is the issue, it seems to be a more reserved approach from the players. From what RS has said in his interviews, he'll be looking to install a more forward thinking attitude in the players. |
Agree with the vast majority of that, but I do still get a bit frustrated when we're losing in the latter stages of a game and we still have three centre-backs on the pitch. |  |
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| Why three centre halves? on 16:54 - Feb 3 with 4514 views | boromat |
| Why three centre halves? on 16:35 - Feb 3 by AtThePeake |
Agree with the vast majority of that, but I do still get a bit frustrated when we're losing in the latter stages of a game and we still have three centre-backs on the pitch. |
Agree, I would like to see us take more risks with changes towards the end of games when we're on the ascendancy and looking to get the win. | |
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| Why three centre halves? on 16:58 - Feb 3 with 4505 views | Boss_Hog |
| Why three centre halves? on 15:43 - Feb 3 by Brierls |
Robin Stockdale?
Playing three centre halfs allows the wing backs to bomb on. Why limit that by playing a flat back four? You reduce the threat of the wing backs because they have more rigid defensive responsibility.
It's blinkered to suggest Downing and EOC are the best two centre halfs in League Two. I think they're very good at this level, but I don't think I'd be crowing about them being the best two. Similarly, you have no idea if O'Keefe and Clark are top class full backs, because we've not seen them play there. They are bloody good wing backs, that's for sure.
4-4-2 doesn't mean a more attacking approach, it's the mindset of a football dinosaur to think it does. We've seen more attacking threat from O'Keefe and Clark (in limited appearances) than the vast majority of wingers that have played in a 4-4-2 in years gone by.
Up until the Covid induced Xmas/New Year break we were one of the best sides in the league for creating chances. That was achieved playing with three centre halfs. I don't think the formation is the issue, it seems to be a more reserved approach from the players. From what RS has said in his interviews, he'll be looking to install a more forward thinking attitude in the players. |
I disagree Briels and take the Oldham game as an example. Sheridan was happy to let us have the ball as his side retreated to halfway line and his plan was that we wouldn't score and they'd hopefully nick a 1-0; he was right bar the fact his very poor side couldn't score.
We bossed possession but created very little and at no point did I ever think we'd score in that game. The stats will show we should have won, but did you think at any second we would score a goal and win that game? Remember, we've only won 6 league games all season, less than 25% of our games and we've played 3-4-3 all season.
With the new signings, I'd like to see us play two up top. We can still play with wing backs in O'Keefe and Clark, but why not forfeit one of the numbers 10s (Grant, Newby, Odoh) and replace them with someone who will hopefully find the onion bag and cause the opposition more of a problem? The midfielders behind the numbers 10s (Broadbent, Dooley and Kelly) rarely get forward to be in a position to score goals and aren't creative - bar Kelly on occasions when he does play the ball forward), so we need more threat in the final third IMHO.
I do agree that O'Connell and Downing look above League Two level however, so why not back yourself as a team that they'll deal with the attacking threat of the opposition? RS is right that we need to have a more forward thinking mentality, because at present we are totally reliable on that coming from two wingbacks and that isn't a recipe for success whatsoever. | | | |
| Why three centre halves? on 17:32 - Feb 3 with 4439 views | D_Alien |
| Why three centre halves? on 16:58 - Feb 3 by Boss_Hog |
I disagree Briels and take the Oldham game as an example. Sheridan was happy to let us have the ball as his side retreated to halfway line and his plan was that we wouldn't score and they'd hopefully nick a 1-0; he was right bar the fact his very poor side couldn't score.
We bossed possession but created very little and at no point did I ever think we'd score in that game. The stats will show we should have won, but did you think at any second we would score a goal and win that game? Remember, we've only won 6 league games all season, less than 25% of our games and we've played 3-4-3 all season.
With the new signings, I'd like to see us play two up top. We can still play with wing backs in O'Keefe and Clark, but why not forfeit one of the numbers 10s (Grant, Newby, Odoh) and replace them with someone who will hopefully find the onion bag and cause the opposition more of a problem? The midfielders behind the numbers 10s (Broadbent, Dooley and Kelly) rarely get forward to be in a position to score goals and aren't creative - bar Kelly on occasions when he does play the ball forward), so we need more threat in the final third IMHO.
I do agree that O'Connell and Downing look above League Two level however, so why not back yourself as a team that they'll deal with the attacking threat of the opposition? RS is right that we need to have a more forward thinking mentality, because at present we are totally reliable on that coming from two wingbacks and that isn't a recipe for success whatsoever. |
Since i don't see any point in signing Charman and Campbell for fees and having them keep a seat on the bench warm for each other, i agree that we now need to play 2 up top
We can still keep the 3 CBs though. Playing a 352 with Ball at the base of midfield (but with a license to bomb forward) and whichever 2 other midfielders are on their game (i'd go for Kelly & Grant) also leaves us plenty of options to change things if needed from the bench
Neither Newby or Odoh are making enough impact imo to retain either as a starter. Assuming a fully fit squad, it'd be:
Coleman
Downing O'Connell Dorsett
O'Keefe Kelly Ball Grant Clark
Campbell Charman
A bench of: Lynch, Keohane, White, Dooley, Newby, Odoh, Broadbent would give us all the options we'd ever need |  |
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| Why three centre halves? on 18:08 - Feb 3 with 4351 views | Brierls |
| Why three centre halves? on 16:35 - Feb 3 by AtThePeake |
Agree with the vast majority of that, but I do still get a bit frustrated when we're losing in the latter stages of a game and we still have three centre-backs on the pitch. |
I agree with changing things later on in the game. I think EOC does that himself, going walkabout further up the pitch. I’m still not sure whether that’s under instruction haha. | | | |
| Why three centre halves? on 18:18 - Feb 3 with 4329 views | Brierls |
| Why three centre halves? on 16:58 - Feb 3 by Boss_Hog |
I disagree Briels and take the Oldham game as an example. Sheridan was happy to let us have the ball as his side retreated to halfway line and his plan was that we wouldn't score and they'd hopefully nick a 1-0; he was right bar the fact his very poor side couldn't score.
We bossed possession but created very little and at no point did I ever think we'd score in that game. The stats will show we should have won, but did you think at any second we would score a goal and win that game? Remember, we've only won 6 league games all season, less than 25% of our games and we've played 3-4-3 all season.
With the new signings, I'd like to see us play two up top. We can still play with wing backs in O'Keefe and Clark, but why not forfeit one of the numbers 10s (Grant, Newby, Odoh) and replace them with someone who will hopefully find the onion bag and cause the opposition more of a problem? The midfielders behind the numbers 10s (Broadbent, Dooley and Kelly) rarely get forward to be in a position to score goals and aren't creative - bar Kelly on occasions when he does play the ball forward), so we need more threat in the final third IMHO.
I do agree that O'Connell and Downing look above League Two level however, so why not back yourself as a team that they'll deal with the attacking threat of the opposition? RS is right that we need to have a more forward thinking mentality, because at present we are totally reliable on that coming from two wingbacks and that isn't a recipe for success whatsoever. |
I thought we were going to score late against Oldham, when O’Keefe was causing havoc down the right. I thought something was going to come of that, then we took Newby off for Odoh for what turned out to be a negative impact. Clark was getting balls in from the left too, with one cross flashing across goal needing the slightest of touches.
My point is the formation isn’t the reason we’re not threatening; it’s more to do with the players instincts to play it safe.
I agree we should go two up top, with Charman and Campbell. D’Alien’s lineup above is what I’d go with, along with an instruction to play a forward pass as your first thought. If Charman and Campbell are occupying defenders it’s a dream for the likes of Grant (and possibly Ball) to get into gaps from midfield. I don’t think we’ve brought Charman and Campbell with the intention of playing one or the other, hopefully we’ll see them start together when up to speed. [Post edited 3 Feb 2022 18:22]
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| Why three centre halves? on 18:29 - Feb 3 with 4298 views | 442Dale |
| Why three centre halves? on 17:32 - Feb 3 by D_Alien |
Since i don't see any point in signing Charman and Campbell for fees and having them keep a seat on the bench warm for each other, i agree that we now need to play 2 up top
We can still keep the 3 CBs though. Playing a 352 with Ball at the base of midfield (but with a license to bomb forward) and whichever 2 other midfielders are on their game (i'd go for Kelly & Grant) also leaves us plenty of options to change things if needed from the bench
Neither Newby or Odoh are making enough impact imo to retain either as a starter. Assuming a fully fit squad, it'd be:
Coleman
Downing O'Connell Dorsett
O'Keefe Kelly Ball Grant Clark
Campbell Charman
A bench of: Lynch, Keohane, White, Dooley, Newby, Odoh, Broadbent would give us all the options we'd ever need |
That’d be my team too with Andrews on the bench instead of White for the impact sub option.
Really do hope we can get Graham some loan time at National League level if possible as well. |  |
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| Why three centre halves? on 18:59 - Feb 3 with 4200 views | 1907 |
I don’t think five at the back or four at the back is necessarily the problem.
The problem for me is that we should try to set up to deal with the opposition, instead of a one size fits all approach. Every team we play against knows we’re going with three centre halves, it’s just who will be operating further forward that is the unknown for them.
I’ve said it all season - we are far too predictable!
Our record against the poorer teams in the league is shocking. There’s no other word for it.
Playing with three centre half’s against teams as poor as Colchester and Oldham isn’t the way.
However given the fact we’ve beaten a few teams in the play offs with five at the back proves the merit in it.
We’ve got a squad big enough now to mix it up. That’s what I want to see from Robbie.
Gambling late on in games, taking risks. We just don’t see enough of it, and for me, that’s the problem. [Post edited 3 Feb 2022 20:05]
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| Why three centre halves? on 19:17 - Feb 3 with 4167 views | jokerthief |
| Why three centre halves? on 18:59 - Feb 3 by 1907 |
I don’t think five at the back or four at the back is necessarily the problem.
The problem for me is that we should try to set up to deal with the opposition, instead of a one size fits all approach. Every team we play against knows we’re going with three centre halves, it’s just who will be operating further forward that is the unknown for them.
I’ve said it all season - we are far too predictable!
Our record against the poorer teams in the league is shocking. There’s no other word for it.
Playing with three centre half’s against teams as poor as Colchester and Oldham isn’t the way.
However given the fact we’ve beaten a few teams in the play offs with five at the back proves the merit in it.
We’ve got a squad big enough now to mix it up. That’s what I want to see from Robbie.
Gambling late on in games, taking risks. We just don’t see enough of it, and for me, that’s the problem. [Post edited 3 Feb 2022 20:05]
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Agree totally with this message, being so predictable is the problem.
Wilder when doing well at Sheff United had the centre half's bombing forward. | | | |
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