| Question for Pinner 19:51 - Jan 8 with 4940 views | paulhoop2 |
Don’t worry not about a ref !
If the shootout continued would we have been able to bring another keeper on for the injured Archer ? |  |
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| Question for Pinner on 20:14 - Jan 8 with 4285 views | ozranger |
I believe the answer is no. We are only allowed five subs throughout the game, including extra-time. The only extra allowance is a fourth time we can make a substitution during extra-time. We had already completed our allocated five subs when Aaron Drewe came on between full-time and the commencement of extra-time.
So, as with Birmingham last game, an outfield player would have had to go into goal for the remainder of the penalty shootout. |  | | |
| Question for Pinner on 20:29 - Jan 8 with 4205 views | essextaxiboy |
Would their goal keeper have had to take pen if ours was unable to and could we have chosen any player if not ? |  | | |
| Question for Pinner on 21:07 - Jan 8 with 4099 views | terryb |
| Question for Pinner on 20:29 - Jan 8 by essextaxiboy |
Would their goal keeper have had to take pen if ours was unable to and could we have chosen any player if not ? |
I believe that Rotherham would have to have chosen which player was to sit out, but I assume that could only have been one of the two players that had not taken a penalty. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 21:10 - Jan 8 with 4076 views | ozranger |
| Question for Pinner on 20:29 - Jan 8 by essextaxiboy |
Would their goal keeper have had to take pen if ours was unable to and could we have chosen any player if not ? |
Yes. This is one of the weird things about penalty shootouts. If a team has only ten men, one having been sent off, then at the eleventh penalty one team would have to use their eleventh player while the other their first. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 22:18 - Jan 8 with 3956 views | TW_R |
| Question for Pinner on 21:10 - Jan 8 by ozranger |
Yes. This is one of the weird things about penalty shootouts. If a team has only ten men, one having been sent off, then at the eleventh penalty one team would have to use their eleventh player while the other their first. |
That’s not right. The rules state:
“Only players who were on the pitch at the end of play or temporarily absent (injured, adjusting equipment etc.) will be allowed to participate in the shoot-out.[1] If at the end of the match and before or during the kicks one side has more players on the pitch than the other, whether as a result of injury or red cards, then the side with more players must reduce its numbers to match the opponents; this is known as 'reduce to equate'. For example, if Team A has 11 players but Team B only has 10, then Team A will choose one player who will not take part. Players excluded this way may take no further part in the procedure, either as kicker or goalkeeper, except that they can be used to replace a goalkeeper who becomes injured during the shootout. The rule was introduced by the International Football Association Board in February 2000 because previously an eleventh kick would be taken by the eleventh (i.e. weakest) player of a full-strength team and the first (i.e. strongest) player of a sub-strength team.[10] A rule change in 2016 eliminated the possibility of a team gaining such an advantage if a player is injured or sent off during the shoot-out.”
“If a player, other than the goalkeeper, becomes injured or is sent off during the shoot-out, then the shoot-out will continue with no substitution allowed. The opposing team must reduce its numbers accordingly.”
This is interesting.
“If it becomes necessary for players to take another kick (because the score has remained equal after all eligible players have taken their first kick), players are not required to kick in the same order.” [Post edited 8 Jan 2022 22:20]
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| Question for Pinner on 09:11 - Jan 9 with 3681 views | ozranger |
| Question for Pinner on 22:18 - Jan 8 by TW_R |
That’s not right. The rules state:
“Only players who were on the pitch at the end of play or temporarily absent (injured, adjusting equipment etc.) will be allowed to participate in the shoot-out.[1] If at the end of the match and before or during the kicks one side has more players on the pitch than the other, whether as a result of injury or red cards, then the side with more players must reduce its numbers to match the opponents; this is known as 'reduce to equate'. For example, if Team A has 11 players but Team B only has 10, then Team A will choose one player who will not take part. Players excluded this way may take no further part in the procedure, either as kicker or goalkeeper, except that they can be used to replace a goalkeeper who becomes injured during the shootout. The rule was introduced by the International Football Association Board in February 2000 because previously an eleventh kick would be taken by the eleventh (i.e. weakest) player of a full-strength team and the first (i.e. strongest) player of a sub-strength team.[10] A rule change in 2016 eliminated the possibility of a team gaining such an advantage if a player is injured or sent off during the shoot-out.”
“If a player, other than the goalkeeper, becomes injured or is sent off during the shoot-out, then the shoot-out will continue with no substitution allowed. The opposing team must reduce its numbers accordingly.”
This is interesting.
“If it becomes necessary for players to take another kick (because the score has remained equal after all eligible players have taken their first kick), players are not required to kick in the same order.” [Post edited 8 Jan 2022 22:20]
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Thanks. I was using an old set of rules and what I had witnessed in the past. Glad that this has been updated to cover the situation properly. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 09:30 - Jan 9 with 3628 views | PinnerPaul |
Ok having erm... 'refreshed my memory'   , here's (based on below) is what would have happened if they had scored and Archer could not have continued.
Assuming we had used 5 subs, Walsh NOT allowed to replace Archer. Player 10 (Drewe I think) would have taken our pen number 10. They would have had to exclude a player, who obviously would NOT have been their GK, who would have had to take penalty 10 for them.
After that the 10 players for each side could then take their 2nd kicks in any order.
"- If at the end of the match and before or during the kicks one team has a
greater number of players than its opponents, it must reduce its numbers to
the same number as its opponents and the referee must be informed of the
name and number of each player excluded. Any excluded player is not eligible
to take part in the kicks (except as outlined below)
- A goalkeeper who is unable to continue before or during the kicks may be
replaced by a player excluded to equalise the number of players or, if their
team has not used its maximum permitted number of substitutes, a named
substitute, but the replaced goalkeeper takes no further part and may not
take a kick" | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 16:30 - Jan 9 with 3300 views | TGRRRSSS |
Not sure about Keeper thing - settled I think.
However if you had a red card I thought you would lose.
Example being England v Argentina 1998 - had it gone to 11 spot kicks each England couldn't do an 11th with a fresh player as Beckham had a red card, so Argentina would have gone through 11-10 lets say |  | | |
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| Question for Pinner on 13:56 - Jan 10 with 2967 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 16:30 - Jan 9 by TGRRRSSS |
Not sure about Keeper thing - settled I think.
However if you had a red card I thought you would lose.
Example being England v Argentina 1998 - had it gone to 11 spot kicks each England couldn't do an 11th with a fresh player as Beckham had a red card, so Argentina would have gone through 11-10 lets say |
No that's not correct, as stated above you have to have same number of players as the oppo. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 16:43 - Jan 10 with 2869 views | gazza1 |
My question to PP
How old are you?? and what level of football did you officiate at?? and what officiating do you do now in football??? [Post edited 10 Jan 2022 16:44]
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| Question for Pinner on 16:47 - Jan 10 with 2862 views | stowmarketrange |
| Question for Pinner on 16:43 - Jan 10 by gazza1 |
My question to PP
How old are you?? and what level of football did you officiate at?? and what officiating do you do now in football??? [Post edited 10 Jan 2022 16:44]
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He is 61 and I think he refs to quite a high level of non league.I’m not sure of his shoe size though. |  | | |
| Question for Pinner on 16:58 - Jan 10 with 2829 views | gazza1 |
| Question for Pinner on 16:47 - Jan 10 by stowmarketrange |
He is 61 and I think he refs to quite a high level of non league.I’m not sure of his shoe size though. |
inside leg? | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 13:45 - Jan 11 with 2582 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 16:43 - Jan 10 by gazza1 |
My question to PP
How old are you?? and what level of football did you officiate at?? and what officiating do you do now in football??? [Post edited 10 Jan 2022 16:44]
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You need to pay attention a bit more, all that is out there in the archives of this site! 
As a general point, and this really is a general point, and NOT directed at you, most of the stuff I post on here is basic LOTG stuff or subjective opinion - which as I've said before, by its very nature, can't be 'right' or 'wrong'.
Don't have to be a qualified referee to discount the football myths and legends and glance at the LOTG every now and again!
However, to be fair to everyone on here and football fans in general, there are people being paid to play, manage, write about and commentate on football who clearly don't ever do that!
Cheers! | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 15:11 - Jan 11 with 2531 views | ozranger |
While we have Pinner on the ropes  would VAR have over-ruled Rotherham's goal on Saturday? It appears that Wood is (a) possibly in an off-side position when the kick was made over him and (b) impeding Adomah, which can be clearly seen by Adomah's hands in the air trying to get past. Am I correct that, if the above two are correct, the ruling should have been off-side against Wood and the goal ruled out?
It also comes back to the comment made by Shearer after last night's game, I think, that you should not have VAR in just a few games and not all. None should have had it. But then, that also comes to the point of our goal. If there was not goal-line technology at all grounds, then it should not have been used at ours and there is every chance that the goal may have been disallowed as neither the referee nor the assistant were convinced it had crossed the line. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 15:20 - Jan 11 with 2519 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 15:11 - Jan 11 by ozranger |
While we have Pinner on the ropes would VAR have over-ruled Rotherham's goal on Saturday? It appears that Wood is (a) possibly in an off-side position when the kick was made over him and (b) impeding Adomah, which can be clearly seen by Adomah's hands in the air trying to get past. Am I correct that, if the above two are correct, the ruling should have been off-side against Wood and the goal ruled out?
It also comes back to the comment made by Shearer after last night's game, I think, that you should not have VAR in just a few games and not all. None should have had it. But then, that also comes to the point of our goal. If there was not goal-line technology at all grounds, then it should not have been used at ours and there is every chance that the goal may have been disallowed as neither the referee nor the assistant were convinced it had crossed the line. |
Point 1 - Arsene Wenger defence, just about to watch the whole 2 hours plus - haven't seen any highlights yet.
Point 2 - Yes I agree - Whole competition should have same rules, but if not then, each round of the competition should.
As far as our goal is concerned though, as I said above, with GLT, AR will not signal even if he thinks it is in (or out for that matter) - no need to get involved when GLT is in place, so we will never know if he thought it was in or not. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 15:40 - Jan 11 with 2498 views | stowmarketrange |
| Question for Pinner on 15:20 - Jan 11 by PinnerPaul |
Point 1 - Arsene Wenger defence, just about to watch the whole 2 hours plus - haven't seen any highlights yet.
Point 2 - Yes I agree - Whole competition should have same rules, but if not then, each round of the competition should.
As far as our goal is concerned though, as I said above, with GLT, AR will not signal even if he thinks it is in (or out for that matter) - no need to get involved when GLT is in place, so we will never know if he thought it was in or not. |
Thanks for clearing up the glt mate.I was right behind the goal on Saturday and saw that it was over the line,and I was surprised not to see the Lino signal for a goal until he pointed to his watch a second after it had happened.
I suppose by the same laws as var,nobody should have glt unless everybody has it. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 16:50 - Jan 11 with 2452 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 15:40 - Jan 11 by stowmarketrange |
Thanks for clearing up the glt mate.I was right behind the goal on Saturday and saw that it was over the line,and I was surprised not to see the Lino signal for a goal until he pointed to his watch a second after it had happened.
I suppose by the same laws as var,nobody should have glt unless everybody has it. |
Yep, certainly in the same round of the same competition.
Get to the semis and final at Wembley, yes have all the the technology you want, everyone knows its there in advance.
At the moment though you don't know, ahead of the draw, if you have GLT, GLT with VAR or just the good old fashioned idiots with the dodgy eyesight. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 09:22 - Jan 12 with 2319 views | francisbowles |
| Question for Pinner on 16:50 - Jan 11 by PinnerPaul |
Yep, certainly in the same round of the same competition.
Get to the semis and final at Wembley, yes have all the the technology you want, everyone knows its there in advance.
At the moment though you don't know, ahead of the draw, if you have GLT, GLT with VAR or just the good old fashioned idiots with the dodgy eyesight. |
Pinner do any of the assistants have gt on their watch?
It seems on Saturday that there was uncertainty and a delay and I wondered if the ref's watch could have failed and the lino had a back up. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 09:25 - Jan 12 with 2317 views | stowmarketrange |
| Question for Pinner on 09:22 - Jan 12 by francisbowles |
Pinner do any of the assistants have gt on their watch?
It seems on Saturday that there was uncertainty and a delay and I wondered if the ref's watch could have failed and the lino had a back up. |
The Lino definitely pointed to his watch when the goal was given so I’d guess they do,unless he was just pointing out the fact that the refs glt watch said it was over the line. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 15:26 - Jan 12 with 2218 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 09:22 - Jan 12 by francisbowles |
Pinner do any of the assistants have gt on their watch?
It seems on Saturday that there was uncertainty and a delay and I wondered if the ref's watch could have failed and the lino had a back up. |
Excellent question I have no idea.
Conspiracy theory alert!
I suppose it (GLT) could have failed - it has once to my knowledge - and ref asked AR if it was in, he said yes (based on eyesight alone) and ref 'blagged it' by pointing at watch!
As I say that's very very likely just made up nonsense by me, but let me find out if ARS or indeed 4th has a back up GLT watch. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 15:36 - Jan 12 with 2204 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 15:11 - Jan 11 by ozranger |
While we have Pinner on the ropes would VAR have over-ruled Rotherham's goal on Saturday? It appears that Wood is (a) possibly in an off-side position when the kick was made over him and (b) impeding Adomah, which can be clearly seen by Adomah's hands in the air trying to get past. Am I correct that, if the above two are correct, the ruling should have been off-side against Wood and the goal ruled out?
It also comes back to the comment made by Shearer after last night's game, I think, that you should not have VAR in just a few games and not all. None should have had it. But then, that also comes to the point of our goal. If there was not goal-line technology at all grounds, then it should not have been used at ours and there is every chance that the goal may have been disallowed as neither the referee nor the assistant were convinced it had crossed the line. |
Seen it now - agree with Clive's match report - that WAS a long old watch and I was in the dry and warm!
Incident you mention - difficult to see as only a few camera angles.
Impossible to see if he was offside and pictures I saw don't really show all the contact with Albert.
Strangely though, it was almost on the exact same blade of grass on the pitch as the incident in the Man Utd/Villa game where Villa's goal WAS chalked off because a player in an offside position had blocked off Cavani - a decision that did NOT get universal agreement on RefChat though! | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 16:14 - Jan 12 with 2167 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 09:22 - Jan 12 by francisbowles |
Pinner do any of the assistants have gt on their watch?
It seems on Saturday that there was uncertainty and a delay and I wondered if the ref's watch could have failed and the lino had a back up. |
I've been advised that all 4 officials have GLT on their watches, so your theory could be correct. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 09:22 - Jan 13 with 2054 views | francisbowles |
| Question for Pinner on 16:14 - Jan 12 by PinnerPaul |
I've been advised that all 4 officials have GLT on their watches, so your theory could be correct. |
Cheers Pinner.
Learnt something. | | | |
| Question for Pinner on 09:29 - Jan 13 with 2037 views | PinnerPaul |
| Question for Pinner on 09:22 - Jan 13 by francisbowles |
Cheers Pinner.
Learnt something. |
So have I!
Also that at least one refereeing team at the AFCON have 4 watches that don't even tell the time!  | | | |
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