| Match thread: Walsall, H 14:01 - Aug 25 with 22922 views | 442Dale |
Subs:
Kgosi Ntlhe
Ryan Delaney
Calvin Andrew
Connor Randall
Bradden Inman
Brendan Moore
Andy Cannon
Not sure why Cannon has been left out. [Post edited 25 Aug 2018 14:03]
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 08:26 - Aug 26 with 2895 views | NDGN82 |
It’s infuriating when KH blames player mistakes - when will he ever admit that it’s himself making the biggest mistakes of all? Team selection, formation, tactics. That’s all down to KH and KH alone
If he wants to blame players, firstly pick the right ones in their best positions, and then give them a run of games in those positions rather than chopping and changing to suit tactics that do not work for the particular players he has available! |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 08:35 - Aug 26 with 2865 views | fitzochris |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 08:26 - Aug 26 by NDGN82 |
It’s infuriating when KH blames player mistakes - when will he ever admit that it’s himself making the biggest mistakes of all? Team selection, formation, tactics. That’s all down to KH and KH alone
If he wants to blame players, firstly pick the right ones in their best positions, and then give them a run of games in those positions rather than chopping and changing to suit tactics that do not work for the particular players he has available! |
Hill has evolved his football system beliefs over the years. From the swashbuckling, no-fear wing play of 2007 to this Pep/Mourinho hybrid we see now.
He clearly believes in it.
His problem, from what I see watching the games and not training, is that he doesn’t have the personnel to implement it the way he is expecting. Players look confused a lot of the time, leading to hesitancy and then mistakes.
The way it is being deployed leaves us looking toothless, too. With that said, I don’t think we have enough to front to make a difference regardless. When Hill shifted things about yesterday to three up front and Inman on the pitch, we still looked blunt.
If I was Hill, which I’m not, of course, I’d be on the phone to every active person I knew in football looking for a loan option up front. |  |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 09:28 - Aug 26 with 2768 views | kiwidale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 08:35 - Aug 26 by fitzochris |
Hill has evolved his football system beliefs over the years. From the swashbuckling, no-fear wing play of 2007 to this Pep/Mourinho hybrid we see now.
He clearly believes in it.
His problem, from what I see watching the games and not training, is that he doesn’t have the personnel to implement it the way he is expecting. Players look confused a lot of the time, leading to hesitancy and then mistakes.
The way it is being deployed leaves us looking toothless, too. With that said, I don’t think we have enough to front to make a difference regardless. When Hill shifted things about yesterday to three up front and Inman on the pitch, we still looked blunt.
If I was Hill, which I’m not, of course, I’d be on the phone to every active person I knew in football looking for a loan option up front. |
You will have been in your share of post match press conferences Chris, can you make any sense out of this:
Manager Keith Hill reflects on Dale's defeat to Walsall at the Crown Oil Arena...
Rochdale went two goals behind before Callum Camps halved the deficit, but Hill’s side couldn’t find an equaliser despite late pressure on the Saddlers’ defence.
“We were 2-0 down and we shouldn’t be,” said Hill.
“No matter how hard this group is working, we can’t make the mistakes that we’re making.
“Sometimes it goes against you but you’ve got to fight hard and stick to your principles. You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat.
“The game was too slow and we played into the opponents’ hands. We got through the units well, with respect to getting the ball where we needed to, then it became slow and predictable, which is what the opponents want — they’re very good at sitting and, I suppose, picking your pocket, and that’s what happened.
“We’ve got to make sure that we don’t ebb too much into the confidence of the players. It was a disappointing day because we had a lot of the ball, and on 31 minutes their first opportunity was gifted to them and they took advantage.
“I won’t complain about the way the opposition play to win football matches, there’s no wrong way. There were a lot of disruptions - it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game with too many whistles."
He continued: “I think there was a bit too much caution. I think they realised the amount of goals we’ve conceded in the last three games takes you on the back foot a little bit.
“We were predictable in possession, and again, you want an intensity whether it’s going direct or whether you’re trying to play through the units.
“When you get through the units, you should be staying out and making sure you get crosses into the box with quality. I can understand there being a little bit of anxiety, but not the amount we’ve seen today.
“It comes down to how you want to play the game as an individual player and making sure you’re not responsible for the individual mistakes.
“It’s a shame really, because these players are running the distances and supporting each other, but it’s not materialising in the performance I expect or that can I see from this group of players. That’s down to confidence.”
If you read that with your eyes closed it's Mike Bassett. The best bits are "it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game" and this gem "You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat." [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 9:30]
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| This is not the time for bickering.
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 09:45 - Aug 26 with 2738 views | 442Dale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 09:28 - Aug 26 by kiwidale |
You will have been in your share of post match press conferences Chris, can you make any sense out of this:
Manager Keith Hill reflects on Dale's defeat to Walsall at the Crown Oil Arena...
Rochdale went two goals behind before Callum Camps halved the deficit, but Hill’s side couldn’t find an equaliser despite late pressure on the Saddlers’ defence.
“We were 2-0 down and we shouldn’t be,” said Hill.
“No matter how hard this group is working, we can’t make the mistakes that we’re making.
“Sometimes it goes against you but you’ve got to fight hard and stick to your principles. You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat.
“The game was too slow and we played into the opponents’ hands. We got through the units well, with respect to getting the ball where we needed to, then it became slow and predictable, which is what the opponents want — they’re very good at sitting and, I suppose, picking your pocket, and that’s what happened.
“We’ve got to make sure that we don’t ebb too much into the confidence of the players. It was a disappointing day because we had a lot of the ball, and on 31 minutes their first opportunity was gifted to them and they took advantage.
“I won’t complain about the way the opposition play to win football matches, there’s no wrong way. There were a lot of disruptions - it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game with too many whistles."
He continued: “I think there was a bit too much caution. I think they realised the amount of goals we’ve conceded in the last three games takes you on the back foot a little bit.
“We were predictable in possession, and again, you want an intensity whether it’s going direct or whether you’re trying to play through the units.
“When you get through the units, you should be staying out and making sure you get crosses into the box with quality. I can understand there being a little bit of anxiety, but not the amount we’ve seen today.
“It comes down to how you want to play the game as an individual player and making sure you’re not responsible for the individual mistakes.
“It’s a shame really, because these players are running the distances and supporting each other, but it’s not materialising in the performance I expect or that can I see from this group of players. That’s down to confidence.”
If you read that with your eyes closed it's Mike Bassett. The best bits are "it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game" and this gem "You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat." [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 9:30]
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They did “get through the units” (urgh) quite well but it’s the final third where it all goes wrong when there’s no threat. If you get to “unit” three and there’s only Wilbraham in advance of the ball, then they naturally come back and it all starts again.
Somewhere in this thread there’s a post about Perkins being in advance of Henderson when we were building a move. It cannot be reiterated enough how this relentlessly tedious scenario of where we play our top goalscorer over the last few seasons is one of the major problems. So he might not say so, but all that about playing “through the units” (urgh) only serves to bring more focus to Hill’s decision on where he employs Henderson. | |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 10:10 - Aug 26 with 2681 views | DaleFan7 |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 09:28 - Aug 26 by kiwidale |
You will have been in your share of post match press conferences Chris, can you make any sense out of this:
Manager Keith Hill reflects on Dale's defeat to Walsall at the Crown Oil Arena...
Rochdale went two goals behind before Callum Camps halved the deficit, but Hill’s side couldn’t find an equaliser despite late pressure on the Saddlers’ defence.
“We were 2-0 down and we shouldn’t be,” said Hill.
“No matter how hard this group is working, we can’t make the mistakes that we’re making.
“Sometimes it goes against you but you’ve got to fight hard and stick to your principles. You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat.
“The game was too slow and we played into the opponents’ hands. We got through the units well, with respect to getting the ball where we needed to, then it became slow and predictable, which is what the opponents want — they’re very good at sitting and, I suppose, picking your pocket, and that’s what happened.
“We’ve got to make sure that we don’t ebb too much into the confidence of the players. It was a disappointing day because we had a lot of the ball, and on 31 minutes their first opportunity was gifted to them and they took advantage.
“I won’t complain about the way the opposition play to win football matches, there’s no wrong way. There were a lot of disruptions - it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game with too many whistles."
He continued: “I think there was a bit too much caution. I think they realised the amount of goals we’ve conceded in the last three games takes you on the back foot a little bit.
“We were predictable in possession, and again, you want an intensity whether it’s going direct or whether you’re trying to play through the units.
“When you get through the units, you should be staying out and making sure you get crosses into the box with quality. I can understand there being a little bit of anxiety, but not the amount we’ve seen today.
“It comes down to how you want to play the game as an individual player and making sure you’re not responsible for the individual mistakes.
“It’s a shame really, because these players are running the distances and supporting each other, but it’s not materialising in the performance I expect or that can I see from this group of players. That’s down to confidence.”
If you read that with your eyes closed it's Mike Bassett. The best bits are "it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game" and this gem "You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat." [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 9:30]
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There's no wrong way of playing football - He won't change his system.
It's slow and pedestrian- we've only got slow and pedestrian around the box players up top.
Ebb into player confidence - after the end of last season and pre-season the players should have come into the season bouncing. If they haven't that's down to the manager.
Individual player mistakes - what about major management mistakes?
There was too much caution, players arent confident - there has been for just over a season. What happened to no fear football.
More deflection from KH regarding him not having the personnel to play how he wants to play or being able to motivate and instil confidence into his team.
Surely we need to adapt the tactics to the players abilities. They're league 1/2 played, not world class players, they can't all play in 3 different positions. If they could they wouldn't be in this division. | | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 12:00 - Aug 26 with 2475 views | funkkk |
There's only so long any manager can keep blaming his players for defeat / poor performance without sounding stupid.
Can't help but feel our 'successful' pre-season, as Hill put it, has fooled him in to thinking we can play walking pace passing football and win enough games to stay up.
He needs to take his head out of his hole and take responsibility for our poor start. Put players in their correct positions, play to our strengths and get some points on the board. |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 13:07 - Aug 26 with 2343 views | sweetcorn |
Keith once again played squad bingo yesterday. Why cant we have a setlled 11, why the constant tinkering, it’s honestly dogshit.
Can’t believe no one has mentioned MJ Williams playing the hollywood ball 3 times in a row and losing the ball 3 times in a row from the said hollywood ball.
How is cannon not playing, he’s one of our best players who actually manages to drag us forward,
He deserves better than what hes getting here and wouldn’t begrudge him going to find it elsewhere.
No width, no pace, no character, NO ANYTHING, we’re dogshit and it’s going to be a long season.. |  |
| Leader of the little gang of immature cretins. |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 14:04 - Aug 26 with 2253 views | MoonyDale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 09:28 - Aug 26 by kiwidale |
You will have been in your share of post match press conferences Chris, can you make any sense out of this:
Manager Keith Hill reflects on Dale's defeat to Walsall at the Crown Oil Arena...
Rochdale went two goals behind before Callum Camps halved the deficit, but Hill’s side couldn’t find an equaliser despite late pressure on the Saddlers’ defence.
“We were 2-0 down and we shouldn’t be,” said Hill.
“No matter how hard this group is working, we can’t make the mistakes that we’re making.
“Sometimes it goes against you but you’ve got to fight hard and stick to your principles. You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat.
“The game was too slow and we played into the opponents’ hands. We got through the units well, with respect to getting the ball where we needed to, then it became slow and predictable, which is what the opponents want — they’re very good at sitting and, I suppose, picking your pocket, and that’s what happened.
“We’ve got to make sure that we don’t ebb too much into the confidence of the players. It was a disappointing day because we had a lot of the ball, and on 31 minutes their first opportunity was gifted to them and they took advantage.
“I won’t complain about the way the opposition play to win football matches, there’s no wrong way. There were a lot of disruptions - it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game with too many whistles."
He continued: “I think there was a bit too much caution. I think they realised the amount of goals we’ve conceded in the last three games takes you on the back foot a little bit.
“We were predictable in possession, and again, you want an intensity whether it’s going direct or whether you’re trying to play through the units.
“When you get through the units, you should be staying out and making sure you get crosses into the box with quality. I can understand there being a little bit of anxiety, but not the amount we’ve seen today.
“It comes down to how you want to play the game as an individual player and making sure you’re not responsible for the individual mistakes.
“It’s a shame really, because these players are running the distances and supporting each other, but it’s not materialising in the performance I expect or that can I see from this group of players. That’s down to confidence.”
If you read that with your eyes closed it's Mike Bassett. The best bits are "it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game" and this gem "You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat." [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 9:30]
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Its all waffle and bullsh1t to be honest, a winning mentality even in defeat. He's sounding more and more like Flicker at Bury and its embarrassing...... [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 14:05]
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 16:38 - Aug 26 with 2060 views | mikehunt |
And what would be the point of having one pacey winger. He would be crossing into a box devoid of any of our players.
I think we need two quality players - better than anyone we have at the moment. One at the front and one at the back. They would help drag the performances we need out of our current lot. I understand why Hilly brought Perks and Alby into the side; the hope that their experience and skill would help our players. Sadly the skill aspect seems lacking at the moment. And neither of them seems to be lifting the side by their presence.
'Taint good. And, whilst the prospect of losing Hill scares me, I think he should be big enough to quit if he has hit his limits managing our team. He shouldn't be allowed to take us down. We didn't get this far to only come this far. |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Match thread: Walsall, H on 19:01 - Aug 26 with 1909 views | ColDale |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 09:28 - Aug 26 by kiwidale |
You will have been in your share of post match press conferences Chris, can you make any sense out of this:
Manager Keith Hill reflects on Dale's defeat to Walsall at the Crown Oil Arena...
Rochdale went two goals behind before Callum Camps halved the deficit, but Hill’s side couldn’t find an equaliser despite late pressure on the Saddlers’ defence.
“We were 2-0 down and we shouldn’t be,” said Hill.
“No matter how hard this group is working, we can’t make the mistakes that we’re making.
“Sometimes it goes against you but you’ve got to fight hard and stick to your principles. You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat.
“The game was too slow and we played into the opponents’ hands. We got through the units well, with respect to getting the ball where we needed to, then it became slow and predictable, which is what the opponents want — they’re very good at sitting and, I suppose, picking your pocket, and that’s what happened.
“We’ve got to make sure that we don’t ebb too much into the confidence of the players. It was a disappointing day because we had a lot of the ball, and on 31 minutes their first opportunity was gifted to them and they took advantage.
“I won’t complain about the way the opposition play to win football matches, there’s no wrong way. There were a lot of disruptions - it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game with too many whistles."
He continued: “I think there was a bit too much caution. I think they realised the amount of goals we’ve conceded in the last three games takes you on the back foot a little bit.
“We were predictable in possession, and again, you want an intensity whether it’s going direct or whether you’re trying to play through the units.
“When you get through the units, you should be staying out and making sure you get crosses into the box with quality. I can understand there being a little bit of anxiety, but not the amount we’ve seen today.
“It comes down to how you want to play the game as an individual player and making sure you’re not responsible for the individual mistakes.
“It’s a shame really, because these players are running the distances and supporting each other, but it’s not materialising in the performance I expect or that can I see from this group of players. That’s down to confidence.”
If you read that with your eyes closed it's Mike Bassett. The best bits are "it was a slow game and I think the referee also played a slow game" and this gem "You’ve got to have a winning mentality, even in defeat." [Post edited 26 Aug 2018 9:30]
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I disagree. There's one key word in there which stands out a mile in there and was a key topic of conversation post match, and that is "predictable".
Genuinely think you can write off the Barnsley game, but Walsall came to Spotland yesterday, didn't look particularly impressive or threatening at any stage and won without being threatened themselves. Not seen the stats, but I reckon we had 60% possession throughout the game but created next to nothing. Walsall knew how we were going to play, and that was something that haunted our home form in the back end of last season.
Hilly has often talked about good and bad possession when discussing the opposition. We had very little of what you would call good possession, and Walsall would have been comfortable to knock it around for fun all afternoon. Peterborough played in a similar way, though I thought we were more threatening that day.
It struck me yesterday that our aim was to knock the ball about and seize on a mistake by the opposition to make the breakthrough. It should be that we are making something happen rather than waiting for the mistake. If we had that little bit of magic like we had with NML, then we'd have half a chance, but at the moment Done doesn't seem to be on form enough to get the better of the defence, whether thats down to lacking that extra yard or confidence.
Conversations took place about what has been successful in KH teams in the past and we looked back at the first promotion season. That year, we had 4 wingers in the matchday squad and it felt like all four would play every game. You almost felt that these players' instructions were to put 90 mins effort into 60 mins, and just run the opposition defenders to death. That pace from that approach seems to be one thing missing from the way we're playing.
Equally, you look back at last season, and the improvements for me started to kick in at Donny away in the league with Cannon's instroductions. Not done the maths, but I reckon our points per game ratio with Cannon in the side is higher than it is when he's not in the side - certainly in the period from end of December onwards. I know at times he hasn't always justified his place in the side but he adds an energy and drive to the midfield that wasn't there yesterday. |  | | |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 20:19 - Aug 26 with 1808 views | DaleiLama |
| Match thread: Walsall, H on 19:01 - Aug 26 by ColDale |
I disagree. There's one key word in there which stands out a mile in there and was a key topic of conversation post match, and that is "predictable".
Genuinely think you can write off the Barnsley game, but Walsall came to Spotland yesterday, didn't look particularly impressive or threatening at any stage and won without being threatened themselves. Not seen the stats, but I reckon we had 60% possession throughout the game but created next to nothing. Walsall knew how we were going to play, and that was something that haunted our home form in the back end of last season.
Hilly has often talked about good and bad possession when discussing the opposition. We had very little of what you would call good possession, and Walsall would have been comfortable to knock it around for fun all afternoon. Peterborough played in a similar way, though I thought we were more threatening that day.
It struck me yesterday that our aim was to knock the ball about and seize on a mistake by the opposition to make the breakthrough. It should be that we are making something happen rather than waiting for the mistake. If we had that little bit of magic like we had with NML, then we'd have half a chance, but at the moment Done doesn't seem to be on form enough to get the better of the defence, whether thats down to lacking that extra yard or confidence.
Conversations took place about what has been successful in KH teams in the past and we looked back at the first promotion season. That year, we had 4 wingers in the matchday squad and it felt like all four would play every game. You almost felt that these players' instructions were to put 90 mins effort into 60 mins, and just run the opposition defenders to death. That pace from that approach seems to be one thing missing from the way we're playing.
Equally, you look back at last season, and the improvements for me started to kick in at Donny away in the league with Cannon's instroductions. Not done the maths, but I reckon our points per game ratio with Cannon in the side is higher than it is when he's not in the side - certainly in the period from end of December onwards. I know at times he hasn't always justified his place in the side but he adds an energy and drive to the midfield that wasn't there yesterday. |
We also had a really good midfield. We don't press half as much anymore. We seem to be overpowered there too often and fail to create enough forward progress. It's like there's a glass ceiling in place between our midfield and the final third. |  |
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