| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? 16:58 - Mar 11 with 10290 views | Swanseaman |
I've checked the video footage and it seems to show clearly that the ball was Ayew's. He had the ball at the start. He was going with the ball that was his. It was Jonathan Hogg who decided to charge in and make the dangerous challenge.
Is it right that when a player is running with the ball as Ayew was, that a defender can charge into him with his studs up? Hogg must have realized it would be a dangerous tackle, but he went in there. Ayew was just going with the ball, no intent on any type of foul at all..
here are the video grabs: You can open the images up in a new window for full size..
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:30 - Mar 12 with 1750 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:27 - Mar 12 by jasper_T |
If they are leading with their studs (or an elbow) yeah. |
Yep and make contact with the player.
Even if that contact happens because their high leg (or elbow) is barged into another player by someone else - it is irrelevant.
As soon as the leg is high it is not totally in control as any deviance of the initial trajectory can send it in a direction not intended (which is why it is deemed dangerous and not allowed in the game). If it catches a player with studs up or point of elbow - then that is grounds for a red. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:32]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:34 - Mar 12 with 1743 views | swan65split |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:50 - Mar 11 by Swanseaman |
Are you certain about that, I've heard about being airborne, which Ayew wasn't.
He did make a small jump in the air prior to, but then landed, that must be viewed differently to flying into someone airborne.
[Post edited 11 Mar 2018 23:54]
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wrong post sorry [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:49]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:34 - Mar 12 with 1743 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:19 - Mar 12 by E20Jack |
I think the error you keep making is alluding to one was worse than the other as a defence as to why Jordan should not be sent off.
It is not a one or the other situation. Yes Hogg should have gone too, but that is a side issue to Jordans red, not a defence as to why his wasnt. |
My main defense for Ayew is that he only went for the ball with no intent at all to kick Hogg.
When a player makes an dangerous tackle on another player, where they should know better (obvious they shouldn't have gone for it), that's a reckless challenge. It's not what Ayew did, closer to careless I'd say. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:37 - Mar 12 with 1738 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:34 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
My main defense for Ayew is that he only went for the ball with no intent at all to kick Hogg.
When a player makes an dangerous tackle on another player, where they should know better (obvious they shouldn't have gone for it), that's a reckless challenge. It's not what Ayew did, closer to careless I'd say. |
That can be said for many players, including Shawcross who broke Ramseys leg. The ball was high so he went to win it, the problem with that however is you run the risk of making contact - be that deliberate or not. If you do then you are off depending on the force. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:38 - Mar 12 with 1738 views | swan65split |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:34 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
My main defense for Ayew is that he only went for the ball with no intent at all to kick Hogg.
When a player makes an dangerous tackle on another player, where they should know better (obvious they shouldn't have gone for it), that's a reckless challenge. It's not what Ayew did, closer to careless I'd say. |
no intent, but the video i saw he was airborne,,,,,,,so nocontrol....its an off Red,,,,should hve been a double | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:53 - Mar 12 with 1724 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:37 - Mar 12 by E20Jack |
That can be said for many players, including Shawcross who broke Ramseys leg. The ball was high so he went to win it, the problem with that however is you run the risk of making contact - be that deliberate or not. If you do then you are off depending on the force. |
You have some good points E20Jack. Also when you say that 'If it catches a player with studs up or point of elbow - then that is grounds for a red'.
With Ayews studs ended up going into Hoggs left leg, it was grounds for a red although there was more than that to consider.
Some posters keep on about being airborne as an automatic red, I had a look but could find no rules anywhere to say that.
At the end of the day a yellow could have been given, you will never be able to stop freaky incidents like that happening. It was a 50/50, Ayew was 100% committed, and so was Hogg. Accidental clashes of heads occur, where refs can see if there was any intent by one of them or not and decide what action to take. A different ref on a different day and it could have been a different decision. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:58]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:58 - Mar 12 with 1720 views | swan65split |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:53 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
You have some good points E20Jack. Also when you say that 'If it catches a player with studs up or point of elbow - then that is grounds for a red'.
With Ayews studs ended up going into Hoggs left leg, it was grounds for a red although there was more than that to consider.
Some posters keep on about being airborne as an automatic red, I had a look but could find no rules anywhere to say that.
At the end of the day a yellow could have been given, you will never be able to stop freaky incidents like that happening. It was a 50/50, Ayew was 100% committed, and so was Hogg. Accidental clashes of heads occur, where refs can see if there was any intent by one of them or not and decide what action to take. A different ref on a different day and it could have been a different decision. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:58]
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no control...in todays game its an off | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 03:01 - Mar 12 with 1718 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:58 - Mar 12 by swan65split |
no control...in todays game its an off |
I think he was in full control swan65split. He did a small jump but landed on the ground to kick the ball. If Hogg didn't get his leg in the way, it would probably have been a good kick.
I found the video for you here: https://highlightsfootball.com/video/huddersfield-town-vs-swansea-city-highlight | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 03:05 - Mar 12 with 1715 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:53 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
You have some good points E20Jack. Also when you say that 'If it catches a player with studs up or point of elbow - then that is grounds for a red'.
With Ayews studs ended up going into Hoggs left leg, it was grounds for a red although there was more than that to consider.
Some posters keep on about being airborne as an automatic red, I had a look but could find no rules anywhere to say that.
At the end of the day a yellow could have been given, you will never be able to stop freaky incidents like that happening. It was a 50/50, Ayew was 100% committed, and so was Hogg. Accidental clashes of heads occur, where refs can see if there was any intent by one of them or not and decide what action to take. A different ref on a different day and it could have been a different decision. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:58]
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Accidental clashes of heads is different though.
A high foot is an offence (even if no contact is made) a high head isn't as it is in its natural position (I would hope) which is 6 foot in the air.
Yes he could have given Ayew a yellow, but it would have been a shocking decision and we would have clearly had an immense slice of fortune. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 03:11 - Mar 12 with 1709 views | swan65split |
thanks for that, its a different view from what I saw, there s no intent, but for a few secs he s airborne, and if you've ever played , you know its iffy, but i still think a talking too to both was enough , but if 1 wa to go both should have gone. | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 03:18 - Mar 12 with 1701 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 03:05 - Mar 12 by E20Jack |
Accidental clashes of heads is different though.
A high foot is an offence (even if no contact is made) a high head isn't as it is in its natural position (I would hope) which is 6 foot in the air.
Yes he could have given Ayew a yellow, but it would have been a shocking decision and we would have clearly had an immense slice of fortune. |
In the video I just posted, the commentator says that he thinks it was a genuine attempt at the ball from Ayew. I can see that his foot went up only as high as the ball so he could kick it. I'm all for safety, but rules saying that you can't kick a ball anymore if it's at a certain height, is a difficult one for the players. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 3:19]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:12 - Mar 12 with 1685 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 03:18 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
In the video I just posted, the commentator says that he thinks it was a genuine attempt at the ball from Ayew. I can see that his foot went up only as high as the ball so he could kick it. I'm all for safety, but rules saying that you can't kick a ball anymore if it's at a certain height, is a difficult one for the players. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 3:19]
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It was a genuine attempt for the ball.
Doesn't make a difference though unfortunately.
Of course you can kick a ball if its a certain height, but in Jordan's case if as a result it means your studs clatter into your opponent, then you are off.
That's the risk you take. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 4:14]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:18 - Mar 12 with 1682 views | jasper_T |
Commentators barely know the rules they still spout nonsense like "nothing malicious in it" and "was he the last man?" when none of that is a factor.
Even the most up to date chaps can't get their heads around "interfering with play" or "clear and obvious mistake", though to be fair that's many refs as well. |  | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:22 - Mar 12 with 1680 views | Swanseaman |
One thing I've thought of is the speed of Jonathan Hogg. Both he and Ayew went flat out to get that ball, but if Hogg had been just a split second slower, Ayew would have managed to kick that ball with no problem. If Hogg was just a little slower, Ayew would not have kicked Hogg at all and no studs would have gone into his left leg.
It was the exact pace of Hogg's sprinting, to get him up to Ayew in time, that managed to block Ayew's pass. That's how close it was to there being no incident at all.. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:31 - Mar 12 with 1674 views | Swanseaman |
E20Jack, when you say 'A high foot is an offence (even if no contact is made)', is that only when making a tackle on another player? [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 4:37]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:38 - Mar 12 with 1669 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:31 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
E20Jack, when you say 'A high foot is an offence (even if no contact is made)', is that only when making a tackle on another player? [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 4:37]
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No, if you go to intercept the ball and it is deemed too close to the proximity of someones head then it is a foul whether contact is made or not. Rightly so of course.
So intent is not a factor in determining dangerous play. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:47 - Mar 12 with 1664 views | jasper_T |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:22 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
One thing I've thought of is the speed of Jonathan Hogg. Both he and Ayew went flat out to get that ball, but if Hogg had been just a split second slower, Ayew would have managed to kick that ball with no problem. If Hogg was just a little slower, Ayew would not have kicked Hogg at all and no studs would have gone into his left leg.
It was the exact pace of Hogg's sprinting, to get him up to Ayew in time, that managed to block Ayew's pass. That's how close it was to there being no incident at all.. |
Victim-blaming only works if the victim was doing something completely out of the ordinary. "Hogg ran to the ball too fast" and "Ayew's leg bounced off Hogg's leg before studding him" aren't good foundations for appeal. | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 05:14 - Mar 12 with 1653 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:47 - Mar 12 by jasper_T |
Victim-blaming only works if the victim was doing something completely out of the ordinary. "Hogg ran to the ball too fast" and "Ayew's leg bounced off Hogg's leg before studding him" aren't good foundations for appeal. |
I wasn't victim blaming, was just showing how close Ayew came to kicking the ball and of no incident happening. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 05:16 - Mar 12 with 1652 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 04:38 - Mar 12 by E20Jack |
No, if you go to intercept the ball and it is deemed too close to the proximity of someones head then it is a foul whether contact is made or not. Rightly so of course.
So intent is not a factor in determining dangerous play. |
How high is too high when going for a 50/50 ball, they were both at about knee height I'd say.. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 05:30 - Mar 12 with 1649 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 05:16 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
How high is too high when going for a 50/50 ball, they were both at about knee height I'd say.. |
Anything over the height of the ball on the ground if contact is made I would guess. I would say the only mitigating factor would be force of contact. In this case it looked hefty enough to break a leg without much trouble.
Any impact in the knee area could potentially be devastating. [Post edited 12 Mar 2018 5:34]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 09:40 - Mar 12 with 1548 views | max936 |
Just seen the incidences again for the umpteenth time and the thing that comes to mind is Ayew as a habit of those sort of challenges we've seen it quite a few times where he goes to ground to stretch for the ball, can't see the point of an appeal no matter how many times or angles you see it, its a red card. |  |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 12:15 - Mar 12 with 1496 views | somersetsimon |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 18:25 - Mar 11 by Swanseaman |
I just wanted to know if it would help an appeal or not (that's if the club has made an appeal).
What I think could be argued is that Ayew, did not go 'into a challenge' at all (as you have said). And that's the point I'm making. It was Hogg who made the challenge, he came charging in and was wreckless.
Ayew already had the ball, he is running with the ball, it is 'his ball' as I see it. He hasn't made a challenge to take the ball off anyone, all he has actually done is gone to kick the ball.
If Hogg hadn't charged in there would have been no danger. [Post edited 11 Mar 2018 18:27]
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I think that's the only case we can make, that Ayew's actions wouldn't have been dangerous if Hogg hadn't recklessly jumped in. Don't think we'd win it, but it is something to consider. |  | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 12:56 - Mar 12 with 1468 views | SWANSEYE |
No appeal by the Swans he misses the next 3 |  | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 16:22 - Mar 12 with 1438 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 12:56 - Mar 12 by SWANSEYE |
No appeal by the Swans he misses the next 3 |
I think they made the right decision, I don't think it would have been overturned.. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 16:24 - Mar 12 with 1436 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 12:15 - Mar 12 by somersetsimon |
I think that's the only case we can make, that Ayew's actions wouldn't have been dangerous if Hogg hadn't recklessly jumped in. Don't think we'd win it, but it is something to consider. |
Although it was accidental, I doubt they could have overturned it because the incident could have ended up with bad injuries... | |
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