| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? 16:58 - Mar 11 with 10287 views | Swanseaman |
I've checked the video footage and it seems to show clearly that the ball was Ayew's. He had the ball at the start. He was going with the ball that was his. It was Jonathan Hogg who decided to charge in and make the dangerous challenge.
Is it right that when a player is running with the ball as Ayew was, that a defender can charge into him with his studs up? Hogg must have realized it would be a dangerous tackle, but he went in there. Ayew was just going with the ball, no intent on any type of foul at all..
here are the video grabs: You can open the images up in a new window for full size..
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 22:29 - Mar 11 with 1414 views | jack_lord |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 21:59 - Mar 11 by BytholWyn |
I've posted this on another thread - but for the hard of reading:
THE ONLY REASON AYEW MADE CONTACT WITH HOGG'S KNEE IS BECAUSE HOGG'S OUTSTRETCHED FOOT SLID ALONG AYEW'S INNER THIGH KNOCKING HIS LEG TO THE RIGHT AND ONTO HOGG'S LEFT KNEE.
Anyone arguing in favour of a red for Ayew without considering the above is just being plain ignorant or perverse. |
That is exactly what I said at the time and posted it in the twitter world. If someone stamped on my leg I'm sure the same would have happened. |  |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 22:50 - Mar 11 with 1390 views | swan65split |
I was in a meeting yesterday , and in a spare 5 minutes logged on, and it was just after the incident, and they showed a replay (the only time ive seen it) in effect the same as the ref and linesman, and I posted on PS at the time in the match day thread , "both players were high" in my opinion its a biased decision based on several things (see my other post) |  | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 22:54 - Mar 11 with 1386 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 22:29 - Mar 11 by jack_lord |
That is exactly what I said at the time and posted it in the twitter world. If someone stamped on my leg I'm sure the same would have happened. |
His foot wasn't high because his leg was stamped on. His leg was high because he lunged in with both feet off the ground. Which is why he was rightly sent off. [Post edited 11 Mar 2018 22:55]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:02 - Mar 11 with 1366 views | Darran |
I don’t post here as much as I used to during the week and this thread is one of the reasons why.
It’s 100% a straight red card and just because the other fella wasn’t sent off at the same doesn’t make Ayews not a sending off.
Swansea City have some stupid fuçking fans. |  |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:05 - Mar 11 with 1364 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 21:59 - Mar 11 by BytholWyn |
I've posted this on another thread - but for the hard of reading:
THE ONLY REASON AYEW MADE CONTACT WITH HOGG'S KNEE IS BECAUSE HOGG'S OUTSTRETCHED FOOT SLID ALONG AYEW'S INNER THIGH KNOCKING HIS LEG TO THE RIGHT AND ONTO HOGG'S LEFT KNEE.
Anyone arguing in favour of a red for Ayew without considering the above is just being plain ignorant or perverse. |
I wrote this on the match day thread just after the finish:
'I just saw the Jordan Ayew tackle from another angle in slo mo. His foot hits the other players right leg then bounces off it and hits into the left leg.
Not the full on lounge it first looked like.. ' | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:11 - Mar 11 with 1356 views | union_jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:05 - Mar 11 by Swanseaman |
I wrote this on the match day thread just after the finish:
'I just saw the Jordan Ayew tackle from another angle in slo mo. His foot hits the other players right leg then bounces off it and hits into the left leg.
Not the full on lounge it first looked like.. ' |
As much as I'd like you to be right, and a great thread by the way regardless of others' opinions on here  , the fact his foot hits the left leg in a dangerous way is proof he wasn't under control. That is regardless that it was deflected off Hogg's right leg that was in its way down to Ayew's leg.
It's one of those unfortunate things but he lost control and suffered the consequences.
We all know Hogg should have suffered the same fate but it didn't happen. |  |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:18 - Mar 11 with 1340 views | swan65split |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:02 - Mar 11 by Darran |
I don’t post here as much as I used to during the week and this thread is one of the reasons why.
It’s 100% a straight red card and just because the other fella wasn’t sent off at the same doesn’t make Ayews not a sending off.
Swansea City have some stupid fuçking fans. |
lol
I forgive you fellow Baglanite , lol
its all about about opinions thats what makes it so magical | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:19 - Mar 11 with 1334 views | Darran |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:18 - Mar 11 by swan65split |
lol
I forgive you fellow Baglanite , lol
its all about about opinions thats what makes it so magical |
There’s no opinion about it Chris it’s 100% a red. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:23 - Mar 11 with 1320 views | swan65split |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:19 - Mar 11 by Darran |
There’s no opinion about it Chris it’s 100% a red. |
I agree Dar , Ayew was airborne, but the terrier was also intent on doing something, question should be why 1 and not the other.
he chickened out (oliver) | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:27 - Mar 11 with 1305 views | ZZoric |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:11 - Mar 11 by union_jack |
As much as I'd like you to be right, and a great thread by the way regardless of others' opinions on here , the fact his foot hits the left leg in a dangerous way is proof he wasn't under control. That is regardless that it was deflected off Hogg's right leg that was in its way down to Ayew's leg.
It's one of those unfortunate things but he lost control and suffered the consequences.
We all know Hogg should have suffered the same fate but it didn't happen. |
yet another pointless, nothing post. turgid, worthless
you've opened a can ur incapable of dealing with, smug ol' incapable unionist.......... |  | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:28 - Mar 11 with 1304 views | union_jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:27 - Mar 11 by ZZoric |
yet another pointless, nothing post. turgid, worthless
you've opened a can ur incapable of dealing with, smug ol' incapable unionist.......... |
Anyone?  | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:39 - Mar 11 with 1283 views | jack_lord |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 22:54 - Mar 11 by E20Jack |
His foot wasn't high because his leg was stamped on. His leg was high because he lunged in with both feet off the ground. Which is why he was rightly sent off. [Post edited 11 Mar 2018 22:55]
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I disagree about why is leg was high. He did have his feet off the ground at at point in time. When I saw it from one angle after the game I said red's are given for that.
Was Naughton's red rescinded for the tackle against Sunderland? | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:40 - Mar 11 with 1283 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:11 - Mar 11 by union_jack |
As much as I'd like you to be right, and a great thread by the way regardless of others' opinions on here , the fact his foot hits the left leg in a dangerous way is proof he wasn't under control. That is regardless that it was deflected off Hogg's right leg that was in its way down to Ayew's leg.
It's one of those unfortunate things but he lost control and suffered the consequences.
We all know Hogg should have suffered the same fate but it didn't happen. |
That's where I am confused. I've checked the video again and you can see that Ayew has tried to kick the ball. I've added 2 frame grabs below that show he gets to the ball, looks like his foot does actually or almost touch it.
Hogg flying at him at such a reckless pace of knots, surely that could be deemed as catching Ayew unaware. Why can't it be argued that it was an accident. We have accidental hand ball, accidental injuries during the game, accidentally falling into another player.
He wasn't flying off the air during the contact, he had made a small jump prior to, but landed on the ground, and had one leg and one arm on the ground when he got to the ball.
His leg did make contact with Hoggs right leg, but Ayew's leg was not outstretched and no studs were facing. He had a bent leg and the initial contact was with the front part of his football boot (same as used to kick the ball). It was that contact that rebounded Ayew's leg into Hoggs left leg, that changed the 2nd contact into a straight leg studs facing one.
Lots of different opinions, that's one thing that stands out, it isn't one of those where 100% of everyone is certain it was a red.
I think it could have been given a yellow at the time and there wouldn't have been much of a fuss made about it. I've seen plenty worse get yellows myself.
Is it one worth appealing/have they appealed already I'm not sure. If there is any ruling that can take into account he was only trying to get the ball and that it was a total accident, that could affect the judgement..
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:44 - Mar 11 with 1275 views | union_jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:40 - Mar 11 by Swanseaman |
That's where I am confused. I've checked the video again and you can see that Ayew has tried to kick the ball. I've added 2 frame grabs below that show he gets to the ball, looks like his foot does actually or almost touch it.
Hogg flying at him at such a reckless pace of knots, surely that could be deemed as catching Ayew unaware. Why can't it be argued that it was an accident. We have accidental hand ball, accidental injuries during the game, accidentally falling into another player.
He wasn't flying off the air during the contact, he had made a small jump prior to, but landed on the ground, and had one leg and one arm on the ground when he got to the ball.
His leg did make contact with Hoggs right leg, but Ayew's leg was not outstretched and no studs were facing. He had a bent leg and the initial contact was with the front part of his football boot (same as used to kick the ball). It was that contact that rebounded Ayew's leg into Hoggs left leg, that changed the 2nd contact into a straight leg studs facing one.
Lots of different opinions, that's one thing that stands out, it isn't one of those where 100% of everyone is certain it was a red.
I think it could have been given a yellow at the time and there wouldn't have been much of a fuss made about it. I've seen plenty worse get yellows myself.
Is it one worth appealing/have they appealed already I'm not sure. If there is any ruling that can take into account he was only trying to get the ball and that it was a total accident, that could affect the judgement..
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You're right about the differing opinions, even at pundit level. On that basis, it's worth an appeal I reckon. Undoubtedly they'll go through it in the same way you have and more.
We can live in hope. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:45 - Mar 11 with 1274 views | swan65split |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:40 - Mar 11 by Swanseaman |
That's where I am confused. I've checked the video again and you can see that Ayew has tried to kick the ball. I've added 2 frame grabs below that show he gets to the ball, looks like his foot does actually or almost touch it.
Hogg flying at him at such a reckless pace of knots, surely that could be deemed as catching Ayew unaware. Why can't it be argued that it was an accident. We have accidental hand ball, accidental injuries during the game, accidentally falling into another player.
He wasn't flying off the air during the contact, he had made a small jump prior to, but landed on the ground, and had one leg and one arm on the ground when he got to the ball.
His leg did make contact with Hoggs right leg, but Ayew's leg was not outstretched and no studs were facing. He had a bent leg and the initial contact was with the front part of his football boot (same as used to kick the ball). It was that contact that rebounded Ayew's leg into Hoggs left leg, that changed the 2nd contact into a straight leg studs facing one.
Lots of different opinions, that's one thing that stands out, it isn't one of those where 100% of everyone is certain it was a red.
I think it could have been given a yellow at the time and there wouldn't have been much of a fuss made about it. I've seen plenty worse get yellows myself.
Is it one worth appealing/have they appealed already I'm not sure. If there is any ruling that can take into account he was only trying to get the ball and that it was a total accident, that could affect the judgement..
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at one stage hes "airborne" diving in ......thats an off all round | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:50 - Mar 11 with 1261 views | jack_lord |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:45 - Mar 11 by swan65split |
at one stage hes "airborne" diving in ......thats an off all round |
When people are in the air attacking a corner, are they ro be sent off? *Devil's advocate | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:50 - Mar 11 with 1261 views | Swanseaman |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:45 - Mar 11 by swan65split |
at one stage hes "airborne" diving in ......thats an off all round |
Are you certain about that, I've heard about being airborne, which Ayew wasn't.
He did make a small jump in the air prior to, but then landed, that must be viewed differently to flying into someone airborne.
[Post edited 11 Mar 2018 23:54]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:55 - Mar 11 with 1250 views | ZZoric |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:44 - Mar 11 by union_jack |
You're right about the differing opinions, even at pundit level. On that basis, it's worth an appeal I reckon. Undoubtedly they'll go through it in the same way you have and more.
We can live in hope. |
is that ur bet shot, really? - yet again u said nothing, nothing u utter pleb
(u see, those that dish out................karma) | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 00:00 - Mar 12 with 1243 views | union_jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:55 - Mar 11 by ZZoric |
is that ur bet shot, really? - yet again u said nothing, nothing u utter pleb
(u see, those that dish out................karma) |
Step away from the keyboard!!
It's dangerous in your hands.
Seriously now mate, you are showing signs of obsession and you need to get over it ok?
I'd seek help because your actions are not healthy.
Sleep well.
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 00:11 - Mar 12 with 1223 views | ZZoric |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 00:00 - Mar 12 by union_jack |
Step away from the keyboard!!
It's dangerous in your hands.
Seriously now mate, you are showing signs of obsession and you need to get over it ok?
I'd seek help because your actions are not healthy.
Sleep well.
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nope - try harder at deflection ol man. seriously. nowhere to hide now
u made the decision to personally abuse and u continue to do so. A bully
folk like u - unopinionated bullies - need not be tolerated. | | | |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 01:29 - Mar 12 with 1195 views | TheResurrection |
We should never be appealing this. Would be sheer madness.
The best that could happen is something that would never happen, and that's their guy getting retrospective action against him. As yes, I agree, wholeheartedly he should have gone too.
I also don't think Ayew went in deliberately and I think his momentum has done for him here in a fully committed and honest challenge.
If all the panel would have is the actual footage in real time to analyse we may have a case. However, when it's slowed down and you see his leg high connect with their chumps shin/knee, then it's never gonna happen.
This would be an extra game out so forget it. |  |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 01:36 - Mar 12 with 1192 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:39 - Mar 11 by jack_lord |
I disagree about why is leg was high. He did have his feet off the ground at at point in time. When I saw it from one angle after the game I said red's are given for that.
Was Naughton's red rescinded for the tackle against Sunderland? |
Nothing to disagree about. look at the photos, his leg was high well before any contact, his leg was high due to the ball being high - so he lunched in. It changed course (his leg) due to taking a deflection off Hogg's other leg, but that doesn't matter - it is irrelevant. That's what can happen in a studs up challenge, which is why they are not allowed. They are not controlled as any change in course cannot be stopped. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:10 - Mar 12 with 1182 views | Swanseaman |
I've Just had a quick check on the rules and the basic rule breaks:
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charges, jumps at, kicks or attempts to kick, pushes, strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt), tackles or challenges, trips or attempts to trip
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the only one of those that could apply to Ayew I would say is the 'tackles or challenges', because it was a 50/50 challenge for the ball.
Next to look at is was it a careless challenge, a Reckless challenge or Using excessive force?
I would say it was a careless challenge at most, possibly it could be viewed as reckless, although for me I think that Hogg was the most Reckless of the 2 as it was blatantly obvious that Ayew was running right with that ball.
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Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.
SENDING-OFF OFFENCES
A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:
serious foul play
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
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Ayew didn't 'lunge at an opponent', he went in to kick the ball. There are no rules saying that because his both feet left the ground (he jumped prior to landing on the ground to get the ball) is an automatic red.
The Fact that Hogg was charging like bull at Ayew, he was definitely more in the wrong I think and was the main cause of the dangerous situation.
Intent does count towards the offence. If Ayew had no idea that there was any danger, if it could be viewed as accidental, then it's neither 'Using excessive force' or 'serious foul play'.
[Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:25]
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:19 - Mar 12 with 1176 views | E20Jack |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:10 - Mar 12 by Swanseaman |
I've Just had a quick check on the rules and the basic rule breaks:
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charges, jumps at, kicks or attempts to kick, pushes, strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt), tackles or challenges, trips or attempts to trip
====
the only one of those that could apply to Ayew I would say is the 'tackles or challenges', because it was a 50/50 challenge for the ball.
Next to look at is was it a careless challenge, a Reckless challenge or Using excessive force?
I would say it was a careless challenge at most, possibly it could be viewed as reckless, although for me I think that Hogg was the most Reckless of the 2 as it was blatantly obvious that Ayew was running right with that ball.
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Careless is when a player shows a lack of attention or consideration when making a challenge or acts without precaution. No disciplinary sanction is needed
Reckless is when a player acts with disregard to the danger to, or consequences for, an opponent and must be cautioned
Using excessive force is when a player exceeds the necessary use of force and endangers the safety of an opponent and must be sent off
PLAYING IN A DANGEROUS MANNER is any action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player themself) and includes preventing a nearby opponent from playing the ball for fear of injury.
SENDING-OFF OFFENCES
A player, substitute or substituted player who commits any of the following offences is sent off:
serious foul play
Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.
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Ayew didn't 'lunge at an opponent', he went in to kick the ball. There are no rules saying that because his both feet left the ground (he jumped prior to landing on the ground to get the ball) is an automatic red.
The Fact that Hogg was charging like bull at Ayew, he was definitely more in the wrong I think and was the main cause of the dangerous situation.
Intent does count towards the offence. If Ayew had no idea that there was any danger, if it could be viewed as accidental, then it's neither 'Using excessive force' or 'serious foul play'.
[Post edited 12 Mar 2018 2:25]
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I think the error you keep making is alluding to one was worse than the other as a defence as to why Jordan should not be sent off.
It is not a one or the other situation. Yes Hogg should have gone too, but that is a side issue to Jordans red, not a defence as to why his wasnt. | |
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| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 02:27 - Mar 12 with 1169 views | jasper_T |
| Jordan Ayew's Red Card - Could this be evidence he is innocent, or not??? on 23:50 - Mar 11 by jack_lord |
When people are in the air attacking a corner, are they ro be sent off? *Devil's advocate |
If they are leading with their studs (or an elbow) yeah. | | | |
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