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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 22:25 - May 20 by QPRDave
No of course not, but i haven't seen the campaigners blaming their own supporters They even blame Margaret Thatcher before they blame the ticket less fans that rushed in
Jeez - your still believing the completely false story about the ticketless fans storming the ground??? This was put around by the South Yorkshire Police to cover their backs. The crush outside was due to the lack of open turnstiles which caused a huge delay of fans getting in, and the lack of police control. Then of course they opened one of the exits and led the fans into an area that was already full, rather than to areas that were half empty.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 08:13 - May 21 with 2643 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 21:41 - May 20 by QPRDave
they'll be happy once they get their payout
That is a sick response. Joseph Daniel McCarthy was in my class at school for 7 years. He was brought up in Ealing, went to School in Hammersmith and had the misfortune to pick Sheffield as his choice of Uni, as I had done, but I did not go in the end.
If Mrs McCarthy does get a payout for her son, then I hope she puts in an added claim for her husband Sean who could not cope with the loss of Joe and died within a year of what the doctors could only put down to a broken heart for the loss of his 21 year old son.
I still remember the days running up to his funeral at Ealing Abbey as if it was yesterday, the funeral being one of the first unofficial school reunions for our year and everyone discussing the eerie words of Fr Feltzman back in the Upper Sixth that statistics said that within 10 years of us leaving school one of us would have died and he was proven right. I can remember wondering why Jerry, Joe's brother who was a year older than us at school, appeared to be handling it so well, but it is obvious now he was just unable to accept that it was really happening.
Whether or not you can apportion any blame to Liverpool fans for any part in this disaster, this was not just a remote event that happened to a load of northern scousers, there were lives shattered and torn apart for hundreds of others apart from the 96 and I think they deserve a little better than a glib comment about them looking for a payout.
Dave - I remember the day very well we played Middelsborough at home in a 0-0 draw and reports coming through during the game and on the way home said there had been trouble. I got home to find my Mum crying and she gave me a big hug and I sat and watched the coverage on the news thinking how it could have been me. Most people who went to games at that time would have at some point been caught against the old crash barriers due to surges and due to people being packed into pens. Motson noticed the crowd issues at 2.40 and this should have been picked up and acted upon. The opening of the outer gate increased the pressure on the centre pens.
I think it has been said may times on this and other sites that mistakes were made that day and it could have been any team in the country that day in Sheffield. The attempt to cover up the truth and blame it on the Liverpool Fans started on Day 1 and the Police, Press and Goverments ( both Tory and Labour) since then is an absolute disgrace. Last nights programme proved this and the Families and loved ones of the victims should be applauded for their continued fight to find out the truth. Not once have I heard anyone connected with these groups mention compensenation. What they want is Justice.
Stonebridgers
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 09:17 - May 21 with 2580 views
The only enjoyable bit of the programme was seeing Jack Straw squirming when asked if he was proud of his enquiry.
Or Blair's written comments on hearing another review was being organised "Why? what's the point?"
The politicians involved should be banged up .... but, of course they won't, because we live in a democracy and they act with our best interests at heart, of course they do. They proposed caging the fans in, and that's what really did the damage.
Why does it feel like R'SWiPe is still on the books? Yer Couldn't Make It Up.Well Done Me!
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 09:57 - May 21 with 2549 views
It seems that the South Yorkshire Police and their attack dog MacKenzie have done their job too well. Even an official enquiry proving otherwise, their lies have been so indeliably marked into the country's psyche that people don't believe the truth.
Another example of the elite taking advantage of the ordinary person. Their failure lead to such a catastrophic loss of life (not even getting into the fact that 41 people who shouldn't have died did because the police were busy covering their arses which actually made want to vomit when I read it) yet they just play on our tribalism and watch us tear each other apart while they all get off scot free.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 10:07 - May 21 with 2532 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 08:29 - May 21 by A40Bosh
That is a sick response. Joseph Daniel McCarthy was in my class at school for 7 years. He was brought up in Ealing, went to School in Hammersmith and had the misfortune to pick Sheffield as his choice of Uni, as I had done, but I did not go in the end.
If Mrs McCarthy does get a payout for her son, then I hope she puts in an added claim for her husband Sean who could not cope with the loss of Joe and died within a year of what the doctors could only put down to a broken heart for the loss of his 21 year old son.
I still remember the days running up to his funeral at Ealing Abbey as if it was yesterday, the funeral being one of the first unofficial school reunions for our year and everyone discussing the eerie words of Fr Feltzman back in the Upper Sixth that statistics said that within 10 years of us leaving school one of us would have died and he was proven right. I can remember wondering why Jerry, Joe's brother who was a year older than us at school, appeared to be handling it so well, but it is obvious now he was just unable to accept that it was really happening.
Whether or not you can apportion any blame to Liverpool fans for any part in this disaster, this was not just a remote event that happened to a load of northern scousers, there were lives shattered and torn apart for hundreds of others apart from the 96 and I think they deserve a little better than a glib comment about them looking for a payout.
As a mother and an Rs fan, that made me cry. There but for the grace of god.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 10:21 - May 21 with 2518 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 08:54 - May 21 by stonebridgers
Dave - I remember the day very well we played Middelsborough at home in a 0-0 draw and reports coming through during the game and on the way home said there had been trouble. I got home to find my Mum crying and she gave me a big hug and I sat and watched the coverage on the news thinking how it could have been me. Most people who went to games at that time would have at some point been caught against the old crash barriers due to surges and due to people being packed into pens. Motson noticed the crowd issues at 2.40 and this should have been picked up and acted upon. The opening of the outer gate increased the pressure on the centre pens.
I think it has been said may times on this and other sites that mistakes were made that day and it could have been any team in the country that day in Sheffield. The attempt to cover up the truth and blame it on the Liverpool Fans started on Day 1 and the Police, Press and Goverments ( both Tory and Labour) since then is an absolute disgrace. Last nights programme proved this and the Families and loved ones of the victims should be applauded for their continued fight to find out the truth. Not once have I heard anyone connected with these groups mention compensenation. What they want is Justice.
i was there on the day, didn't go the R's that day as a mate invited me (from Nottingham) and i thought it would be a good day out. I saw it all unfolding from the side where the TV cameras were and you could tell something awful was happening from teh off.
HOwever, in context, these were the days of hooliganism (I said to my 20 year old son at Anfield on Sunday that, in the old days of the 70s and 80s, you would never wear colours at away grounds for fear of getting beaten up), so, when this unfolded, there were huge boos from all other 3 sides, thinking it was yet more riotous behaviour.
there were, of course, no mobile phones, so I remember rushing out when we knew to a very small extent what had happened, to find a phone box and make calls to all to say I was ok.
I stil remain shocked by the terrible conspiracies and cock-ups (and the "payout" comment above is just sick - look at those poor parents on Panrama last night - as a parent, i can't begin to imagine what they have been through).
Not a particlaur claim to fame, but, as i said to my son, having atttended this game and the game at the Etihad last season, I reckon i have been to two of the most famous/infamous games in history.
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 08:29 - May 21 by A40Bosh
That is a sick response. Joseph Daniel McCarthy was in my class at school for 7 years. He was brought up in Ealing, went to School in Hammersmith and had the misfortune to pick Sheffield as his choice of Uni, as I had done, but I did not go in the end.
If Mrs McCarthy does get a payout for her son, then I hope she puts in an added claim for her husband Sean who could not cope with the loss of Joe and died within a year of what the doctors could only put down to a broken heart for the loss of his 21 year old son.
I still remember the days running up to his funeral at Ealing Abbey as if it was yesterday, the funeral being one of the first unofficial school reunions for our year and everyone discussing the eerie words of Fr Feltzman back in the Upper Sixth that statistics said that within 10 years of us leaving school one of us would have died and he was proven right. I can remember wondering why Jerry, Joe's brother who was a year older than us at school, appeared to be handling it so well, but it is obvious now he was just unable to accept that it was really happening.
Whether or not you can apportion any blame to Liverpool fans for any part in this disaster, this was not just a remote event that happened to a load of northern scousers, there were lives shattered and torn apart for hundreds of others apart from the 96 and I think they deserve a little better than a glib comment about them looking for a payout.
Beautifully put.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
I got home from the Middlesbro game with my home phone (no mobiles, interweb etc in them there days) ringing and ringing from my Mum, Dad, family & friends all checking I was OK and did I hear what happened.
Even though I had no need to be at that game, it's not inconcievable for neutrals to go to such a high profile game and everyone knowing how much I enjoyed football wanted to check I wasn't there.
I have no problem in admitting I too believe the lies and conspirircies to begin with but it became clear as time went on they were exactly that.
The fact that some people are still so rigid and cannot see the obvious both frustrates and saddends me.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 11:50 - May 21 with 2404 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 00:49 - May 21 by HollowayRanger
didnt watch it but its repeated thursday /friday moring 1.10 am so will tappe it
seem to remember it was like a perfect storm they gave liverpool fans the wrong end then there was an accident on the motorway which delayed the fans no one thought to delay kick off fans pushed and pushed wanting to get in police didnt control them and open a gate from which they most went into the middle pen and not the sides ,then of course the police started hitting fans trying to get on pitch to escape crush but by then it was already too late for some
and the cover up began
i know most want standing stands again but i was in a small crush once im sure most of us have been ,my feet didnt touch the ground and my arms were pinned to my sides for no more then 30 seconds but it scared me as there was nothing i could do to recover ,what those poor fans went though must never happen again
Thing is, Hillsborough shouldn't be used as an argument against standing at football grounds whatsoever. The deaths that day were down to a great many more factors before you can come to the argument against standing.
Plus, anyway, technology's come on leaps and bounds since then, and what the FSA are asking for and have trialled on a small scale is crash barriers between every two rows, so that means that the geezer behind you is the only one who can fall into you
QPR - "shit but local"
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 11:57 - May 21 with 2394 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 11:50 - May 21 by QPunkR
Thing is, Hillsborough shouldn't be used as an argument against standing at football grounds whatsoever. The deaths that day were down to a great many more factors before you can come to the argument against standing.
Plus, anyway, technology's come on leaps and bounds since then, and what the FSA are asking for and have trialled on a small scale is crash barriers between every two rows, so that means that the geezer behind you is the only one who can fall into you
Hillsborough was used as an opportunity to force through all-seater stadiums. No one could really complain too strongly and the government knew that.
As well as all the reasons stated, fences were a big problem too. When we had that overcrowding at home to West Ham, fans were able to get onto the pitch and alleviate the pressure preventing another disaster simply because we were one of the few grounds in the country at the time that didn't have fencing. Chelsea had and electric wire across the top of theirs.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:04 - May 21 with 2379 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 11:57 - May 21 by Juzzie
Hillsborough was used as an opportunity to force through all-seater stadiums. No one could really complain too strongly and the government knew that.
As well as all the reasons stated, fences were a big problem too. When we had that overcrowding at home to West Ham, fans were able to get onto the pitch and alleviate the pressure preventing another disaster simply because we were one of the few grounds in the country at the time that didn't have fencing. Chelsea had and electric wire across the top of theirs.
Yah that's my point. They used it at the time to spur on the gentrification of football, or as they saw it at the time, the de-hooliganisation. We don't have those problems any more (or at least at nowhere near those levels) so there's absolutely no need to enforce all-seating bore-fest arenas. Only obstacle is A) the people who keep bringing up Hillsborough as a misinformed counterargument and B) the fuzz, who like seats as they think they can pinpoint troublemakers more easily
QPR - "shit but local"
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:13 - May 21 with 2361 views
As much as I was saddened,infuriated and wound up by the crass stupid and glib comments of QPRDave &, to a slightly lesser degree, paul parker on this thread yesterday, I am encouraged today by the humane and empathetic responses of ;
Stanisgod, gobbles, richranger, Holloway Ranger (in decent non-WalterMittyesqueLesboSpunkReceptacleFantasy comment shock! ) stonebridgers, ShotKneesHoop, robith, HarrowRoadR, sevenhoop, Juzzie, Brian McCarthy
and as Brian wrote perhaps most of all A40Bosh who summed it all up simply and clearly.
To these posters:
To the grieving,determined,steadfast relatives of the 96 and people of Liverpool:
[That's that. I'll never comment on LFW on this issue again.]
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:35 - May 21 with 2331 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:04 - May 21 by QPunkR
Yah that's my point. They used it at the time to spur on the gentrification of football, or as they saw it at the time, the de-hooliganisation. We don't have those problems any more (or at least at nowhere near those levels) so there's absolutely no need to enforce all-seating bore-fest arenas. Only obstacle is A) the people who keep bringing up Hillsborough as a misinformed counterargument and B) the fuzz, who like seats as they think they can pinpoint troublemakers more easily
Yeah, I know that was the point, just adding to it :o)
I understand the reason for giving Forest the bigger Kop end was becuase it's south facing and Liverpool the Leppings Lane end is because it's north facing and the Police didn't want fans circling around the ground and potentially engaging with each other.
Talk about naivety. So, all fans from Liverpool will be travelling from the west/north and all fans from Nottingham from the south? Yeah right, and and all Man Utd fans live in Manchester.....
Anyone who knew anything about football would've known Liverpool should have been given the Kop end.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:37 - May 21 with 2148 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 08:29 - May 21 by A40Bosh
That is a sick response. Joseph Daniel McCarthy was in my class at school for 7 years. He was brought up in Ealing, went to School in Hammersmith and had the misfortune to pick Sheffield as his choice of Uni, as I had done, but I did not go in the end.
If Mrs McCarthy does get a payout for her son, then I hope she puts in an added claim for her husband Sean who could not cope with the loss of Joe and died within a year of what the doctors could only put down to a broken heart for the loss of his 21 year old son.
I still remember the days running up to his funeral at Ealing Abbey as if it was yesterday, the funeral being one of the first unofficial school reunions for our year and everyone discussing the eerie words of Fr Feltzman back in the Upper Sixth that statistics said that within 10 years of us leaving school one of us would have died and he was proven right. I can remember wondering why Jerry, Joe's brother who was a year older than us at school, appeared to be handling it so well, but it is obvious now he was just unable to accept that it was really happening.
Whether or not you can apportion any blame to Liverpool fans for any part in this disaster, this was not just a remote event that happened to a load of northern scousers, there were lives shattered and torn apart for hundreds of others apart from the 96 and I think they deserve a little better than a glib comment about them looking for a payout.
Eloquent and moving, thank you for sharing
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:39 - May 21 with 2143 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:35 - May 21 by Juzzie
Yeah, I know that was the point, just adding to it :o)
I understand the reason for giving Forest the bigger Kop end was becuase it's south facing and Liverpool the Leppings Lane end is because it's north facing and the Police didn't want fans circling around the ground and potentially engaging with each other.
Talk about naivety. So, all fans from Liverpool will be travelling from the west/north and all fans from Nottingham from the south? Yeah right, and and all Man Utd fans live in Manchester.....
Anyone who knew anything about football would've known Liverpool should have been given the Kop end.
I know you know that was my point dude, I was just re-reiterating it again
Think I need a lie-down!
QPR - "shit but local"
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:45 - May 21 with 2126 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:39 - May 21 by QPunkR
I know you know that was my point dude, I was just re-reiterating it again
Think I need a lie-down!
watching it just angered me..the lies and conspiracies just to appease maggie and get a few knighthoods...did those they interviewed last night from the "establishment" look really sorry??? then a few years back qpr go to selhurst and i see a metal gate, padlocked and some thought me mad! hahahaha i may be but with reason..... the fences went up due to hooliganism that was rife thru the game..all this occurred with the kings cross fire and soon after heysels and bradford fire, society learnt new lessons and things had to improve....hopefully the new inquest with finally give closure. RIP 96.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:47 - May 21 with 2115 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 22:29 - May 20 by QPRDave
Shut your gob tw*t.....
Really mature mate, if that's the sum total of your argument back then ...... Just find it incredible that the proof is there and yet you come out with a statement that's plainly wrong, apoligize for calling you an idiot, it was late
It's being so happy that keeps me going.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:49 - May 21 with 2110 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 00:11 - May 21 by 18StoneOfHoop
QPRDave, The presenter Peter Marshall (who was actually there on the day) & the programme's evidence make it overwhelmingly and abundantly clear,for even the most inelastic of kneejerk 'it's a simple black and white issue' dim prejudiced minds,that it was in fact - (inadvertently & without of course any malice aforethought) - the South Yorkshire Police who were most at fault for the 96 fans death not other debased drunk LFC fans who were let in at the wrong place by the incompetent police.
The whole mindset of the time - rampant football hooliganism a la 'Wall at Luton was a real & serious 80's problem - allowed politicians of both wings,press and police to collude in the subsequent case and cover-up and created the great big oft-repeated lie that pissed-up scousers killed their own. Then Heysel is always brought in for comparisons sake when it would be fairer to judge each situation objectively and fairly on it's own merits rather than apply this simplistic tit-for-tat linkage.
Whatever, 'Always the victims,it's never your fault' seems to be your point of view without watching one minute of the programme and your opinion is never going to change whatever incontrovertible evidence is presented before you. Fair enough, you know your own mind,carry on with your limited blinkered narrow vision tunnel assumption-making darkness if you so choose.
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 12:13 - May 21 by 18StoneOfHoop
As much as I was saddened,infuriated and wound up by the crass stupid and glib comments of QPRDave &, to a slightly lesser degree, paul parker on this thread yesterday, I am encouraged today by the humane and empathetic responses of ;
Stanisgod, gobbles, richranger, Holloway Ranger (in decent non-WalterMittyesqueLesboSpunkReceptacleFantasy comment shock! ) stonebridgers, ShotKneesHoop, robith, HarrowRoadR, sevenhoop, Juzzie, Brian McCarthy
and as Brian wrote perhaps most of all A40Bosh who summed it all up simply and clearly.
To these posters:
To the grieving,determined,steadfast relatives of the 96 and people of Liverpool:
[That's that. I'll never comment on LFW on this issue again.]
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
OI! What about me, I started it.
It's being so happy that keeps me going.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 13:02 - May 21 with 2084 views
Responsibility to be divided between the police and the FA.
The police because they allowed a flood of people into a stadium and then into a stand when safe access could not be assured. The FA because in the event of the police allowing access there was no feed back mechanism to indicate that the stand was full (that should have been something in the absent FA certificate).
This wasn't a riot. This was police allowing access to a place under the control of the FA.
Read the Hillsborough Independent Panel report, which concluded "no Liverpool fans were responsible in any way for the disaster", that the cause was "lack of police control" and that the safety of the crowd was compromised at every level. Also the report referenced the attempts of the SY Police to cover their arses and a local MP feeding spurious comments to the media.
I cant stand scousers. But this was nothing more than a cover up on a national level across all agencies involved.
Get educated, then comment.
ATAF
ATAF.
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 13:53 - May 21 with 2041 views
Probably the most boring 0-0 draw, i remember it being really sunny.
But then the reports came through on peoples radios and standing there was possibly the most saddening / sickening / scary thing i've experienced at a football match - you could see people looking at each other in disbelief, not saying a word but everyone was thinking the same thing, that could be us !!
I've spent years spouting off about the Liverpool fans (based on that one piece of footage) crushing their own.
I was suckered into the conspiracy and to be honest I feel pretty guilty at the ill-informed opinions i held.
Not any more - RIP96
I've found a team sheet for the weekend - anyone interested ?
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Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 14:05 - May 21 with 2026 views
Watching the Hilsboro programme, BBC1 on 13:53 - May 21 by westolian
I was in the Loft that day.
Probably the most boring 0-0 draw, i remember it being really sunny.
But then the reports came through on peoples radios and standing there was possibly the most saddening / sickening / scary thing i've experienced at a football match - you could see people looking at each other in disbelief, not saying a word but everyone was thinking the same thing, that could be us !!
I've spent years spouting off about the Liverpool fans (based on that one piece of footage) crushing their own.
I was suckered into the conspiracy and to be honest I feel pretty guilty at the ill-informed opinions i held.
Not any more - RIP96
Nice one. You weren't alone in being suckered by plod, government an murdoch's papers.
Some of the comments in this thread are beyond belief so I'll focus on the classier ones and say no more....jesus wept.
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