| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 12:53 - Nov 25 with 1363 views | E15Hoop |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 22:18 - Nov 24 by stainrods_elbow |
I've said my piece on this, but whatever the logistics in Clive's writing life, it still feels a bit weirdly unsttling to me to be ostensibly supporting the manager while preparing a piece on his departure - a bit like telling a friend how much you love him while writing his funeral euology! (For a bit of context, I'm enough of a primititive poet to feel that when you use words to conjure anything, it gives them a reality, which is why I worry.)
I suspect the emotive support for Marti and the hatred/scapegoating of Nourry is a more dubious dichotomy than some can bear to admit and may actually be a psychological denial of a more equivocal underlying attitude that might be more authentic. Black and white thinking is so much comforting to some than cultivating complexity. At any rate, and as I've pointed out, Marti told the press less than three months ago he was pretty much entirely satisfied with our summer recruitment, so the Nourry /Cifuentes love-hateism needs at least to be somewhat curdled regardless. [Post edited 24 Nov 22:19]
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Talking about " dubious dichotomies", isn't this piece of yours an embodiment of one itself?
On the one hand you're irrationally criticising Clive for having the foresight to be prepared for what is a perfectly logical assumption, based on the general culture in football across all the major leagues, i.e. to make the Head Coach/ manager the scapegoat whenever all things head south, as if its a direct, personal betrayal of said Head Coach.
Then in the next breath, you criticise the Head Coach yourself and show some level of support for the Chief Scapegoater, namely the CEO.
Of all the supposedly non black and white issues that we've debated on this Forum over God knows how many years now, I would suggest this is actually one of the more straightforward and authentically black and white ones! |  | |  |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 14:24 - Nov 25 with 1105 views | QPR_Jim |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 22:18 - Nov 24 by stainrods_elbow |
I've said my piece on this, but whatever the logistics in Clive's writing life, it still feels a bit weirdly unsttling to me to be ostensibly supporting the manager while preparing a piece on his departure - a bit like telling a friend how much you love him while writing his funeral euology! (For a bit of context, I'm enough of a primititive poet to feel that when you use words to conjure anything, it gives them a reality, which is why I worry.)
I suspect the emotive support for Marti and the hatred/scapegoating of Nourry is a more dubious dichotomy than some can bear to admit and may actually be a psychological denial of a more equivocal underlying attitude that might be more authentic. Black and white thinking is so much comforting to some than cultivating complexity. At any rate, and as I've pointed out, Marti told the press less than three months ago he was pretty much entirely satisfied with our summer recruitment, so the Nourry /Cifuentes love-hateism needs at least to be somewhat curdled regardless. [Post edited 24 Nov 22:19]
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The irony of your comment is that you think that the people advocating for Nourry to be replaced or removed from involvement with the first team are emotive. Yet it's only you saying that they hate Nourry. Plenty of logically put together arguments for Nourry to carry the can rather than Marti is boiled down to "hatred".
Again ironic that you seem to subscribe to the black and white thinking that if you think that Nourry is the biggest issue and should be sorted first, that means you hate him and Marti is perfect! It doesn't. Nobody is saying he's a perfect manager, plenty think he's a good manager and we either won't get a better one or that even if we did they'd still be hamstrung by the squad and injuries.
And you wonder why people ignore rather than engage. |  | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 14:33 - Nov 25 with 1073 views | BklynRanger |
Good stuff as usual - captures the mood.
I'd have swapped Nardi and Saito's scores around though - thought Koki was quality on Saturday just about every time he touched it. I find myself wimpering that we don't deserve him at the minute, but nobody has the energy to give me a well deserved slap.
Noticed Saito getting a good bit of respect from the Stoke players at the end too.
For the goal, yes Jimmy fcuked up that was clear, but Smyth really did nothing to help when he easily could have. Penalty-leg tangle aside he was poor I thought. |  | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 14:39 - Nov 25 with 1047 views | robith |
I didn't even watch Celar take the pen, I knew he was going to miss.
The cheering and booing when he got subbed was fairly bleak. |  | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:37 - Nov 25 with 894 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 08:56 - Nov 25 by daveB |
Cook playing for himself? What are you talking about.
He made a mistake against leeds but it didn't cost us the game, they battered us, a goal was inevitable.
Saying Dunne made a mistake for the 1st goal, which he did, is not an assault on his character or anyone saying he is dreadful, he just made a mistake which he knew straight away as he had his head in his hands. Cook could have gone to the ball but the damage was already done |
Cook, as I've said from the off plays too many sideways passes to players in less favourable positions than he's in, maybe it's lack of confidence, maybe it's not as I see it self-preservation, but Morrison immediately stepped up to play and transition with the ball,
I also called out Cook very early for always berating others, particularly Kakay after another of his non return hospital balls,
Cooks a decent defender at this level, even if he always drops too deep for my liking and rarely steps out to pressure the opponent,
My criticism is very much about his lack of leadership and organisation of the team on the pitch, and that penalty fiasco is just another example of a lack of leadership from a vastly experienced player.
Cooks spaff @ Leeds was 0-1 and game over by my reckoning, Dunne does that and the roof comes in. | | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:42 - Nov 25 with 875 views | daveB |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:37 - Nov 25 by ParkRoyalR |
Cook, as I've said from the off plays too many sideways passes to players in less favourable positions than he's in, maybe it's lack of confidence, maybe it's not as I see it self-preservation, but Morrison immediately stepped up to play and transition with the ball,
I also called out Cook very early for always berating others, particularly Kakay after another of his non return hospital balls,
Cooks a decent defender at this level, even if he always drops too deep for my liking and rarely steps out to pressure the opponent,
My criticism is very much about his lack of leadership and organisation of the team on the pitch, and that penalty fiasco is just another example of a lack of leadership from a vastly experienced player.
Cooks spaff @ Leeds was 0-1 and game over by my reckoning, Dunne does that and the roof comes in. |
but the roof hasn't come in, he made a mistake, it cost us a goal and he then got his head down and played reasonably well after that. I've not seen that much criticism of him to be honest
I completely disagree with you on Cook but I don't want another back and forth like we had with Lyndon Dykes so I'll just leave it |  | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:56 - Nov 25 with 817 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:42 - Nov 25 by daveB |
but the roof hasn't come in, he made a mistake, it cost us a goal and he then got his head down and played reasonably well after that. I've not seen that much criticism of him to be honest
I completely disagree with you on Cook but I don't want another back and forth like we had with Lyndon Dykes so I'll just leave it |
Fair enough, I always thought Dykes for his limitations made our team functional,
This team now is totally malfunctioning and if you press them you know they don't bring the ball up the middle, you know with right footed left backs they don't bring it up the left, you know they can't go long as they don't have a player with enough movement or aggression to hold the ball up,
This is why for me it is so important Cook steps up and brings Varane into the game with him,
We can't rely on Dunne or Colback whenever he returns to do it all,
Leadership & courage are more than goal line clearances as Morgan & Morrison are showing. | | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:58 - Nov 25 with 789 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:37 - Nov 25 by ParkRoyalR |
Cook, as I've said from the off plays too many sideways passes to players in less favourable positions than he's in, maybe it's lack of confidence, maybe it's not as I see it self-preservation, but Morrison immediately stepped up to play and transition with the ball,
I also called out Cook very early for always berating others, particularly Kakay after another of his non return hospital balls,
Cooks a decent defender at this level, even if he always drops too deep for my liking and rarely steps out to pressure the opponent,
My criticism is very much about his lack of leadership and organisation of the team on the pitch, and that penalty fiasco is just another example of a lack of leadership from a vastly experienced player.
Cooks spaff @ Leeds was 0-1 and game over by my reckoning, Dunne does that and the roof comes in. |
If all you can do as a QPR fan is try and find fault in Steve Cook, then good luck to you. The very least of our problems.
To find fault with him "berating Kakay" - the mind boggles. How's Kakay's career going these days?
I've watched him all season, been by far our best and most important player in my opinion and once again if we are to stay up he has to be fit for all the games. |  | | |
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| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 16:51 - Nov 25 with 680 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 15:58 - Nov 25 by GaryBannister86 |
If all you can do as a QPR fan is try and find fault in Steve Cook, then good luck to you. The very least of our problems.
To find fault with him "berating Kakay" - the mind boggles. How's Kakay's career going these days?
I've watched him all season, been by far our best and most important player in my opinion and once again if we are to stay up he has to be fit for all the games. |
The very least of our problems, maybe, but most of the others are unfixable til January and rely on the further generosity of our owners
Its also probably one we can fix now rather than sitting on our hands and waiting for Colback to return, when it could be too late,
There's a decent player in Varane, a Centre Half stepping out with the ball the way Morrison is shaping up to and the way a prime Rob Dickie did, transforms this team.
As would a leader on the pitch exalting the likes of Varane, Madsen etc to show for the ball more. | | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:07 - Nov 25 with 624 views | Northernr |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 16:51 - Nov 25 by ParkRoyalR |
The very least of our problems, maybe, but most of the others are unfixable til January and rely on the further generosity of our owners
Its also probably one we can fix now rather than sitting on our hands and waiting for Colback to return, when it could be too late,
There's a decent player in Varane, a Centre Half stepping out with the ball the way Morrison is shaping up to and the way a prime Rob Dickie did, transforms this team.
As would a leader on the pitch exalting the likes of Varane, Madsen etc to show for the ball more. |
I'm interested, can you clarify the line between "exalt" and "berate"?
My learnings from this thread so far are that Jimmy Dunne turning round and screaming at Smyth on Saturday for something that had very little to do with him is a good thing.
Steve Cook turning round and screaming at Osman Kakay, on the other hand, is a bad thing.
But, also, Steve Cook not shouting at Varane and others for not showing for the ball is also a bad thing, and he needs to do it more if he's to be a proper leader.
Yours,
Confused, Tooting. |  | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:34 - Nov 25 with 550 views | simmo |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 18:47 - Nov 24 by ParkRoyalR |
Well we could mention the worse defensive error this season, Cooks pathetic shank for Leeds 1st goal, not sure I saw it mentioned in match report but could be wrong.
We have a fundamental problem in this team in moving the ball up the pitch,
Cook will only do if we're playing 10 men, we know Field doesn't have the close ball control or ability to turn tight with the ball,
And Varane who I like is a reactive player who when we're in possession seems to turn off and not offer an option,
This team has serious and fundamental flaws and we need our Captain to step up. |
The worst defensive error of the season was Morgan Fox against Portsmouth, narrowly beating out the 2nd worst error, which was also Morgan Fox against Portsmouth. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:37 - Nov 25 with 538 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:34 - Nov 25 by simmo |
The worst defensive error of the season was Morgan Fox against Portsmouth, narrowly beating out the 2nd worst error, which was also Morgan Fox against Portsmouth. |
For making the same mistake twice, I'll give you the draw, but that was some spaff @ Elland Road. | | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:45 - Nov 25 with 517 views | simmo |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:37 - Nov 25 by ParkRoyalR |
For making the same mistake twice, I'll give you the draw, but that was some spaff @ Elland Road. |
I think that delaying a clearance just long enough so you miss the ball altogether and boot the opposition player in your own area is a little more egregious an error than mis-hitting a ball. But it depends on your own agenda I guess. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 18:33 - Nov 25 with 435 views | lassel |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:07 - Nov 25 by Northernr |
I'm interested, can you clarify the line between "exalt" and "berate"?
My learnings from this thread so far are that Jimmy Dunne turning round and screaming at Smyth on Saturday for something that had very little to do with him is a good thing.
Steve Cook turning round and screaming at Osman Kakay, on the other hand, is a bad thing.
But, also, Steve Cook not shouting at Varane and others for not showing for the ball is also a bad thing, and he needs to do it more if he's to be a proper leader.
Yours,
Confused, Tooting. |
In fairness, shouting at Kakay about his defending is as self defeating as shouting at a 12 week old kitten for scratching the curtains…
He’s fallen out of the game for a reason. | | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 18:39 - Nov 25 with 417 views | ParkRoyalR |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 17:45 - Nov 25 by simmo |
I think that delaying a clearance just long enough so you miss the ball altogether and boot the opposition player in your own area is a little more egregious an error than mis-hitting a ball. But it depends on your own agenda I guess. |
No agenda,
Just never been all in on Cook in the same way I've never been all in on Cifuentes, both of whom are big favourites on this Forum, fair enough, we see things differently,
Both could & should do better, hence my frustration,
No point berating the likes of Madsen, Andersen or Celar who are just clearly not physically cut out for this league,
Better to point out opportunities for improvement, I think Cook needs to show more courage on the ball. | | | |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 18:46 - Nov 25 with 398 views | daveB |
| Celar's deepening nightmare leaves QPR well adrift – Report on 18:39 - Nov 25 by ParkRoyalR |
No agenda,
Just never been all in on Cook in the same way I've never been all in on Cifuentes, both of whom are big favourites on this Forum, fair enough, we see things differently,
Both could & should do better, hence my frustration,
No point berating the likes of Madsen, Andersen or Celar who are just clearly not physically cut out for this league,
Better to point out opportunities for improvement, I think Cook needs to show more courage on the ball. |
To show more courage on the ball both Cook and all other defenders need options and players moving ahead of them which is where most of our problems are | | | |
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