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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 14:08 - Nov 15 by BazzaInTheLoft
I still defend Ainsworth. That hasn’t changed. We aren’t second bottom because of him.
All I’ve said in this thread is that I see a route out, it’s up to the players , and that I’m encouraged. Do I still think we’ll be relegated? Yeah probably.
Is that so far removed?
I think what you want from me is some kind of recompense for sticking up for Ainsworth. That’s not going to happen Jack, and it’s a bit joyless to want me to as well.
I do rate Marti boy on the little I’ve seen of him for what it’s worth but he’s not the messiah etc.
[Post edited 15 Nov 2023 14:52]
Ainsworth is relevant to the discussion, but no, I don’t need you, or other supporters, to apologise for backing him. I think pretty much every Rangers fan agrees appointing him was a major recruitment error – admittedly for a number of fans this is only in hindsight.
My point is solely around your own dramatic change in the future of the club – from being certain relegation material that nobody can save, to now having seen enough “organisation and improvement” to stay up is a dramatic change in outlook no? Especially after only getting 2 points. So genuine question, either you’ve seen something in Marty that puts him in the ‘can turn water into wine’ category and he is ‘the miracle’ the club needed? Or perhaps you now think we aren’t un-saveable and a new manager could make a difference?
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 15:00 - Nov 15 with 2456 views
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 14:50 - Nov 15 by PhilmyRs
Ainsworth is relevant to the discussion, but no, I don’t need you, or other supporters, to apologise for backing him. I think pretty much every Rangers fan agrees appointing him was a major recruitment error – admittedly for a number of fans this is only in hindsight.
My point is solely around your own dramatic change in the future of the club – from being certain relegation material that nobody can save, to now having seen enough “organisation and improvement” to stay up is a dramatic change in outlook no? Especially after only getting 2 points. So genuine question, either you’ve seen something in Marty that puts him in the ‘can turn water into wine’ category and he is ‘the miracle’ the club needed? Or perhaps you now think we aren’t un-saveable and a new manager could make a difference?
Surely a majority of football fans (and I happily include myself in this category) change their opinions, seemingly wildly, from week to week - even more so when there's a manager change or transfer business. It's what we do - certainly with our own club, and the emotions involved.
I can sit back and watch the Prem with a detached air, and probably form and stick with concrete, relatively sensible opinions. I'm less emotionally involved.
That all quickly goes out the window with Rangers.
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 14:50 - Nov 15 by PhilmyRs
Ainsworth is relevant to the discussion, but no, I don’t need you, or other supporters, to apologise for backing him. I think pretty much every Rangers fan agrees appointing him was a major recruitment error – admittedly for a number of fans this is only in hindsight.
My point is solely around your own dramatic change in the future of the club – from being certain relegation material that nobody can save, to now having seen enough “organisation and improvement” to stay up is a dramatic change in outlook no? Especially after only getting 2 points. So genuine question, either you’ve seen something in Marty that puts him in the ‘can turn water into wine’ category and he is ‘the miracle’ the club needed? Or perhaps you now think we aren’t un-saveable and a new manager could make a difference?
It’s not dramatic.
I haven’t seen enough to suggest we’ll stay up. I’ve not said that once.
And even if I did, it’s a change of opinion. Could do with more of that in this forum frankly.
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 16:30 - Nov 15 with 2241 views
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 10:38 - Nov 15 by Watford_Ranger
Bookies give us a 2 in 3 chance of going down which is fair IMO.
I don’t think it’s inconceivable we lose at least one of Chair/Field in the window. We might somehow find some change down the sofa from paying off Ainsworth for a Swedish gem but that’s a long shot. We might get Willock playing a bit. We might get another Dykes purple patch.
Then again lose Cook/Field/Chair/Begovic for a prolonged period or entirely and we’re probably toast.
Will our better players be here and fit for enough games to get another 40 points? Head says no for me.
ANOTHER Dykes purple patch ?
It's being so happy that keeps me going.
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 16:35 - Nov 15 with 2229 views
I'm cautiously optimistic. It's small green shoots at the moment but he already looks to have tightened us up at the back, just one goal conceded from a set piece in the last two, none from open play.
If he can get a couple of players firing and chipping in with a few goals we can start to climb out of trouble I think. Just shows what a bit of actual coaching of players can do.
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 15:00 - Nov 15 by ngbqpr
Surely a majority of football fans (and I happily include myself in this category) change their opinions, seemingly wildly, from week to week - even more so when there's a manager change or transfer business. It's what we do - certainly with our own club, and the emotions involved.
I can sit back and watch the Prem with a detached air, and probably form and stick with concrete, relatively sensible opinions. I'm less emotionally involved.
That all quickly goes out the window with Rangers.
Fans do change their minds, nothing wrong with that. Kakay seems to go from pub footballer, to league 1, to decent Championship cover. Heard he’s best in a back 3, to now being more suited to a back 4 from one guy. Dykes? people seem to change views on him weekly.
I just found Bazza, a very supportive poster of Ainsworth, and to be fair one whose been consistent in their views that the Manager is ‘not the problem’ and that ‘nobody can save us’, to now see green shoots of improvement which “could” keep us up, after two draws, one against a relegation rival, is quite a staggering change in mindset, even by football fans standards.
I’m not trying to tee off on a fellow fan, it's just he's been one of the few that has stuck to his guns and supported Ainsworth, and as I said, has done it well and consistently. He thought relegation was a near on certainty but has now changed that view after getting 2 points. It’s interesting to ask what’s caused that? Is it the genius of the new boss? Is it dawning on them the former boss may have part of the problem and things aren’t unsalvageable? or another reason.
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 17:05 - Nov 15 with 2160 views
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 16:56 - Nov 15 by PhilmyRs
Fans do change their minds, nothing wrong with that. Kakay seems to go from pub footballer, to league 1, to decent Championship cover. Heard he’s best in a back 3, to now being more suited to a back 4 from one guy. Dykes? people seem to change views on him weekly.
I just found Bazza, a very supportive poster of Ainsworth, and to be fair one whose been consistent in their views that the Manager is ‘not the problem’ and that ‘nobody can save us’, to now see green shoots of improvement which “could” keep us up, after two draws, one against a relegation rival, is quite a staggering change in mindset, even by football fans standards.
I’m not trying to tee off on a fellow fan, it's just he's been one of the few that has stuck to his guns and supported Ainsworth, and as I said, has done it well and consistently. He thought relegation was a near on certainty but has now changed that view after getting 2 points. It’s interesting to ask what’s caused that? Is it the genius of the new boss? Is it dawning on them the former boss may have part of the problem and things aren’t unsalvageable? or another reason.
Is changing from "certain to go down" to "likely to go down, but have a better chance of staying up now" that drastic?
Looking for the Maybe if we sign an effing striker or 2.Otherwise no we are gone. I cannot see us figuring out how to resolve the issue without fresh blood.
I think 0-0 & 1-0 will figure greatly in our results for the remainder and we will probably come close.
If we do go it gives us the freedom to clean house, so I think I've come to terms with it.
Chairman of the Junior Hoilett appreciation society
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 17:28 - Nov 15 with 2118 views
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 17:05 - Nov 15 by terryb
Is changing from "certain to go down" to "likely to go down, but have a better chance of staying up now" that drastic?
It nice to know QPR could still find and lure a manager in MC when people think we would be stuck with Ainsworth to league one as a dead certainty. Don’t know if it is a drastic transformation of belief but certainly gravely “underestimated” the club.
If we hold to our “truth” so dearly, any form of abandonment would deem blasphemous even if you might be right.
As for QPR I am always on the side of optimism even we are stuck deep in quagmire, I like to think my club could make it out, I hope the same our head coach and players do as well
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 18:50 - Nov 15 by Hoopsie
It nice to know QPR could still find and lure a manager in MC when people think we would be stuck with Ainsworth to league one as a dead certainty. Don’t know if it is a drastic transformation of belief but certainly gravely “underestimated” the club.
If we hold to our “truth” so dearly, any form of abandonment would deem blasphemous even if you might be right.
As for QPR I am always on the side of optimism even we are stuck deep in quagmire, I like to think my club could make it out, I hope the same our head coach and players do as well
I’ll hold my hands up to underestimating the club, although it should be noted that it was Ferdinand who put him on the radar.
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 22:26 - Nov 15 with 1776 views
All we need to kick-start the momentum is our first home win. Clearly lots has been done on the training pitch, but there is a lot more to do. We saw on Saturday that there is a decent team in this group of players, but they would benefit from the confidence boost that a few wins would generate.
I believe!
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 04:04 - Nov 16 with 1655 views
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 14:50 - Nov 15 by PhilmyRs
Ainsworth is relevant to the discussion, but no, I don’t need you, or other supporters, to apologise for backing him. I think pretty much every Rangers fan agrees appointing him was a major recruitment error – admittedly for a number of fans this is only in hindsight.
My point is solely around your own dramatic change in the future of the club – from being certain relegation material that nobody can save, to now having seen enough “organisation and improvement” to stay up is a dramatic change in outlook no? Especially after only getting 2 points. So genuine question, either you’ve seen something in Marty that puts him in the ‘can turn water into wine’ category and he is ‘the miracle’ the club needed? Or perhaps you now think we aren’t un-saveable and a new manager could make a difference?
As an independent, Philmy is correct here with his point. Bazza it’s ok to say that. But all can move on as support our team unified.
DonnieR
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 07:39 - Nov 16 with 1584 views
Can't see us staying up. It's the players that got us in this mess and GA's signings haven't improved us. Fundamental problem remains, despite the incremental improvements. We've got to be realistic, we've steadily got worse and are where we should be. Our strike force doesn't have what it takes, and I'm basing that on what I've seen. It's been nearly a year, what will suddenly change?
Having said that, I do retain a slither of optimism, Marti has a clear vision of how he wants to play football that I think is more suited to us and what we want as fans. Could be the start of something special if we stick with him?
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 10:19 - Nov 16 with 1480 views
Our key to staying up will be going ahead in games, especially at home where the real problem lies. Think Marti will get us playing but our weakness is not getting anything to hold into, we he have looked very nervous at home and for the past year watching QPR at home as soon as the away side score you see the heads visibly drop and it falls apart. This is the mentality that Marti has to change and he may be the one to get them in the right place again to compete. Positive signs from both Rotherham and Bristol games we were actually passing to each other and playing more through the centre of midfield, still think we need to get Chair in a more central midfield role. Getting players to unleash more shots early around 18 yard box is an opportunity for Chair, Colback and Dozell to up the goal tally as we are going to need these type of players to deliver.
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 10:43 - Nov 16 with 1419 views
The real problem this last 12 months or so has simply been taking our chances and getting the ball in the onion bag.
Ironically, Chris Martin was quite good at that when he was with us, but instead of keeping him on our books another season, he was let go, with no one really able to do the same or better job.
Has the book closed and we cannot get a loaner or 2 in, or perhaps 2 out of contract chaps on basic plus results money?
Dykes has been useless since day 1 with us, and should have been replaced, and short of getting Armstrong to realise what an off side is, and get him to understand shooting accurately we are in the mire.
No matter how well our team improves, under the new guy, if you cannot get a 10-15 goals season striker (or 2) then your screwed.
1.5 points per game is playoff form. The only realistic options are 1) Marti getting this team going - possible but I don't trust this team 2) finding 3 worse teams - we may have 2 but locating the 3rd will be our biggest problem.
[Post edited 16 Nov 2023 11:09]
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 11:41 - Nov 16 with 1331 views
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 11:08 - Nov 16 by sprocket
1.5 points per game is playoff form. The only realistic options are 1) Marti getting this team going - possible but I don't trust this team 2) finding 3 worse teams - we may have 2 but locating the 3rd will be our biggest problem.
[Post edited 16 Nov 2023 11:09]
It's only 1.33 per game though which is solid mid table form so we don't have to be quite as good as you say.
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 11:41 - Nov 15 by BrianMcCarthy
I sometimes wonder if we too often say "this team has no goals in it" as if that can't be fixed.
Two weeks ago this team had no functioning defence, midfield or attack. We look now as if we might fix the first two prolems. I don't see why the third should be insurmountable.
Forget forty points, nobody eats an elephant that looks that big. In thirty games, we need to get two more points than Rotherham and six more points than Huddersfield. That seems very doable to me.
The ONE thing Redknapp said when he was with us that resonated was the general rule in football that past goalscorer prowess is GENERALLY a measure of future prowess.
Players like Akpom, Stuart Wardley, Conor Washington, etc. may get one season in the limelight, but they will generally form a pattern wherever they play.
So, I don't agree that it can be trained; you either have it or you don't.
If we are lucky we might get ten from one of Illy, Willy or Dykes, but all three? Doubtful from here especially as the first two rarely scored tap ins when they were scoring. Worldies aren't sustainable either.
Agree with your point on the fact that we need to be the fastest snail in the race, but just can't see us getting to 45 points. If we get enough, so be it, but can't see that - sorry!
Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 11:54 - Nov 16 by davman
The ONE thing Redknapp said when he was with us that resonated was the general rule in football that past goalscorer prowess is GENERALLY a measure of future prowess.
Players like Akpom, Stuart Wardley, Conor Washington, etc. may get one season in the limelight, but they will generally form a pattern wherever they play.
So, I don't agree that it can be trained; you either have it or you don't.
If we are lucky we might get ten from one of Illy, Willy or Dykes, but all three? Doubtful from here especially as the first two rarely scored tap ins when they were scoring. Worldies aren't sustainable either.
Agree with your point on the fact that we need to be the fastest snail in the race, but just can't see us getting to 45 points. If we get enough, so be it, but can't see that - sorry!
I don't get the concept that goalscoring can't be improved from coaching; that you either have it or you don't. It's something even some players and managers say, and certainly some commentators, and it's lazy. Some commentators go on like goalscorers are born fully formed like Buddhist reincarnations.
Why should goalscoring be the only football aspect that can't be improved through the acquisition of knowledge, through the practicing of technical skills, through increased strength and conditioning? There's no logic to that, in my book.
If we look at all the truisms of recognised goalscorers:
"One run for the defender, then one for yourself" "Attack the spaces where the defenders aren't" "Head hard crosses back in the direction they came from"
They will all improve goalscorers' ability once learned, but they all have to be learned at some stage. Great goalscorers don't come out of the womb lecturing to the doctor about near-post runs.
When we look at our strikers, I see very little improvement in their knowledge or skills. This could be down to insufficient coaching, they might not be very coachable compared to others, they might be nervous, lacking in confidence or resistent to change. But I don't buy that their craft can't be improved if the conditions aren't right.
Otherwise, for instance, how do we explain Les Ferdinand's transformation before our very eyes.
"The opposite of love, after all, is not hate, but indifference."
Finding some more sponsorship money to invest in additional firepower in the transfer window seems inevitable. Depending on that outcome, we might just finish higher than 3 or 4 other teams. Drawing games all the way to the end of the season will still see us relegated. Marti's previous (well established) team leads their league in draws and they are currently on a streak of six drawn games... just saying.
100% of people who drink water will die.
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Will we stay up? (We need c. 40 points from 30 games.) on 13:56 - Nov 16 with 1186 views
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