| Trust meetings 12:47 - Apr 3 with 30877 views | D_Alien |
The newsletter has dropped, and the plan is for three open meetings in late April / early May, but no date(s) fixed yet |  |
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| Trust meetings on 14:43 - Apr 5 with 3940 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meetings on 14:03 - Apr 5 by chuckleberry |
They’ve offered free tickets to local looked after children. |
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2023/april/communityticketinitiative/
A great initiative.
On some of the other points made recently, there may already be a growing realisation that supporters looking for answers will start having to get some soon. The passing of time can be used in many ways, controlling it is often the key.
Of course, I’m sure the club welcomes this feedback and will look to consult supporters in all areas. |  |
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| Trust meetings on 14:54 - Apr 5 with 3914 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 14:03 - Apr 5 by chuckleberry |
They’ve offered free tickets to local looked after children. |
I saw that yesterday and it's a worthwhile initiative. That still leaves nearly 7000 empty seats/ standing though. I was suggesting trying to put a few more thousand on the gate who maybe would want to spend some money once they are at the ground? We do have a commercial department or somebody who is being paid a salary to try to think up these sort of ideas I assume. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 15:38 - Apr 5 with 3830 views | turnthescrew |
The only way you'll get a few extra thousand on the gate is when we play a team who will bring that few extra thousand supporters.
Countless initiatives have been tried and have failed miserably. There is insufficient interest, because there is insufficient belief amongst townsfolk that the club wants to progress rather than tread water. If the club show that they mean business, then the interest will come.
The last few seasons have been disastrous both on and off the field. Nothing but negative news, negative results and the whole sh!tshow that comes from the MH fiasco and the completely inept (or worse) club employees that allowed it to come about.
There isn't any reason why any potential new supporters would want to turn up and watch. The dross we've been fed on the field wouldn't encourage anyone to turn up,especially at the cost of attending a game.
You can't win games when only 5 or 6 of the team is worthy of a place in football league side.
If the club want to show some ambition, get Danny Lloyd signed up, rip some contracts up, make some positive changes and make it clear to the supporters, shareholders and the public at large, that things are going to be different from now on.
These Directors have come through a hell of a battle - privately and professionally - to save the club, and nobody should ever forget that.
That said, it's now time to show the world that this phase of our history is firmly behind us and that we are now re-emerging with a new approach and with the direct intention of progressing from where we are.
We cannot keep aimlessly bumping and scraping along the bottom and expect things to change. We have to make it change, before it's too late. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 22:37 - Apr 5 with 3624 views | mikehunt |
Trouble is (from my perspective) is I didn’t really understand what “fan owned” entailed: and still don’t.
If it means shareholders have to dip into their pockets whenever required, then, I’m sorry I can’t do that. Is that how Exeter is run?
I had assumed that buying a little toe-hold in the club meant we would be asked to help make decisions about the running of the club - the fans running the club.
Obviously, the BOD would call the shots but give everyone else the chance to comment on any proposals.
Is that not what fan owned means? |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Trust meetings on 05:57 - Apr 6 with 3535 views | pioneer |
| Trust meetings on 22:37 - Apr 5 by mikehunt |
Trouble is (from my perspective) is I didn’t really understand what “fan owned” entailed: and still don’t.
If it means shareholders have to dip into their pockets whenever required, then, I’m sorry I can’t do that. Is that how Exeter is run?
I had assumed that buying a little toe-hold in the club meant we would be asked to help make decisions about the running of the club - the fans running the club.
Obviously, the BOD would call the shots but give everyone else the chance to comment on any proposals.
Is that not what fan owned means? |
No, it always has been shareholder owned so shareholders have their say at AGM and any EGMs.
Shareholders do not have to be fans though the new board made an attempt to make sure the first bunch of new shares went to ‘fans’. Given the limited number of fans we have, and the limited funds those fans have, trying the same thing so soon after the first sale was bound to fail. So now they are looking for an investor or investors who dont have to be fans. | | | |
| Trust meetings on 07:04 - Apr 6 with 3501 views | James1980 |
IIrc it has been said in the past that it is not an investor we are adverse to but the wrong investor. S | |
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| Trust meetings on 23:29 - Apr 13 with 2876 views | D_Alien |
Thanks for keeping an eye on the Trust website
It's possibly not checked very often by the fanbase at large, but with this information you've disseminated people can now make plans to attend | |
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| Trust meetings on 23:43 - Apr 13 with 2855 views | Sandyman |
26th April has the distraction of City V Arsenal to contend with, |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 05:25 - Apr 14 with 2807 views | rkershaw |
| Trust meetings on 14:42 - Apr 5 by dawlishdale |
The Community Trust has; rather than the Football Club per se. The Community Trust gets 300 tickets every home match as part of its work in the local area. Whilst this week's tickets are going to a very worthy cause, it's not in addition to their normal workload.
Do you think the club is doing enough to attract additional support in this crucial time? |
I've said it before so I might as well say it again.....reduced admission for Rochdale Hornets season ticket holders.....the offer recipricated by Hornets to Dale season ticket holders....not rocket science!! | | | |
| Trust meetings on 06:03 - Apr 14 with 2787 views | ThreeLions |
| Trust meetings on 05:25 - Apr 14 by rkershaw |
I've said it before so I might as well say it again.....reduced admission for Rochdale Hornets season ticket holders.....the offer recipricated by Hornets to Dale season ticket holders....not rocket science!! |
They havent sold very many though so it's hardly going to be of benefit to the football club. Hornets have burnt many bridges in this town the last few years with beetroot face in charge and it's now showing as even many of the local Rigby community can't even stand them anymore. There's no advantage to get involved with them. |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 13:19 - Apr 14 with 2544 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meetings on 23:43 - Apr 13 by Sandyman |
26th April has the distraction of City V Arsenal to contend with, |
Maybe it could be rearranged to start an hour earlier?
Whilst the meetings being arranged is a positive step, there will hopefully be an opportunity to gain some details on where the Trust stand and their current knowledge on the changes at the club over the last year.
Specifically either answering or taking questions from supporters that will provide total clarity why there has been a move away from being ‘fan-owned’. Any concerns and uncertainties being raised that require that further detail can then be followed up immediately for the club to address where needed. Of course, information may already be being sought to relay to supporters who attend the meetings.
For reference:
End of April ‘22:
“the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season”.
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/april/chairmanmessageseasoncards_22-23/
31/10/22 an AGM/EGM was called:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/october/noticeofagm_november22/
After the AGM/EGM held on 17/11/22:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/november/shareissue_181122/
Applications open to existing shareholders and all other supporters of the club who would like to become shareholders for the first time.
30/12/22 Club invites offers for investment:
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/news/2022/december/statement_301222/ | |
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| Trust meetings on 13:35 - Apr 14 with 2518 views | D_Alien |
If there are any changes to the timing of the meetings, it'd be really, really, really useful if a member of the Trust board posted the change on this forum
As said before, the Trust website isn't regularly checked for updates | |
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| Trust meetings on 13:43 - Apr 14 with 2500 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meetings on 13:35 - Apr 14 by D_Alien |
If there are any changes to the timing of the meetings, it'd be really, really, really useful if a member of the Trust board posted the change on this forum
As said before, the Trust website isn't regularly checked for updates |
The article mentions the meeting are open to all supporters to ensure maximum participation, so presumably the club website will be posting the details in the upcoming days. | |
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| Trust meetings on 16:46 - Apr 14 with 2329 views | 49thseason |
If people are to participate fully in these meetings, perhaps we should do some pre-meeting preparation on here prior to them starting? Simply so that people who go have ammunition to support their views and for people who cannot go get to at least air their views in the public domain.
For example, I note that "Potential Non League Football and the impact on the Club" is only being covered at the 3rd meeting ... maybe by then we will know if its "potential" or confirmed, but either way it is a hugely important topic in my view which needs detailed analysis.
I guess we could start a thread for each topic and ask that people don't get carried off the point?
Thoughts? |  | | |
| Trust meetings on 17:17 - Apr 14 with 2281 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meetings on 16:46 - Apr 14 by 49thseason |
If people are to participate fully in these meetings, perhaps we should do some pre-meeting preparation on here prior to them starting? Simply so that people who go have ammunition to support their views and for people who cannot go get to at least air their views in the public domain.
For example, I note that "Potential Non League Football and the impact on the Club" is only being covered at the 3rd meeting ... maybe by then we will know if its "potential" or confirmed, but either way it is a hugely important topic in my view which needs detailed analysis.
I guess we could start a thread for each topic and ask that people don't get carried off the point?
Thoughts? |
That’s a good idea, maybe choose 2/3 subjects for the first meeting initially and see how that goes?
Ownership structure to be one of those. | |
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| Trust meetings on 17:22 - Apr 14 with 2272 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meetings on 16:46 - Apr 14 by 49thseason |
If people are to participate fully in these meetings, perhaps we should do some pre-meeting preparation on here prior to them starting? Simply so that people who go have ammunition to support their views and for people who cannot go get to at least air their views in the public domain.
For example, I note that "Potential Non League Football and the impact on the Club" is only being covered at the 3rd meeting ... maybe by then we will know if its "potential" or confirmed, but either way it is a hugely important topic in my view which needs detailed analysis.
I guess we could start a thread for each topic and ask that people don't get carried off the point?
Thoughts? |
Nothing to stop threads such as you suggest happening, bearing in mind not everyone reads this forum but it may still assist with the direction of each topic
I can't help but envisage something along the lines of those with the most vehement views hogging the tables at these meetings. How will the Trust ensure that doesn't happen? How much will those whose views are perfectly valid but a bit shy at coming forward be accommodated?
I've referred to the possibility of "a talking shop". The Trust taking these steps (after some prompting to emphasise the urgency of concerns around lack of communication in particular) is to be welcomed. This can't become a wasted opportunity due to lack of focus
The Trust communicating via channels other than its website would give both Trust members and non-members greater confidence in the process | |
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| Trust meetings on 17:30 - Apr 14 with 2254 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 16:46 - Apr 14 by 49thseason |
If people are to participate fully in these meetings, perhaps we should do some pre-meeting preparation on here prior to them starting? Simply so that people who go have ammunition to support their views and for people who cannot go get to at least air their views in the public domain.
For example, I note that "Potential Non League Football and the impact on the Club" is only being covered at the 3rd meeting ... maybe by then we will know if its "potential" or confirmed, but either way it is a hugely important topic in my view which needs detailed analysis.
I guess we could start a thread for each topic and ask that people don't get carried off the point?
Thoughts? |
The shareholders, Trust members, supporters get to have zero input into what direction the club is going in. The whole make up of the Club is changed overnight. Then the fans are ignored for a couple of months, a wall of silence is put up. Then the Trust want the fans to suddenly engage and start donating their free time to a club that in the near future will probably be owned by private investors. Why are the Chairman and the board of Directors not attending all these meetings? Have the Trust even asked them? Any plans put in place could be redundant in a few months time, wait to see who the new kids on the block are first, everything could change overnight. We've moved away from a fan owned, fan run, inclusive club remember. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 17:33]
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| Trust meetings on 17:40 - Apr 14 with 2231 views | D_Alien |
| Trust meetings on 17:30 - Apr 14 by TalkingSutty |
The shareholders, Trust members, supporters get to have zero input into what direction the club is going in. The whole make up of the Club is changed overnight. Then the fans are ignored for a couple of months, a wall of silence is put up. Then the Trust want the fans to suddenly engage and start donating their free time to a club that in the near future will probably be owned by private investors. Why are the Chairman and the board of Directors not attending all these meetings? Have the Trust even asked them? Any plans put in place could be redundant in a few months time, wait to see who the new kids on the block are first, everything could change overnight. We've moved away from a fan owned, fan run, inclusive club remember. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 17:33]
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I hear and respect what you're saying TS
But there's a seperate issue of how the Trust itself operates in this new era. Some of the topics are very much concerned with that, and if (for instance) there's a perception that the Trust's independence is compromised by having a member on the BoD the first thing to do is establish how the Trust operates going forward, bearing in mind the potential circumstances you've outlined
The fanbase being informed about the change in direction in the way you describe is a case in point. On the issue most vital to the future of Dale, it didn't deliver for its members, and no fault attached to the Trust board member concerned for that [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 17:47]
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| Trust meetings on 17:47 - Apr 14 with 2208 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meetings on 17:30 - Apr 14 by TalkingSutty |
The shareholders, Trust members, supporters get to have zero input into what direction the club is going in. The whole make up of the Club is changed overnight. Then the fans are ignored for a couple of months, a wall of silence is put up. Then the Trust want the fans to suddenly engage and start donating their free time to a club that in the near future will probably be owned by private investors. Why are the Chairman and the board of Directors not attending all these meetings? Have the Trust even asked them? Any plans put in place could be redundant in a few months time, wait to see who the new kids on the block are first, everything could change overnight. We've moved away from a fan owned, fan run, inclusive club remember. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 17:33]
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Your last line really should hit home. Because nobody is totally sure why.
This time last year:
“the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season”.
And “football is broken” is no explanation. | |
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| Trust meetings on 17:58 - Apr 14 with 2191 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 17:40 - Apr 14 by D_Alien |
I hear and respect what you're saying TS
But there's a seperate issue of how the Trust itself operates in this new era. Some of the topics are very much concerned with that, and if (for instance) there's a perception that the Trust's independence is compromised by having a member on the BoD the first thing to do is establish how the Trust operates going forward, bearing in mind the potential circumstances you've outlined
The fanbase being informed about the change in direction in the way you describe is a case in point. On the issue most vital to the future of Dale, it didn't deliver for its members, and no fault attached to the Trust board member concerned for that [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 17:47]
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The fact that the Trust as the leading shareholder weren't all over the statement that came out of the Boardroom was the biggest shock of all. Before the Chairman even announced that the club were now looking for outside investors the Trust should have been fully consulted alongside the Trust members and shareholders. In fact Simon Gauge should have ensured that happened, bearing in mind the amount of supporters who had recently invested in the club.
As Chairman he should have also ensured that the good people of the Trust weren't compromised in any way, if in fact that was the case. The silence from all of them was ridiculous, even more so when we have a Trust Committee member in the boardroom. Anyway, they've lost me I'm afraid, let them all get on with it now. [Post edited 14 Apr 2023 18:29]
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| Trust meetings on 20:47 - Apr 14 with 2022 views | James1980 |
| Trust meetings on 17:47 - Apr 14 by 442Dale |
Your last line really should hit home. Because nobody is totally sure why.
This time last year:
“the club has a stable financial platform and cash reserves to be well positioned for next season”.
And “football is broken” is no explanation. |
Is it because of the court case, has that caused more of a detrimental effect than had been anticipated? | |
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| Trust meetings on 23:55 - Apr 14 with 1902 views | 49thseason |
| Trust meetings on 20:47 - Apr 14 by James1980 |
Is it because of the court case, has that caused more of a detrimental effect than had been anticipated? |
Just about every club at our level is losing money whilst the Championship clubs that are also losing money are raking in 80% of all the money the EFL produces. The loss of a season and a half through Covid whilst continuing to pay players was devastating and the EFL did little to support clubs like ours despite the Prem coughing up £250m to help EFL clubs.
When you budget to lose £1-1.5m a year in the hope of a cup run or a player sale, the hit to the finances of no fans is all the greater. The difference between Rochdale and most other clubs is we do not have an investor prepared to swallow £1m + a year, or write off loans to the tune of multi- millions and the shareholders simply do not have the wherewithall to keep putting that sort of money into the club on an annual basis.
So the BoD has decided to find an investor.... we as supporters have to either swallow an investor coming on board or figure out how to find another £1m or so per year to plug the gaps... So £20K a week... re-introducing Gold Bond if done properly could add £250 - 300k maybe more over time. The big question is can 2000-ish fans bridge the other £700k or so every year, which seems like a tall order?
Well, volunteers might be able to do some of the jobs thst the club is currently paying for, we could for example run a shop or a tea bar as the Fighting Fund used to do.
We could help to find more sponsors, organise more, bigger events. We could do more at Christmas. Rochdale has spaces we could hire to run sportsmans dinners, " an evening with" etc. We could be forming closer relationships with junior clubs, setting up an Executive club, even getting friends and family to use Easyfundraising.
It requires leadership and a sense of pupose, its not impossible but its a huge task.
In truth, I think we do need an investor, but in the longer term, developing the clubs finances helps to reduce its dependence on such a person. A profitable club would be a much happier club and a much more successful one. Money in the bank equals points on the board... | | | |
| Trust meetings on 00:12 - Apr 15 with 1888 views | 442Dale |
| Trust meetings on 23:55 - Apr 14 by 49thseason |
Just about every club at our level is losing money whilst the Championship clubs that are also losing money are raking in 80% of all the money the EFL produces. The loss of a season and a half through Covid whilst continuing to pay players was devastating and the EFL did little to support clubs like ours despite the Prem coughing up £250m to help EFL clubs.
When you budget to lose £1-1.5m a year in the hope of a cup run or a player sale, the hit to the finances of no fans is all the greater. The difference between Rochdale and most other clubs is we do not have an investor prepared to swallow £1m + a year, or write off loans to the tune of multi- millions and the shareholders simply do not have the wherewithall to keep putting that sort of money into the club on an annual basis.
So the BoD has decided to find an investor.... we as supporters have to either swallow an investor coming on board or figure out how to find another £1m or so per year to plug the gaps... So £20K a week... re-introducing Gold Bond if done properly could add £250 - 300k maybe more over time. The big question is can 2000-ish fans bridge the other £700k or so every year, which seems like a tall order?
Well, volunteers might be able to do some of the jobs thst the club is currently paying for, we could for example run a shop or a tea bar as the Fighting Fund used to do.
We could help to find more sponsors, organise more, bigger events. We could do more at Christmas. Rochdale has spaces we could hire to run sportsmans dinners, " an evening with" etc. We could be forming closer relationships with junior clubs, setting up an Executive club, even getting friends and family to use Easyfundraising.
It requires leadership and a sense of pupose, its not impossible but its a huge task.
In truth, I think we do need an investor, but in the longer term, developing the clubs finances helps to reduce its dependence on such a person. A profitable club would be a much happier club and a much more successful one. Money in the bank equals points on the board... |
Until we establish why there was a change in approach, including when exactly things changed, the distance between supporters and the club we were informed was one we owned and led will only widen. Please see the links above.
As TalkingSutty has said, fans having that input or setting up a Volunteer Army (now two and a half months since we were told by the Trust that there would be an update) could be rendered futile, any incoming investor may have no interest in that anyway.
There was once a time we all had a good idea about what Rochdale AFC was, it wasn’t perfect but we were proud about our club. Any attempts to play down how that worked are pointless when what really matters is that it has to be made crystal clear what we are now, where we are and where we are heading. Because at the moment, can anyone answer that? [Post edited 15 Apr 2023 0:15]
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| Trust meetings on 06:11 - Apr 15 with 1808 views | TalkingSutty |
| Trust meetings on 23:55 - Apr 14 by 49thseason |
Just about every club at our level is losing money whilst the Championship clubs that are also losing money are raking in 80% of all the money the EFL produces. The loss of a season and a half through Covid whilst continuing to pay players was devastating and the EFL did little to support clubs like ours despite the Prem coughing up £250m to help EFL clubs.
When you budget to lose £1-1.5m a year in the hope of a cup run or a player sale, the hit to the finances of no fans is all the greater. The difference between Rochdale and most other clubs is we do not have an investor prepared to swallow £1m + a year, or write off loans to the tune of multi- millions and the shareholders simply do not have the wherewithall to keep putting that sort of money into the club on an annual basis.
So the BoD has decided to find an investor.... we as supporters have to either swallow an investor coming on board or figure out how to find another £1m or so per year to plug the gaps... So £20K a week... re-introducing Gold Bond if done properly could add £250 - 300k maybe more over time. The big question is can 2000-ish fans bridge the other £700k or so every year, which seems like a tall order?
Well, volunteers might be able to do some of the jobs thst the club is currently paying for, we could for example run a shop or a tea bar as the Fighting Fund used to do.
We could help to find more sponsors, organise more, bigger events. We could do more at Christmas. Rochdale has spaces we could hire to run sportsmans dinners, " an evening with" etc. We could be forming closer relationships with junior clubs, setting up an Executive club, even getting friends and family to use Easyfundraising.
It requires leadership and a sense of pupose, its not impossible but its a huge task.
In truth, I think we do need an investor, but in the longer term, developing the clubs finances helps to reduce its dependence on such a person. A profitable club would be a much happier club and a much more successful one. Money in the bank equals points on the board... |
You are never going to have a profitable club at our level though, it's virtually impossible. We have never had a profitable club, even when Hill was working his magic, Dunphy etc still realised that they would have to work on losing about £500k/ season to put a competitive team on the pitch.It was swings and roundabouts. Players would always have to be sold. It was a plan that worked perfectly, but if you have a boardroom that panics when you have a poor season and thinks they can run a football club like a normal business and balance the books then it doesn't work, you have to hold your nerve and be prepared to fly by the seat of your pants at times. You can try to run it by balancing the books but it will Impact on the pitch and probably result in relegation. Chris Dunphy will tell you that.
The main focus and the finances has to go on recruiting the best players and putting a strong team on the pitch because that's where the big money is generated in transfer fees and cup runs, televised games etc. Chris Dunphy was a football man, as well as a successful businessman and he understood and was prepared to carry that risk as the Chairman. It served us very well for a long time. He was also prepared to help this season, a wonderful gesture, but his services were no longer required unfortunately. That's a pity because if ever we needed local businessmen with footballing nouse and the good of the club at heart it's now...well i think it's too late now to be honest.
We currently have a fledgling boardroom with very little experience when it comes to running a football club and it shows massively. The decision making from within has played a very big part in our current predicament on the pitch, cumulative decisions that will cost the club millions of pounds in the long run. Decisions all made with good intentions probably but nonetheless the financial impact is in a way, self inflicted. Offers of help should have been embraced and accepted. This is a separate issue to the wonderful job they did in saving the club, we are talking about their day to day running of it now and the decision making, refusal to accept help, non communication etc. If it is to be relegation this season then i genuinely believe it's one that could have easily been avoided had the correct decisions been made.
The new Chairman and Directors promised last year to have the club firing on all cylinders, each director with their own responsiblity and monthly meetings to formulate plans etc, a commercial department that would generate extra income and open up new exciting partnerships, a thriving lottery etc..instead the club has stagnated, gone backwards on the pitch and the fan owned and fan run model was kicked into the long grass before it even had time to take off. Then they put the club up for sale without telling anybody. The sudden coming together of everybody at the club was ruined because those who think they know best decided that not communicating with the fans was the best course of action. It's not new, that's what Bottomley and his cronies did, snubbed their nose at the shareholders and the supporters, it never ends well.
So is the club functioning at it's most efficient to vastly reduce that £1-£1.5 milion annual loss? I would suggest that it isn't and those figures could be greatly reduced if we had dynamic and ambitious people at the club who were willing to engage with the fans and the Town. We have the opposite to that though with key members of staff seemingly invisible and unable to utter a word in public. Who are the people running the commercial department for example? What is his/ her previous exoerience? Have these crucial positions been properly advertised and interviews taken place, or is it a case of jobs for the boys? The CEO is probably a very nice man but he should be front and centre of the club and engaging the fans and the town, the person driving the club. For some reason we've seen the opposite i'm afraid and that comes back to how the club is being run.. So those figures i take with a pinch of salt.
Projecting forward, i've no doubt they will find a investor, that person could be waiting in the wings for the probable relegation, that would conveniently avoid jumping through the EFL hoops and the rigmarole of the fit and proper person tests etc.They might emerge in the next few months. The worry about the club falling into the hands of the wrong people will now be a constant one. When the new investors have had enough who will they sell their shares on too, the ones offering the most money or the ones with the best interests of the club at heart? [Post edited 15 Apr 2023 9:49]
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