| Brexit-second referendum 10:23 - Feb 9 with 11332 views | johnlangy |
I'd forgotten all about this until it was brought up again on Facebook. This is a headlining story from the Daily Mirror from 16th May 2016. I'll cut and paste a few lines.
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EXCLUSIVE: Nigel Farage wants second referendum if Remain campaign scrapes narrow win
The Ukip leader speaks to the Mirror’s Associate Editor Kevin Maguire and warns that a '52-48 result would be unfinished business'
Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.
The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.
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It's easy to forget these things.
This makes the article in the FT a few days ago about the possibility of a second ref in 2026 a perfectly reasonable one especially when all the polls now show that a large majority of people now believe Brexit was a mistake.
And if that majority which is now around the 58/60% level became say 65% or more over the next few years how can it not be a sensible thing to do. |  | | |  |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:35 - Feb 20 with 1391 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 20:22 - Feb 17 by pencoedjack |
Yes when an MP like Madeline Moon in Bridgend decided that she would keep her own anti brexit views rather than that of her constituents she got voted out.
We ended up with a drink driving transvestite but that’s another story. |
But at least he supported Brexit, so there is that ….🇬🇧 |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:43 - Feb 20 with 1385 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 19:55 - Feb 17 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Who exactly was it advising? And for what purpose? If the result was not enacted on then what exactly would be the point of an advisory referendum?
Don’t forget that pretty much every politician on both sides of the debate stated absolutely categorically that they would abide by the result. The leaflet that went through every letterbox in the land said the same. |
These are questions for the Tory government that called the nature of the referendum.
It was deliberate.
They chose advisory over mandate.
Advisory is to advise the government.
Advisory also has less scrutiny as its only advisory.
So if you wanted less scrutiny then …..
‘If the referendum had been legally binding, then the findings of the Electoral Commission would have rendered it invalid. Because if it's been corruptly delivered, how on earth can we be held to it?
"But because it wasn't binding, we can be held to something that is corruptly delivered. Woah!
"The will of the people is meaningless if the people were victims of corrupt practices or lied to.
"The court essentially found that the Prime Minister is not obliged to take account of the mounting evidence that casts doubt on the legitimacy of the referendum."
It was a set up. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 8:44]
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| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:53 - Feb 20 with 1301 views | union_jack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:43 - Feb 20 by Kilkennyjack |
These are questions for the Tory government that called the nature of the referendum.
It was deliberate.
They chose advisory over mandate.
Advisory is to advise the government.
Advisory also has less scrutiny as its only advisory.
So if you wanted less scrutiny then …..
‘If the referendum had been legally binding, then the findings of the Electoral Commission would have rendered it invalid. Because if it's been corruptly delivered, how on earth can we be held to it?
"But because it wasn't binding, we can be held to something that is corruptly delivered. Woah!
"The will of the people is meaningless if the people were victims of corrupt practices or lied to.
"The court essentially found that the Prime Minister is not obliged to take account of the mounting evidence that casts doubt on the legitimacy of the referendum."
It was a set up. [Post edited 20 Feb 2023 8:44]
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Nearly the worst things thats happened to this country is being part of the EU.
However, recently the worst thing that’s happened to us is not being part of it.
I voted for it only because I felt it was the best of two bad things. I regretted it and wanted another referendum but that never happened.
I am happy to give it time now to see if we can be a better country now that we are out. However, if it is blatantly obvious that it’s ruining us then we need to look at it again if that is possible. |  |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 18:42 - Feb 20 with 1266 views | johnlangy |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:53 - Feb 20 by union_jack |
Nearly the worst things thats happened to this country is being part of the EU.
However, recently the worst thing that’s happened to us is not being part of it.
I voted for it only because I felt it was the best of two bad things. I regretted it and wanted another referendum but that never happened.
I am happy to give it time now to see if we can be a better country now that we are out. However, if it is blatantly obvious that it’s ruining us then we need to look at it again if that is possible. |
Good post uj.
The dates suggested in the Times report of a possible mandate vote in 2026 to give the government the go ahead to discuss a possible deal to return seems to make sense. At the moment we've only actually been out effectively for two years (allowing for the transition year in 2020). By the time of that mandate vote, if it happens, we'll have been out for five years. And if things are not showing signs of improvement then the mandate vote should go ahead.
If the mandate vote is a yes then the real referendum won't happen till maybe 2030. That will be nine years out. And if we're still in the proverbial then I can only see one out come.
And the deal negotiated will still have to be good enough to convince the people that it's right to rejoin.
All of this just my opinion of course. | | | |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 19:58 - Feb 20 with 1234 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:53 - Feb 20 by union_jack |
Nearly the worst things thats happened to this country is being part of the EU.
However, recently the worst thing that’s happened to us is not being part of it.
I voted for it only because I felt it was the best of two bad things. I regretted it and wanted another referendum but that never happened.
I am happy to give it time now to see if we can be a better country now that we are out. However, if it is blatantly obvious that it’s ruining us then we need to look at it again if that is possible. |
Fair play, good post. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 13:57 - Feb 21 with 1181 views | waynekerr55 |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 18:42 - Feb 20 by johnlangy |
Good post uj.
The dates suggested in the Times report of a possible mandate vote in 2026 to give the government the go ahead to discuss a possible deal to return seems to make sense. At the moment we've only actually been out effectively for two years (allowing for the transition year in 2020). By the time of that mandate vote, if it happens, we'll have been out for five years. And if things are not showing signs of improvement then the mandate vote should go ahead.
If the mandate vote is a yes then the real referendum won't happen till maybe 2030. That will be nine years out. And if we're still in the proverbial then I can only see one out come.
And the deal negotiated will still have to be good enough to convince the people that it's right to rejoin.
All of this just my opinion of course. |
And that assumes that the EU will have us back. |  |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:50 - Feb 21 with 1151 views | Boundy |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:53 - Feb 20 by union_jack |
Nearly the worst things thats happened to this country is being part of the EU.
However, recently the worst thing that’s happened to us is not being part of it.
I voted for it only because I felt it was the best of two bad things. I regretted it and wanted another referendum but that never happened.
I am happy to give it time now to see if we can be a better country now that we are out. However, if it is blatantly obvious that it’s ruining us then we need to look at it again if that is possible. |
is it more of a case of how the Tories have or not dealt with our exit being the problem which imo is the case a governemmet whos taken their eye off the ball and now has taken the country down a blind alley , | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:47 - Feb 22 with 1099 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:50 - Feb 21 by Boundy |
is it more of a case of how the Tories have or not dealt with our exit being the problem which imo is the case a governemmet whos taken their eye off the ball and now has taken the country down a blind alley , |
No.
It was inevitable that Brexit would fail because it was a dumb ass idea.
It can never work. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 09:35 - Feb 22 with 1069 views | majorraglan |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:47 - Feb 22 by Kilkennyjack |
No.
It was inevitable that Brexit would fail because it was a dumb ass idea.
It can never work. |
I disagree with you on this.
It wasn’t inevitable Brexit would fail and there could be advantages to mitigate some of the disadvantages from no longer being a part of the EU, but the exit discussions and preparation have been handled really poorly and what we’ve ended up with is very underwhelming.
We’ve had politicians who couldn’t agree what Brexit looked like, poor preparation, Boris oven ready deal was nothing of the sort, he blatantly lied over the NI issue and the new trade deals Truss struck were poor. We’ve no strategic vision for the future, investment is down and the country is going down the tubes.
We need investment and economic growth. Without certainty and stability companies won’t invest, Liz Truss was right about needing growth but they way she set about achieving it was absolutely bonkers - mental.
All this business about the DUP is also bonkers, NI voted to remain, and the majority of the population are aligned to parties supporting the existing arrangements. | | | |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 10:11 - Feb 22 with 1061 views | union_jack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:47 - Feb 22 by Kilkennyjack |
No.
It was inevitable that Brexit would fail because it was a dumb ass idea.
It can never work. |
Well Boundy raises a fair question but I do tend to agree.
Fir this to work, both sides need to want it to work I.e. Europe and UK. I’m not sure that’s the case at the moment. | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 12:36 - Feb 22 with 1021 views | krunchykarrot |
We voted to leave narrowly. Since then there has been at every turn MEP's & MP's plus the media trying to undermine and overturn democracy. Add in a pandemic crap politicians and a war and i feel let down big time. |  | | |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 12:54 - Feb 22 with 1015 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:50 - Feb 21 by Boundy |
is it more of a case of how the Tories have or not dealt with our exit being the problem which imo is the case a governemmet whos taken their eye off the ball and now has taken the country down a blind alley , |
They haven’t taken their eye off the ball. They’ve done exactly what their paymasters instructed them to do. Funnel as much public money into private hands as possible. They are ruthlessly good at this. |  |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 12:54 - Feb 22 with 1014 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 09:35 - Feb 22 by majorraglan |
I disagree with you on this.
It wasn’t inevitable Brexit would fail and there could be advantages to mitigate some of the disadvantages from no longer being a part of the EU, but the exit discussions and preparation have been handled really poorly and what we’ve ended up with is very underwhelming.
We’ve had politicians who couldn’t agree what Brexit looked like, poor preparation, Boris oven ready deal was nothing of the sort, he blatantly lied over the NI issue and the new trade deals Truss struck were poor. We’ve no strategic vision for the future, investment is down and the country is going down the tubes.
We need investment and economic growth. Without certainty and stability companies won’t invest, Liz Truss was right about needing growth but they way she set about achieving it was absolutely bonkers - mental.
All this business about the DUP is also bonkers, NI voted to remain, and the majority of the population are aligned to parties supporting the existing arrangements. |
Fair points.
On Truss, the Johnson people supported her knowing full well she was an idiot and would fail.
Johnson would then return.
However she failed too soon and Johnson was in the States.
He came flying back on the hop but did not have the support.
These Tory people just dont care about the needs of the people who live on these islands. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 15:24 - Feb 22 with 996 views | Boundy |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 12:54 - Feb 22 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
They haven’t taken their eye off the ball. They’ve done exactly what their paymasters instructed them to do. Funnel as much public money into private hands as possible. They are ruthlessly good at this. |
I didn't say which ball , if you mean the money ball then yes I firmly agree , they know the next election unless by some miracle , will be lost and like most recent terms in office it'll take two terms in office before the realisation kicks in that the next lot are inept , corrupt and liars ,and so the political wheel in this and many other countries turns | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 15:28 - Feb 22 with 995 views | Boundy |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 08:47 - Feb 22 by Kilkennyjack |
No.
It was inevitable that Brexit would fail because it was a dumb ass idea.
It can never work. |
That's your opinion which is fine ,but not one I agree with .The world existed before the EEC and if it had remained as just a trading block instead of this desire to create a European state within it a non elected commission we wouldn't be having this conversation | |
| "In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master." |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:07 - Feb 22 with 984 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 12:54 - Feb 22 by Kilkennyjack |
Fair points.
On Truss, the Johnson people supported her knowing full well she was an idiot and would fail.
Johnson would then return.
However she failed too soon and Johnson was in the States.
He came flying back on the hop but did not have the support.
These Tory people just dont care about the needs of the people who live on these islands. |
Yes she certainly was/is an idiot I don’t think anyone can argue against that but looking at her tenure objectively what exactly did she and kwarteng actually do to be hounded out within weeks? They tried to lower the higher rate of tax and cut income tax by 1p.
It’s hardly revolutionary stuff there. There is an economic argument that if people pay less tax then they have more money in their pockets so will be more willing to spend which can lead to a higher tax take. This “spooked” the markets so she had to go and the markets man Rishi Sunak was duly appointed.
If there was ever a clear indication as to the direction of travel we are on, who is actually running the country and for what reason it was the events of the Truss administration. It is clear who the government serves and it isn’t the British people. The EU is in the same boat. If you think a single member of that commission gives a single halfpenny jizz about the European citizens then you might as well give up now. | |
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| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 18:45 - Feb 22 with 954 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 12:54 - Feb 22 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
They haven’t taken their eye off the ball. They’ve done exactly what their paymasters instructed them to do. Funnel as much public money into private hands as possible. They are ruthlessly good at this. |
You should copy and paste this onto the “What is the point of the Conservative party” thread.
Always been so. Only difference with this current incarnation is the point at the less fortunate and blame them. | | | |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 20:51 - Feb 22 with 927 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 12:54 - Feb 22 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
They haven’t taken their eye off the ball. They’ve done exactly what their paymasters instructed them to do. Funnel as much public money into private hands as possible. They are ruthlessly good at this. |
The last sentance says ut all … ðŸ†
Annibyniaeth. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Brexit-second referendum on 13:53 - Feb 23 with 864 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 13:49 - Feb 10 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
We still have the right to work, live and travel in the EU though. I spent four months living and working in Riga. Could pop on the train and travel around huge parts of Europe with very little checks, had to flash my passport a few times and that was it. No questions asked. Just a very warm welcome. In my experience the supposed barriers that have been thrown up have been grossly over exaggerated for political capital. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of brits are still living, working and traveling around the EU. There’s no basis in reality to any of these claims.
Also on the remain bingo card is the “making your children and grandchildren poorer” statement. What a beautifully crafted, evocative and emotive phrase that is. Specifically designed to pull on your heartstrings. But that’s all it is really. Predicting what the world will be like in 30, 50, 70 years is literally impossible. |
I've just read an article on this subject and I may have misunderstood.
I thought that as Latvia was in the Schengen area we were limited to 90 out of 180 days to be there or in any other Schengen country.
DId you need a visa to stay there for 4 months or have I got it wrong? (Which is perfectly possibe!). | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 16:49 - Feb 23 with 850 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Brexit-second referendum on 13:53 - Feb 23 by Gwyn737 |
I've just read an article on this subject and I may have misunderstood.
I thought that as Latvia was in the Schengen area we were limited to 90 out of 180 days to be there or in any other Schengen country.
DId you need a visa to stay there for 4 months or have I got it wrong? (Which is perfectly possibe!). |
We didn’t need a visa for the first 90 days no. We weren’t planning on staying longer but things over ran and we had to go the embassy for an extension which was given in less than half hour I’d say. | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 17:51 - Feb 23 with 832 views | Gwyn737 |
That makes sense, thank you.
Does that then mean you can’t return for 90 days (as is the norm) or does the extension eat into that allowance? | | | |
| Brexit-second referendum on 18:26 - Feb 23 with 822 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Brexit-second referendum on 17:51 - Feb 23 by Gwyn737 |
That makes sense, thank you.
Does that then mean you can’t return for 90 days (as is the norm) or does the extension eat into that allowance? |
I’ve no idea to be honest. We had a 90 day extension but only used a month or so of that before flying home. Won’t need to go back for a few years now which is a shame. It’s a lovely city. But bloody cold. | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 18:38 - Feb 23 with 816 views | Gwyn737 |
| Brexit-second referendum on 18:26 - Feb 23 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
I’ve no idea to be honest. We had a 90 day extension but only used a month or so of that before flying home. Won’t need to go back for a few years now which is a shame. It’s a lovely city. But bloody cold. |
ðŸ‘
I’ve never been but always fancied it. | | | |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 05:59 - Feb 24 with 777 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Brexit-s52% of voterecond referendum on 16:07 - Feb 22 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Yes she certainly was/is an idiot I don’t think anyone can argue against that but looking at her tenure objectively what exactly did she and kwarteng actually do to be hounded out within weeks? They tried to lower the higher rate of tax and cut income tax by 1p.
It’s hardly revolutionary stuff there. There is an economic argument that if people pay less tax then they have more money in their pockets so will be more willing to spend which can lead to a higher tax take. This “spooked” the markets so she had to go and the markets man Rishi Sunak was duly appointed.
If there was ever a clear indication as to the direction of travel we are on, who is actually running the country and for what reason it was the events of the Truss administration. It is clear who the government serves and it isn’t the British people. The EU is in the same boat. If you think a single member of that commission gives a single halfpenny jizz about the European citizens then you might as well give up now. |
Well said none of the EU commissioners ever stands for public elections they are appointed. The same goes for their various presidents. Do uou wonder why they are so afraid of democracy ?
If we don't like our politicians we csn kick them out every 5 years. | |
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| Brexit-second referendum on 07:24 - Feb 24 with 768 views | ItchySphincter |
| Brexit-second referendum on 10:35 - Feb 9 by felixstowe_jack |
I think it is a SMALL majority not a large majority who think Brexit was a mistake. We have hardly had any time to see the effects either positive or negative of Brexit given the Global covoid pandemic, the Global supply crisis and the global energy crisis caused by the Russian invasion of Ukraine
We can't keep having referendums every few years because you don't agree with the democratic decisions of the UK votes.
In 1973 we joined the Common Market.
In 1975 we had a referendum which agreed to stay in the Common Market.
In 2016 we had a referendum which voted to leave the EU
In 2020 we left the EU
The time to have a reason debate about rejoining is after 10 years so we can judge if is was a success to regain put sovereignty. |
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 |  |
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