| Atmosphere 22:04 - Nov 23 with 16037 views | HullDale |
I've thought long & hard about posting this after a few recent games; but after tonight I wonder if its time to have a grown up conversation about the atmosphere at home games, and whether or not it is having an impact on our attitude, performances and results.
I'm not talking about:
- The lack of a bloody drum
- The lack of chanting
- Low crowds, and how quiet we can be as a fanbase at home
I'm talking about the (sometimes vicious) abuse that a decent percentage of our home fans give the team almost continuously.
From where I sat tonight in the WMG, there were a loads of examples of our fans getting on the backs of our players for relatively minor infractions.
Lynch got so much stick from the back of the WMG it was unbelievable - shouting / swearing in his direction, telling him he was sh*t, telling him he can't kick the ball, shouting that he cost us 2 points. It comes to something when our own keeper (who has had 2 very good games) is getting more flack then the opposition keeper.
A decent group of fans booing every single decision players were making, but when some of those decisions turned good (or we did something else great) there was no recognition or 'well done' offered. It makes it feel at times like some people go to vent a load of anger from work / home in our own direction than to watch the football and support the team.
When it is quiet at home, the players will hear absolutely everything and it can't help at all... there were a couple of times when players' shoulders visibly dropped when they heard the abuse. O'Connell is clearly fed up of it (he snapped back at one point at Notts)... others look fed up too. An extreme example was Graham a couple of weeks ago, but its increasingly seeming like some of the constant OTT social media reactions are creeping into actual matches too.
We're in Lg2, with a young average to decent Lg2 squad that was assembled in a couple of weeks before a season in which we were (by all accounts) about 3 hours away from losing the club.
There have been times this season when its genuinely depressing to hear, and takes away from the enjoyment of the game. For casual fans, or those friends for a fiver tonight, it may be enouhh to stop them returning.
I really hope this doesn't come across as a 'preachy' post, or telling people how to act when we've all spent the same money to get in - its out of genuine frustration, a feeling that the atmosphere (subtly referenced by Stockdale recently) could be having some sort of negative impact on the outcome of games, and might be a factor in the decision making if players when it comes to joining or staying with us in January & beyond.
Up the Dale. |  | | |  |
| Atmosphere on 22:14 - Nov 23 with 7716 views | pioneer |
An improved home record would help. Our results at home have been terrible for the last few seasons, probably the worst in the entire league.
I dont agree with the booing etc, but if they pay to come in they have the right to express their opinions (within the bounds of reasonable language etc). I would rather have 3000 booing than 1500 cheering. |  | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:15 - Nov 23 with 7703 views | 1907 |
I actually felt the atmosphere this evening was much less toxic than at previous games.
However the only way things will improve is when we start winning games at home, regularly.
We’ve been absolutely dross at home for years now, which ultimately fuels the atmosphere.
I thought we played much better than in recent games tonight, but to be fair at the sort of 85 minute mark I looked to the bench and thought go on Robbie be brave and change it up. Stick some energy into the middle of the park or bring a striker on. But we just played on and ended up settling for the draw. I remember Hill making many risqué substations that changed draws into wins over the year and I hope it’s something Stockdale starts to do. | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:18 - Nov 23 with 7664 views | 442Dale |
| Atmosphere on 22:14 - Nov 23 by pioneer |
An improved home record would help. Our results at home have been terrible for the last few seasons, probably the worst in the entire league.
I dont agree with the booing etc, but if they pay to come in they have the right to express their opinions (within the bounds of reasonable language etc). I would rather have 3000 booing than 1500 cheering. |
Everyone can express an opinion but there’s so much that’s shouted that illustrates a lack of understanding of both where we are as a club and the game in general. Frustration is totally understandable but let’s appreciate players feel it too. |  |
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| Atmosphere on 22:18 - Nov 23 with 7664 views | True_blue |
Couldn’t agree more with this.. it was shocking in the Sandy tonight, majority of fans constantly getting on players backs for minor things. Clearly doesn’t help a players confidence and performance as a result of it.
Very frustrating to listen to all game too. | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:25 - Nov 23 with 7589 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 22:14 - Nov 23 by pioneer |
An improved home record would help. Our results at home have been terrible for the last few seasons, probably the worst in the entire league.
I dont agree with the booing etc, but if they pay to come in they have the right to express their opinions (within the bounds of reasonable language etc). I would rather have 3000 booing than 1500 cheering. |
Agree entirely on an improved home record... Stockdale himself has said that the team need to give the fans something to cheer about.
So - open question... first half tonight we were (in the main) excellent and had (I think) 11 shots on target. Did people hear more positive noises / chants / comments in the first half, or more negative and/or abusive noises / chants / comments when we were not battering their door down?
I'd say there was a lot more negativity in the 35 minutes they were on top than there was positivity in the 60+ minutes that we were.
An improved home record (in my opinion) will only come when everybody is pulling in the same direction. | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:27 - Nov 23 with 7561 views | TVOS1907 |
| Atmosphere on 22:14 - Nov 23 by pioneer |
An improved home record would help. Our results at home have been terrible for the last few seasons, probably the worst in the entire league.
I dont agree with the booing etc, but if they pay to come in they have the right to express their opinions (within the bounds of reasonable language etc). I would rather have 3000 booing than 1500 cheering. |
There's a difference between booing displeasure at a result or overall performance and verbally targeting individual players, which is HullDale's point, I believe. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Atmosphere on 22:29 - Nov 23 with 7541 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 22:18 - Nov 23 by 442Dale |
Everyone can express an opinion but there’s so much that’s shouted that illustrates a lack of understanding of both where we are as a club and the game in general. Frustration is totally understandable but let’s appreciate players feel it too. |
There was one point in the second half where Lynch had the ball, O'Keeffe was on the right and 'looked' open. Take a slightly closer look and there were 3 Stevenage players within 20 yards of him who were ready to pounce, get the ball off O'Keeffe and launch an attack down their left.
The abuse (and in that instance it was abuse, vicious from some) directed at Lynch was as embarassing to witness as it was offensive and uncalled for. All because, under pressure from their forward, he chose to take a few seconds and look for a better option than the popular (but dangerous) one. [Post edited 23 Nov 2021 22:33]
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| Atmosphere on 22:32 - Nov 23 with 7510 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 22:27 - Nov 23 by TVOS1907 |
There's a difference between booing displeasure at a result or overall performance and verbally targeting individual players, which is HullDale's point, I believe. |
Absolutely.
We were brilliant for most of the first half and some of the second.
Was the end result frustrating? Yes.
Did it deserve to be booed at the end? In my opinion no, but if others felt that way then each to their own.
Should players be subjected to ongoing verbal assaults for mistakes, a wrong decision, or in a lot of cases making the right (but less popular / glamorous choice)? No - because (especially with a young squad), I don't understand what good people think it will achieve. [Post edited 23 Nov 2021 22:33]
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| Atmosphere on 22:38 - Nov 23 with 7445 views | Jamest1994 |
Few people near me in the main stand that scream ‘FORWARD’ any time we string a couple of passes together or a player spends more than 2 seconds with the ball. No patience whatsoever and it doesn’t help the players. We’ve scored two goals and had 27 shots, the issue clearly wasn’t not passing forward enough. | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:40 - Nov 23 with 7427 views | EllDale |
It’s true about historic home form especially against crap teams.
We’ve played three out of the current bottom four at home now and gleaned two points.
There’s something almost fatalistic about it, a “here we go again” feeling.
Having said that there’s no room for hurling abuse at individuals. Perhaps social media has something to do with this. | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:41 - Nov 23 with 7419 views | 49thseason |
| Atmosphere on 22:25 - Nov 23 by HullDale |
Agree entirely on an improved home record... Stockdale himself has said that the team need to give the fans something to cheer about.
So - open question... first half tonight we were (in the main) excellent and had (I think) 11 shots on target. Did people hear more positive noises / chants / comments in the first half, or more negative and/or abusive noises / chants / comments when we were not battering their door down?
I'd say there was a lot more negativity in the 35 minutes they were on top than there was positivity in the 60+ minutes that we were.
An improved home record (in my opinion) will only come when everybody is pulling in the same direction. |
Its the old chicken and egg situation, the first half was the best football we have played for ages, there was a bit of swagger in the team but their equalisers started to drain the confidence out of the players and fans and nerves started jangling on and off the pitch.
From the fans perspective, there is very little expectation of winning even at a goal up .We are desperate for a genuine goal poacher and a rock-solid no-nonsense central defender who is a real organiser. It went a bit pear-shaped tonight when Dooley went to wingback and Grant came into midfield, and some of the early balance seemed to be lost. But we are now on 23 points, still exactly mid table and unbeaten in 7 and our poorer form seems to be reserved for the teams below us. We need to learn to see teams off! |  | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:46 - Nov 23 with 7377 views | nordenblue |
| Atmosphere on 22:41 - Nov 23 by 49thseason |
Its the old chicken and egg situation, the first half was the best football we have played for ages, there was a bit of swagger in the team but their equalisers started to drain the confidence out of the players and fans and nerves started jangling on and off the pitch.
From the fans perspective, there is very little expectation of winning even at a goal up .We are desperate for a genuine goal poacher and a rock-solid no-nonsense central defender who is a real organiser. It went a bit pear-shaped tonight when Dooley went to wingback and Grant came into midfield, and some of the early balance seemed to be lost. But we are now on 23 points, still exactly mid table and unbeaten in 7 and our poorer form seems to be reserved for the teams below us. We need to learn to see teams off! |
For me the last bit of your post is the most important, how on earth we didn't go 2/3 up early on is criminal and while its still close its game on, I said to my brother in law sat next to me they mustn't have believed their luck only going in 2.1 down.
The second half came and we seemed far too obsessed with playing a safe ball all the time and lovely little 1-2s but getting nowhere, for me I'd be surprised to see Kelly here too much longer. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 6:44]
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| Atmosphere on 22:46 - Nov 23 with 7370 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 22:40 - Nov 23 by EllDale |
It’s true about historic home form especially against crap teams.
We’ve played three out of the current bottom four at home now and gleaned two points.
There’s something almost fatalistic about it, a “here we go again” feeling.
Having said that there’s no room for hurling abuse at individuals. Perhaps social media has something to do with this. |
The fatalistic point is an interesting one.
There is a bloke in the WMG who went into Dale bar tonight prematch. He was clearly making a point to anyone that would listen that the atmosphere would be like a cemetery, no noise, had loss written all over it, and that there was no point anyone bringing a friend for a fiver.
Inbetween vaping (all match - there were times where anyone sat behind him would be forgiven for thinking they were watching Stars In Their Eyes rather than a football match!) he literally did nothing but boo, shout at our players, keep uttering how rubbish we are to anyone that would listen, and look thoroughly miserable all match. He had his lad with him too, who is clearly learning from Dad and taking the same approach.
There was an instance on about 60 minutes where O'Keeffe passed to Grant on the right hand side of their box - he booed and slagged the decision off. It led to a great chance and a save from their keeper, and there wasn't a flicker of enjoyment or appreciation from him.
I know he has been going for years, so is clearly a fan... I also know he does the same every match. I just don't get it. [Post edited 23 Nov 2021 22:47]
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| Atmosphere on 22:51 - Nov 23 with 7313 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 22:46 - Nov 23 by nordenblue |
For me the last bit of your post is the most important, how on earth we didn't go 2/3 up early on is criminal and while its still close its game on, I said to my brother in law sat next to me they mustn't have believed their luck only going in 2.1 down.
The second half came and we seemed far too obsessed with playing a safe ball all the time and lovely little 1-2s but getting nowhere, for me I'd be surprised to see Kelly here too much longer. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 6:44]
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'The second half came and we seemed far too obsessed with playing a safe ball'
Open question again - do we think some of this comes from a young squad feeling the atmosphere at home, the pressure to not make a mistake, and the fear of trying something more adventurous because of the abuse / reaction if it doesn't come off? | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:52 - Nov 23 with 7304 views | EllDale |
There was a bloke used to stand near me in the Sandy who was very similar although I haven’t seen him (or heard him) so far this season come to think of it.
He hated Callum Camps with a passion. He even used to shout at him in the warmup telling him how rubbish he was. He transferred the vitriol to Dooley and Morley when Camps left.
It makes you wonder if this sort of behaviour could actually have a derogatory affect on players so that they’d rather play away rather than at home where the groans must sound awful. | | | |
| Atmosphere on 22:54 - Nov 23 with 7286 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 22:52 - Nov 23 by EllDale |
There was a bloke used to stand near me in the Sandy who was very similar although I haven’t seen him (or heard him) so far this season come to think of it.
He hated Callum Camps with a passion. He even used to shout at him in the warmup telling him how rubbish he was. He transferred the vitriol to Dooley and Morley when Camps left.
It makes you wonder if this sort of behaviour could actually have a derogatory affect on players so that they’d rather play away rather than at home where the groans must sound awful. |
Downvoted by mistake - I agree 100% with this.
Do we think our players look forward to playing at home?
If the answer is 'no' - do we think that mindset across the team could be leading to some of the issues? | | | |
| Atmosphere on 23:02 - Nov 23 with 7225 views | D_Alien |
| Atmosphere on 22:46 - Nov 23 by HullDale |
The fatalistic point is an interesting one.
There is a bloke in the WMG who went into Dale bar tonight prematch. He was clearly making a point to anyone that would listen that the atmosphere would be like a cemetery, no noise, had loss written all over it, and that there was no point anyone bringing a friend for a fiver.
Inbetween vaping (all match - there were times where anyone sat behind him would be forgiven for thinking they were watching Stars In Their Eyes rather than a football match!) he literally did nothing but boo, shout at our players, keep uttering how rubbish we are to anyone that would listen, and look thoroughly miserable all match. He had his lad with him too, who is clearly learning from Dad and taking the same approach.
There was an instance on about 60 minutes where O'Keeffe passed to Grant on the right hand side of their box - he booed and slagged the decision off. It led to a great chance and a save from their keeper, and there wasn't a flicker of enjoyment or appreciation from him.
I know he has been going for years, so is clearly a fan... I also know he does the same every match. I just don't get it. [Post edited 23 Nov 2021 22:47]
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Reminds me of the bloke i had the misfortune to sit near at Wembley when we played Spurs in the cup replay
Once we'd gone a goal down he did nothing but slag the team and individual players off, without any sense of context or the fantastic performance that'd got us there in the first place
We equalised, and might've even gone in ahead at half time after Hendo hit the post. On my way past him for a quick walk round to warm up, i stood right in front of him and told him very loudly that he should STFU and he was a disgrace to the town and it's football team. He had nothing to say back
I'm not suggesting fans should start getting confrontational at all (although this one was completely beyond the pale). But basically these people are cowards and coming to the Dale is possibly their only means of being able to express their mainly hidden anger at life in general
Are we unique in having those types? I doubt it, but there's a definite legacy in the town and the type of player abuse you've highlighted is far from new
[Post edited 23 Nov 2021 23:05]
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| Atmosphere on 23:15 - Nov 23 with 7132 views | TalkingSutty |
The overwhelming majority of fans are great, those that turned up tonight could have stayed at home on a cold Tuesday night but they didn’t. I don’t think the home performances and results over the last few seasons, including this, can be blamed on the fans whatsoever. Look at our home form last season with no fans in attendance. Every Club has ‘supporters’ who get on the players backs and lets face it the COA is like a kindergarten compared to many clubs. There has always been fans who balloon off and moan throughout the game, it’s never been any different. |  | | |
| Atmosphere on 23:18 - Nov 23 with 7109 views | DaleiLama |
| Atmosphere on 22:46 - Nov 23 by nordenblue |
For me the last bit of your post is the most important, how on earth we didn't go 2/3 up early on is criminal and while its still close its game on, I said to my brother in law sat next to me they mustn't have believed their luck only going in 2.1 down.
The second half came and we seemed far too obsessed with playing a safe ball all the time and lovely little 1-2s but getting nowhere, for me I'd be surprised to see Kelly here too much longer. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 6:44]
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"I'd be surprised to see Kelly here too much longer".
If that's the case, let's not waste him playing too deep like he did in the second half. He was the creator behind a lot of our attacking play in the first and he excels in that role. Less so in front of the defence in the second. |  |
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| Atmosphere on 23:21 - Nov 23 with 7089 views | TomRAFC |
The default tone in the stadium seems to be one of frustration. It's been a good while since we were a run of the mill midtable league 2 team, it's not been an easy adjustment for some.
In the pub before the match there was a general consensus that we've done alright with our resources and that saving the club was the priority. Once people are in the stands and the game isn't going to plan, reflection goes out the window. | |
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| Atmosphere on 23:29 - Nov 23 with 7037 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 23:15 - Nov 23 by TalkingSutty |
The overwhelming majority of fans are great, those that turned up tonight could have stayed at home on a cold Tuesday night but they didn’t. I don’t think the home performances and results over the last few seasons, including this, can be blamed on the fans whatsoever. Look at our home form last season with no fans in attendance. Every Club has ‘supporters’ who get on the players backs and lets face it the COA is like a kindergarten compared to many clubs. There has always been fans who balloon off and moan throughout the game, it’s never been any different. |
Genuine question (not having a pop) but I'd be genuinely interested to hear your opinion on my earlier question - I think I've read before you're in the WMG so probably not far from me.
So - open question... first half tonight we were (in the main) excellent and had (I think) 11 shots on target. Did people hear more positive noises / chants / comments in the first half, or more negative and/or abusive noises / chants / comments when we were not battering their door down? | | | |
| Atmosphere on 23:41 - Nov 23 with 6979 views | Shun |
| Atmosphere on 22:46 - Nov 23 by HullDale |
The fatalistic point is an interesting one.
There is a bloke in the WMG who went into Dale bar tonight prematch. He was clearly making a point to anyone that would listen that the atmosphere would be like a cemetery, no noise, had loss written all over it, and that there was no point anyone bringing a friend for a fiver.
Inbetween vaping (all match - there were times where anyone sat behind him would be forgiven for thinking they were watching Stars In Their Eyes rather than a football match!) he literally did nothing but boo, shout at our players, keep uttering how rubbish we are to anyone that would listen, and look thoroughly miserable all match. He had his lad with him too, who is clearly learning from Dad and taking the same approach.
There was an instance on about 60 minutes where O'Keeffe passed to Grant on the right hand side of their box - he booed and slagged the decision off. It led to a great chance and a save from their keeper, and there wasn't a flicker of enjoyment or appreciation from him.
I know he has been going for years, so is clearly a fan... I also know he does the same every match. I just don't get it. [Post edited 23 Nov 2021 22:47]
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I do think some people just enjoy being miserable, and seem to look forward to something to moan about. How anyone can be unhappy with that first half display is beyond me. Frustrating that we were only 1 goal up on them, granted, but we were absolutely dominant and playing the best football we’ve played all season. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 0:37]
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| Atmosphere on 23:56 - Nov 23 with 6917 views | boromat |
| Atmosphere on 23:41 - Nov 23 by Shun |
I do think some people just enjoy being miserable, and seem to look forward to something to moan about. How anyone can be unhappy with that first half display is beyond me. Frustrating that we were only 1 goal up on them, granted, but we were absolutely dominant and playing the best football we’ve played all season. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 0:37]
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I'm in the main stand and it's no different to any other season from what I can tell. Usually pretty tame and supportive but as soon as frustrations set in its FORWARD and groans etc.
Sounds like the Pearl Street is a bit fractured at the minute what with the shouting between fans the other week and then the abuse to Graham etc. | |
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| Atmosphere on 00:06 - Nov 24 with 6892 views | HullDale |
| Atmosphere on 23:56 - Nov 23 by boromat |
I'm in the main stand and it's no different to any other season from what I can tell. Usually pretty tame and supportive but as soon as frustrations set in its FORWARD and groans etc.
Sounds like the Pearl Street is a bit fractured at the minute what with the shouting between fans the other week and then the abuse to Graham etc. |
Its getting borderline toxic more than fractured at times.
There was a bloke who had a proper go at the vaping guy I referenced earlier after the Sutton match for booing / criticising / abusing the players.
That same bloke tonight was one of the worst for hurling abuse at our players.
My worry is the negativity (and feeling its OK to hurl abuse at our team) is osmosising through the crowd and just adding to the problem. Watching us play at home at the minute (in my opinion) isn't a pleasant experience - and that's not even taking into account what is happening on the pitch. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 0:06]
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| Atmosphere on 00:11 - Nov 24 with 6873 views | TalkingSutty |
| Atmosphere on 23:29 - Nov 23 by HullDale |
Genuine question (not having a pop) but I'd be genuinely interested to hear your opinion on my earlier question - I think I've read before you're in the WMG so probably not far from me.
So - open question... first half tonight we were (in the main) excellent and had (I think) 11 shots on target. Did people hear more positive noises / chants / comments in the first half, or more negative and/or abusive noises / chants / comments when we were not battering their door down? |
I heard more negative comments in the second half but it didn’t surprise me. The goal we conceded in the second half was amateurish and there was then a feeling of de ja vu, here we go again. Tonight was a game that should have been put to bed with ease but somehow we always seem to find a way to shoot ourselves in the foot.
To be honest, when you look at our home form over the last few years i can understand why some are losing their rag and venting their frustration. Many others have withdrawn their support and stay at home, dwindling attendances tell you that, I think we have the poorest home record in the country over the past few years. Getting on the players back and cat calls/ booing never helps but it’s always been part and parcel of the matchday experience and it happens at every club. I would even suggest it’s a lot more tame now than it was decades ago. I expect somebody to balloon off at most games and i think professional footballers do to. As a support base i think we are fairly placid compared to many.
I would rather concentrate on the 95% of supporters who support the players to be fair, we’ve had too much negativity recently. The fans who drag their arses up to the games ever week and hand over their hard earned money can never be the problem. [Post edited 24 Nov 2021 0:29]
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