| Stumbling across Plan B 08:03 - Jan 13 with 4432 views | LoneRanger |
Hi everyone — first time poster (favourite cheese Camembert), but a (very!) long-time reader of this great site.
I know its only one win (although I think we had much improved performances against Norwich and Fulham), but it feels like we have come across, possibly stumbled across, a really effective formation for us and our players:
LTC — lovely footballer, but potentially fragile if swarmed by a more populated midfield oppositon, and really needs options ahead of him. This is significantly less exposed in a 3-5-2 with less populated centre field having Ball and Chair near as well as the protection of the three at the back behind.
Ball — lots of effort, seems a leader, never hides, but is clearly a bit limited. But there is a pivotal role for him in a 3-5-2 as a person to plug gaps, be a leader and help keep the team solid whilst forward players focus on trying to get us goals
Chair — gets the opportunity to develop in a central, more prominent role, rather than being stuck on the left and potentially out of the game. The more time we can give him in this role, the more he will develop and hopefully become the really consistent creative number 10 we would love and hope for him to become.
Cameron — his very apparent lack of mobility is not as exposed in a back three as it is in midfield.
Barbet — his sometimes psychotic defending is less exposed in a back three, and actually his distribution and predominantly left sided-ness provide better balance in 3-5-2
For both Dickie and Barbet — having three at the back helps them be able to bring the ball out from the back with less risk.
Charlie — well, previously our best goalscorer in a generation. But, despite being a 'big-lad', he really is a brilliant goalpoacher (much more akin to a Kevin Phillips type). I think many clubs have mis-used him, thinking of him as a target man (which he can do, but is not great at), when he is a great second striker to a workhorse (like Zamora when we were in the Premier league), which brings me onto…
Dykes — clearly he is very raw, but I think — if we use him right — he could be a right pain in backside for defenders to play against, especially if he really puts himself about. I don’t think he looks like he will be an effective golascorer, but used correctly could be a really effective player. He needs support and other players around him who will get goals.
In addition defensively — even if we don’t practice defending set-pieces (scratching my head on that one) — we are better set up defending them with 6 big players (three centre backs, Ball, and the two strikers), as well as Dieng who is certainly impressing.
The only clear immediate problem with this formation in my mind is the wing-backs — I actually think it also suits Kane compared to being a full-back, but he has still some improving to do - especially it clearly doesn't suit Bright (who is on his day possibly our best player) and I am not convinced Niko will be good enough. And we have Uncle and Willock who would need to find a role.
In some ways it reminds me (with a less good team than then) of the glorious 3 games under Jim Magilton in 2009, when we (because of injuries) stumbled across a way of playing with Taarabt, Buszaky, Simpson, Routledge in the same team and thumped Preston, Reading and Derby. I also recall Magilton scrapped the formation to return to a 4-4-2 at Doncaster, with disastrous consequences. I hope Warburton does not do something similar — plan B now seems better than plan A.
Still a lot of room for improvement - would like to see more goals from round the team, we are still a bit limited in quality and it feels we like we lack some depth in key positions - but I am hopeful today, which I certainly was not a couple of weeks ago (or even 24 hours ago!)
[Post edited 13 Jan 2021 8:06]
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:26 - Jan 13 with 3698 views | enfieldargh |
Welcome from behind the sofa.
Great first post, got your Cheese choice in early I see.
Yes he may have stumbled across a good formation however I think the fact that he abandoned sitting on the chill box for the advertising hording was the major gamechanger.
Last nights performance albeit against a very ropey looking lootown team has really lifted my mood and hunger to watch the Rangers.
Charlie was a breath of fresh air, I dont remember his ball control and passing awareness as good as that before.
Great night and feeling good |  |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:38 - Jan 13 with 3638 views | dm97 |
Totally agree re Dykes. Looks far more comfortable in the support band to Austin rather than being the main man. The Zamora comparison is quite accurate imo. A reminder that not all strikers need to be, or can be, 20 goal a season players - Bobby was a premier league quality player scoring 10-15 a season while being a foil for others (Charlie, Andy Johnson etc).
Clearly that kicks the can down the road toward May when Austin inevitably gets offered a lucrative contract at a top 8 championship club (the ghosts of Wells and Hugill remain).
But in our situation, all that matters come May is being 16th and happily lower-mid table |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:39 - Jan 13 with 3628 views | Metallica_Hoop |
Welcome.
Great first post.
Laure Berthaud or Joséphine Karlsson? |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 09:03 - Jan 13 with 3542 views | ozexile |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:39 - Jan 13 by Metallica_Hoop |
Welcome.
Great first post.
Laure Berthaud or Joséphine Karlsson? |
😂 | | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 09:08 - Jan 13 with 3516 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:26 - Jan 13 by enfieldargh |
Welcome from behind the sofa.
Great first post, got your Cheese choice in early I see.
Yes he may have stumbled across a good formation however I think the fact that he abandoned sitting on the chill box for the advertising hording was the major gamechanger.
Last nights performance albeit against a very ropey looking lootown team has really lifted my mood and hunger to watch the Rangers.
Charlie was a breath of fresh air, I dont remember his ball control and passing awareness as good as that before.
Great night and feeling good |
‘Charlie was a breath of fresh air, I dont remember his ball control and passing awareness as good as that before’
👆 |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 09:29 - Jan 13 with 3412 views | WokingR |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:39 - Jan 13 by Metallica_Hoop |
Welcome.
Great first post.
Laure Berthaud or Joséphine Karlsson? |
Not another ginger ! |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 09:42 - Jan 13 with 3344 views | ParkRoyalR |
Great post, completely agree with your analysis, two good wingbacks and hopefully Chair, Dykes and Bonne developing at this level with more games, and we have a team that compete in this league. | | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 09:58 - Jan 13 with 3259 views | stevec |
Good post.
Agree with all of that except BOS, got an engine, got speed and more chance to develop into a premier league player as a wing back. |  | | |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 10:37 - Jan 13 with 3182 views | ridethewave |
Last couple of games Dykes has looked like a very good player, albeit still seemingly incapable of scoring, but certainly looked fantastic in terms of hold-up play, distribution, and overall being an outlet. Quite right as you say that this formation suits him better and playing with support next to him has really changed his game. |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 10:42 - Jan 13 with 3146 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Very good post.
I think the heading is unfair to Warburton, though. He hasn't stumbled across it, he has deliberately changed to 343 as soon as he had time to implement it on the training ground, tweaking it to 3412 with the arrival of Austin.
Welcome aboard, LoneRanger.
edit - I think it's clear that we do practice defending set pieces. We are much, much improved in this area and have moved away from the chaotic set-up we used last season.
[Post edited 13 Jan 2021 10:45]
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 10:43 - Jan 13 with 3140 views | Ashdown_Ranger |
Nice post 
Terrible cheese |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:02 - Jan 13 with 2993 views | LoneRanger |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 10:42 - Jan 13 by BrianMcCarthy |
Very good post.
I think the heading is unfair to Warburton, though. He hasn't stumbled across it, he has deliberately changed to 343 as soon as he had time to implement it on the training ground, tweaking it to 3412 with the arrival of Austin.
Welcome aboard, LoneRanger.
edit - I think it's clear that we do practice defending set pieces. We are much, much improved in this area and have moved away from the chaotic set-up we used last season.
[Post edited 13 Jan 2021 10:45]
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Thanks for the comments about the OP - and appreciate the cheese is possibly controversial!
Brian - I think you are right, 'stumbling' probably is a harsh description and the issue about not having training time to change tactics is totally valid. I do think one thing that has caught us out this season is Cameron not being able to play centre mid as well this year, and we tried quite a few solutions to amend it - for example having Amos playing the high press and providing energy further up the pitch (which unfortunately only got a game or two to be tested before Amos' very unfortunate injury) or by pairing Cameron and Ball together in midfield (which as we know doesn't work well!). However this new system does help put him in a position he can really contribute well to the team, as well as remaining his role as a leader on the park which is clearly valued. And agree there seems to have been a significant improvement in defending set-pieces over the last few weeks — I was almost certainly wrong in saying we don’t practice them (taking too seriously the comments of players who have previously worked with Warburton but who likely have some vested interest in being critical) — but certainly the way we were defending them up to a few weeks ago was just really painful to watch.
And to Steve C's comment on BOS - I think that is fair, he could end up being a really good wing-back (playing like Ashley *spits on the ground* Young or Victor Moses have done in that position). But sadly I think that needs a lot of coaching and I suspect we won't get to have the time for that to be fully developed here, as I would guess he will move on come the end of the season. But he can certainly do a decent job there for the rest of the season. | | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:10 - Jan 13 with 2971 views | DannyPaddox |
LoneRanger it’s all good coming on here being articulate, thought-provoking, and cheese-worthy but are you ITK? |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:30 - Jan 13 with 2913 views | LoneRanger |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:10 - Jan 13 by DannyPaddox |
LoneRanger it’s all good coming on here being articulate, thought-provoking, and cheese-worthy but are you ITK? |
Haha - I wish I was! I'll leave that to Twitter, WATRB and Tomcat. I only know that I am most certainly not ITK... | | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:37 - Jan 13 with 2889 views | hantssi |
Nothing wrong with a bit of Camembert especially baked and eaten with a bit of warm baguette! | | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:40 - Jan 13 with 2875 views | londonscottish |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 10:37 - Jan 13 by ridethewave |
Last couple of games Dykes has looked like a very good player, albeit still seemingly incapable of scoring, but certainly looked fantastic in terms of hold-up play, distribution, and overall being an outlet. Quite right as you say that this formation suits him better and playing with support next to him has really changed his game. |
IMHO opinion it's why he's looked better in a Scotland shirt.
Scotland often play Dykes as one of two strikers with Ryan Christie & Scott McTominay piling in from the midfield. Lots of movent & interplay which seems to suit him well. |  |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:54 - Jan 13 with 2831 views | rsonist |
Warbs may not have stumbled across it but I would say this isn't the first time three at the back has had immediate results and it's curious that it's taken this long to give it a go again this season. |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:57 - Jan 13 with 2820 views | californiahoop |
This a great point, a point that I feel could be levelled at Les also.... Charlie — well, previously our best goalscorer in a generation. But, despite being a 'big-lad', he really is a brilliant goalpoacher (much more akin to a Kevin Phillips type). I think many clubs have mis-used him, thinking of him as a target man (which he can do, but is not great at), when he is a great second striker to a workhorse (like Zamora when we were in the Premier league), which brings me onto… | | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 13:00 - Jan 13 with 2811 views | ngbqpr |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:54 - Jan 13 by rsonist |
Warbs may not have stumbled across it but I would say this isn't the first time three at the back has had immediate results and it's curious that it's taken this long to give it a go again this season. |
He bought for his favoured 4231, which I suspect is why he's only gone this way when relatively desperate.
Arguably it means a choice of BOS or Niko at LWB (neither ideal?), and little space for Adomah, Willock or Thomas as starters. |  |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 13:03 - Jan 13 with 2800 views | eastside_r |
Welcome kemosabe. |  | | |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 13:13 - Jan 13 with 2755 views | ted_hendrix |
Cheese, cheese bloody cheese--always with the cheese.
Hardly a day passes and someone mentions cheese again.
Weirdo's and cheese freaks.
Let him who is without sin cast the first cheese. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 13:54 - Jan 13 with 2641 views | BklynRanger |
Welcome aboard to the board.
The wingbacks question is a good one. There's a lot of responsibility and potential on them in that formation.
Bright might respond to the idea of making it as a Premier League wing back, but no idea if he has it in him. He put in a couple of good tackles last night. Would be really interesting to see if that transition is possible, but could also be terrifying viewing.
If we're doing that I'd like to see Willock considered for the same sort of assessment. Also strong and quick - would like to see him get a bit more time. He seems like he's a player still waiting to happen for us.
Hope Kakay builds form quickly when he gets back. Kane's distribution still does my head in most of the time. Healthy competition would be good for them both. [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 13:56]
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 14:08 - Jan 13 with 2606 views | danehoop |
I'm not sure if it was because it seemed to bring him to the game more, and allow him to show his pace and strength, but I thought BOS seemed to enjoy he first few goes as a wingback. Perhaps it was just that Charlie allows a higher quality of fulcrum to work around, but her certainly didn't shy away from getting stuck in. If he can develop into the role a little more he could become a much more attractive asset for someone. |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 15:10 - Jan 13 with 2488 views | LoneRanger |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 12:57 - Jan 13 by californiahoop |
This a great point, a point that I feel could be levelled at Les also.... Charlie — well, previously our best goalscorer in a generation. But, despite being a 'big-lad', he really is a brilliant goalpoacher (much more akin to a Kevin Phillips type). I think many clubs have mis-used him, thinking of him as a target man (which he can do, but is not great at), when he is a great second striker to a workhorse (like Zamora when we were in the Premier league), which brings me onto… |
Very true. Brings back memories of the few times we played Devon White up front with Les - happy (if sometimes comical) memories [Post edited 13 Jan 2021 21:52]
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| Stumbling across Plan B on 15:22 - Jan 13 with 2450 views | kensalriser |
| Stumbling across Plan B on 08:39 - Jan 13 by Metallica_Hoop |
Welcome.
Great first post.
Laure Berthaud or Joséphine Karlsson? |
Juge Bourdieu of course, as you photographically suggest! |  |
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