| Covid Postponements 12:53 - Dec 23 with 25815 views | boromat |
4 games off this weekend in League One due to Covid-19 infiltrating football club 'bubbles'.
This doesn't bode well for the season I think we're lucky there's not been too many called off due to weather so far but there could be some pile up of fixtures if this is what we are to expect every week. I know there's been talking of a football circuit breaker. I'm not sure how that would work. |  |
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| Covid Postponements on 19:18 - Jan 5 with 2510 views | James1980 |
| Covid Postponements on 18:55 - Jan 5 by Thacks_Rabbits |
I have been drinking sasperella and liquorice root and eating coltsfoot rock most days and I have not had it yet. It’s baffling to medical science. |
Sasaparella! Is there gold in them thaarrr hills? | |
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| Covid Postponements on 19:35 - Jan 5 with 2467 views | D_Alien |
| Covid Postponements on 16:34 - Jan 5 by nordenblue |
How very dare you, you've a lot to learn about this forum and how some can never be wrong |
You're starting to sound like kiwidale now |  |
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| Covid Postponements on 19:52 - Jan 5 with 2427 views | TVOS1907 |
| Covid Postponements on 19:35 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
You're starting to sound like kiwidale now |
Who? |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Covid Postponements on 20:01 - Jan 5 with 2407 views | James1980 |
| Covid Postponements on 19:52 - Jan 5 by TVOS1907 |
Who? |
Dale23years hasn't been on for a while thinking about it or I have missed their posts | |
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| Covid Postponements on 20:08 - Jan 5 with 2396 views | nordenblue |
| Covid Postponements on 19:35 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
You're starting to sound like kiwidale now |
Only now?
Dont worry your precious little self everyone else is always in the wrong anyway, I might need to use the NHS soon am I ok if i run it by you beforehand just to see if I qualify? | | | |
| Covid Postponements on 20:14 - Jan 5 with 2378 views | D_Alien |
| Covid Postponements on 20:08 - Jan 5 by nordenblue |
Only now?
Dont worry your precious little self everyone else is always in the wrong anyway, I might need to use the NHS soon am I ok if i run it by you beforehand just to see if I qualify? |
You will need to if you follow 49th's path, which one can only assume from your earlier contribution
Or was it just trolling?
Hence my kiwidale reference | |
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| Covid Postponements on 21:07 - Jan 5 with 2296 views | nordenblue |
| Covid Postponements on 20:14 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
You will need to if you follow 49th's path, which one can only assume from your earlier contribution
Or was it just trolling?
Hence my kiwidale reference |
As long as I've got your blessing for any treatment I may require I'm over the moon with that....... thanks [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 21:07]
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| Covid Postponements on 21:12 - Jan 5 with 2283 views | TVOS1907 |
| Covid Postponements on 20:01 - Jan 5 by James1980 |
Dale23years hasn't been on for a while thinking about it or I have missed their posts |
No, we haven't played for a few weeks, ergo we haven't failed to win. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Covid Postponements on 21:21 - Jan 5 with 2271 views | D_Alien |
| Covid Postponements on 21:07 - Jan 5 by nordenblue |
As long as I've got your blessing for any treatment I may require I'm over the moon with that....... thanks [Post edited 5 Jan 2021 21:07]
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Yup, just trolling
You're not as good as kiwi, though | |
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| Covid Postponements on 22:07 - Jan 5 with 2220 views | 49thseason |
Thanks for these links, I'm sure you will have realised that they represent a "temporary" authorisation , not a permit to sell these vaccines to all and sundry, Temporary because they feel the risk of Covid 19 is greater than any risk posed by the vaccine. These permits only take into account the data up to the date of the authorisation or about 140days of injecting half the volunteer cohorts (the other half got a placebo)..
A complete new drug submission to the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or any other National approval body, often runs to 1000s of pages and can cost millions of Dollars to complete, These 12 or 13 pages of information are the very bare bones of the information gathered from a short trial albeit with decent numbers of people. AZ admit that they will not have proper data from the complete Phase 3 trial until 2023.
BTW . My 92 year old MiL has had her first dose already and I am sure your elderly Father will be fine, but there is risk and like so many drugs in the past, it might only be the passage of time that uncovers problems as yet unseen or even thought of. This US article outlines some of the problems that come to light only when a new drug is prescribed to the general population. My view is that the risk to my MiL from the Vax and that of Covid are probably on the side of the vaccine but as we get to younger people where so very few fit people have actually had a fatal Covid event and where many may well already have had Covid 19 the risk may well sway the other way.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-drugs-found-cause-side-effects-ye |  | | |
| Covid Postponements on 22:40 - Jan 5 with 2170 views | D_Alien |
| Covid Postponements on 22:07 - Jan 5 by 49thseason |
Thanks for these links, I'm sure you will have realised that they represent a "temporary" authorisation , not a permit to sell these vaccines to all and sundry, Temporary because they feel the risk of Covid 19 is greater than any risk posed by the vaccine. These permits only take into account the data up to the date of the authorisation or about 140days of injecting half the volunteer cohorts (the other half got a placebo)..
A complete new drug submission to the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or any other National approval body, often runs to 1000s of pages and can cost millions of Dollars to complete, These 12 or 13 pages of information are the very bare bones of the information gathered from a short trial albeit with decent numbers of people. AZ admit that they will not have proper data from the complete Phase 3 trial until 2023.
BTW . My 92 year old MiL has had her first dose already and I am sure your elderly Father will be fine, but there is risk and like so many drugs in the past, it might only be the passage of time that uncovers problems as yet unseen or even thought of. This US article outlines some of the problems that come to light only when a new drug is prescribed to the general population. My view is that the risk to my MiL from the Vax and that of Covid are probably on the side of the vaccine but as we get to younger people where so very few fit people have actually had a fatal Covid event and where many may well already have had Covid 19 the risk may well sway the other way.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-drugs-found-cause-side-effects-ye |
That's all very interesting if not exactly news (that long term effects of drug usage can have unforeseen effects), but in the meantime, there are serious concerns of the effects of 'Long Covid' including in younger age groups
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55331166
So how to balance these risks? There needs to be some breathing space (metaphorically as well as physically) before assessments can be made, and that can only happen beyond the immediacy of a pandemic. So for now, the science which leads us to that point has to be respected or we won't get there, or it'll take longer
And where do you draw the line, right now? With what age group does your opinion start to kick in? And just as importantly, how would you propose those age groups below your threshold are persuaded of the relative risks?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2021 22:45]
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| Covid Postponements on 13:47 - Jan 6 with 1939 views | judd |
| Covid Postponements on 22:40 - Jan 5 by D_Alien |
That's all very interesting if not exactly news (that long term effects of drug usage can have unforeseen effects), but in the meantime, there are serious concerns of the effects of 'Long Covid' including in younger age groups
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55331166
So how to balance these risks? There needs to be some breathing space (metaphorically as well as physically) before assessments can be made, and that can only happen beyond the immediacy of a pandemic. So for now, the science which leads us to that point has to be respected or we won't get there, or it'll take longer
And where do you draw the line, right now? With what age group does your opinion start to kick in? And just as importantly, how would you propose those age groups below your threshold are persuaded of the relative risks?
[Post edited 5 Jan 2021 22:45]
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Pfizer chiefs predict a riot |  |
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| Covid Postponements on 14:54 - Jan 6 with 1885 views | DaleiLama |
| Covid Postponements on 13:47 - Jan 6 by judd |
Pfizer chiefs predict a riot |
It's the Moderna way |  |
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| Covid Postponements on 15:00 - Jan 6 with 1876 views | judd |
| Covid Postponements on 14:54 - Jan 6 by DaleiLama |
It's the Moderna way |
Ricky Wilson says? | |
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| Covid Postponements on 15:49 - Jan 6 with 1820 views | 442Dale |
Vitamin D:Ream have already told us things are going to improve. |  |
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| Covid Postponements on 16:14 - Jan 6 with 1790 views | James1980 |
| Covid Postponements on 14:54 - Jan 6 by DaleiLama |
It's the Moderna way |
Blur reckon, The Moderna way is rubbish. | |
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| Covid Postponements on 17:13 - Jan 6 with 1732 views | boromat |
I think this is the right move but there is now going to be a flood of postponements I reckon! | |
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| Covid Postponements on 11:07 - Jan 7 with 1607 views | OxDale |
| Covid Postponements on 22:07 - Jan 5 by 49thseason |
Thanks for these links, I'm sure you will have realised that they represent a "temporary" authorisation , not a permit to sell these vaccines to all and sundry, Temporary because they feel the risk of Covid 19 is greater than any risk posed by the vaccine. These permits only take into account the data up to the date of the authorisation or about 140days of injecting half the volunteer cohorts (the other half got a placebo)..
A complete new drug submission to the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) or any other National approval body, often runs to 1000s of pages and can cost millions of Dollars to complete, These 12 or 13 pages of information are the very bare bones of the information gathered from a short trial albeit with decent numbers of people. AZ admit that they will not have proper data from the complete Phase 3 trial until 2023.
BTW . My 92 year old MiL has had her first dose already and I am sure your elderly Father will be fine, but there is risk and like so many drugs in the past, it might only be the passage of time that uncovers problems as yet unseen or even thought of. This US article outlines some of the problems that come to light only when a new drug is prescribed to the general population. My view is that the risk to my MiL from the Vax and that of Covid are probably on the side of the vaccine but as we get to younger people where so very few fit people have actually had a fatal Covid event and where many may well already have had Covid 19 the risk may well sway the other way.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/new-drugs-found-cause-side-effects-ye |
You make a valid point about the shift in balance of risk/benefit as the demographic changes. And the vaccines are being rolled out so that those most at risk get the vaccine first. That has the consequence of more safety data, over more time before the less at risk get vaccinated. The temporary / emergency use authorisation requires monitoring of the vaccinations for adverse events. In effect a phase 4 clinical trial. To my knowledge (in the public domain) there have been no enduring serious adverse events from the vaccinations, so far. With millions given globally. Whereas yesterday more than a 1000 people died in the UK alone, after testing positive for covid within 28 days. We should always monitor and question the data, a bit like questioning the manager and board at RAFC, and that is why second and third generation drugs/vaccines are made that are safer/more efficacious. Right now, the data favours vaccination with the current products but if the data changes, a change of mind is in order. | | | |
| Covid Postponements on 12:01 - Jan 7 with 1538 views | isitme |
| Covid Postponements on 11:07 - Jan 7 by OxDale |
You make a valid point about the shift in balance of risk/benefit as the demographic changes. And the vaccines are being rolled out so that those most at risk get the vaccine first. That has the consequence of more safety data, over more time before the less at risk get vaccinated. The temporary / emergency use authorisation requires monitoring of the vaccinations for adverse events. In effect a phase 4 clinical trial. To my knowledge (in the public domain) there have been no enduring serious adverse events from the vaccinations, so far. With millions given globally. Whereas yesterday more than a 1000 people died in the UK alone, after testing positive for covid within 28 days. We should always monitor and question the data, a bit like questioning the manager and board at RAFC, and that is why second and third generation drugs/vaccines are made that are safer/more efficacious. Right now, the data favours vaccination with the current products but if the data changes, a change of mind is in order. |
'Yesterday more than a 1000 people died in the UK alone, after testing positive for covid within 28 days'
No they did not. Those deaths were spread over a number of days, they were just reported yesterday. This chart below (bottom one) gives a better indication of the general situation as it includes date of actual death as well as reporting dates.
Whilst around 500 deaths per day is not great. To say 1000 people died yesterday due to Covid is disingenuous. That is without questioning what is a 'Covid death'. [Post edited 7 Jan 2021 12:05]
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| Covid Postponements on 12:42 - Jan 7 with 1479 views | D_Alien |
| Covid Postponements on 11:07 - Jan 7 by OxDale |
You make a valid point about the shift in balance of risk/benefit as the demographic changes. And the vaccines are being rolled out so that those most at risk get the vaccine first. That has the consequence of more safety data, over more time before the less at risk get vaccinated. The temporary / emergency use authorisation requires monitoring of the vaccinations for adverse events. In effect a phase 4 clinical trial. To my knowledge (in the public domain) there have been no enduring serious adverse events from the vaccinations, so far. With millions given globally. Whereas yesterday more than a 1000 people died in the UK alone, after testing positive for covid within 28 days. We should always monitor and question the data, a bit like questioning the manager and board at RAFC, and that is why second and third generation drugs/vaccines are made that are safer/more efficacious. Right now, the data favours vaccination with the current products but if the data changes, a change of mind is in order. |
The 'valid point' you refer to is, in reality, a pretty mundane one that anyone with a modicum of common sense might agree with
The far more important issue here is this: amid the welter of anti-vaxxer falsehoods being perpetrated, if just one person who follows this messageboard is deterred from taking up the vaccination when offered, that's putting their health and those of their loved ones at risk
As for not seeing the difference between questioning matters of football on a football messageboard and seeking to influence people to take negative decisions about their health - really??
[Post edited 7 Jan 2021 12:51]
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| Covid Postponements on 17:09 - Jan 7 with 1342 views | OxDale |
| Covid Postponements on 12:01 - Jan 7 by isitme |
'Yesterday more than a 1000 people died in the UK alone, after testing positive for covid within 28 days'
No they did not. Those deaths were spread over a number of days, they were just reported yesterday. This chart below (bottom one) gives a better indication of the general situation as it includes date of actual death as well as reporting dates.
Whilst around 500 deaths per day is not great. To say 1000 people died yesterday due to Covid is disingenuous. That is without questioning what is a 'Covid death'. [Post edited 7 Jan 2021 12:05]
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Okay you score a small point over my laziness in checking data. The total number of deaths reported in the last 7-days to 7th January 2021 is 4,996, where a person had tested positive for covid-19 within the last 28-days. Happy with that? Versus zero deaths attributed to 1,296,432 people vaccinated. Can you see the merit in that? | | | |
| Covid Postponements on 17:10 - Jan 7 with 1339 views | OxDale |
| Covid Postponements on 12:42 - Jan 7 by D_Alien |
The 'valid point' you refer to is, in reality, a pretty mundane one that anyone with a modicum of common sense might agree with
The far more important issue here is this: amid the welter of anti-vaxxer falsehoods being perpetrated, if just one person who follows this messageboard is deterred from taking up the vaccination when offered, that's putting their health and those of their loved ones at risk
As for not seeing the difference between questioning matters of football on a football messageboard and seeking to influence people to take negative decisions about their health - really??
[Post edited 7 Jan 2021 12:51]
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Funny how people get hold of the wrong end of the stick. The ”valid point” was an attempt to be reasonable and not adversarial. The risk/benefit is clearly in favour of vaccination to any reasonable person. But we should question the data, may be that’s the wrong phrase, examine the data is perhaps better. The scientists and clinicians that developed the vaccines will be and that’s how we get better vaccines. | | | |
| Covid Postponements on 17:26 - Jan 7 with 1313 views | DaleiLama |
| Covid Postponements on 17:09 - Jan 7 by OxDale |
Okay you score a small point over my laziness in checking data. The total number of deaths reported in the last 7-days to 7th January 2021 is 4,996, where a person had tested positive for covid-19 within the last 28-days. Happy with that? Versus zero deaths attributed to 1,296,432 people vaccinated. Can you see the merit in that? |
I think isitme's point had some validity in terms of reporting having lags involved with it but today's number was 1162 anyway. I also think the absolute value of whatever number is issued each day has less relevance to the trends. Of major concern is the fact that treatment has improved survival rates by somewhere in the range of probably 1/3-1/2 and we have similar "levels" of deaths as the first wave now, which confirms where we are and how much trouble we are in. | |
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| Covid Postponements on 17:43 - Jan 7 with 1276 views | isitme |
| Covid Postponements on 17:09 - Jan 7 by OxDale |
Okay you score a small point over my laziness in checking data. The total number of deaths reported in the last 7-days to 7th January 2021 is 4,996, where a person had tested positive for covid-19 within the last 28-days. Happy with that? Versus zero deaths attributed to 1,296,432 people vaccinated. Can you see the merit in that? |
It's not about scoring points or being happy with anything it's about accuracy of data. | | | |
| Covid Postponements on 18:10 - Jan 7 with 1229 views | D_Alien |
| Covid Postponements on 17:43 - Jan 7 by isitme |
It's not about scoring points or being happy with anything it's about accuracy of data. |
Absolutely, and neither is it about not being right and proper to challenge data or scientific analysis
Right now, we have a known risk - the infection from and transmission to others of a virus which can be fatal especially in the elderly and vulnerable; or lead to ongoing debility through Long Covid in any age group
49th is looking at potential risks much further down the line, and pointedly asking that "people should be aware" of those risks. The only outcome of that will be to dissuade some - however few - from taking the necessary steps to protect themselves and wider society through the vaccination programme
Engaging in debate at that theoretical level does nothing more than give it the air that it currently doesn't deserve. There will no doubt be a time for working scientists to examine longer term outcomes and inform the public, but that time absolutely is not now | |
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