| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:19 - Nov 4 with 1169 views | Antti_Heinola |
you obviously weren't paying much attention then. Huge uproar about it. |  |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:23 - Nov 4 with 1145 views | paulparker |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:19 - Nov 4 by Antti_Heinola |
you obviously weren't paying much attention then. Huge uproar about it. |
yeah I must have missed FDC & co posts on this |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:26 - Nov 4 with 1128 views | FDC |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:23 - Nov 4 by paulparker |
yeah I must have missed FDC & co posts on this |
As spokes-person elect for whatever group it is I'm representing, I publicly denounce that crappy poster. |  | | |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:27 - Nov 4 with 1114 views | hopphoops |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 10:45 - Nov 4 by 1BobbyHazell |
Really, I think this is the Britain that is of more concern to the world!!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-is-now-the-second-biggest
Anyway, it is a shame to see some posters (many of whom I respect) who are understandably disappointed at some of the extreme, divisive generalisations used in the press then go on to join in with extreme, divisive generalisations themselves.
If such empty emotive rhetoric is so abhorrent (which it is), why focus on it and offer nothing but snipey returns thus increasing its hold and effect on the situation?
I think if left to honest reflection, an extremely large majority of us would acknowledge that there are pros and cons to being in Europe. As I have stated before my concern (built up of 20 years observation) is that the central power base at the EU is utterly dominated by the very institutions and ideologies that I know for certain many Remainers on here deeply, deeply oppose. That is my key focus as I genuinely believe that we are in the middle of a swift and ultimately devastating power grab that will greatly affect the future chances of a representative democracy that is even allowed to put people/our communities first over the wishes of global corporations and the central banking system.
For those with a genuine interest who want to discuss the issue and share information and view points instead of throwing snarky OTT rhetoric around (whilst complaining about snarky OTT rhetoric!) please read this, I would love to hear people's thoughts.
https://corporateeurope.org/international-trade/2016/10/great-ceta-swindle
If we're so worried about the country becoming a hotbed of angry division, let's make sure all of our actions are a counter to that. Listening and debating with an open mind, as opposed to the instant defensive 'my side is so right and the other side is so wrong and awful' tribalism, is an absolutely vital part of that process.
I'll do my best to do so as well!
Love and peace |
Good post, though on balance I disagree with you. People in positions of power are often incompetent, uncaring of in the public interest, or corrupt. Many are none of those things. Whether or not they are appointed or elected makes little difference overall as far as I can see.
The answer is greater separation of powers, ensuring that at least no one institution has enough power to do massive harm. In the British context I'd say that means more regional devolution, not less power in Europe. Power in Britain and particularly in England has been long hugely focused in Westminster and increasingly since the 80s.
Does this mean the EU is great? No, but if you look at most social, economic or environmental processes that have benefited British people and also people outside Europe, I'd say far more have come from Europe than Westminster. In any case, address the issues from the inside, don't just march off in a huff.
I don't know about CETA but I don't understand how trade agreements can operate outside the legal regimes of the concerned countries. And whether or not we are going to even start to address the climate and environmental crises ongoing, it will be through international cooperation not a national government that can't even wipe its own arse.
To finish, why some much vitriol and division? I think Britain's turned into that couple where one's a shouter and the other continues to speak quietly through gritted teeth, and they just drive each other bananas. |  |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:31 - Nov 4 with 1094 views | Konk |
I think the issue is that the introduction/repealing of British laws show go before Parliament.
Your ability to identify people's true motivations is quite a gift - whether it's "mock outrage" (a phrase which has cropped up all over the place of late with Lilly Allen, Gary Lineker etc) or people seeking to have British law upheld even though they've publically said they just want to see the correct processes followed (something British courts recognised).
I thought Gina Miller was paying the legal fees out of her own pocket? |  |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:31 - Nov 4 with 1092 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:26 - Nov 4 by FDC |
As spokes-person elect for whatever group it is I'm representing, I publicly denounce that crappy poster. |
If that poster proves anything, it's that children's play areas are woefully underfunded in inner-city areas. Add to that the fact that there are two adults using the seesaw in question, and no Policeman / Park Warden to chastise them and call for military back-up. I put that down to local fat cat Tory councillors spending tax payers money on statues of The Queen and giving themselves huge pay rises. As I get older I get more left wing.
Meanwhile: HAS THE LABOUR PARTY HAD SEX WITH YOUR MORTGAGE? [Post edited 4 Nov 2016 15:35]
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:33 - Nov 4 with 1086 views | Jigsore |
do you get off on purposely misinterpreting what everyone says? it actually pains me to read your posts. todays headlines are just an example of the kindling they pile on the bonfire everyday. What does it say about the atmosphere in this country that the PM decided to frame bringing through more British doctors as ousting foreign ones?
those headlines would be irresponsible regardless of the atmosphere, they simply aren't true |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:38 - Nov 4 with 1065 views | FDC |
do you get off on purposely misinterpreting what everyone says?
Incredible isn't it. | | | |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:48 - Nov 4 with 1020 views | TacticalR |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:09 - Nov 4 by Jigsore |
how can you deny a tinderbox atmosphere when all the tabloids front pages today (and probably all the others) are actively stoking the fire.
those things are even remotely comparable and you know it. just out of interest what is Mr. Farage's preferred title? Concerned patriot? Trump lackey? Grandmaster? |
Lord Farage perhaps?
'Mr Nuttall told The Sunday Times: "If Ukip are offered positions in the House of Lords, the first name on the list will be Nigel Farage."
Ms Evans told the paper: "If Nigel wants a seat in the House of Lords, I will campaign like stink for that."'
Nigel Farage should get a peerage, Ukip leadership hopefuls say
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/29/nigel-farage-should-get-a-peerage-uki |  |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:49 - Nov 4 with 1008 views | DannytheR |
Just when I thought I was out...
It's tricky to engage with you about anything, because I genuinely think you're just taking the piss much of the time. But for the record:
I think most people can see that the atmosphere now is very different to what it was before the referendum and everything it involved. I certainly think people who aren't white English will have felt that pretty keenly in the last few months - from talking to people I know directly it's now pretty common to feel hostility and aggression. Sadly, a lot of us from all backgrounds will have witnessed incidents since June 23rd to bear that out.
But then I don't know if you've ever had any experience of being in a racial minority? Or if you know many people who are?
Of course I wouldn't ban any newspapers. You do spend a lot of time attacking straw men, don't you? I think it's cause for regret that the press in this country is overwhelmingly in the hands of multi-millionaires with self-interested political and economic agendas, and being the patriot you are, I''m sure you'd agree it's not healthy that most of them either don't live in the UK, or aren't actually UK citizens at all.
I'm afraid you lost me a bit at the stuff about Farage. I think the reason people are disturbed about today's coverage is because the judges being called "enemies of the people" (sorry, that was me doing the hyperbole, was it?) aren't politicians of any stripe, but judges, executing what seems to be a very precise, watertight definition of British law.
As always, the loudest complaints about ad hominem personal attacks see to come from people who spend their entire time on here making them. I can't remember once letting slip mention of "pompous Home Counties bellends" however tempted I might have sometimes been.
The thing is, despite most of your posts going on (and on) about "Momentum types" and "Corbynistas" (and indeed "SJW pricks") I think most people you find yourself arguing with here come from a variety of different political backgrounds. Personally, I'm not a member of Momentum or the Labour party — I don't think I'd even call myself a supporter of the Labour party —Â and I have precious little time for Jeremy Corbyn.
And just for the record: I know it's easier to argue with stereotypes and cartoon characters you've invented in your head, but again, personally I lived in council flats for most of my childhood, went to state schools, as does my own kid, my grandfathers both fought in the war, a splash of Irish in me but otherwise pretty authentically working class English from top to bottom. Does that make me OK to have an opinion on racism and indeed anything else - or do I have to show you my papers first? [Post edited 4 Nov 2016 15:57]
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:58 - Nov 4 with 955 views | TacticalR |
On Clive_Anderson's posts, I am always reminded of what someone once said of Tony Benn: 'a strange mixture of cynicism and naivety'. | |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:14 - Nov 4 with 893 views | hopphoops |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 15:58 - Nov 4 by TacticalR |
On Clive_Anderson's posts, I am always reminded of what someone once said of Tony Benn: 'a strange mixture of cynicism and naivety'. |
I'm reminded of paranoid xenophobic fruitcakes that I've met. | |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:15 - Nov 4 with 890 views | Konk |
Thank God we have a handful of tax-averse/overseas billionaire press barons to alert us to the dastardly, bastardly mechanisations of the "elite" who insist upon the rule of law being followed.
You'd have thought that definitely not elite, definitely not metropolitan, man of the people Paul Dacre (salary circa £2m+) would be delighted to see Brexit drawn out a bit; he gets to twist even more about "the elite" and the bastards in Brussels whilst also pocketing more EU subsidies - win-win for this man of principle:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/31/paul-dacre-eu-subsidies-hy
As for Spanish hairdressers - say no fu cking more. It's a disgrace. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:23 - Nov 4 with 1807 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:15 - Nov 4 by Konk |
Thank God we have a handful of tax-averse/overseas billionaire press barons to alert us to the dastardly, bastardly mechanisations of the "elite" who insist upon the rule of law being followed.
You'd have thought that definitely not elite, definitely not metropolitan, man of the people Paul Dacre (salary circa £2m+) would be delighted to see Brexit drawn out a bit; he gets to twist even more about "the elite" and the bastards in Brussels whilst also pocketing more EU subsidies - win-win for this man of principle:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/31/paul-dacre-eu-subsidies-hy
As for Spanish hairdressers - say no fu cking more. It's a disgrace. |
Just to outrage some of the baying mob I was going to suggest that at some point in the future we might thank Gina Miller to the extent that us lefties organise a statue of her - we could stick her on the green outside the House Of Commons, but now we're going to need potentially three further plinths for these coiffeurs - or do they come very much as a unit and just require a single, larger plinth?
Gina could be holding a piece of scrolled parchment and a large wad of Euros, the Spanish gang of three could brandish hair dryers / scissors. [Post edited 4 Nov 2016 16:26]
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:33 - Nov 4 with 1770 views | hopphoops |
Met:
Cos I was f'king angry that's why. [...] I hope via social media though she know knows how many millions of people she's angered.
...
Clive:
Tinderbox atmosphere? I think that is more than a little hyperbole. Not everyone is as angry as you are. | |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:36 - Nov 4 with 1753 views | Mytch_QPR |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:33 - Nov 4 by hopphoops |
Met:
Cos I was f'king angry that's why. [...] I hope via social media though she know knows how many millions of people she's angered.
...
Clive:
Tinderbox atmosphere? I think that is more than a little hyperbole. Not everyone is as angry as you are. |
Do not mock the outraged. | |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:42 - Nov 4 with 1734 views | FredManRave |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:36 - Nov 4 by Mytch_QPR |
Do not mock the outraged. |
What about Mock The Hoople?! |  |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:44 - Nov 4 with 1720 views | Toast_R |
I reckon this will get over turned at the high court. |  | | |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:44 - Nov 4 with 1720 views | Konk |
That was MY outrage at the Spanish hairdressers, Clive, not yours. Had I realised there were Spanish hairdressers involved in the case, I would obviously have been suitably (mock?) outraged that foreign born continental shi ts were involved in forcing the British government to abide with British law.
And I did get your point - we've been lied to again and again and again by the elite bast ards who ignore the people, so why should we trust our independent judiciary when they arrive at interpretations the press barons don't agree with. We're just fortunate we have non-domiciled, tax-averse billionaire press barons who are prepared to get involved in British politics to champion the cause of the working man. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:07 - Nov 4 with 1652 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:44 - Nov 4 by Toast_R |
I reckon this will get over turned at the high court. |
I dont think so , the law is pretty clear .
Gina Miller has put herself on the front pages , she has chose to get involved with the biggest constitutional issue for a generation .
I dont wish her any harm , but she should feel the full scrutiny of our free press . She put herself out there no one forced her .
These judges are public servants and as such should be prepared for scrutiny as to their impartiality .
Yesterday I recognized the irony of voting out to allow our justice system to be sacrosanct(an important issue for me ) and the complaining when they made a rullng that I didnt like .
Then I realised that if the appeals go on it will we referred to ....... The European Court .
So for me , No appeal , The Brexit supporting media should list the Brexit voting constituences and how those MPs voted on Article 50 .
Name and shame the ones who sh*t on the people that they are paid to represent .
Then lets have an election ....... [Post edited 4 Nov 2016 17:11]
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:16 - Nov 4 with 1622 views | Konk |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:07 - Nov 4 by essextaxiboy |
I dont think so , the law is pretty clear .
Gina Miller has put herself on the front pages , she has chose to get involved with the biggest constitutional issue for a generation .
I dont wish her any harm , but she should feel the full scrutiny of our free press . She put herself out there no one forced her .
These judges are public servants and as such should be prepared for scrutiny as to their impartiality .
Yesterday I recognized the irony of voting out to allow our justice system to be sacrosanct(an important issue for me ) and the complaining when they made a rullng that I didnt like .
Then I realised that if the appeals go on it will we referred to ....... The European Court .
So for me , No appeal , The Brexit supporting media should list the Brexit voting constituences and how those MPs voted on Article 50 .
Name and shame the ones who sh*t on the people that they are paid to represent .
Then lets have an election ....... [Post edited 4 Nov 2016 17:11]
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"I dont wish her any harm , but she should feel the full scrutiny of our free press . She put herself out there no one forced her."
The impartial, independent judges found in her favour and ruled that the government were wrong to try and avoid Parliament's involvement. Why does it matter who brought the case and why do they require/deserve scrutiny? Either you believe in the rule of law or you don't. Her case simply ensured that the British Government are required to abide by British law.
Should judges be labelled "enemies of the people" for following the law? Isn't that all a bit Putin/Erdogan? Are their sexualities of any relevance?
Brexit will happen and when it does, there will inevitably be people complaining about the outcome because different people have different expectations/understandings of what it means. Some people will perhaps feel sold-out, with others feeling conned. Happy days. | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:23 - Nov 4 with 1608 views | essextaxiboy |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:16 - Nov 4 by Konk |
"I dont wish her any harm , but she should feel the full scrutiny of our free press . She put herself out there no one forced her."
The impartial, independent judges found in her favour and ruled that the government were wrong to try and avoid Parliament's involvement. Why does it matter who brought the case and why do they require/deserve scrutiny? Either you believe in the rule of law or you don't. Her case simply ensured that the British Government are required to abide by British law.
Should judges be labelled "enemies of the people" for following the law? Isn't that all a bit Putin/Erdogan? Are their sexualities of any relevance?
Brexit will happen and when it does, there will inevitably be people complaining about the outcome because different people have different expectations/understandings of what it means. Some people will perhaps feel sold-out, with others feeling conned. Happy days. |
I didnt mention their sexuality, only their impartiality and if that is beyond scrutiny then they have nothing to be concerned about.
I think that if Gina Millar brings a case like this to court " to ensure that the law is followed " I think it is fair to ask if she has skin in the game . | | | |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:28 - Nov 4 with 1592 views | hoof_hearted |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 16:36 - Nov 4 by Mytch_QPR |
Do not mock the outraged. |
Admirable staying power on this thread. Proper Jack Russell  . |  | | |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:38 - Nov 4 with 1575 views | Konk |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:23 - Nov 4 by essextaxiboy |
I didnt mention their sexuality, only their impartiality and if that is beyond scrutiny then they have nothing to be concerned about.
I think that if Gina Millar brings a case like this to court " to ensure that the law is followed " I think it is fair to ask if she has skin in the game . |
No, you didn't mention the judges' sexuality, but for some reason the Mail thought it was relevant that one of the judges was "openly gay".
Whatever her motivation, the High Court found in her favour i.e. According to British law, her argument was right. Great. Don't we like living in a country where the courts uphold the rule of law? If we do, then why do the press need to launch into what will inevitably be a petty, invasive, bullying campaign against the person who brought the case to court? | |
| Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts |
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| Brexit, not happening now?? on 17:45 - Nov 4 with 1563 views | QPR_John |
| Brexit, not happening now?? on 10:16 - Nov 4 by daveB |
but it's not giving anything away, the judges ruled they should as elected officials have a say in this as they would with any law being passed. |
My point was about the EU not directly with the court verdict the government have given some of their powers away to the EU without the consent of the people. The idea that those that wanted to leave are hypocritical because they now do not want parliament to discuss when article 50 is invoked is blurring the issue. The decision on article 50 was delegated, for want of a better word, to the referendum hence does not need further scrutiny as the decision has already been made.
Well at least that is how I saw it until I was made aware that referendum as passed by parliament was only advisory. I was previously unaware of this and in reality makes all the arguments since superfluous. The referendum was a complete waste of time as it did not bind parliament [Post edited 4 Nov 2016 17:56]
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