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I remember having celebratory drinks a few times in June when we had been elected, broke up the summer , but yeah it was a farce. I have same anomosity towards Alty fans that they have to us..I live by do as you would do unto others, so if any cheshire cockwomble still has a bee in his bonnet, I am happy to rub it in so to speak. Wan""rs club , wan""r town
-1
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 16:19 - Nov 9 with 3622 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 13:38 - Nov 9 by ParkinsGimp
I remember having celebratory drinks a few times in June when we had been elected, broke up the summer , but yeah it was a farce. I have same anomosity towards Alty fans that they have to us..I live by do as you would do unto others, so if any cheshire cockwomble still has a bee in his bonnet, I am happy to rub it in so to speak. Wan""rs club , wan""r town
Hi Alty fan here in peace.
I have supported Alty for 50 years or so and this animosity you refer to doesnt exist now, its ancient history, most fans arent even aware of that saga. Even those that do, like me have forgotten most of it, so I was surprised to see some Dale fans vitriolic about Alty like we hated Dale etc which is utter ballcocks. The animosity at the time was mainly aimed at the inept governing body and some individuals like Stokoe and the Grimsby chairman who got pissed and fell asleep and didnt vote and then lied his head off and soon thereafter automatic promotion and relegation came in which most fair minded people agree with. Alty deserved to get in, they didnt and now its history.
The fact that Dale recovered well and Alty didnt reach those heights again, and probably never will is academic.
We know our place, but it would be quite nice to renew our acquaintance and knock you out of the FA cupo again :)
2
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 17:27 - Nov 9 with 3524 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 13:38 - Nov 9 by ParkinsGimp
I remember having celebratory drinks a few times in June when we had been elected, broke up the summer , but yeah it was a farce. I have same anomosity towards Alty fans that they have to us..I live by do as you would do unto others, so if any cheshire cockwomble still has a bee in his bonnet, I am happy to rub it in so to speak. Wan""rs club , wan""r town
Surely a bigger farce was the fact that the bottom team could survive re-election while a team finishing above them got voted out. Isn't that what happened one year when we finished last and Southport were voted out?
Edgar Allan's Crow
0
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 17:37 - Nov 9 with 3510 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 16:19 - Nov 9 by altyfan
Hi Alty fan here in peace.
I have supported Alty for 50 years or so and this animosity you refer to doesnt exist now, its ancient history, most fans arent even aware of that saga. Even those that do, like me have forgotten most of it, so I was surprised to see some Dale fans vitriolic about Alty like we hated Dale etc which is utter ballcocks. The animosity at the time was mainly aimed at the inept governing body and some individuals like Stokoe and the Grimsby chairman who got pissed and fell asleep and didnt vote and then lied his head off and soon thereafter automatic promotion and relegation came in which most fair minded people agree with. Alty deserved to get in, they didnt and now its history.
The fact that Dale recovered well and Alty didnt reach those heights again, and probably never will is academic.
We know our place, but it would be quite nice to renew our acquaintance and knock you out of the FA cupo again :)
You need to drop that Grimsby Town baggage. Calling their Chairman a piss head and a liar also reveals a underlying bitterness, let it go!!
0
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:30 - Nov 9 with 3371 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 17:37 - Nov 9 by TalkingSutty
You need to drop that Grimsby Town baggage. Calling their Chairman a piss head and a liar also reveals a underlying bitterness, let it go!!
I was only referring to what people said at the time, not what I thought. I dont have any issues at all with Grimsby, we have played them lots of times recently (not lost one game yet and they have a super following).
In fact I didnt even know about the story about that day until I read a recent account of exactly what happened in 1980, its a bit long but if you are interested in the Alty account its below;
WHEN WE WERE KINGS: ALTY IN THE APL 1979/80 PART 49: YEARS OF REFUSAL
On Wednesday, 7th May 1980, just four days after Alty had secured the inaugural Alliance Premier League (APL) title via their memorable 2-0 triumph at Gravesend & Northfleet, the Football League Management Committee visited Moss Lane in order to undertake an additional ground inspection which passed and, therefore, they were now authorised to proceed as the sole Non League club nominated for election to the Fourth Division at the League’s forthcoming AGM.
The Football League’s AGM was scheduled to be held at the Café Royal, Regent Street, Piccadilly, London on Friday, 6th June 1980, a date that the Robins’ Chairman, Noel White, had termed as Altrincham FC’s very own D-Day. The quartet of Fourth Division clubs who had finished the 1979/80 season in the designated relegation zone and, thus, were obliged to apply for re-election to the Football League comprised: Hereford United (21st position on 36 points); Darlington (22nd spot with 35 points); Crewe Alexandra (23rd place on 35 points) and Rochdale (24th position with a meagre total of 27 points).
Hereford United had only been voted into the Football League at the end of the 1971/72 season and were expected to receive ample backing for their re-election bid. Notwithstanding the fact that repeat offenders Darlington and Crewe Alexandra were both applying for re-election for the fifth time in the last 11 seasons, it was Rochdale whose Football League membership was overwhelmingly adjudged to be in severe jeopardy.
The impoverished Spotland club, who were reportedly losing £2,000 per week, were entreating for their re-election for the second time in three years and had just endured an ignominious campaign, which had concluded in them being anchored to the foot of the Fourth Division with the ensuing abject statistics: played: 46; won: seven; drawn: 13; lost: 26; goals scored: 33; goals conceded: 79 and points accumulated: 27 from a possible tally of 92. Indeed a sequence of fifteen league matches without a win, during which they had managed to score just a solitary goal in 1350 minutes (i.e. 22.5 hours) of playing time.
In addition, crowds at the decaying Spotland stadium were dwindling alarmingly and the home fixture versus SC**thorpe United on Friday, 18th April 1980 had attracted an attendance of merely 1,018 (a crowd of 2,653 congregated inside Moss Lane on the following day for the visit of AP Leamington). The apathy afflicting Rochdale’s supporters could be gauged by the revelation that a recent fundraising dinner with Jack Charlton and Lawrie McMenemy as the guest speakers had been cancelled after a total of only 23 tickets had been sold.
Tainted by this catalogue of debacles and decline, Rochdale adopted a re-election strategy that consisted of resorting to attempts to evoke sentiment and sympathy in a campaign centred around their Club President and former Chairman, Fred Ratcliffe. “Mister Rochdale” was hoping to exploit his personal standing and the Boardroom links and friendships with other club Chairmen that he had forged over many seasons in a bid to influence voters and invoke the power of the ‘Old Pals’ Act‘ to preserve his club‘s tenure in the Football League.
Rochdale were also emphasising the continuing presence at the club of their current manager, Bob Stokoe, who had led Sunderland to that momentous 1-0 success against Leeds United at Wembley in the 1973 FA Cup Final and was well-respected in football circles. All this despite the fact that Stokoe had endeavoured to fine his players half a week’s wages after their mortifyingly inept performance in a 5-1 collapse at Tranmere Rovers and had recently depicted his onerous task at Spotland as being “a little bit like trying to raise the dead.”
In marked contrast, the progressive Robins could point to success both on and off the pitch. Their team had been crowned APL Champions; home attendances had increased to an average of just under 2,000; the club was financially sound, having made a record profit of £53,971 for the 1978/79 season, and further investment to the facilities at Moss Lane was planned in the shape of an estimated £100,000 face-lift, which included the extension and refurbishment of the dressing rooms and club offices; a brand new reception lounge for visitors and officials and the installation of new turnstiles as well as a gymnasium.
Since January 1980, Noel White and his fellow Director, Raymond Donn, had spent many hours on the road undertaking visits to Football League clubs and canvassing the votes of their respective Chairmen. In recent weeks, a ‘flying squad’ of Altrincham FC Directors had been touring the country on a mission to drum up support for the club’s nomination, chiefly amongst the First and Second Division clubs who would control the majority of the votes in the imminent ballot.
The Robins’ enterprising and sanguine Chairman averred: “This is the best chance and the strongest case that that we have ever had. The club is geared for Fourth Division football. The only thing that can defeat us is sympathy for the clubs who have finished in the bottom four again. On merit, we should get in.“
For the Robins’ third stab at gaining admission to the Football League, the club took a party of six officials down to the Café Royal although only two of them would be permitted to attend the actual AGM, which was scheduled to commence at 2.00pm. However, the prospect of a tension-filled few hours beckoned, as the re-election issue was to be the final item on the agenda.
The somewhat arcane re-election procedure read as follows. All of the 44 clubs comprising the First and Second Divisions were each granted a voting right. The remaining 48 Third and Fourth Division clubs had six voting rights between them and the President of the Football League (who, at that juncture, was the Newcastle United Chairman, Lord Westwood), also possessed one voting right. Each voting right entitled the holder to cast four votes i.e. to select four clubs from the five candidates seeking membership, namely Hereford United; Darlington; Crewe Alexandra; Rochdale and Altrincham. So, the sum of 51 voting rights equated to a total of 204 votes to be allocated.
The votes cast in the eventual Football League re-election poll for the 1979/80 season were as follows: Darlington: 49; Crewe Alexandra: 48; Hereford United: 48; Rochdale: 26 and Altrincham: 25. If the Robins had received just one additional vote and tied with the Spotland club, a second ballot featuring only those two candidates would have ensued, in which the eligible electors were then obliged to cast a single vote for the club of their choice. In the two preceding instances when it had proved necessary to hold a second round of voting, the Non League club had, indeed, prevailed on each occasion and, hence, had secured admission into the Football League (Hereford United defeating Barrow in 1972 and Wigan Athletic overcoming Southport in 1978).
Alty‘s initial emotions of intense heartache and sheer disbelief at this cruel news that they had failed to displace Rochdale by just two votes were subsequently exacerbated by disillusionment and the impression that they had been cheated, when it emerged that two clubs had actually omitted to vote and the absence of their ballot papers had not been detected until after the AGM had concluded.
The first of the culprits to be identified were Second Division Luton Town, whose delegation of representatives had been late in arriving for the meeting after ostensibly getting held up in London’s traffic. Their Chairman, Denis Mortimer, duly released a statement: “The traffic was bad and we were delayed. To be fair to everyone involved, I am not going to reveal who we would have voted for.”
Grimsby Town were later unmasked as being the second guilty party in this electoral chaos, when it was disclosed that the Chairman of the newly-promoted Third Division Champions, Dick Middleton, had contrived to sit in the main body of the hall in error, rather than proceed to his rightful place at the front amongst the voting members. Consequently, he was not handed his ballot paper.
The Manchester Evening News’ Non League Football correspondent, Doug Peacock, succeeded in buttonholing an unnamed Grimsby Town official as they scurried away from the AGM, who sheepishly divulged their account of the cause of this farcical confusion: “We understood that in previous years, representatives of newly-promoted clubs stayed among the non-voting-members of the Third and Fourth Divisions during the meeting. It was a misunderstanding.”
However, a radically different theory pertaining to the reason for the absence of four of this total of eight uncast votes was subsequently expounded by Graham Heathcote in Andy Mitten’s article on Altrincham FC in the November 2004 issue of Four Four Two magazine, when the Alty midfielder alleged that: “One bloke who promised to support us got pissed and fell asleep."
Just to add insult to injury, the Robins’ officials intimated that both of the clubs involved had previously indicated that they were in favour of electing Alty into the Fourth Division. A crestfallen Noel White remarked: “Two clubs did not vote and they were as near as you can get to being ones we could bank on. But they did not arrive and now we feel a little bit cheated. We are very, very disappointed because we went flat out for the league this time. We only asked to be judged on merit and I don’t think we have been.”
Meanwhile, a dejected Tony Sanders was unable to mask his justifiable indignation and frustration at the Robins’ rebuff by the closed shop of the Football League: “What happened at this annual meeting was not only a dreadful setback for Altrincham FC, it was a slap in the face for the whole APL. We could win the APL again next season but, unless the present system is changed, we might as well not bother turning up at the AGM. It’s like playing in the FA Cup Final and being told you may not get the trophy even if you win the match.“
Alty’s burgeoning sense of injustice at this narrow rejection of their case for membership of the Football League was compounded by subsequent revelations that Rochdale had, in fact, sold their Spotland ground for £175,000 two months ago (with the anonymous buyer leasing it back to them at a rental of £35,000 pa) and yet were now about to launch a public appeal in effort to raise £50,000 to be directed to paying off debts and funding the team for the following season. There were also reports that only six players had been named on the club’s retained list at the end of the 1979/80 season and, to date, three of these had already declined terms to remain at Spotland for another year.
On Tuesday, 24th June 1980, the whole sorry travesty of justice then plumbed new depths when Bob Stokoe resigned as the manager of Rochdale FC. A report published in the Daily Express on the following day carried a quote from Stokoe in which he confessed that he had made up his mind to quit his role prior to the end of the season but had deferred the public announcement of his decision until now for a specific and all-important motive: “I held back because I didn‘t want to hinder the club’s application for re-election.”
This gradual unveiling of the turmoil at Spotland elicited the following pointed observation from Noel White: “I’m surprised that the true state of affairs that seems to exist at Rochdale was not explored before the annual meeting.”
Stokoe’s rather ignoble and equivocal resignation even prompted a trenchant censure from the Chairman of the APL (and then Chairman of Maidstone United), Jim Thompson, whose personal statement about the controversial affair accused the former Spotland boss of “a deliberate move to deceive the clubs voting into believing that Rochdale FC was going to have his services for the coming season and, thus, affect their decision.” His scathing rebuke went on to pose the question as to whether such a misleading action was “tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and, if it is, whether any action is going to be taken against Mr Stokoe.”
In response, Bob Stokoe (in contradiction of a disclosure previously cited in the national press), denied these charges: “I have nothing to hide. Mr Thompson has been misinformed and I would willingly appear before any commission with a clear conscience.” The Football League did not take any subsequent action against either Rochdale FC or Bob Stokoe regarding this whole distasteful saga.
When the dust had finally settled, Tony Sanders turned his thoughts to the task ahead of him and issued the following resolute and passionate vow of intent: “Our aim, without doubt, is to surpass last season’s achievements and to knock on the door of the Football League so loud that notice has got to be taken.”
Indeed, the 1980/81 season would prove to be the most successful one in the history of Altrincham FC to date. But that’s another story and Alty still didnt get in.
0
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:39 - Nov 9 with 3338 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:30 - Nov 9 by altyfan
I was only referring to what people said at the time, not what I thought. I dont have any issues at all with Grimsby, we have played them lots of times recently (not lost one game yet and they have a super following).
In fact I didnt even know about the story about that day until I read a recent account of exactly what happened in 1980, its a bit long but if you are interested in the Alty account its below;
WHEN WE WERE KINGS: ALTY IN THE APL 1979/80 PART 49: YEARS OF REFUSAL
On Wednesday, 7th May 1980, just four days after Alty had secured the inaugural Alliance Premier League (APL) title via their memorable 2-0 triumph at Gravesend & Northfleet, the Football League Management Committee visited Moss Lane in order to undertake an additional ground inspection which passed and, therefore, they were now authorised to proceed as the sole Non League club nominated for election to the Fourth Division at the League’s forthcoming AGM.
The Football League’s AGM was scheduled to be held at the Café Royal, Regent Street, Piccadilly, London on Friday, 6th June 1980, a date that the Robins’ Chairman, Noel White, had termed as Altrincham FC’s very own D-Day. The quartet of Fourth Division clubs who had finished the 1979/80 season in the designated relegation zone and, thus, were obliged to apply for re-election to the Football League comprised: Hereford United (21st position on 36 points); Darlington (22nd spot with 35 points); Crewe Alexandra (23rd place on 35 points) and Rochdale (24th position with a meagre total of 27 points).
Hereford United had only been voted into the Football League at the end of the 1971/72 season and were expected to receive ample backing for their re-election bid. Notwithstanding the fact that repeat offenders Darlington and Crewe Alexandra were both applying for re-election for the fifth time in the last 11 seasons, it was Rochdale whose Football League membership was overwhelmingly adjudged to be in severe jeopardy.
The impoverished Spotland club, who were reportedly losing £2,000 per week, were entreating for their re-election for the second time in three years and had just endured an ignominious campaign, which had concluded in them being anchored to the foot of the Fourth Division with the ensuing abject statistics: played: 46; won: seven; drawn: 13; lost: 26; goals scored: 33; goals conceded: 79 and points accumulated: 27 from a possible tally of 92. Indeed a sequence of fifteen league matches without a win, during which they had managed to score just a solitary goal in 1350 minutes (i.e. 22.5 hours) of playing time.
In addition, crowds at the decaying Spotland stadium were dwindling alarmingly and the home fixture versus SC**thorpe United on Friday, 18th April 1980 had attracted an attendance of merely 1,018 (a crowd of 2,653 congregated inside Moss Lane on the following day for the visit of AP Leamington). The apathy afflicting Rochdale’s supporters could be gauged by the revelation that a recent fundraising dinner with Jack Charlton and Lawrie McMenemy as the guest speakers had been cancelled after a total of only 23 tickets had been sold.
Tainted by this catalogue of debacles and decline, Rochdale adopted a re-election strategy that consisted of resorting to attempts to evoke sentiment and sympathy in a campaign centred around their Club President and former Chairman, Fred Ratcliffe. “Mister Rochdale” was hoping to exploit his personal standing and the Boardroom links and friendships with other club Chairmen that he had forged over many seasons in a bid to influence voters and invoke the power of the ‘Old Pals’ Act‘ to preserve his club‘s tenure in the Football League.
Rochdale were also emphasising the continuing presence at the club of their current manager, Bob Stokoe, who had led Sunderland to that momentous 1-0 success against Leeds United at Wembley in the 1973 FA Cup Final and was well-respected in football circles. All this despite the fact that Stokoe had endeavoured to fine his players half a week’s wages after their mortifyingly inept performance in a 5-1 collapse at Tranmere Rovers and had recently depicted his onerous task at Spotland as being “a little bit like trying to raise the dead.”
In marked contrast, the progressive Robins could point to success both on and off the pitch. Their team had been crowned APL Champions; home attendances had increased to an average of just under 2,000; the club was financially sound, having made a record profit of £53,971 for the 1978/79 season, and further investment to the facilities at Moss Lane was planned in the shape of an estimated £100,000 face-lift, which included the extension and refurbishment of the dressing rooms and club offices; a brand new reception lounge for visitors and officials and the installation of new turnstiles as well as a gymnasium.
Since January 1980, Noel White and his fellow Director, Raymond Donn, had spent many hours on the road undertaking visits to Football League clubs and canvassing the votes of their respective Chairmen. In recent weeks, a ‘flying squad’ of Altrincham FC Directors had been touring the country on a mission to drum up support for the club’s nomination, chiefly amongst the First and Second Division clubs who would control the majority of the votes in the imminent ballot.
The Robins’ enterprising and sanguine Chairman averred: “This is the best chance and the strongest case that that we have ever had. The club is geared for Fourth Division football. The only thing that can defeat us is sympathy for the clubs who have finished in the bottom four again. On merit, we should get in.“
For the Robins’ third stab at gaining admission to the Football League, the club took a party of six officials down to the Café Royal although only two of them would be permitted to attend the actual AGM, which was scheduled to commence at 2.00pm. However, the prospect of a tension-filled few hours beckoned, as the re-election issue was to be the final item on the agenda.
The somewhat arcane re-election procedure read as follows. All of the 44 clubs comprising the First and Second Divisions were each granted a voting right. The remaining 48 Third and Fourth Division clubs had six voting rights between them and the President of the Football League (who, at that juncture, was the Newcastle United Chairman, Lord Westwood), also possessed one voting right. Each voting right entitled the holder to cast four votes i.e. to select four clubs from the five candidates seeking membership, namely Hereford United; Darlington; Crewe Alexandra; Rochdale and Altrincham. So, the sum of 51 voting rights equated to a total of 204 votes to be allocated.
The votes cast in the eventual Football League re-election poll for the 1979/80 season were as follows: Darlington: 49; Crewe Alexandra: 48; Hereford United: 48; Rochdale: 26 and Altrincham: 25. If the Robins had received just one additional vote and tied with the Spotland club, a second ballot featuring only those two candidates would have ensued, in which the eligible electors were then obliged to cast a single vote for the club of their choice. In the two preceding instances when it had proved necessary to hold a second round of voting, the Non League club had, indeed, prevailed on each occasion and, hence, had secured admission into the Football League (Hereford United defeating Barrow in 1972 and Wigan Athletic overcoming Southport in 1978).
Alty‘s initial emotions of intense heartache and sheer disbelief at this cruel news that they had failed to displace Rochdale by just two votes were subsequently exacerbated by disillusionment and the impression that they had been cheated, when it emerged that two clubs had actually omitted to vote and the absence of their ballot papers had not been detected until after the AGM had concluded.
The first of the culprits to be identified were Second Division Luton Town, whose delegation of representatives had been late in arriving for the meeting after ostensibly getting held up in London’s traffic. Their Chairman, Denis Mortimer, duly released a statement: “The traffic was bad and we were delayed. To be fair to everyone involved, I am not going to reveal who we would have voted for.”
Grimsby Town were later unmasked as being the second guilty party in this electoral chaos, when it was disclosed that the Chairman of the newly-promoted Third Division Champions, Dick Middleton, had contrived to sit in the main body of the hall in error, rather than proceed to his rightful place at the front amongst the voting members. Consequently, he was not handed his ballot paper.
The Manchester Evening News’ Non League Football correspondent, Doug Peacock, succeeded in buttonholing an unnamed Grimsby Town official as they scurried away from the AGM, who sheepishly divulged their account of the cause of this farcical confusion: “We understood that in previous years, representatives of newly-promoted clubs stayed among the non-voting-members of the Third and Fourth Divisions during the meeting. It was a misunderstanding.”
However, a radically different theory pertaining to the reason for the absence of four of this total of eight uncast votes was subsequently expounded by Graham Heathcote in Andy Mitten’s article on Altrincham FC in the November 2004 issue of Four Four Two magazine, when the Alty midfielder alleged that: “One bloke who promised to support us got pissed and fell asleep."
Just to add insult to injury, the Robins’ officials intimated that both of the clubs involved had previously indicated that they were in favour of electing Alty into the Fourth Division. A crestfallen Noel White remarked: “Two clubs did not vote and they were as near as you can get to being ones we could bank on. But they did not arrive and now we feel a little bit cheated. We are very, very disappointed because we went flat out for the league this time. We only asked to be judged on merit and I don’t think we have been.”
Meanwhile, a dejected Tony Sanders was unable to mask his justifiable indignation and frustration at the Robins’ rebuff by the closed shop of the Football League: “What happened at this annual meeting was not only a dreadful setback for Altrincham FC, it was a slap in the face for the whole APL. We could win the APL again next season but, unless the present system is changed, we might as well not bother turning up at the AGM. It’s like playing in the FA Cup Final and being told you may not get the trophy even if you win the match.“
Alty’s burgeoning sense of injustice at this narrow rejection of their case for membership of the Football League was compounded by subsequent revelations that Rochdale had, in fact, sold their Spotland ground for £175,000 two months ago (with the anonymous buyer leasing it back to them at a rental of £35,000 pa) and yet were now about to launch a public appeal in effort to raise £50,000 to be directed to paying off debts and funding the team for the following season. There were also reports that only six players had been named on the club’s retained list at the end of the 1979/80 season and, to date, three of these had already declined terms to remain at Spotland for another year.
On Tuesday, 24th June 1980, the whole sorry travesty of justice then plumbed new depths when Bob Stokoe resigned as the manager of Rochdale FC. A report published in the Daily Express on the following day carried a quote from Stokoe in which he confessed that he had made up his mind to quit his role prior to the end of the season but had deferred the public announcement of his decision until now for a specific and all-important motive: “I held back because I didn‘t want to hinder the club’s application for re-election.”
This gradual unveiling of the turmoil at Spotland elicited the following pointed observation from Noel White: “I’m surprised that the true state of affairs that seems to exist at Rochdale was not explored before the annual meeting.”
Stokoe’s rather ignoble and equivocal resignation even prompted a trenchant censure from the Chairman of the APL (and then Chairman of Maidstone United), Jim Thompson, whose personal statement about the controversial affair accused the former Spotland boss of “a deliberate move to deceive the clubs voting into believing that Rochdale FC was going to have his services for the coming season and, thus, affect their decision.” His scathing rebuke went on to pose the question as to whether such a misleading action was “tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and, if it is, whether any action is going to be taken against Mr Stokoe.”
In response, Bob Stokoe (in contradiction of a disclosure previously cited in the national press), denied these charges: “I have nothing to hide. Mr Thompson has been misinformed and I would willingly appear before any commission with a clear conscience.” The Football League did not take any subsequent action against either Rochdale FC or Bob Stokoe regarding this whole distasteful saga.
When the dust had finally settled, Tony Sanders turned his thoughts to the task ahead of him and issued the following resolute and passionate vow of intent: “Our aim, without doubt, is to surpass last season’s achievements and to knock on the door of the Football League so loud that notice has got to be taken.”
Indeed, the 1980/81 season would prove to be the most successful one in the history of Altrincham FC to date. But that’s another story and Alty still didnt get in.
Bloody shame for you that, fine margins. Thanks for the post.
0
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:43 - Nov 9 with 3317 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 19:20 - Nov 8 by SuddenLad
He only departed these shores when the lure of 'filthy lucre' and certain 'promises' were given. Money isn't everything, but KH's 'fire-fighting' skills were sadly insufficient.
Sadly, as it turned out, it wasn't to be. Clearly, Oakwell doesn't provide a happy environment to work in as a variety of people will testify.
Must be hell, standing/sitting on the sidelines watching your club slip towards the bottom of the football coupon. The common factor seems to be Cryne. I confess to not knowing the first thing about him, but the longer he stays, it seems the bigger your problems will become and the worse the reputation for working there will be.
Reading your message board is an eye-opener.
I think it's as obvious as the nose on Jimmy McNulty's face that being manager of Barnsley FC under the last ten years regime is a bloody difficult task. It all points to Cryne as being the problem as he's the one constant. Of course, you could point to the supporters but then you'd be daft.
I've just uploaded this if anybody is interested. I've listened back to it and I'm amazed at how jovial I am about things. I can now say I've seen my club at its very best, and very worst. When blokes in their eighties tell me it's as bad as they've known, with League Two still to come, then wow.
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:40 - Nov 9 by TalkingSutty
Bloody shame for you that, fine margins. Thanks for the post.
Aye, and it puts to bed the stories I'd heard that Stokoe was instrumental in trying to drum up votes for the Dale - he just waited till after the vote before resigning.
In our defence, I think it's the only time we've ever finished rock bottom of the (modern) football league, and other teams have done so more often and survived. Every loser deserves another chance, and although it took a while, our history since then shows we haven't spurned that chance.
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:30 - Nov 9 by altyfan
I was only referring to what people said at the time, not what I thought. I dont have any issues at all with Grimsby, we have played them lots of times recently (not lost one game yet and they have a super following).
In fact I didnt even know about the story about that day until I read a recent account of exactly what happened in 1980, its a bit long but if you are interested in the Alty account its below;
WHEN WE WERE KINGS: ALTY IN THE APL 1979/80 PART 49: YEARS OF REFUSAL
On Wednesday, 7th May 1980, just four days after Alty had secured the inaugural Alliance Premier League (APL) title via their memorable 2-0 triumph at Gravesend & Northfleet, the Football League Management Committee visited Moss Lane in order to undertake an additional ground inspection which passed and, therefore, they were now authorised to proceed as the sole Non League club nominated for election to the Fourth Division at the League’s forthcoming AGM.
The Football League’s AGM was scheduled to be held at the Café Royal, Regent Street, Piccadilly, London on Friday, 6th June 1980, a date that the Robins’ Chairman, Noel White, had termed as Altrincham FC’s very own D-Day. The quartet of Fourth Division clubs who had finished the 1979/80 season in the designated relegation zone and, thus, were obliged to apply for re-election to the Football League comprised: Hereford United (21st position on 36 points); Darlington (22nd spot with 35 points); Crewe Alexandra (23rd place on 35 points) and Rochdale (24th position with a meagre total of 27 points).
Hereford United had only been voted into the Football League at the end of the 1971/72 season and were expected to receive ample backing for their re-election bid. Notwithstanding the fact that repeat offenders Darlington and Crewe Alexandra were both applying for re-election for the fifth time in the last 11 seasons, it was Rochdale whose Football League membership was overwhelmingly adjudged to be in severe jeopardy.
The impoverished Spotland club, who were reportedly losing £2,000 per week, were entreating for their re-election for the second time in three years and had just endured an ignominious campaign, which had concluded in them being anchored to the foot of the Fourth Division with the ensuing abject statistics: played: 46; won: seven; drawn: 13; lost: 26; goals scored: 33; goals conceded: 79 and points accumulated: 27 from a possible tally of 92. Indeed a sequence of fifteen league matches without a win, during which they had managed to score just a solitary goal in 1350 minutes (i.e. 22.5 hours) of playing time.
In addition, crowds at the decaying Spotland stadium were dwindling alarmingly and the home fixture versus SC**thorpe United on Friday, 18th April 1980 had attracted an attendance of merely 1,018 (a crowd of 2,653 congregated inside Moss Lane on the following day for the visit of AP Leamington). The apathy afflicting Rochdale’s supporters could be gauged by the revelation that a recent fundraising dinner with Jack Charlton and Lawrie McMenemy as the guest speakers had been cancelled after a total of only 23 tickets had been sold.
Tainted by this catalogue of debacles and decline, Rochdale adopted a re-election strategy that consisted of resorting to attempts to evoke sentiment and sympathy in a campaign centred around their Club President and former Chairman, Fred Ratcliffe. “Mister Rochdale” was hoping to exploit his personal standing and the Boardroom links and friendships with other club Chairmen that he had forged over many seasons in a bid to influence voters and invoke the power of the ‘Old Pals’ Act‘ to preserve his club‘s tenure in the Football League.
Rochdale were also emphasising the continuing presence at the club of their current manager, Bob Stokoe, who had led Sunderland to that momentous 1-0 success against Leeds United at Wembley in the 1973 FA Cup Final and was well-respected in football circles. All this despite the fact that Stokoe had endeavoured to fine his players half a week’s wages after their mortifyingly inept performance in a 5-1 collapse at Tranmere Rovers and had recently depicted his onerous task at Spotland as being “a little bit like trying to raise the dead.”
In marked contrast, the progressive Robins could point to success both on and off the pitch. Their team had been crowned APL Champions; home attendances had increased to an average of just under 2,000; the club was financially sound, having made a record profit of £53,971 for the 1978/79 season, and further investment to the facilities at Moss Lane was planned in the shape of an estimated £100,000 face-lift, which included the extension and refurbishment of the dressing rooms and club offices; a brand new reception lounge for visitors and officials and the installation of new turnstiles as well as a gymnasium.
Since January 1980, Noel White and his fellow Director, Raymond Donn, had spent many hours on the road undertaking visits to Football League clubs and canvassing the votes of their respective Chairmen. In recent weeks, a ‘flying squad’ of Altrincham FC Directors had been touring the country on a mission to drum up support for the club’s nomination, chiefly amongst the First and Second Division clubs who would control the majority of the votes in the imminent ballot.
The Robins’ enterprising and sanguine Chairman averred: “This is the best chance and the strongest case that that we have ever had. The club is geared for Fourth Division football. The only thing that can defeat us is sympathy for the clubs who have finished in the bottom four again. On merit, we should get in.“
For the Robins’ third stab at gaining admission to the Football League, the club took a party of six officials down to the Café Royal although only two of them would be permitted to attend the actual AGM, which was scheduled to commence at 2.00pm. However, the prospect of a tension-filled few hours beckoned, as the re-election issue was to be the final item on the agenda.
The somewhat arcane re-election procedure read as follows. All of the 44 clubs comprising the First and Second Divisions were each granted a voting right. The remaining 48 Third and Fourth Division clubs had six voting rights between them and the President of the Football League (who, at that juncture, was the Newcastle United Chairman, Lord Westwood), also possessed one voting right. Each voting right entitled the holder to cast four votes i.e. to select four clubs from the five candidates seeking membership, namely Hereford United; Darlington; Crewe Alexandra; Rochdale and Altrincham. So, the sum of 51 voting rights equated to a total of 204 votes to be allocated.
The votes cast in the eventual Football League re-election poll for the 1979/80 season were as follows: Darlington: 49; Crewe Alexandra: 48; Hereford United: 48; Rochdale: 26 and Altrincham: 25. If the Robins had received just one additional vote and tied with the Spotland club, a second ballot featuring only those two candidates would have ensued, in which the eligible electors were then obliged to cast a single vote for the club of their choice. In the two preceding instances when it had proved necessary to hold a second round of voting, the Non League club had, indeed, prevailed on each occasion and, hence, had secured admission into the Football League (Hereford United defeating Barrow in 1972 and Wigan Athletic overcoming Southport in 1978).
Alty‘s initial emotions of intense heartache and sheer disbelief at this cruel news that they had failed to displace Rochdale by just two votes were subsequently exacerbated by disillusionment and the impression that they had been cheated, when it emerged that two clubs had actually omitted to vote and the absence of their ballot papers had not been detected until after the AGM had concluded.
The first of the culprits to be identified were Second Division Luton Town, whose delegation of representatives had been late in arriving for the meeting after ostensibly getting held up in London’s traffic. Their Chairman, Denis Mortimer, duly released a statement: “The traffic was bad and we were delayed. To be fair to everyone involved, I am not going to reveal who we would have voted for.”
Grimsby Town were later unmasked as being the second guilty party in this electoral chaos, when it was disclosed that the Chairman of the newly-promoted Third Division Champions, Dick Middleton, had contrived to sit in the main body of the hall in error, rather than proceed to his rightful place at the front amongst the voting members. Consequently, he was not handed his ballot paper.
The Manchester Evening News’ Non League Football correspondent, Doug Peacock, succeeded in buttonholing an unnamed Grimsby Town official as they scurried away from the AGM, who sheepishly divulged their account of the cause of this farcical confusion: “We understood that in previous years, representatives of newly-promoted clubs stayed among the non-voting-members of the Third and Fourth Divisions during the meeting. It was a misunderstanding.”
However, a radically different theory pertaining to the reason for the absence of four of this total of eight uncast votes was subsequently expounded by Graham Heathcote in Andy Mitten’s article on Altrincham FC in the November 2004 issue of Four Four Two magazine, when the Alty midfielder alleged that: “One bloke who promised to support us got pissed and fell asleep."
Just to add insult to injury, the Robins’ officials intimated that both of the clubs involved had previously indicated that they were in favour of electing Alty into the Fourth Division. A crestfallen Noel White remarked: “Two clubs did not vote and they were as near as you can get to being ones we could bank on. But they did not arrive and now we feel a little bit cheated. We are very, very disappointed because we went flat out for the league this time. We only asked to be judged on merit and I don’t think we have been.”
Meanwhile, a dejected Tony Sanders was unable to mask his justifiable indignation and frustration at the Robins’ rebuff by the closed shop of the Football League: “What happened at this annual meeting was not only a dreadful setback for Altrincham FC, it was a slap in the face for the whole APL. We could win the APL again next season but, unless the present system is changed, we might as well not bother turning up at the AGM. It’s like playing in the FA Cup Final and being told you may not get the trophy even if you win the match.“
Alty’s burgeoning sense of injustice at this narrow rejection of their case for membership of the Football League was compounded by subsequent revelations that Rochdale had, in fact, sold their Spotland ground for £175,000 two months ago (with the anonymous buyer leasing it back to them at a rental of £35,000 pa) and yet were now about to launch a public appeal in effort to raise £50,000 to be directed to paying off debts and funding the team for the following season. There were also reports that only six players had been named on the club’s retained list at the end of the 1979/80 season and, to date, three of these had already declined terms to remain at Spotland for another year.
On Tuesday, 24th June 1980, the whole sorry travesty of justice then plumbed new depths when Bob Stokoe resigned as the manager of Rochdale FC. A report published in the Daily Express on the following day carried a quote from Stokoe in which he confessed that he had made up his mind to quit his role prior to the end of the season but had deferred the public announcement of his decision until now for a specific and all-important motive: “I held back because I didn‘t want to hinder the club’s application for re-election.”
This gradual unveiling of the turmoil at Spotland elicited the following pointed observation from Noel White: “I’m surprised that the true state of affairs that seems to exist at Rochdale was not explored before the annual meeting.”
Stokoe’s rather ignoble and equivocal resignation even prompted a trenchant censure from the Chairman of the APL (and then Chairman of Maidstone United), Jim Thompson, whose personal statement about the controversial affair accused the former Spotland boss of “a deliberate move to deceive the clubs voting into believing that Rochdale FC was going to have his services for the coming season and, thus, affect their decision.” His scathing rebuke went on to pose the question as to whether such a misleading action was “tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and, if it is, whether any action is going to be taken against Mr Stokoe.”
In response, Bob Stokoe (in contradiction of a disclosure previously cited in the national press), denied these charges: “I have nothing to hide. Mr Thompson has been misinformed and I would willingly appear before any commission with a clear conscience.” The Football League did not take any subsequent action against either Rochdale FC or Bob Stokoe regarding this whole distasteful saga.
When the dust had finally settled, Tony Sanders turned his thoughts to the task ahead of him and issued the following resolute and passionate vow of intent: “Our aim, without doubt, is to surpass last season’s achievements and to knock on the door of the Football League so loud that notice has got to be taken.”
Indeed, the 1980/81 season would prove to be the most successful one in the history of Altrincham FC to date. But that’s another story and Alty still didnt get in.
At the risk of not seeing the blindingly obvious, but if 3rd and 4th division clubs had 6 votes between them, how did they decide amongst themselves who to vote for?
Apologies for adding another iteration of this massive post, but it's the only place I could find the point mentioned.
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Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 02:37 - Nov 10 with 3118 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 23:49 - Nov 9 by Morden
At the risk of not seeing the blindingly obvious, but if 3rd and 4th division clubs had 6 votes between them, how did they decide amongst themselves who to vote for?
Apologies for adding another iteration of this massive post, but it's the only place I could find the point mentioned.
Its blindingly obvious that the 6 votes allocated to the 3rd and 4th divisions would be cast to preserve the status quo on the basis you never know when your club might be in the re-election ballot.. I very much doubt that the 4th or 3rd divisions have ever cast a vote against a fellow football league club in favour of a non league applicant.
This is not the time for bickering.
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Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 06:33 - Nov 10 with 3083 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 23:05 - Nov 9 by D_Alien
Aye, and it puts to bed the stories I'd heard that Stokoe was instrumental in trying to drum up votes for the Dale - he just waited till after the vote before resigning.
In our defence, I think it's the only time we've ever finished rock bottom of the (modern) football league, and other teams have done so more often and survived. Every loser deserves another chance, and although it took a while, our history since then shows we haven't spurned that chance.
Yes, it's funny how your mind plays tricks on you over the years. I wasn't aware that Stokoe was so instrumental in us securing that vote, i knew of Fred's involvement.Thank you Bob Stokoe,RIP.
I could have also sworn the vote occurred at the start of the week rather than Friday so that was something else that my mind distorted over the passing years.
Having a bit of banter with Altyfan but his post was a cracking read, those were the darkest days.
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Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 06:49 - Nov 10 with 3067 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:43 - Nov 9 by WhiteyBFC
I think it's as obvious as the nose on Jimmy McNulty's face that being manager of Barnsley FC under the last ten years regime is a bloody difficult task. It all points to Cryne as being the problem as he's the one constant. Of course, you could point to the supporters but then you'd be daft.
I've just uploaded this if anybody is interested. I've listened back to it and I'm amazed at how jovial I am about things. I can now say I've seen my club at its very best, and very worst. When blokes in their eighties tell me it's as bad as they've known, with League Two still to come, then wow.
Close your eyes and you could be listening to Fred Dibnah. Cheers for that Whitey, see you at Wembley.
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Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 08:51 - Nov 10 with 2970 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 22:30 - Nov 9 by altyfan
I was only referring to what people said at the time, not what I thought. I dont have any issues at all with Grimsby, we have played them lots of times recently (not lost one game yet and they have a super following).
In fact I didnt even know about the story about that day until I read a recent account of exactly what happened in 1980, its a bit long but if you are interested in the Alty account its below;
WHEN WE WERE KINGS: ALTY IN THE APL 1979/80 PART 49: YEARS OF REFUSAL
On Wednesday, 7th May 1980, just four days after Alty had secured the inaugural Alliance Premier League (APL) title via their memorable 2-0 triumph at Gravesend & Northfleet, the Football League Management Committee visited Moss Lane in order to undertake an additional ground inspection which passed and, therefore, they were now authorised to proceed as the sole Non League club nominated for election to the Fourth Division at the League’s forthcoming AGM.
The Football League’s AGM was scheduled to be held at the Café Royal, Regent Street, Piccadilly, London on Friday, 6th June 1980, a date that the Robins’ Chairman, Noel White, had termed as Altrincham FC’s very own D-Day. The quartet of Fourth Division clubs who had finished the 1979/80 season in the designated relegation zone and, thus, were obliged to apply for re-election to the Football League comprised: Hereford United (21st position on 36 points); Darlington (22nd spot with 35 points); Crewe Alexandra (23rd place on 35 points) and Rochdale (24th position with a meagre total of 27 points).
Hereford United had only been voted into the Football League at the end of the 1971/72 season and were expected to receive ample backing for their re-election bid. Notwithstanding the fact that repeat offenders Darlington and Crewe Alexandra were both applying for re-election for the fifth time in the last 11 seasons, it was Rochdale whose Football League membership was overwhelmingly adjudged to be in severe jeopardy.
The impoverished Spotland club, who were reportedly losing £2,000 per week, were entreating for their re-election for the second time in three years and had just endured an ignominious campaign, which had concluded in them being anchored to the foot of the Fourth Division with the ensuing abject statistics: played: 46; won: seven; drawn: 13; lost: 26; goals scored: 33; goals conceded: 79 and points accumulated: 27 from a possible tally of 92. Indeed a sequence of fifteen league matches without a win, during which they had managed to score just a solitary goal in 1350 minutes (i.e. 22.5 hours) of playing time.
In addition, crowds at the decaying Spotland stadium were dwindling alarmingly and the home fixture versus SC**thorpe United on Friday, 18th April 1980 had attracted an attendance of merely 1,018 (a crowd of 2,653 congregated inside Moss Lane on the following day for the visit of AP Leamington). The apathy afflicting Rochdale’s supporters could be gauged by the revelation that a recent fundraising dinner with Jack Charlton and Lawrie McMenemy as the guest speakers had been cancelled after a total of only 23 tickets had been sold.
Tainted by this catalogue of debacles and decline, Rochdale adopted a re-election strategy that consisted of resorting to attempts to evoke sentiment and sympathy in a campaign centred around their Club President and former Chairman, Fred Ratcliffe. “Mister Rochdale” was hoping to exploit his personal standing and the Boardroom links and friendships with other club Chairmen that he had forged over many seasons in a bid to influence voters and invoke the power of the ‘Old Pals’ Act‘ to preserve his club‘s tenure in the Football League.
Rochdale were also emphasising the continuing presence at the club of their current manager, Bob Stokoe, who had led Sunderland to that momentous 1-0 success against Leeds United at Wembley in the 1973 FA Cup Final and was well-respected in football circles. All this despite the fact that Stokoe had endeavoured to fine his players half a week’s wages after their mortifyingly inept performance in a 5-1 collapse at Tranmere Rovers and had recently depicted his onerous task at Spotland as being “a little bit like trying to raise the dead.”
In marked contrast, the progressive Robins could point to success both on and off the pitch. Their team had been crowned APL Champions; home attendances had increased to an average of just under 2,000; the club was financially sound, having made a record profit of £53,971 for the 1978/79 season, and further investment to the facilities at Moss Lane was planned in the shape of an estimated £100,000 face-lift, which included the extension and refurbishment of the dressing rooms and club offices; a brand new reception lounge for visitors and officials and the installation of new turnstiles as well as a gymnasium.
Since January 1980, Noel White and his fellow Director, Raymond Donn, had spent many hours on the road undertaking visits to Football League clubs and canvassing the votes of their respective Chairmen. In recent weeks, a ‘flying squad’ of Altrincham FC Directors had been touring the country on a mission to drum up support for the club’s nomination, chiefly amongst the First and Second Division clubs who would control the majority of the votes in the imminent ballot.
The Robins’ enterprising and sanguine Chairman averred: “This is the best chance and the strongest case that that we have ever had. The club is geared for Fourth Division football. The only thing that can defeat us is sympathy for the clubs who have finished in the bottom four again. On merit, we should get in.“
For the Robins’ third stab at gaining admission to the Football League, the club took a party of six officials down to the Café Royal although only two of them would be permitted to attend the actual AGM, which was scheduled to commence at 2.00pm. However, the prospect of a tension-filled few hours beckoned, as the re-election issue was to be the final item on the agenda.
The somewhat arcane re-election procedure read as follows. All of the 44 clubs comprising the First and Second Divisions were each granted a voting right. The remaining 48 Third and Fourth Division clubs had six voting rights between them and the President of the Football League (who, at that juncture, was the Newcastle United Chairman, Lord Westwood), also possessed one voting right. Each voting right entitled the holder to cast four votes i.e. to select four clubs from the five candidates seeking membership, namely Hereford United; Darlington; Crewe Alexandra; Rochdale and Altrincham. So, the sum of 51 voting rights equated to a total of 204 votes to be allocated.
The votes cast in the eventual Football League re-election poll for the 1979/80 season were as follows: Darlington: 49; Crewe Alexandra: 48; Hereford United: 48; Rochdale: 26 and Altrincham: 25. If the Robins had received just one additional vote and tied with the Spotland club, a second ballot featuring only those two candidates would have ensued, in which the eligible electors were then obliged to cast a single vote for the club of their choice. In the two preceding instances when it had proved necessary to hold a second round of voting, the Non League club had, indeed, prevailed on each occasion and, hence, had secured admission into the Football League (Hereford United defeating Barrow in 1972 and Wigan Athletic overcoming Southport in 1978).
Alty‘s initial emotions of intense heartache and sheer disbelief at this cruel news that they had failed to displace Rochdale by just two votes were subsequently exacerbated by disillusionment and the impression that they had been cheated, when it emerged that two clubs had actually omitted to vote and the absence of their ballot papers had not been detected until after the AGM had concluded.
The first of the culprits to be identified were Second Division Luton Town, whose delegation of representatives had been late in arriving for the meeting after ostensibly getting held up in London’s traffic. Their Chairman, Denis Mortimer, duly released a statement: “The traffic was bad and we were delayed. To be fair to everyone involved, I am not going to reveal who we would have voted for.”
Grimsby Town were later unmasked as being the second guilty party in this electoral chaos, when it was disclosed that the Chairman of the newly-promoted Third Division Champions, Dick Middleton, had contrived to sit in the main body of the hall in error, rather than proceed to his rightful place at the front amongst the voting members. Consequently, he was not handed his ballot paper.
The Manchester Evening News’ Non League Football correspondent, Doug Peacock, succeeded in buttonholing an unnamed Grimsby Town official as they scurried away from the AGM, who sheepishly divulged their account of the cause of this farcical confusion: “We understood that in previous years, representatives of newly-promoted clubs stayed among the non-voting-members of the Third and Fourth Divisions during the meeting. It was a misunderstanding.”
However, a radically different theory pertaining to the reason for the absence of four of this total of eight uncast votes was subsequently expounded by Graham Heathcote in Andy Mitten’s article on Altrincham FC in the November 2004 issue of Four Four Two magazine, when the Alty midfielder alleged that: “One bloke who promised to support us got pissed and fell asleep."
Just to add insult to injury, the Robins’ officials intimated that both of the clubs involved had previously indicated that they were in favour of electing Alty into the Fourth Division. A crestfallen Noel White remarked: “Two clubs did not vote and they were as near as you can get to being ones we could bank on. But they did not arrive and now we feel a little bit cheated. We are very, very disappointed because we went flat out for the league this time. We only asked to be judged on merit and I don’t think we have been.”
Meanwhile, a dejected Tony Sanders was unable to mask his justifiable indignation and frustration at the Robins’ rebuff by the closed shop of the Football League: “What happened at this annual meeting was not only a dreadful setback for Altrincham FC, it was a slap in the face for the whole APL. We could win the APL again next season but, unless the present system is changed, we might as well not bother turning up at the AGM. It’s like playing in the FA Cup Final and being told you may not get the trophy even if you win the match.“
Alty’s burgeoning sense of injustice at this narrow rejection of their case for membership of the Football League was compounded by subsequent revelations that Rochdale had, in fact, sold their Spotland ground for £175,000 two months ago (with the anonymous buyer leasing it back to them at a rental of £35,000 pa) and yet were now about to launch a public appeal in effort to raise £50,000 to be directed to paying off debts and funding the team for the following season. There were also reports that only six players had been named on the club’s retained list at the end of the 1979/80 season and, to date, three of these had already declined terms to remain at Spotland for another year.
On Tuesday, 24th June 1980, the whole sorry travesty of justice then plumbed new depths when Bob Stokoe resigned as the manager of Rochdale FC. A report published in the Daily Express on the following day carried a quote from Stokoe in which he confessed that he had made up his mind to quit his role prior to the end of the season but had deferred the public announcement of his decision until now for a specific and all-important motive: “I held back because I didn‘t want to hinder the club’s application for re-election.”
This gradual unveiling of the turmoil at Spotland elicited the following pointed observation from Noel White: “I’m surprised that the true state of affairs that seems to exist at Rochdale was not explored before the annual meeting.”
Stokoe’s rather ignoble and equivocal resignation even prompted a trenchant censure from the Chairman of the APL (and then Chairman of Maidstone United), Jim Thompson, whose personal statement about the controversial affair accused the former Spotland boss of “a deliberate move to deceive the clubs voting into believing that Rochdale FC was going to have his services for the coming season and, thus, affect their decision.” His scathing rebuke went on to pose the question as to whether such a misleading action was “tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and, if it is, whether any action is going to be taken against Mr Stokoe.”
In response, Bob Stokoe (in contradiction of a disclosure previously cited in the national press), denied these charges: “I have nothing to hide. Mr Thompson has been misinformed and I would willingly appear before any commission with a clear conscience.” The Football League did not take any subsequent action against either Rochdale FC or Bob Stokoe regarding this whole distasteful saga.
When the dust had finally settled, Tony Sanders turned his thoughts to the task ahead of him and issued the following resolute and passionate vow of intent: “Our aim, without doubt, is to surpass last season’s achievements and to knock on the door of the Football League so loud that notice has got to be taken.”
Indeed, the 1980/81 season would prove to be the most successful one in the history of Altrincham FC to date. But that’s another story and Alty still didnt get in.
Very interesting.
Whilst I don't doubt the version of events, I still dislike the tremendous spin in the article which depicts Alty as the shiny new role model, and Dale as the decrepit old has been.
35 years on, I'd suggest a role reversal has emerged.
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 08:51 - Nov 10 by R17ALE
Very interesting.
Whilst I don't doubt the version of events, I still dislike the tremendous spin in the article which depicts Alty as the shiny new role model, and Dale as the decrepit old has been.
35 years on, I'd suggest a role reversal has emerged.
How true. Having done away with the old re-election system Alty so despised, they've still not got into the league on merit. Would they have happily accepted a league place under the old system they decried so much? You bet they would. In seasons 2005—06 , 2006—07 and 2007—08 they were in relegation places in the Conference and only stayed in there because they were reprieved due to other clubs being knackered financially or otherwise. We're in League 1 now because we're good enough. Alty are still non-league because....they aren't. Maybe that vote in 1980 came to the correct decision after all?
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Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 12:24 - Nov 10 with 2771 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 10:45 - Nov 10 by Sandyman
How true. Having done away with the old re-election system Alty so despised, they've still not got into the league on merit. Would they have happily accepted a league place under the old system they decried so much? You bet they would. In seasons 2005—06 , 2006—07 and 2007—08 they were in relegation places in the Conference and only stayed in there because they were reprieved due to other clubs being knackered financially or otherwise. We're in League 1 now because we're good enough. Alty are still non-league because....they aren't. Maybe that vote in 1980 came to the correct decision after all?
I don't know, given the length of time that has elapsed, that anyone could put a proper counterfactual on what would have happened to either club if Alty had been admitted and Dale kicked out. After all, Dale's current renaissance took a long time after 1980 to get going.
However, a few things do seem obvious:
1. that electoral system was a joke, affording the overwhelming majority of votes to clubs who it wouldn't materially affect 2. Given that electoral system, unless Grimsby and Luton were in the top two divisions, they wouldn't have had more than a small stake in 6 voting rights anyway so surely wouldn't have made that much difference 3. Given the way re-election worked, if Altrincham was just outside London rather than just outside Manchester you'd have lost (it systematically purged northern clubs over time) 4. Why weren't Altrincham reps sat outside the meeting making sure the Grimsby guy went inside?
I feel for Altrincham, who finished second in the conf a couple of times I seem to recall after automatic promotion was first introduced, but it has been in place for nearly two decades now. Fascinating story though.
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Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 12:37 - Nov 10 with 2736 views
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 12:24 - Nov 10 by BarryStrange
I don't know, given the length of time that has elapsed, that anyone could put a proper counterfactual on what would have happened to either club if Alty had been admitted and Dale kicked out. After all, Dale's current renaissance took a long time after 1980 to get going.
However, a few things do seem obvious:
1. that electoral system was a joke, affording the overwhelming majority of votes to clubs who it wouldn't materially affect 2. Given that electoral system, unless Grimsby and Luton were in the top two divisions, they wouldn't have had more than a small stake in 6 voting rights anyway so surely wouldn't have made that much difference 3. Given the way re-election worked, if Altrincham was just outside London rather than just outside Manchester you'd have lost (it systematically purged northern clubs over time) 4. Why weren't Altrincham reps sat outside the meeting making sure the Grimsby guy went inside?
I feel for Altrincham, who finished second in the conf a couple of times I seem to recall after automatic promotion was first introduced, but it has been in place for nearly two decades now. Fascinating story though.
Understand what you're saying, but our history shows we deserved to stay in the FL. Yes, it took a while to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but just a few months on from that vote the Dale were hosting Bury in the FA Cup in front of 10000+
It's difficult to envisage Alty ever having that type of potential. Of the teams who've made it into the football league under the auto promotion system, every single one of them finished last season below Rochdale in the football pyramid! *
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 12:37 - Nov 10 by D_Alien
Understand what you're saying, but our history shows we deserved to stay in the FL. Yes, it took a while to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps, but just a few months on from that vote the Dale were hosting Bury in the FA Cup in front of 10000+
It's difficult to envisage Alty ever having that type of potential. Of the teams who've made it into the football league under the auto promotion system, every single one of them finished last season below Rochdale in the football pyramid! *
* with the exception of MK Dons who don't count
[Post edited 10 Nov 2015 12:40]
The vote was after the bury FA Cup tie, which was played in January 1980.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
1
Barnsley dumped out by Altrincham on 13:42 - Nov 10 with 2654 views
The stuff regarding the Grimsby and Luton chairmen, is hearsay as to whether they were going to vote for Altricham. Maybe they will have done, but there is no proof, to my knowledge that they would not have voted for us. Just because Alrincham people said they had been told stuff, does not make it fact.
Anyway we were very lucky that day, and there is in my opinion no way we would have survived if we had lost our league status. But we did survive, and the rest as they say is history. Many thanks for the efforts of Bob Stokoe and Fred Radcliffe for all of the canvassing for votes along with the others involved.
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