| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart 14:28 - Feb 25 with 6174 views | STID2017 |
I copied this list of another thread and wondered how accurate it is, bearing in mind this method has been used to illustrate that Brad Bobbly was better for us than Russell Martin is , and that Michael Laudrup is a poor league manager than, well most, it would seem ?
Please note I have added numbers in reverse order and one anonymous manager's win rate :
League points per game:-
11 - Clement 1.11
10 - Laudrup 1.13
9 - Martin 1.22
8 - Guidolin 1.26
7 - Monk 1.31
6 - Potter 1.41
5 - Anonymous 1.45
4 - Sousa 1.50
3 - Rodgers 1.53
2 - Cooper 1.63
1 - Martinez 1.73
As I say it has been used as a fair way to compare success or otherwise of Martin, Bobbly and Laudrup based on League points achieved under their tenure.
So would appreciate posters thoughts on if it is to be considered an accurate and fair measure or not ? |  |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:08 - Feb 26 with 673 views | magicdaps10 |
Michael Laudrup won us our first major trophy, got us into the knock out stages of a European tournament and got us a top 10 finish in the Premier league....history will suggest that he was arguably the best Swansea Manager.
People won't look back at points to game as regularly as they would on achievements.
Rodgers will be seen as the manager who got us to the Premier league regardless of the hardwork done by previous managers most notably Roberto.
Points per game looks good on paper but it's more a personal thing for the manager rather than the club, no denying that Laudrup will go down in history more than any other manager on that list as bringing the most success to Swansea City. |  |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:17 - Feb 26 with 650 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:53 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
It logs when I pressed the button, not when I changed the word.
Keep up young man. |
Everyone knows the truth, just saying. |  | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:25 - Feb 26 with 635 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:17 - Feb 26 by Whiterockin |
Everyone knows the truth, just saying. |
He knows the truth, but will never admit it.
Too proud and conceited | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:33 - Feb 26 with 624 views | magicdaps10 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:50 - Feb 26 by OverDover |
You daring to make derogatory remarks about a fan of another club on a fan’s forum belonging to a different club is hilarious given your track record “Roath Magic”. How is your spectacular property development business doing in Australia?
You so feeble. |
Will see your Roath Magic and raise a "Parlay".
😠| |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:36 - Feb 26 with 623 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:25 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
He knows the truth, but will never admit it.
Too proud and conceited |
Pure coincidence that he posted it at 10.14 corrected it but didn't post it until after overdover at 10.35.
The Dr should never be questioned as he would never make a mistake. [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 19:41]
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:35 - Feb 26 with 590 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 12:06 - Feb 26 by onehunglow |
Our performance at that game against West Ham was our worst for many a long time ,more or less until Martin took over. Now ,take your choice, Fulham,Bmuff,Stoke ,Blades ..etc |
Yep, we were awful for a long time prior to West Ham.
As I said, less than a point per game from his last 35 matches.
That’s atrocious. |  |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:38 - Feb 26 with 584 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 17:53 - Feb 26 by felixstowe_jack |
We still beat Liverpool and Chelsea away on the way to the final. |
We did indeed, “two good rounds does not a great manager make”.
The likes of Paul Clement and Carvalhal beat teams such as Liverpool with terrible squads. To make out like it was some incredible feat is wide of the mark.
We had one of the best squads in the country at the time. The fact we only managed around a point a game to go along with it was a travesty. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:39 - Feb 26 with 582 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 19:33 - Feb 26 by magicdaps10 |
Will see your Roath Magic and raise a "Parlay".
😠|
Wonderful poster, thanks for reminding me. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:39 - Feb 26 with 581 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:35 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Yep, we were awful for a long time prior to West Ham.
As I said, less than a point per game from his last 35 matches.
That’s atrocious. |
So to reiterate a question I have asked you a few times then, does that mean the league points achieved can be used to rate a manager ?
You are doing that with Laudrup.
So is that how we judge others ? | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:52 - Feb 26 with 564 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:41 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Absolutely correct, glad you can see that.
Agree with the post too I assume? If not feel free to point out where?
Yep, thought so  |
Even you should realise when people are taking the P. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:55 - Feb 26 with 551 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:52 - Feb 26 by Whiterockin |
Even you should realise when people are taking the P. |
Well like I said, come forward and tell me which part you disagree with and why. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:58 - Feb 26 with 546 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:55 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Well like I said, come forward and tell me which part you disagree with and why. |
See my post at 19.36. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:00 - Feb 26 with 540 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:39 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
So to reiterate a question I have asked you a few times then, does that mean the league points achieved can be used to rate a manager ?
You are doing that with Laudrup.
So is that how we judge others ? |
To reiterate the same answer you have been given various times, league performance is a large part of judging a manager.
But just how large a part you would have to answer what it is you are trying to find out first. When you lay that out then I can tell you what else would be worth considering.
When it comes to Laudrup, if you are looking for something to see if if he is ''a great manager'' or not then yes, that would be fine. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:02 - Feb 26 with 533 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 20:58 - Feb 26 by Whiterockin |
See my post at 19.36. |
That isn't you disagreeing with my post.
That is you suggesting that a minor detail that was altered was done so after being alerted to it. It's inconsequential to the post and point made.
My question was what was it that you disagree with about my post, if there is nothing then I will assume you agree with me? [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 21:07]
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:09 - Feb 26 with 523 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:00 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
To reiterate the same answer you have been given various times, league performance is a large part of judging a manager.
But just how large a part you would have to answer what it is you are trying to find out first. When you lay that out then I can tell you what else would be worth considering.
When it comes to Laudrup, if you are looking for something to see if if he is ''a great manager'' or not then yes, that would be fine. |
So the rule can only be applied to Laudrup then, but no other ?
Hardly scientific that.
It has to apply to all or nobody | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:14 - Feb 26 with 514 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:09 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
So the rule can only be applied to Laudrup then, but no other ?
Hardly scientific that.
It has to apply to all or nobody |
What rule?
League performance being a large part of judging a manager is a rule for all. But just how large depends on what it is you are trying to find out.
Toshack for example had consistent trophy winning, 3 promotions and 3 Cups. Tangible and consistent achievements, so his overall points per game ratio would have less importance (but still important).
Laudrup was here for 18 months so there isn't too much else to consider league wise, there was no promotions, no European qualification via the league system. So with him (and most other managers we have had) a points per game ratio is perfectly acceptable. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:16 - Feb 26 with 512 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:14 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
What rule?
League performance being a large part of judging a manager is a rule for all. But just how large depends on what it is you are trying to find out.
Toshack for example had consistent trophy winning, 3 promotions and 3 Cups. Tangible and consistent achievements, so his overall points per game ratio would have less importance (but still important).
Laudrup was here for 18 months so there isn't too much else to consider league wise, there was no promotions, no European qualification via the league system. So with him (and most other managers we have had) a points per game ratio is perfectly acceptable. |
So was Sousa a better manager for Swans in your opinion based on his points per game record ? | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:20 - Feb 26 with 504 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:16 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
So was Sousa a better manager for Swans in your opinion based on his points per game record ? |
Better than who?
Now it's changing again you see, you have gone from stating if a manager is ''great'' or not, to stating if a manager is ''good'' to now comparing managers.
This is why I am asking you to tell me what it is you are trying to find out and I can give you an answer. Comparisons are very nuanced because some people may be in a different league and other such factors.
But the above was used to show that Laudrup was not ''great'', seeing if it can prove other things at the same time seems irrelevant.
I take you back to being asked to prove if someone murdered a person, after doing so - rejecting the evidence because it didn't prove he stole something in 1993.
Apples and bananas. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:23 - Feb 26 with 503 views | Gwyn737 |
Obviously points per game is a good broad brush way to measure a managers success but as a fan it’s so much more than that.
You’ve got include league played in and playing squad for a start.
Laudrup was accused of not getting up for the big games but he did get us to a final beating two massive teams and had Michu in the team who I loved watching playing.
Of that list, he’s not top but I enjoyed Rodgers reign the most. I’m sure that was partly due to the squad.
I didn’t enjoy Coopers reign but in fairness there weren’t many players whom floated my boat.
In some ways that’s the same for me with Martin. I want him to do well but there aren’t players I’m excited to watch. |  | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:28 - Feb 26 with 500 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:23 - Feb 26 by Gwyn737 |
Obviously points per game is a good broad brush way to measure a managers success but as a fan it’s so much more than that.
You’ve got include league played in and playing squad for a start.
Laudrup was accused of not getting up for the big games but he did get us to a final beating two massive teams and had Michu in the team who I loved watching playing.
Of that list, he’s not top but I enjoyed Rodgers reign the most. I’m sure that was partly due to the squad.
I didn’t enjoy Coopers reign but in fairness there weren’t many players whom floated my boat.
In some ways that’s the same for me with Martin. I want him to do well but there aren’t players I’m excited to watch. |
Correct, but then that's another discussion altogether.
Favorite manager and fondest memories or best manager. They are very different things.
If someone said their favorite Manager or their favorite team was under Laudrup then there would be no issue, I can see why that would be the case. Michu, Bony and Hernandez in the same team was wonderful.
If someone says Laudrup is a great manager, that is when the issues of accuracy arise and is a completely different discussion.
Because we was not, is not and probably never will be anything remotely like as described. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:28 - Feb 26 with 499 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:20 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Better than who?
Now it's changing again you see, you have gone from stating if a manager is ''great'' or not, to stating if a manager is ''good'' to now comparing managers.
This is why I am asking you to tell me what it is you are trying to find out and I can give you an answer. Comparisons are very nuanced because some people may be in a different league and other such factors.
But the above was used to show that Laudrup was not ''great'', seeing if it can prove other things at the same time seems irrelevant.
I take you back to being asked to prove if someone murdered a person, after doing so - rejecting the evidence because it didn't prove he stole something in 1993.
Apples and bananas. |
Better than Laudrup
You knew that
Well ? | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:36 - Feb 26 with 489 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:28 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
Better than Laudrup
You knew that
Well ? |
I didn't know that.
I have asked you what must be a dozen times now what it is you are trying to find out, you keep changing it.
Sousa is a better manager than Laudrup yes, that is an easy one.
Comparing them for Swansea specifically isn't really possible because they managed in different leagues with squads not remotely similar to one another.
But if I were trying to pick a manager next week...
I would look at Sousas record, look at Laudrups record, their league performances would be taken into consideration individually amongst that, as well as some other factors - and I would be picking up the phone and asking if I could speak to Paulo please. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:37 - Feb 26 with 489 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:23 - Feb 26 by Gwyn737 |
Obviously points per game is a good broad brush way to measure a managers success but as a fan it’s so much more than that.
You’ve got include league played in and playing squad for a start.
Laudrup was accused of not getting up for the big games but he did get us to a final beating two massive teams and had Michu in the team who I loved watching playing.
Of that list, he’s not top but I enjoyed Rodgers reign the most. I’m sure that was partly due to the squad.
I didn’t enjoy Coopers reign but in fairness there weren’t many players whom floated my boat.
In some ways that’s the same for me with Martin. I want him to do well but there aren’t players I’m excited to watch. |
Thanks I respect your view and you are right.
There are so many factors to take into account and it is all subjective
For example it could be suggested that Hollins was a better manager than Harry Griffiths as he won us promotion and a Championship.
However i found his football so boring that i will always pick Griffiths as the better manager.
Cooper was successful in that he took us to the play offs twice, but again I preferred Potter's footballing approach
Laudrup gave us many exciting moments and galvanised the Swansealona style which the fans loved.
Sadly he lost his way, but it was brilliant while it lasted | |
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