| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart 14:28 - Feb 25 with 6176 views | STID2017 |
I copied this list of another thread and wondered how accurate it is, bearing in mind this method has been used to illustrate that Brad Bobbly was better for us than Russell Martin is , and that Michael Laudrup is a poor league manager than, well most, it would seem ?
Please note I have added numbers in reverse order and one anonymous manager's win rate :
League points per game:-
11 - Clement 1.11
10 - Laudrup 1.13
9 - Martin 1.22
8 - Guidolin 1.26
7 - Monk 1.31
6 - Potter 1.41
5 - Anonymous 1.45
4 - Sousa 1.50
3 - Rodgers 1.53
2 - Cooper 1.63
1 - Martinez 1.73
As I say it has been used as a fair way to compare success or otherwise of Martin, Bobbly and Laudrup based on League points achieved under their tenure.
So would appreciate posters thoughts on if it is to be considered an accurate and fair measure or not ? |  |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 23:26 - Feb 25 with 915 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 21:03 - Feb 25 by Whiterockin |
So are we talking about who was a good/great manager for us or who went on to have a career after us. Because TBH I don’t care how successful they are after they leave us, only what they do for us. |
Don’t know, the OP hasn’t clarified, that’s what I was trying to ask.
It started off as who is “great”. Then I showed evidence to why he wasn’t, it then changed to “who is good”, and it may well have changed to who was “good for us”. Who knows.
So you will have to ask him, I’ve asked about 10 times and can’t get any joy.
But as I said Sousa was good for us AND when he left, he moved us on in the league, left us in a higher position than when he took over. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 23:28]
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 00:00 - Feb 26 with 890 views | STID2017 |
To clarify to anyone else who has a genuine interest in this, rather than just arguing for the sake of it, I am trying to find out if when people look at this list of figures ( all bar one provided by Dr Parnassus) , whether using the data provided is a fair measure of these managers positions in the list of achievements.
The reason I ask is this kind of information has been used before to show that ( in different posters opinions) certain managers are better or worse, successful or unsuccessful, a great manager or not a great manager whilst at our club
Hope we can have a sensible consensus on this [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 0:08]
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 00:07 - Feb 26 with 885 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 23:26 - Feb 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Don’t know, the OP hasn’t clarified, that’s what I was trying to ask.
It started off as who is “great”. Then I showed evidence to why he wasn’t, it then changed to “who is good”, and it may well have changed to who was “good for us”. Who knows.
So you will have to ask him, I’ve asked about 10 times and can’t get any joy.
But as I said Sousa was good for us AND when he left, he moved us on in the league, left us in a higher position than when he took over. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 23:28]
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Seems you are being obtuse again as it should be obvious I am talking about their time at Swansea City.
These figures have nothing to do with anything the managers did before or since, just their time with Swans
As for the reason you have asked with no reply, it is because I have a life and priorities away from this forum, so am not always around to feed your desire to keep asking your own questions rather than answer a simple question ? [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 0:27]
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 05:22 - Feb 26 with 858 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 00:07 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
Seems you are being obtuse again as it should be obvious I am talking about their time at Swansea City.
These figures have nothing to do with anything the managers did before or since, just their time with Swans
As for the reason you have asked with no reply, it is because I have a life and priorities away from this forum, so am not always around to feed your desire to keep asking your own questions rather than answer a simple question ? [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 0:27]
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Why is it obvious if you state otherwise?
You said “Laudrup is a great manager”, which of course isn’t true in either instance.
You have been answered numerous times but due to your refusal to answer any or indeed move away from this vague nonsense, this thread and discussion is going nowhere.
You initially were discussing Laudrup being a great manager, this evidence was brought forward to show he is nothing of the sort.
You got annoyed so have now created a new thread, used the same evidence without any context to why it was presented and moved the goalposts. It’s very dishonest of you.
It’s also dishonest to make up that I used said table to suggest Bradley is better than Martin. That’s false. They were in different leagues so you would have to take other things into consideration if making a comparison, so it depends what you are trying to find out in order for people to state how much this information would shape their decision making and what scenarios they would need to consider other factors.
But in terms of Laudrup being great, this information is enough.
So you decide what you want the discussion to be about, then people can give you an answer. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 06:40 - Feb 26 with 854 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 05:22 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why is it obvious if you state otherwise?
You said “Laudrup is a great manager”, which of course isn’t true in either instance.
You have been answered numerous times but due to your refusal to answer any or indeed move away from this vague nonsense, this thread and discussion is going nowhere.
You initially were discussing Laudrup being a great manager, this evidence was brought forward to show he is nothing of the sort.
You got annoyed so have now created a new thread, used the same evidence without any context to why it was presented and moved the goalposts. It’s very dishonest of you.
It’s also dishonest to make up that I used said table to suggest Bradley is better than Martin. That’s false. They were in different leagues so you would have to take other things into consideration if making a comparison, so it depends what you are trying to find out in order for people to state how much this information would shape their decision making and what scenarios they would need to consider other factors.
But in terms of Laudrup being great, this information is enough.
So you decide what you want the discussion to be about, then people can give you an answer. |
It is clear from the above post what,the discussion is about.
I f you cannot read plain English and give a straight answer to a straight answer, then please do not answer | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 07:23 - Feb 26 with 847 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 06:40 - Feb 26 by STID2017 |
It is clear from the above post what,the discussion is about.
I f you cannot read plain English and give a straight answer to a straight answer, then please do not answer |
It’s not clear at all, you refuse to answer any questions surrounding this boring rubbish.
Accept he is among our worst performing managers in the league in recent history and move on, you are doing yourself no favours by carrying this nonsense over multiple threads.
You won’t win, you are wasting your time.
Laudrup is not a great manager, his career shows that and so does his record for us. Either way you look at it, he isn’t a great manager.
Fin. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 09:10 - Feb 26 with 819 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 23:26 - Feb 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Don’t know, the OP hasn’t clarified, that’s what I was trying to ask.
It started off as who is “great”. Then I showed evidence to why he wasn’t, it then changed to “who is good”, and it may well have changed to who was “good for us”. Who knows.
So you will have to ask him, I’ve asked about 10 times and can’t get any joy.
But as I said Sousa was good for us AND when he left, he moved us on in the league, left us in a higher position than when he took over. [Post edited 25 Feb 2022 23:28]
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This is an old thread but throws up some interesting opinions.
Rate your Swansea managers... by Starsky 31 Oct 2014 12:08Your mission...
Rate them from 1 to 10.
What you must take into consideration:
1: they must be rated as what impact they've had with our club, astute signings etc... NOT who you like the best.
2: you can take their Swans playing days into your decision as well as their managerial efforts.
Garry Monk
Michael Laudrup
Brendan Rodgers
Paulo Sousa
Roberto Martinez
Kenny Jackett
Brian Flynn
John Toshack
Harry Griffiths
Frankie Burrows
Off you go.
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 09:45 - Feb 26 with 799 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 09:10 - Feb 26 by Whiterockin |
This is an old thread but throws up some interesting opinions.
Rate your Swansea managers... by Starsky 31 Oct 2014 12:08Your mission...
Rate them from 1 to 10.
What you must take into consideration:
1: they must be rated as what impact they've had with our club, astute signings etc... NOT who you like the best.
2: you can take their Swans playing days into your decision as well as their managerial efforts.
Garry Monk
Michael Laudrup
Brendan Rodgers
Paulo Sousa
Roberto Martinez
Kenny Jackett
Brian Flynn
John Toshack
Harry Griffiths
Frankie Burrows
Off you go.
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He will always be remembered fondly by many because of the trophy win.
Hence my point regarding him being vastly overrated.
But again, it doesn’t make him a good, and certainly not “great”, manager. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 09:53 - Feb 26 with 789 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 09:45 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
He will always be remembered fondly by many because of the trophy win.
Hence my point regarding him being vastly overrated.
But again, it doesn’t make him a good, and certainly not “great”, manager. |
Agreed in principle as greatness needs to be proved over longevity, Toshack and Rodgers, but I still think he was great for what he achieved for us. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:14 - Feb 26 with 765 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 09:53 - Feb 26 by Whiterockin |
Agreed in principle as greatness needs to be proved over longevity, Toshack and Rodgers, but I still think he was great for what he achieved for us. |
But again that means it was a good achievement by a manager as opposed to an achievement by a great manager.
I take it back to scoring a great goal doesn’t mean you are a great goalscorer. The Cup victory was only really 2 testing rounds.
Round 2: Barnsley
Round 3: Crawley Town
Round 4: Liverpool
Quarter: Middlesbrough
Semi: Chelsea
Final: Bradford
Winning the above bunch of matches over the course of a period of time where we performed so poorly in the league doesn’t make someone a good manager. It means we had a good cup run.
Malky got Cardiff to the Final of the same tournament the year before as a Championship club and lost it on penalties. Had they won the shootout instead of losing it, it wouldn’t make Dave Jones any better or worse of a manager.
He may be remembered more fondly by some though, but that’s a different debate, the lines appear to be getting blurred between being memorable and being great. [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 10:35]
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:16 - Feb 26 with 759 views | Whiterockin |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:14 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
But again that means it was a good achievement by a manager as opposed to an achievement by a great manager.
I take it back to scoring a great goal doesn’t mean you are a great goalscorer. The Cup victory was only really 2 testing rounds.
Round 2: Barnsley
Round 3: Crawley Town
Round 4: Liverpool
Quarter: Middlesbrough
Semi: Chelsea
Final: Bradford
Winning the above bunch of matches over the course of a period of time where we performed so poorly in the league doesn’t make someone a good manager. It means we had a good cup run.
Malky got Cardiff to the Final of the same tournament the year before as a Championship club and lost it on penalties. Had they won the shootout instead of losing it, it wouldn’t make Dave Jones any better or worse of a manager.
He may be remembered more fondly by some though, but that’s a different debate, the lines appear to be getting blurred between being memorable and being great. [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 10:35]
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I think quite often a team would have a run like that to win the league cup, but I take your point. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:30 - Feb 26 with 734 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:16 - Feb 26 by Whiterockin |
I think quite often a team would have a run like that to win the league cup, but I take your point. |
Indeed, but considering our squad it was hardly an unthinkable feat, which boiled down to beating Liverpool and Chelsea really.
Excellent of course, but certainly not beyond the realms of imagination at the time.
We beat Liverpool the last time we played them under Carlos Carvalhal, we beat Arsenal under him too but nobody suggests he was great, because he wasn’t and it showed in our general league performances. Under Paul Clement we beat Liverpool and Leicester.
Them being league or cup games shouldn’t impact on a managers ability. It just reflects on how they are looked back on, but again that’s perception rather than ability. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:34 - Feb 26 with 733 views | OverDover |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:14 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
But again that means it was a good achievement by a manager as opposed to an achievement by a great manager.
I take it back to scoring a great goal doesn’t mean you are a great goalscorer. The Cup victory was only really 2 testing rounds.
Round 2: Barnsley
Round 3: Crawley Town
Round 4: Liverpool
Quarter: Middlesbrough
Semi: Chelsea
Final: Bradford
Winning the above bunch of matches over the course of a period of time where we performed so poorly in the league doesn’t make someone a good manager. It means we had a good cup run.
Malky got Cardiff to the Final of the same tournament the year before as a Championship club and lost it on penalties. Had they won the shootout instead of losing it, it wouldn’t make Dave Jones any better or worse of a manager.
He may be remembered more fondly by some though, but that’s a different debate, the lines appear to be getting blurred between being memorable and being great. [Post edited 26 Feb 2022 10:35]
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Once more the superficial nature of your football knowledge is exposed.
Dave Jones was not the manager of Cardiff City when the got to the final of the League Cup.
It was Malky Mackay.
Dave Jones was the manager of the Cardiff City side that made the FA cup final in 2008.
Please don’t edit your original post to correct your error it makes you look feeble. |  | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:39 - Feb 26 with 718 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:34 - Feb 26 by OverDover |
Once more the superficial nature of your football knowledge is exposed.
Dave Jones was not the manager of Cardiff City when the got to the final of the League Cup.
It was Malky Mackay.
Dave Jones was the manager of the Cardiff City side that made the FA cup final in 2008.
Please don’t edit your original post to correct your error it makes you look feeble. |
I corrected to Malky after looking it up, as you can tell, I didn’t bother to watch Wales #2 side.
But nice to see you back “under cover” anyway, I was beginning to get worried about you 
I’m sure you weren’t this up tight on Annis’ site. Or were you?  | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:43 - Feb 26 with 714 views | OverDover |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:39 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
I corrected to Malky after looking it up, as you can tell, I didn’t bother to watch Wales #2 side.
But nice to see you back “under cover” anyway, I was beginning to get worried about you
I’m sure you weren’t this up tight on Annis’ site. Or were you? |
I’m extremely relaxed thank you. I enjoy correcting your errors.
I’m intrigued by deceitful and duplicitous behaviour. What ever motivated you to edit your mistake about Hartson and Bellamy playing for Norwich? Why didn’t you just admit you were wrong?
Duplicitous behaviour indicated deep insecurity and a need to be right rather than honest.
Looking forward to watching my team live today. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:47 - Feb 26 with 707 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:43 - Feb 26 by OverDover |
I’m extremely relaxed thank you. I enjoy correcting your errors.
I’m intrigued by deceitful and duplicitous behaviour. What ever motivated you to edit your mistake about Hartson and Bellamy playing for Norwich? Why didn’t you just admit you were wrong?
Duplicitous behaviour indicated deep insecurity and a need to be right rather than honest.
Looking forward to watching my team live today. |
You didn’t correct it, you tried to in vain - the minor detail was already being corrected.
No duplicitous or deceitful behaviour here young man, I would suggest that would be a Cardiff fan undercover on a Swansea site obsessing over a bloke on the internet
I’ve missed you. Post more often please, you amuse me  | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:50 - Feb 26 with 705 views | OverDover |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:47 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
You didn’t correct it, you tried to in vain - the minor detail was already being corrected.
No duplicitous or deceitful behaviour here young man, I would suggest that would be a Cardiff fan undercover on a Swansea site obsessing over a bloke on the internet
I’ve missed you. Post more often please, you amuse me |
You daring to make derogatory remarks about a fan of another club on a fan’s forum belonging to a different club is hilarious given your track record “Roath Magic”. How is your spectacular property development business doing in Australia?
You so feeble. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:51 - Feb 26 with 698 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:50 - Feb 26 by OverDover |
You daring to make derogatory remarks about a fan of another club on a fan’s forum belonging to a different club is hilarious given your track record “Roath Magic”. How is your spectacular property development business doing in Australia?
You so feeble. |
What did you find derogatory about that?
About as well as your banking habits?
What you reckon the score will be later young man? Think you have a chance? | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:52 - Feb 26 with 700 views | OverDover |
You corrected the Dave Jones error after my post. The time frame illustrates that. | | | |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:53 - Feb 26 with 695 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 10:52 - Feb 26 by OverDover |
You corrected the Dave Jones error after my post. The time frame illustrates that. |
It logs when I pressed the button, not when I changed the word.
Keep up young man. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 11:46 - Feb 26 with 684 views | onehunglow |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 07:23 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
It’s not clear at all, you refuse to answer any questions surrounding this boring rubbish.
Accept he is among our worst performing managers in the league in recent history and move on, you are doing yourself no favours by carrying this nonsense over multiple threads.
You won’t win, you are wasting your time.
Laudrup is not a great manager, his career shows that and so does his record for us. Either way you look at it, he isn’t a great manager.
Fin. |
Laudrup saw some great results for us then lost interest
He has done nowt of not ever since
Great player | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 11:55 - Feb 26 with 675 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 11:46 - Feb 26 by onehunglow |
Laudrup saw some great results for us then lost interest
He has done nowt of not ever since
Great player |
Agreed, first 6 months was excellent, the following 12 or whatever it was - quite the opposite.
He is not a natural manager, you can see that a mile off and the noises coming out around that time showed exactly that.
The fact he says it bores him is another red flag.
He was a great player that went into management who had a ruthless agent who sourced excellent players that he largely failed to get the best out of. His long term league performance tells you all you need to know. | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 12:06 - Feb 26 with 673 views | onehunglow |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 11:55 - Feb 26 by Dr_Parnassus |
Agreed, first 6 months was excellent, the following 12 or whatever it was - quite the opposite.
He is not a natural manager, you can see that a mile off and the noises coming out around that time showed exactly that.
The fact he says it bores him is another red flag.
He was a great player that went into management who had a ruthless agent who sourced excellent players that he largely failed to get the best out of. His long term league performance tells you all you need to know. |
Our performance at that game against West Ham was our worst for many a long time ,more or less until Martin took over. Now ,take your choice, Fulham,Bmuff,Stoke ,Blades ..etc | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 16:30 - Feb 26 with 635 views | STID2017 |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 12:06 - Feb 26 by onehunglow |
Our performance at that game against West Ham was our worst for many a long time ,more or less until Martin took over. Now ,take your choice, Fulham,Bmuff,Stoke ,Blades ..etc |
The West Ham game was a very poor performance agreed .
However I think you are wiping out some awful performances such as the Southampton performance which saw us relegated, the Stoke game the Sunday after, the non entity of a Play Off Final against Brentford ( when we didn't bother to turn up .
There were probably many more under Monk, Clement, Carvarhal, not forgetting Pooter and Cooper.
The performances against Hull, Stoke and Sheffield United recently have been shocking, don't think anyone would argue with that | |
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| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 17:53 - Feb 26 with 603 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Points Per Game Manager Comparison Chart on 15:28 - Feb 25 by Dr_Parnassus |
Anything long term such as playoffs and promotions then yes absolutely as I just touched upon.
Trophies won, less so.
The league cup for example is 6 rounds, 4 of ours were against lower league opposition. Consistent trophy winning then yes, a one off - not so much. That would go under a great achievement by a manager category rather than proof of a great manager.
So it’s nuanced depending on what it is you are trying to work out.
STID doesn’t seem to forthcoming with what it is he’s trying to figure out so it’s impossible to say at this stage until he makes his mind up. |
We still beat Liverpool and Chelsea away on the way to the final. | |
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