On Saturday our full backs got torn to shreds, the problem is unless we protect them then its going to happen week in week out.

Danny Fox has come in for a lot of criticism over the past few weeks, at Arsenal again he came under scrutiny, however Nathan Clyne on the other side was also found wanting which perhaps highlights that the heart of the problem is not the players in the position, but the players in front of them.

A good full back always has a good understanding with the player playing wide in midfield in front of him, think of how Wayne Bridge blossomed, he did so because he formed a partnership with Chris Marsden where both players complimented each other, when Bridge attacked down the line, Marsden covered for him, our two fullbacks have had no chance to form that sort of partnership this season, they are never sure of whom will be in front of them and more to the point they have usually been left exposed as the player who is there isnt suited to playing the way you need to in the premier.

In this division its about pace down the line, its a league for athletes, i have said for many years that if Le Tiss was coming through now he would never get past the academy, clubs want players who can motor for 90 minutes and get up and down the pitch, this is especially true of our new 4-5-1 formation, this relies on having a man on each flank who can not only attack and effectively convert if to 4-5-3 when going forward, but can also get back and make sure the full backs arent exposed.

Our wide men though are not blessed with that pace, Adam Lallana as great as he is and I love the man to bits as a player is essentially an attacker, on this site on Sunday someone pointed out that Fox was appaling and then mentioned that Lallana never got involved in the game, whether they could see the connection with the two comments Im not sure, but essentially when you go to a place like Arsenal, how can you hope to have your full back have a great game when the man in front of him isnt helping him out, I dont blame Lallana any more than I would blame Lambert if he had to go in goal and let in a few soft ones, just because they all play outfield it doesnt mean that our players are comfortable in any position.

The fact is when we started playing 4-5-1 we didnt have the personel to do so, playing Lallna in a middle three is great he is suited to that role, but then we had to play Rodriguez, a striker wide left, on the right we just have no one, Guly is again essentially an attacker and Puncheon too inconsistent, ask yourself this question, could you play Rodrigues, Guly, Puncheon or Lallana as full backs, the answer is not in a million years and that perhaps tells you why they are unsuited to the type of role we are asking them to play.

The only hope if we are to continue with this system is that Ramirez will shore up one side, but that still leaves a problem on the other, some have suggested Manyuka might be the answer because he definately has pace, but nothing I have read on his biography on the official site suggests he has played there.

The easy thing is to blame the full backs, Fox especially seems to be the whipping boy of many, however thats unfair on both of them, they are being exposed time and time again and find themselves caught in the situation where they have two men bearing down on them and their midfield cover nowhere to be seen, so some of this critisism is unfair, we could have Ashley Cole at left back at present and he would be torn to shreds and i havent even covered the need for strong central defenders in this formation.

The next two games are essential to Saints season, not just for getting points, but for changing a losing mentality into if not exactly a winning one, but a more confident one at that, the reason that Reading won the Championship last season and the reason that Norwich and Swansea stayed up is that they had systems and they had players suited to that system, at this momen in time it looks like we certainly dont have either.      

Photo: Action Images

stmichael added 10:17 - Sep 17 Funny how you didnt say that about Dan Harding who you hounded relentlessly!? Never once have you criticised FOX which I think is unbalanced at best. I honestly would prefer Ryan Dickson. At least he knows where to be in that positon which is a start. A few assists and a big transfer fee are keeping FOX in the side. He is there to DEFEND and he is not up to it.
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VeloSaint added 10:31 - Sep 17 Agree with you Nick. One point about Clyne on Saturday, he made an individual error for one of the last 2 goals but the issue for the 1st and 3rd goals was the Arsenal midfield running at the centre of our defence and sliding a pass in for the runner behind Clyne. Its very difficult for any full back in that position and in reality you should deal with the problem in the midfield area (I think both Ward Prowse and Davies were caught out for their first). Your comment about Ashley Cole is spot on. Part of the issue is how narrow our midfield is, Ward Prowse and Davies on Saturday barely drifted wide in support at all. I assume that's tactical but it puts a heavy onus on the wide players to get up and down. lets be honest Lallana has never done that so why do they assume he will now. That leaves gaping space in front of the full back that Arsenal exploited everytime. If Saturday was anything to go by I think we'll see Ramirez through the middle, I think he'd be wasted out wide, which doesn't really solve the problem. I do think we need to go with 2 defensive central midfielders to protect the back 4 but they need to be operating the width of the pitch.

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SingaporeSaint added 10:48 - Sep 17 True although they need a bit of coaching too. Clyne has lots of potential but his positioning needs work - he certainly gets too tight at times and can get turned by a clever player - his pace will get him out of trouble over 15 yards (e.g. Aguero) but not over 2 or 3 (5th goal was a perfect example on Sat). He also has been caught ball watching a couple of times (van persie first goal last week, he fell but RVP had pulled 5 yards off him). I think that Fox doesnt seem good enough at this level but he could improve with coaching as to when to get tighter and defend. As I stated in the Arsenal summary - a good defensive coach has turned around their defence and I think ours can improve with some work too. A leader at C Back (I dearly hope this is Yoshida) can help both of them. As per the shape.. Maybe it is the players or maybe the shape - but at times the wide players go missing and are not supporting the defenders - also we are not hitting the byline and in the first half not supporting Lambert either! Given the players we have and it may sound like splitting hairs but I'd go 4-4-1-1.. The one in the 'hole' there is Ramirez who can support and play around Lambert but also can sit in to midfield at times and get on the ball (I expect Ramirez will play there even if he isnt asked to). The wide players can and need to build a partnership with the fullback as they are used to from recent seasons. I'd play Lee wide right as we need some more thrust on that side.

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SaintNick added 11:02 - Sep 17 Mike, with Dan Harding it wasnt a problem in that we were a big team in league 1 we dominated sides harding was rarely exposed
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slynch added 12:10 - Sep 17 singaporeSaint has got it all right, i reckon. Just need to add: the players are too keen to help each other and rush to the ball like children in a playground and get all out of shape. They need confidence to stand their ground and let others do their job. The mid field plough into defence throwing themselves heroically in the line of fire and leaving a gaping hole by the penalty spot. Two forwards should stay up front, that pulls at least 3 defenders out of the attack and their mf looking over their shoulders. Yes, I second a defensive coach. I appoint singaporeSaint and me. A letter to NC Nick, please.

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Pecky3 added 12:15 - Sep 17 I am surprised no-one has mentioned Jack Cork who was ever present last season. Cork is getting back to fitness and surely has an important role to play. surely worth bringing back to improve the midfield!
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SaintNick added 12:47 - Sep 17 Cork is interesting, but where would he fit in now
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bstokesaint added 12:51 - Sep 17 Pecky, you took the words right out of my mouth. I think we miss Cork protecting the defence massively. He's a quality miss right now. I can't wait for him to return. Nick, you make a good constructive point about the full backs here. I'd much rather see points made like this then "he's cr&p" "he ain't good enough" "he's Championship at best", etc. I'm not saying these were your personal comments, but I've heard a lot of these the past few weeks from some fans. As you say some people do find it harder to admit that some of their favourites in the midfield are partly culpable for our recent defensive leakages. It's definitely a learning process for the whole team.

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hortonsaint added 12:58 - Sep 17 I agree that the full backs get little protection but Fox is poor positionally and can't cope with being run at. Yes he is getting exposed but he has no idea how to deal with the situation when it arises. which it inevitably will at times. Bridge used to get protection from Marsden but that didn't mean he was never exposed but he could deal with 1 v 1 situations. Yes Clyne struggled too but generally when run at he is far more convincing. Fox got away with it at times last year but the signs were there that he'd struggle at this level, just like the rest of the back 5 we had last season. Adequate for championship, now being exposed and really all needed replacing. The fact that AOC played on the right when he generally plays on the left for Arsenal tells you all you need to know about where Arsenal identified us to be weak.

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vectis added 13:15 - Sep 17 Slynch is spot on IMHO
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saintc added 13:19 - Sep 17 I would like to see him try lee and/or chaplow in these wider positions. Both can track especially the latter. NA needs to learn much quicker and earn his corn. The frailties at the back and def mid are abundantly clear. To make matters worse Kelvin instills a complete lack of confidence and wearing the scars of his last prem campaign as clear as the crest on his chest. The warning signs have been there yet have been ignored. This is the side give or take who twice could hold a lead against the skates who were relegated.

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saintc added 13:34 - Sep 17 I would like to see him try lee and/or chaplow in these wider positions. Both can track especially the latter. NA needs to learn much quicker and earn his corn. The frailties at the back and def mid are abundantly clear. To make matters worse Kelvin instills a complete lack of confidence and wearing the scars of his last prem campaign as clear as the crest on his chest. The warning signs have been there yet have been ignored. This is the side give or take who twice could hold a lead against the skates who were relegated.

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SaintNick added 13:40 - Sep 17 Lee played wide left at Stevenage and looked totally out of sorts in this position, he just isnt a wide player, Chaplow is similar, he is essentially a box to box central midfielder who due to having a decent engine can play wide, but in truth he isnt much at getting down and crossing the ball
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Pecky3 added 13:58 - Sep 17 Had been hoping for more defensive signings before the window closed but surely there could be an out-of-contract Goalkeeper and central defender who would bolster our thin squad in these areas. What about Craig Gordon for one. The ratings in today's press say it all. Kelvin got 3 in one I read! Still seems like a mainly Championship team having to play in the Prem to me. And...a thought (although not one which may be popular with many) - Redknapp revived Spurs from a similar position and he is free if things don't improve!

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ExiledSupporter added 19:10 - Sep 17 At the end of the day we've spent loads of money without for a moment addressing the real priority problems. Surely Ramirez will be a better central midfielder than AL (who like Nick, I also admire), so GR should be in the hole behind JL or JR where he will create chances and score. Putting him on the left wing or right wing will require him to track back to protect the full back which is manifestly a waste of apparently considerable talent. I'm completely with Singapore Saint on this one. But the downside is that we put AL back on the left side of midfield where we all know he doesn't defend the full back (whoever it is). It increasingly sounds to me that we need to play four full backs, two out and out defenders (selected from those others in the squad who admittedly lack pace and sufficient class) and two with pace (Clyne and Fox) who can attack and defend and become midfielders. Presumably we would keep Schneiderlein and Davis in the centre of the midfield (or perhaps Cork who has played full back for us when necessitated by injury). The trouble with that is that there is no place for Lallana, Puncheon or others like Chaplow. I can't see how Lee or Manyuka are going to ever start a game given that the need to bolster the defence ruins our attacking options. We are desperate to put KD to one side so it has to be Gazzaniga (or a quality loanee...easier said than done) and all this depends upon the uncertain hope that some combination of our three centre backs can be welded into a solid unit. Given all this I understand why Nick is so depressed...it's all a total shambles at the moment.

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simmo400 added 19:17 - Sep 17 Nick are you generally saying that NA has signed all the wrong players for this formation ? If so I agree with you. Back to 442 with the players we have me thinks
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ugliest added 20:52 - Sep 17 Saintnick, i believe this article is the first time in which you are not getting personal but writing about a general way of playing football and this time i must agree with that. Don't know why you are specially talking about the RB and LB, because the things you are writing should be said about every position. Football is teamwork and you win and lose as a team!
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GNSaint added 21:32 - Sep 17 I usually sit here applauding your comments and the effort you put into this site Nick but your spread here is pathetic, get a grip, you sound like a baby, a spoilt brat. Agreed things at the Emirates were bad, they were worse than bad, absolute rabbits in headlights and I for one couldn't believe my eyes. We are better than the performance on Saturday and now the dust and pain has settled from Saturday I believe it is time to reflect on how far we have come and re-group. FFS 3 out of the 4 teams we have just played are off to the Champions league this week, we knew we would be very unlikely to get a result from plaiyng them and truth is we got what we knew we would, and that is nowt. What worries me isn't the dropped points against city, utd or the arsenal but the dropped points against wigan as they are in our mini shit league alongside qpr, reading, norwich, villa and west ham. The season starts Saturday..

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DJI added 08:50 - Sep 18 Did any of you watch Monday Night Football? Gary Neville reviewed our performance and made some interesting observations. He said he thought, watching our defence, that the issue was partly psychological. By this he explained that he felt our defence panicked (Jos for the first goal). He went on to explain that they needed to (learn to) slow the game down in their minds, when the pace at them gets fast. This would avoid panic and inevitable mistakes. He also said that in the main, Saints setup and position themselves very well but a moments lack of concentration cost us some goals at Arsenal. He also stated that in some of the goals, our Midfield needed to give better cover to our defence. His analysis was very insightful from one of the best right backs in England over the past 15 years. Listening to what he said and how he showed his points using the SkyPad video, he made so much sense. For the first, the midfield needed to follow in and Clyne's body shape was wrong. For the third, Fonte/Clyne were too far away from Yoshida/Fox as the ball went to the right side. At that point he felt Adam should have pressed and Puncheon should have dropped into Clyne's position to mark Gibbs. What he said was precisely what Nick is saying here; our midfield needed to press the ball at times and drop into to cover spaces when the back four were stretched either side of the pitch. There is a defenders' rule that says that they should not be more than 15ft apart and on Saturday, Fonte was on several occasions. If one of our wingers had dropped back to cover (a back 5), then some of the goals might have been prevented. On this last point, this explains whey sometimes Fox appears to be out of position when his midfield partner should really be dropping deep to provide the cover when the ball is on our right side.

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