| Thatcher dead 12:56 - Apr 8 with 94608 views | six_foot_two |
Skynews are are saying Magaret Thatcher has died of a stroke |  | | |  |
| Thatcher dead on 14:55 - Apr 9 with 1901 views | Lambourn |
| Thatcher dead on 14:42 - Apr 9 by SonofNorfolt |
& do you think that Blair was given a choice?
Another thing that gets me is the council house fiasco.
The irony of the 'I'm alright Jack' culture, as highlighted by that serial simpleton Hollowayranger.
Council houses were for people that could not afford to buy, then they were virtually given them.
How was this fair?
There is or should never have been a 'right' to buy.
Otherwise me or anyone else should have been given the same rights. |
Thats a great point. Pay pennies rent and then buy in some cases a house worth £100,000 in those days in ealing area which today are worth half a million for next to nothing. Where were our 50k handouts and help to purchase our homes. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 14:58 - Apr 9 with 2238 views | TheBlob |
| Thatcher dead on 14:55 - Apr 9 by Lambourn |
Thats a great point. Pay pennies rent and then buy in some cases a house worth £100,000 in those days in ealing area which today are worth half a million for next to nothing. Where were our 50k handouts and help to purchase our homes. |
i think you'll find mortgage repayments at that time were more or less the same as rent. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:06 - Apr 9 with 2210 views | TheBlob |
| Thatcher dead on 14:58 - Apr 9 by TheBlob |
i think you'll find mortgage repayments at that time were more or less the same as rent. |
.....and anyway,if someone shows up with a deal and offers to shove cash up your nose,perfectly legit,no strings,you'd be a kunt to turn it down wouldn't you? | |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:08 - Apr 9 with 2209 views | SuffolkHoop |
People really do have to learn to agree to disagree when it comes to politics. No argument will ever win and no ideology will ever be proven correct. Having people talking about politics is a good thing when its about economics and policy - but it is in my opinion not a good thing to celebrate the death of an 87 year old woman who left office 23 years ago with a shameful lack of decency.
Do these people who are celebrating in the streets, and indeed causing trouble with the police not see that their actions cause their political view to become blurred and infinitely less credible in the eyes of the remainder of the population?
Whatever your views, showing respect is the key to earning it. It always has been and always will be. That is human nature. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:17 - Apr 9 with 2188 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 15:08 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
People really do have to learn to agree to disagree when it comes to politics. No argument will ever win and no ideology will ever be proven correct. Having people talking about politics is a good thing when its about economics and policy - but it is in my opinion not a good thing to celebrate the death of an 87 year old woman who left office 23 years ago with a shameful lack of decency.
Do these people who are celebrating in the streets, and indeed causing trouble with the police not see that their actions cause their political view to become blurred and infinitely less credible in the eyes of the remainder of the population?
Whatever your views, showing respect is the key to earning it. It always has been and always will be. That is human nature. |
Top post! |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:35 - Apr 9 with 2147 views | THEBUSH |
| Thatcher dead on 15:08 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
People really do have to learn to agree to disagree when it comes to politics. No argument will ever win and no ideology will ever be proven correct. Having people talking about politics is a good thing when its about economics and policy - but it is in my opinion not a good thing to celebrate the death of an 87 year old woman who left office 23 years ago with a shameful lack of decency.
Do these people who are celebrating in the streets, and indeed causing trouble with the police not see that their actions cause their political view to become blurred and infinitely less credible in the eyes of the remainder of the population?
Whatever your views, showing respect is the key to earning it. It always has been and always will be. That is human nature. |
I'd go along with most of that, apart from the bit, 'who left office 23 years ago with a shameful lack of decency.'
Thatcher used the full force of the 'constabulary' against her own people, when and whenever she wanted and in the end, her own party got rid of her, that says it all. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:35 - Apr 9 with 2142 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 15:08 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
People really do have to learn to agree to disagree when it comes to politics. No argument will ever win and no ideology will ever be proven correct. Having people talking about politics is a good thing when its about economics and policy - but it is in my opinion not a good thing to celebrate the death of an 87 year old woman who left office 23 years ago with a shameful lack of decency.
Do these people who are celebrating in the streets, and indeed causing trouble with the police not see that their actions cause their political view to become blurred and infinitely less credible in the eyes of the remainder of the population?
Whatever your views, showing respect is the key to earning it. It always has been and always will be. That is human nature. |
... and she deserves absolutely NO respect.
I for one cracked open a bottle of bubbly last night, and found "Ding Dong the witch is dead" on youtube to play to the kids.
News of the death has cheered me up no end. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:39 - Apr 9 with 2128 views | Gloucs_R |
| Thatcher dead on 15:35 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
... and she deserves absolutely NO respect.
I for one cracked open a bottle of bubbly last night, and found "Ding Dong the witch is dead" on youtube to play to the kids.
News of the death has cheered me up no end. |
My 6 figure salary I earn because of her legacy cheers me up no end too!!! | |
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| Thatcher dead on 15:42 - Apr 9 with 2113 views | SuffolkHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 15:35 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
... and she deserves absolutely NO respect.
I for one cracked open a bottle of bubbly last night, and found "Ding Dong the witch is dead" on youtube to play to the kids.
News of the death has cheered me up no end. |
Well its a free country, you can do that if you want. Just don't be surprised if not everyone thinks that a marvelous and intelligent reaction to a former-politician passing. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:42 - Apr 9 with 2111 views | real_loftus |
| Thatcher dead on 14:21 - Apr 9 by FDC |
I'm not talking about political manoeuvring, i'm talking about the neoliberal project of systemic restructuring of society, and increasing the flexibility of the work force.
To partly answer RealLoftus, I'm young enough to fall into the 'graduate without a future' camp ((c) Paul Mason), and old enough to comfortable qualify as a member of the precariat.
And Clive. There's no way I'm getting drawn into defending party politics, and I know Thatcher's your specialist subject and all, but - if you want to talk about state spending, take a look at this graph. Welfare and state expenditure on social needs is not the be-all-and-end-all of spending deficits. Look at where these peaks are - during Tory governments, and then at the point of the 2008 crash and bank bailouts. But it makes much more political sense to go on and on and on and on and on about welfare costs.
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On the basis you've swerved my question, I'm going to assume you weren't actually around at any point during any of her terms as Prime Minister?
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| Thatcher dead on 15:50 - Apr 9 with 2075 views | FDC |
| Thatcher dead on 15:42 - Apr 9 by real_loftus |
On the basis you've swerved my question, I'm going to assume you weren't actually around at any point during any of her terms as Prime Minister?
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That's incorrect |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:51 - Apr 9 with 2074 views | stowmarketrange |
She divided the nation in 1979 and she is still doing it.
You can't expect people whose lives were devasted by some of her vindictive policies to suddenly accept her death without some sort of pleasure and celebration.
I never prospered nor suffered under her reign,but lots did.
It was the usual rich mans policy of divide and rule.She gave more to the already haves,turned a few others into haves,but the have nots,could nots or would nots suffered,and are still suffering now.
As for the garbage spouted by some on here about the age of people celebrating,I'm too young to remember Hitler,Stalin and Ivan the terrible but it doesn't change history.In my eyes,Britain's last dictator has just died and I for one am glad.Now only Bliar to go till we can really party.
Thank you and goodnight. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:56 - Apr 9 with 2058 views | SuffolkHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 15:35 - Apr 9 by THEBUSH |
I'd go along with most of that, apart from the bit, 'who left office 23 years ago with a shameful lack of decency.'
Thatcher used the full force of the 'constabulary' against her own people, when and whenever she wanted and in the end, her own party got rid of her, that says it all. |
That is certainly a viewpoint and obviously your opinion, but it whether or not that is true doesn't detract in my opinion from the fact that celebrating in the streets and fighting with the police in the wake of her death 23 years after she left no10 is a demonstration of extremely bad taste and feeble character. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 15:57 - Apr 9 with 2054 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 15:42 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
Well its a free country, you can do that if you want. Just don't be surprised if not everyone thinks that a marvelous and intelligent reaction to a former-politician passing. |
I certainly don't expect everyone to agree, and isn't just a former politician passing is it? - How many other former politicians deaths have provoked spontaneous street parties in this country?
Thatcher was definitely something "special", and I, and it would seem a lot of others, think it appropriate to celebrate her death and give her a "special" send off. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:05 - Apr 9 with 2027 views | A40Bosh |
| Thatcher dead on 15:17 - Apr 9 by Gloucs_R |
Top post! |
Agree,
Having kept tabs on this thread since its inception yesterday lunchtime it is amazing that people who support the same London based football club can be poles apart in all other aspects of their political and social viewpoints.
At the end of the day, when I get to the point where I take a look at some of FDC's comments and in depth analysis and starts producing charts and I think, "whatever" I come to realise that I cant get excited about the death of Lady Margaret Hilda Thatcher.
I was 11 when she came to power and I remember more now about the pizz takings of her and her cronies on Spitting Image than the effects of her governance of the country and that is probably the point.
It's not about right or wrong, good or evil, it's about your perspective and whether what the Conservative Governments from 1979-1990 did for you and your family and your friends and communities.
I was 11 when she came in. I was being brought up in a middle class suburb of North West London by two Irish immigrant parents who arrived in 1960, worked hard with two jobs each, paid their taxes bought a flat in Fulham, then moved to a house in Wembley and then a bigger house in Ruislip in the mid 70's. I went to a pretty elitist Catholic boys school, went into a management programme at NatWest after A levels in 1986. Lady T never effected my life that I was consciously aware of. I have a feeling I probably voted for the Conservatives when I was 19 in June 1987, because Ruislip Northwood was a safe Tory seat and I never even considered that I was voting for Thatcher. She was a PM, the first female and probably had to be hard as nails to be taken very seriously, but that's as far as it goes for me, I cant get excited about her tenure one way or the other because I dont think it had any direct effect on my life, during or since.
I suspect that if I was the son of a 3rd generation Yorkshire coal miner, who had to "get on my bike" to come down to London in search of any job I could find then I might have a totally different perspective on Mrs T. But that is what it is at the end of the day, different perspectives, different opinions and no right and wrong regardless how vociferous and adamant some people posting are. |  |
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| Thatcher dead on 16:07 - Apr 9 with 2016 views | SuffolkHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 15:57 - Apr 9 by Cliff |
I certainly don't expect everyone to agree, and isn't just a former politician passing is it? - How many other former politicians deaths have provoked spontaneous street parties in this country?
Thatcher was definitely something "special", and I, and it would seem a lot of others, think it appropriate to celebrate her death and give her a "special" send off. |
No - you're wrong. It is just a former politician passing. Of course her policies were divisive, and for some they were really terrible.
But show some class man, she was 87 and very ill, were you worried she'd return to power? The way I see it, and no doubt you will see it differently; any moral high ground is lost by being cheap and crude enough to celebrate an old lady dying of a stroke - which is what has happened here.
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| Thatcher dead on 16:08 - Apr 9 with 2011 views | real_loftus |
| Thatcher dead on 15:50 - Apr 9 by FDC |
That's incorrect |
On the basis you continue to swerve it (unless you were born in the mid 80s which gives you a technicality), I'm pretty certain I'm right.
So I just wonder how you've managed to form such a strong opinion? What and where did you read to give you such a detailed opinion of her tenure? | |
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| Thatcher dead on 16:15 - Apr 9 with 1976 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 16:07 - Apr 9 by SuffolkHoop |
No - you're wrong. It is just a former politician passing. Of course her policies were divisive, and for some they were really terrible.
But show some class man, she was 87 and very ill, were you worried she'd return to power? The way I see it, and no doubt you will see it differently; any moral high ground is lost by being cheap and crude enough to celebrate an old lady dying of a stroke - which is what has happened here.
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No - you're wrong. As the parties on the streets up and down the country prove | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:20 - Apr 9 with 1964 views | FDC |
| Thatcher dead on 16:08 - Apr 9 by real_loftus |
On the basis you continue to swerve it (unless you were born in the mid 80s which gives you a technicality), I'm pretty certain I'm right.
So I just wonder how you've managed to form such a strong opinion? What and where did you read to give you such a detailed opinion of her tenure? |
Like I say, you're wrong. But even if I was a lot younger, I think your point is invalid for all kinds of reasons. For instance:
- Like I've said, the way I see it (and the reason I think her death has been greeted the way it has) she and Regan are symbolic of the dawning of a particular economic era, which we continue to live through. I thought PhilmyR's post somewhere above about individualism was good on this.
- Being alive during a period doesn't automatically give you a more nuanced understanding of that era. See all the "I'm alright Jack" posting on for examples of people with no interest in the lives of others and therefore probably not a great awareness of what that era meant beyond their specific experience (testament to the creation of neoliberal political subjectivities that was behind the right-to-buy scheme). | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:26 - Apr 9 with 1941 views | Cliff |
.... and your point is????
It is perfectly natural for me to express my views to my children, who won't necessarily take the same political stance as me - I don't share the same views as my father did.
Whether you Thatcher supporters like it or not, she divided opinion like no other politician in my lifetime. I don't recall having to tell my kids (who are now 16 and 18) why people were celebrating when Ted Heath died, because no one did. But Thatcher's death has been met with joy from a large part of the population, me included, and my letting my kids know how I feel and why I and others feel it is a perfectly natural thing for a father to do. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:28 - Apr 9 with 1932 views | real_loftus |
| Thatcher dead on 16:20 - Apr 9 by FDC |
Like I say, you're wrong. But even if I was a lot younger, I think your point is invalid for all kinds of reasons. For instance:
- Like I've said, the way I see it (and the reason I think her death has been greeted the way it has) she and Regan are symbolic of the dawning of a particular economic era, which we continue to live through. I thought PhilmyR's post somewhere above about individualism was good on this.
- Being alive during a period doesn't automatically give you a more nuanced understanding of that era. See all the "I'm alright Jack" posting on for examples of people with no interest in the lives of others and therefore probably not a great awareness of what that era meant beyond their specific experience (testament to the creation of neoliberal political subjectivities that was behind the right-to-buy scheme). |
I think you doth protest too much! ;)
In this instance I think my point is valid. I experienced the rolling power cuts, the rubbish piled on the streets, the bodies in the crematoriums, pre-Thatcher. So I have a valid opinion on what happened before she came to power. Likewise, someone like DaiHoop experienced life in South Wales during the miner's strike, with families starving and stolen sheep being butchered in the back rooms of village pubs to make sure everyone had food. These opinions and others like them, I now have respect for because they're real.
What I dont have any time for, is faux-intelligentsia, spouting rhetoric that they've read in some student pamphlet, based on nothing more than hearsay and lies. Being there and experiencing it, on this occasion, does give me and others a more detailed and real understanding.
Just saying..... | |
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| Thatcher dead on 16:34 - Apr 9 with 1917 views | Cliff |
| Thatcher dead on 16:28 - Apr 9 by real_loftus |
I think you doth protest too much! ;)
In this instance I think my point is valid. I experienced the rolling power cuts, the rubbish piled on the streets, the bodies in the crematoriums, pre-Thatcher. So I have a valid opinion on what happened before she came to power. Likewise, someone like DaiHoop experienced life in South Wales during the miner's strike, with families starving and stolen sheep being butchered in the back rooms of village pubs to make sure everyone had food. These opinions and others like them, I now have respect for because they're real.
What I dont have any time for, is faux-intelligentsia, spouting rhetoric that they've read in some student pamphlet, based on nothing more than hearsay and lies. Being there and experiencing it, on this occasion, does give me and others a more detailed and real understanding.
Just saying..... |
Not a history student I take it then!
Still the good news is it's only a few more years to go and there'll be no one alive who can remember what Stalin or Hitler were really like, and we can stop assuming they were evil as there's no one left to tell us. Happy days. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:42 - Apr 9 with 1898 views | QPR_John |
Reading all the posts on this thread has made me think. Like many on the message board I have stood at Loftus Road for a minutes silence. Why, what am I showing, in all cases I did not know the person involved so why should I show any respect, but it just feels like the right thing to do. I suppose in reality I am showing respect to those people still alive who have been personnaly moved by the death or maybe I simply followed the crowd. Clearly there are so many people, Rangers supporters, who are not constrained in this way and feel the right not to respect a persons death so I wonder have they ever felt the need to disrupt the minutes silence. Maybe those same people in the future may want to show respect and stand silent for a minute but will they then understand the right for others disrupt that minutes silence. Has the concept of a minutes silence now been destroyed after all if you accept the right to disrespect a person's death whom you do not like how can you criticise somebody being disrespectful to somebody you might wish to honour. |  | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:46 - Apr 9 with 1881 views | SuffolkHoop |
| Thatcher dead on 16:42 - Apr 9 by QPR_John |
Reading all the posts on this thread has made me think. Like many on the message board I have stood at Loftus Road for a minutes silence. Why, what am I showing, in all cases I did not know the person involved so why should I show any respect, but it just feels like the right thing to do. I suppose in reality I am showing respect to those people still alive who have been personnaly moved by the death or maybe I simply followed the crowd. Clearly there are so many people, Rangers supporters, who are not constrained in this way and feel the right not to respect a persons death so I wonder have they ever felt the need to disrupt the minutes silence. Maybe those same people in the future may want to show respect and stand silent for a minute but will they then understand the right for others disrupt that minutes silence. Has the concept of a minutes silence now been destroyed after all if you accept the right to disrespect a person's death whom you do not like how can you criticise somebody being disrespectful to somebody you might wish to honour. |
Completely agree. Regardless of politics, disrespecting someones death in the way that many are trumpeting is such a thick headed and indecent thing to do. I would genuinely have expected better. | | | |
| Thatcher dead on 16:48 - Apr 9 with 2042 views | FDC |
| Thatcher dead on 16:28 - Apr 9 by real_loftus |
I think you doth protest too much! ;)
In this instance I think my point is valid. I experienced the rolling power cuts, the rubbish piled on the streets, the bodies in the crematoriums, pre-Thatcher. So I have a valid opinion on what happened before she came to power. Likewise, someone like DaiHoop experienced life in South Wales during the miner's strike, with families starving and stolen sheep being butchered in the back rooms of village pubs to make sure everyone had food. These opinions and others like them, I now have respect for because they're real.
What I dont have any time for, is faux-intelligentsia, spouting rhetoric that they've read in some student pamphlet, based on nothing more than hearsay and lies. Being there and experiencing it, on this occasion, does give me and others a more detailed and real understanding.
Just saying..... |
I get your point and there's something to be said for what you're saying... but shortage of affordable housing, growth driven by credit, consequences of the economic crisis being pushed onto those least able to afford it - these are all things that are happening now, not in the 80s, but they have their roots back then imo.
And anyway, I'm in my 30s, married, and up to my eyeballs in debt that keeps me awake at night - so your characterisation of me is slightly wrong. (I'll take faux-intelligensia on the chin though ;-) )
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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